Arm Action

[RIstar]

Does this arm action look ok?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdrGqRXf3Cw

Tell me how it needs to improve please I have to get ready for the season quickly.


Chris O Leary please help me out on this one.

[Chris O'Leary]

Does this arm action look ok?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdrGqRXf3Cw

Tell me how it needs to improve please I have to get ready for the season quickly.

Chris O Leary please help me out on this one.

It's better, but your PAS elbow is still too high, which is causing your arm to be a little late.

Also, you're frustrating me.

You need to pick an analyst to listen to and stick with him.

As I suspected, DM59 (over on letstalkpitching.com) and I are giving you contradictory advice. I think your elbow's too high. He thinks it's too low (and that you need to break your hands with your elbows).

It can't be both.

I can back up my statements. Can DM?

How high are the PAS elbows of these great pitchers? Not very IMO.

Greg Maddux...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Videos/Video_Pitching_GregMaddux_3B_ArmAction_001.gif

Randy Johnson...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Videos/Video_Pitching_RandyJohnson_Catcher_SuperSlowMotio n_002.gif

The whole high elbow thing is based on misconceptions and poor analysis. The fact that it persists on LTP.com is one reason I don't visit there any more.

[wogdoggy]

Does this arm action look ok?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdrGqRXf3Cw

Tell me how it needs to improve please I have to get ready for the season quickly.


Chris O Leary please help me out on this one.



im sure chris will like the fact that your shoulders stay level,,unlike priors..
what do you mean arm action? thats your natural arm slot...you dont want to change that..

one thing that helps my little guy put a little more pep on the ball is..I tell him to think hes whipping his rolled up sock at his brother,,that usually gets his arm motivated..:laugh

[wogdoggy]

chris i dont see his elbow geeting above his shoulder till late in the delivery just as randy johnsons shot shows..the shot of the kid is hard to see just how high he gets it but it doesnt seem to get over his shoulder????

[Chris O'Leary]

chris i dont see his elbow geeting above his shoulder till late in the delivery just as randy johnsons shot shows..the shot of the kid is hard to see just how high he gets it but it doesnt seem to get over his shoulder????

This is admittedly not the best angle.

However, check out 13 seconds in.

Also, rather than breaking his hands with his PAS hand, he appears to be trying to break his hands with his elbows.

Finally, I just stumbled across questionable comments by DM59 over at LTP.com...

The elbow is coming up better. 2 things to still improve upon. It comes back down a bit as you start to turn. The old, ingrained habit of having that elbow low is not easy to break. This is a start though. It's as much a "mental cue" issue as anything else. Try to think of throwing the ball with a bit of a "downward" feel to it. Focus on the path the elbow takes, back, up to shoulder height, then around at that same height to throw...

...I like the way the upper arm comes up on the way back but keep at it with the intent of getting it to shoulder height and keeping it there to release.

The clips I posted show that two of the best pitchers in the world DO NOT get the elbow up to shoulder height and then keep it there.

[RIstar]

SO chris you think I should do what feels comfortable meaning a low elbow then pick it up a little into release point?

[Chris O'Leary]

SO chris you think I should do what feels comfortable meaning a low elbow...

Yes.


...then pick it up a little into release point?

You don't have to pick up your elbow.

If you're throwing hard enough, the centrifugal force generated by the rotation of your shoulders will pick your elbow up so that it's level with your shoulders at the release point.

That's what happens in the Randy Johnson clip above.

[RIstar]

So it's ok for my elbow to rotate elbow my shoulder all the way through till I go to extend when it picks up to be a little above shoulder height?

[Chris O'Leary]

So it's ok for my elbow to rotate below my shoulder all the way through till I go to extend...

Yes.


...when it picks up to be a little above shoulder height?

You elbow won't be ABOVE shoulder height. It will be AT shoulder height. It may look above because your shoulders are tilted.

Also, you don't have to worry about this. It happens automatically.

[RIstar]

ok Chris now that we got the others things out of the way lets talk about some other parts of my motion people don't like.

1st reverse rotation- People don't like that I do this {should it stay or should it go} I like to turn my back all the way to the hitter If I can

DO you think it will be ok from past videos you have seen to turn the back all the way to the hitter like tim lincecum or other pitchers?

2nd {sweeping the leg around} people don't like that I sweep the leg around into landing and that I throw a little up hill when I throw


what you think I think I might follow you more lol you make sence to me pretty well and also I think everyone else is messing my mechanics up alot.

[Deemax]

1st reverse rotation- People don't like that I do this {should it stay or should it go} I like to turn my back all the way to the hitter If I can

DO you think it will be ok from past videos you have seen to turn the back all the way to the hitter like tim lincecum or other pitchers?

2nd {sweeping the leg around} people don't like that I sweep the leg around into landing and that I throw a little up hill when I throw


Reverse rotation and sweeping the leg are not faults. They can be advantageous. IMO you have a unique powerful delivery that I would like to see more of in young pitchers.

[Chris O'Leary]

1st reverse rotation- People don't like that I do this {should it stay or should it go} I like to turn my back all the way to the hitter If I can

I think this causes more problems than it fixes (e.g. losing sight of the target and landing closed).

I would pretty much get rid of it. Just reverse-rotate so that your shoulders point at where a RH batter would stand.

That's what Greg Maddux, Nolan Ryan, and Roger Clemens do.


DO you think it will be ok from past videos you have seen to turn the back all the way to the hitter like tim lincecum or other pitchers?

See above.


2nd {sweeping the leg around} people don't like that I sweep the leg around into landing and that I throw a little up hill when I throw

I don't think sweeping the leg around is bad.

You do seem to land fairly closed and throw back across your body. I would try to land with the toe pointed more at the target.

[RIstar]

I understand landing a little closed and loosing sight of the target.

1st I don't loose sight of the target might look like that but I do see what I'm throwing at fine

2nd I'm not that powerfull I don't think without turnning the back for some reason

3rd It seems like turnning the back allows me to come hard down the mound with alot of energy then lifting the leg and striding normally.


The only thing I think I would have to work on is seeing the target a little better but I see it pretty much all the way through now. Also I could work on coming back more in line to the home and 2nd base bag so I don't throw aross the body.

[TL_Dad]

I understand landing a little closed and loosing sight of the target.

1st I don't loose sight of the target might look like that but I do see what I'm throwing at fine

2nd I'm not that powerfull I don't think without turnning the back for some reason

3rd It seems like turnning the back allows me to come hard down the mound with alot of energy then lifting the leg and striding normally.


The only thing I think I would have to work on is seeing the target a little better but I see it pretty much all the way through now. Also I could work on coming back more in line to the home and 2nd base bag so I don't throw aross the body.

What are your mechanics like when you pitch from the stretch?

[RIstar]

I do one of 2 things Slide step which I get same amount of MPH or also I will just turn quicker or not far as back. It's all about the speed at which you do it and I do it fast so it's not a problem.


Also when I turn the back it's all about deception to the batter.

Might look weird when turning the back and more complicated but to me it's more simple and easier to repeat then not doing it at all.

Also deception is the name of my game. I throw a straight 4-seam and a sinker that has a good amount of movement. Also I throw my Change-up ALOT to every batter and it has the same arm speed so it really works when turnning the back to the hitter so they think fastball is coming and it's a change-up. Also I have a good curve-ball that becomes better when I turn the back because they think the hard fastball is coming because i go hard down the mound.

[Deemax]

Might look weird when turning the back and more complicated but to me it's more simple and easier to repeat then not doing it at all.



Then do NOT change it. Being able to repeat your delivery is key. If you can repeat a delivery that has deception and power you are definetly on the right track.

[RIstar]

Yes I think everyone wants every pitcher to be the cookie cutter roger clemens lift up, down and out or Randy johnson Lift and drive at the same time. When the most important q's that is never asked "Do they hit you hard or do you get them out"

Everyone has there own style and I like to turn the back it adds the deception that hitters do not like when facing a pitcher not being able to see what is coming to them.

I do have a showcase on the 27th this month I plan to turn my back I just hope the people there will understand everyone has there own style.