Hitting Mechanics {w/ video}

[RIstar]

I'm linear now BUT want to turn rotational like right away.

Normal speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XcPe7EmV5I

SLow motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcBUhhETUL8

Please help me change

[Chris O'Leary]

SLow motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcBUhhETUL8

Please help me change

Based on the slow motion clip I see...

1. A pretty standard swing. Not a particularly linear one.

2. TONS of bat drag. See 12 seconds into the slow motion clip. Your back elbow is well ahead of your hands and back shoulder. That explains your unhappiness with your swing but your occasional power.

3. Decent hip rotation and lower body action.

4. Kind of a strange, Craig Counsell set-up. Your hands (and elbows) are quite high. Compare your set-up to this photo of Pujols...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Images/Hitters/AlbertPujols/AlbertPujols_101.jpg

Are you a golfer? This is a pretty golf-y baseball swing.

[RIstar]

Not a golfer lol But I can drive the ball to about 250 to almost 300 YARDS I went 1once to the driving range in last year.

Also what do you think I need to do to become more rotational and also limit the bat drag?

[Go Cardinals]

Not a golfer lol But I can drive the ball to about 250 to almost 300 feet I went 1once to the driving range in last year.

Also what do you think I need to do to become more rotational and also limit the bat drag?

I was once asking the same quetion... this might help

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=68030

I've re-read this a few times... its kind of embarrasing how little I knew then (although abviiously I still don't know it all now).

The swings aren't there anymore, but some of this might help. They were similar, just more rotational.

[Chris O'Leary]

Not a golfer lol But I can drive the ball to about 250 to almost 300 feet I went 1once to the driving range in last year.

Also what do you think I need to do to become more rotational and also limit the bat drag?

Focus on connection; on rotating your hands with your back shoulder.

Check out the Pete Rose video I posted in another thread and notice how he maintains this relationship (hands turn with his shoulders) throughout his swing rather than letting his hands get behind the rotation of his shoulders.

[Go Cardinals]

Focus on connection; on rotating your hands with your back shoulder.

Check out the Pete Rose video I posted in another thread and notice how he maintains this relationship (hands turn with his shoulders) throughout his swing rather than letting his hands get behind the rotation of his shoulders.

I just about to say this... read chris's site. Its great for people changing from linear to rotational. You have more postural issues... am I doing this right chris?

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/RethinkingHitting/Essays/RotationalHitting.html

[RIstar]

Chris when you say rotating your hands with your back shoulder you mean like pulling the shoulder back at the same time you swing?

[Go Cardinals]

See link from encinatas:


Here's some stuff on bat drag from straightgrain:


Drill's comments:
"You remind me of about 60% of the young people who arm bars and loses power by not keeping the angle. But you inhance the arm bar by holding your hands high so you can have a longer and slower swing. By holding your hand high you are lossing the angle before you even start and than you have to dive bomb the ball and hit it at the exact mil second to drive the ball or pop it up. Other than that you have a great swing."


Tom Guerry on Straightgrain:
Straightgrain-

"You are making some very good observations about how the feel and reality of the high level swing relate. For example:

1- Hips and hands and hips lead hands can both make sense/are not incompatible/can be reconciled, especially when teaching/learning in person. Harder to describe in words, even looking at video.

In ahigh level swing you get yourself into a type of total body motion where the hands and hips synch their action. When the hands torwue the handle of the bat as it uncocks, the body starts to turn open lead by the front leg first then the hips then the back leg. As the bat cntinues uncocking by handle torque, the hand stay back with the shoulders and the bdy loads by coiling the torso or "winding the rubber band".

So the hips and hand motions are carefully synched and in my opinion, controlled by the hands, but the hips are also leading the hands becasue the rubberbandis winding by keeping the upper body back as the lower body turns open.

Prior to staying back, the whole body was turned back without coiling much (inward turn) and the front shoulder was lowered.

This means when you coil, the upper body/hands are still well back so you have more read time.

The swing is launched at some point after the coil/rubberbandwinding is underway, and when it is, the shoulders untilt/front shoulder tilts up some synched with the front heel (toe already touching) dropping as weight shifts the front foot. This creates a last quick coil that nloads quickly and accurately with a stretch and fire type feel that rapidly accelerates the bat that is already turning between the hand/uncocking.

2 - you swing down and want a slight up swing.

As you say these are 2 different aspects of the swing.

The hands must torque the bat to uncck it then accelerate it in a way that RESISTS turning at the same time in the same plane as the hips. The hips turn level. To resist, the bat must turn ina more downward plane.

If you do not have this "swing down" feel, you will nt get the necessary stretch and fire type loading/coil of the torso between the shoulders and hips or be able to control the direction that this unloads /fires in.

What this down swing does, resisting the opening of the lower body is create a better load/coil f the torso, accentuated after the GO decisin by the synched shoulder tilt and weight shift to front foot.

Aso the hands are turning the bat, but staying back with the shoulders, flex/angle staying in back arm, back arm staying slotted opposite seam of jersey.

This swing down/shoulder tilt finishes the load/coil of the torso to which you want to connect the bathead, then drive the bathead to contact without letting the hands get away from the body 9hands stay in rather thanextending/disconnecting from being powered by uncoiling body).

SO then IF you have gotten a well timed and directed body COIL (hips leading/hands staying in/back/matching swing to pitch) the coil will now turn the front shoulder and bat all the way to contact with a slight upsloping swing path as Williams described it.

The slightly upsloping swing AND the type swing where the top hand wrist "remains unbroken"/does not break until contact is a sign of a swing powerd efficiently by uncoiling of the body (creating and staying connected to "body torque" until contact).

This is how i see reconciling the feel and reality that are described by hips and hands, hands and hips, hips lead hands, swing down and your swing should be a slight upslope.

All makes sense to me."


Hope that all helps...

[BoardMember]

The swing I see here cannot possibly be fixed through advise on a forum. You need live instruction.

Ask for hitting lessons for Xmas......

I'm linear now BUT want to turn rotational like right away.

Normal speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XcPe7EmV5I

SLow motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcBUhhETUL8

Please help me change

[Go Cardinals]

The swing I see here cannot possibly be fixed through advise on a forum. You need live instruction.

Ask for hitting lessons for Xmas......

Repeat of my old thread! He can still learn alot from the internet, although live lessons wouldn't hurt!

What I've learned:
1- live lessons best
2- forums
3- no one... or dad coaching.

Moral, forum is better than nothing! IMO

[Lady_Knights]

A couple things I see.....

1. Bend at the waist, then soften the knees, will keep you balanced. Your legs/knees are to rigid in your stance

2. When you stride forward, you should slightly bring your hands back, if your hands are more forward, or walk away from your hands if they are already back. You are not creating, what many refer to as "lead arm extension."

3. Your hands are starting too high, they should be at the top of your back shoulder. Your hands should start to move linear, as your rear elbow is moving into the slot, "This is the biggest cause of your bat lag, and the problem, when thinking there is no linear hand movement before rotation"

[jima]

Repeat of my old thread! He can still learn alot from the internet, although live lessons wouldn't hurt!

What I've learned:
1- live lessons best
2- forums
3- no one... or dad coaching.

Moral, forum is better than nothing! IMO

I agree with BoardMember - it takes months and thousands of swings to make a swing change...it really can't be done w/out a good set of eyes (teacher). Due to different points of view, the forum can actually do you more harm than good if you try to utilize it as a swing change mechanism...small tweaks, yes. With all due respect to you GoC...GoC, you had a nice natural swing to begin with, but I don't think you have taken whatever changes you made into competition...if you start off ofer ten, you may find yourself going back to your old swing...that's when a teacher is really invaluable.

[Chris O'Leary]

You have more postural issues... am I doing this right chris?

Yes, I see those too.

RIStar, you are very stiff-legged. This is very obvious when your front foot lands. You need more flex in your knees. Again, in terms of posture and set-up, look at the Pujols picture. How he's kind of sitting back with his knees bent. Maybe don't do it as much as he does, but do it more than you are now.

Also, at 11 seconds you can see that you bend too far forward at the waist (with your knees locked).

[jima]

BoardMember - I believe you have a rather eclectic view of hitting...do you have one mlb player whose form you like? Did you say something about having a Corona?

[Go Cardinals]

watch...........

[Go Cardinals]

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1073883

[Go Cardinals]

for your bat need at perfect game event...
http://www.maxbats.com/

[Go Cardinals]

Forum need...

http://www.wetpaint.com/page/Tell-Me-More

[RIstar]

thank you for the link

[Chris O'Leary]

Focus on connection; on rotating your hands with your back shoulder.

Check out the Pete Rose video I posted in another thread and notice how he maintains this relationship (hands turn with his shoulders) throughout his swing rather than letting his hands get behind the rotation of his shoulders.

Here's a further marked-up version of the Pete Rose overhead clip that illustrates what I'm talking about better.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting_PeteRose_Overhead_RH_Annotated_001.g if

I've never been happy with concept of the box because I've never been able to see it consistently. However, what I do think I see consistently in high-level swings is something I call "The Triangle".

The Triangle is a right triangle that is formed by linking together the hitter's hands and shoulders. I have laid The Triangle over the Pete Rose clip above. Notice how as his shoulders turn he maintains the triangle (both leg lengths and angles) until a couple of frames before the point of contact. This means that his hands are turning with his shoulders rather than dragging behind them.

In terms of teaching this, I can see why many people at the ML level focus on the hands. It may be an easier way of maintaining The Triangle.

If you focus too much on the shoulders or back elbow, the hands can get lost in the shuffle and you can end up with a long, draggy swing. However, if you focus on the hands, they will tend to maintain their proper position relative to the back shoulder and elbow.

P.S. I created a separate thread for discussions of the concept of The Triangle.

[Go Cardinals]

your question on bat dag vs. seperation...

[Go Cardinals]

here.... http://www.hittingillustrated.com/Library.htm
compare w/ ap

[Go Cardinals]

I am just posting stuff that he asked me for. I could be wrong in what I am saying... please correct if I am wrong.

[Go Cardinals]

I agree with BoardMember - it takes months and thousands of swings to make a swing change...it really can't be done w/out a good set of eyes (teacher). Due to different points of view, the forum can actually do you more harm than good if you try to utilize it as a swing change mechanism...small tweaks, yes. With all due respect to you GoC...GoC, you had a nice natural swing to begin with, but I don't think you have taken whatever changes you made into competition...if you start off ofer ten, you may find yourself going back to your old swing...that's when a teacher is really invaluable.

Funny you say this... that video on the other thread (side by side w/ ap) was my natural swing before I came to this site (pretty much)... I tried to do a lot of stuff, but as you said it didn't work. So now its small adjustments. I repeat that is my natural swing. I have hit the best I have ever done in my life with that swing, so don't say it isn't my "natural" swing when you have never seen me in a game!

[Drill]

A couple things I see.....

1. Bend at the waist, then soften the knees, will keep you balanced. Your legs/knees are to rigid in your stance

2. When you stride forward, you should slightly bring your hands back, if your hands are more forward, or walk away from your hands if they are already back. You are not creating, what many refer to as "lead arm extension."

3. Your hands are starting too high, they should be at the top of your back shoulder. Your hands should start to move linear, as your rear elbow is moving into the slot, "This is the biggest cause of your bat lag, and the problem, when thinking there is no linear hand movement before rotation"

Don't know who you are but after reading just a few of your post, I am glad you are here with your knowlege base.

drill


Ps ---- I really like that cooler with the wheels on it. Let me know if your are selling it on ebay RIstar

[jima]

Funny you say this... that video on the other thread (side by side w/ ap) was my natural swing before I came to this site (pretty much)... I tried to do a lot of stuff, but as you said it didn't work. So now its small adjustments. I repeat that is my natural swing. I have hit the best I have ever done in my life with that swing, so don't say it isn't my "natural" swing when you have never seen me in a game!

I'm not sure you understood me. If that is your natural swing, fine. I was under the impression that you were in the process of changing from linear to rotational. Then I saw alot of threads where you were referring to Lau, etc. Whatever. Maybe I read too much between the lines.

[Go Cardinals]

I'm not sure you understood me. If that is your natural swing, fine. I was under the impression that you were in the process of changing from linear to rotational. Then I saw alot of threads where you were referring to Lau, etc. Whatever. Maybe I read too much between the lines.

Ok, yeah we both were off. I think I misunderstood you too. Ok, I'll settle it...
I came here from Chris O'leary's site. In that swing (compar swing) I am using a cue that I found online about 2 weeks after I first started posting. I watched the candrea hitting... and someone told me to use it for baseball, but as a summerine pitcher. Ever since that day (it was like 3 in the morning, I couldn't sleep that night) I tore it up. I hit a couple bombs a day during all-stars and the end of the season. After that, I thought my swing was bad and I was dragging or something (more paranoid of this) so I tried to simplify it and change it. I went from chris o'leary, to straightgrain, to charlie lau, and now I am at hittingillustrated and I use yeagers stuff. Really now, since I've learned more than I've ever needed to to be a succesful as a pro, I am just trying to understand my body and what will work best with it. I like the second engine and tip and rip things... and I like some yeager and lau. What I find amazing about all of this info that I learn, I already knew parts it before I even learned what rotation hitting was. I naturally would come up with cues for myself. Now its just a way to check If I'm doing it right. For example; I always noticed in myself that your hands needed to get a running start. My old little coaches would want me w/ dead hands. However, I always knew that they were wrong... so I never listened to them! I honestly used to think that I swung down on the ball, but when I go back and replay the swing in my mind (I had to of been in a total zone to do this) I would realize that I was applying a slight uppercut. To me, almost every hitting system is the same thing. I have noticed naturally (before my rotational enlightenment) about semantics and how alot of things were argued about, but were actually similar.
Anyway, now you know a general history about my developement through BBF and on the forums. I don't think that people know that some of this stuff that was "part of a system", I've already figured it out/ realized... relative to my body.

Here I am now, and my swing looks really good. Today it looked better than normal. I looked at the film, and I accidentally thought that I was HG. On of my POC frames looked like HG today lol.

Anyway JIMA, I hope you understand what I'm saying. I do things that I just can't put into words. IMO, that is why i think there can be frustration towards me on this site,

Happy Hollidays,

Connor

[jima]

Connor, you are 14 and trying to get better...I've got a 14yo who I'm trying to help...we are both trying for the same thing. Happy Holidays to you also. jim

[wogdoggy]

Ok, yeah we both were off. I think I misunderstood you too. Ok, I'll settle it...
I came here from Chris O'leary's site. In that swing (compar swing) I am using a cue that I found online about 2 weeks after I first started posting. I watched the candrea hitting... and someone told me to use it for baseball, but as a summerine pitcher. Ever since that day (it was like 3 in the morning, I couldn't sleep that night) I tore it up. I hit a couple bombs a day during all-stars and the end of the season. After that, I thought my swing was bad and I was dragging or something (more paranoid of this) so I tried to simplify it and change it. I went from chris o'leary, to straightgrain, to charlie lau, and now I am at hittingillustrated and I use yeagers stuff. Really now, since I've learned more than I've ever needed to to be a succesful as a pro, I am just trying to understand my body and what will work best with it. I like the second engine and tip and rip things... and I like some yeager and lau. What I find amazing about all of this info that I learn, I already knew parts it before I even learned what rotation hitting was. I naturally would come up with cues for myself. Now its just a way to check If I'm doing it right. For example; I always noticed in myself that your hands needed to get a running start. My old little coaches would want me w/ dead hands. However, I always knew that they were wrong... so I never listened to them! I honestly used to think that I swung down on the ball, but when I go back and replay the swing in my mind (I had to of been in a total zone to do this) I would realize that I was applying a slight uppercut. To me, almost every hitting system is the same thing. I have noticed naturally (before my rotational enlightenment) about semantics and how alot of things were argued about, but were actually similar.
Anyway, now you know a general history about my developement through BBF and on the forums. I don't think that people know that some of this stuff that was "part of a system", I've already figured it out/ realized... relative to my body.

Here I am now, and my swing looks really good. Today it looked better than normal. I looked at the film, and I accidentally thought that I was HG. On of my POC frames looked like HG today lol.

Anyway JIMA, I hope you understand what I'm saying. I do things that I just can't put into words. IMO, that is why i think there can be frustration towards me on this site,

Happy Hollidays,

Connor

My old little coaches would want me w/ dead hands. However, I always knew that they were wrong... so I never listened to them!

all coaching is good..because now you can dismiss that idea..read orel hershiesers book