How important is tilt on low pitches?

[Hard Liner]

I ask because Ted Williams doesn't appear to recommend it here. Below is an excerpt from page 68 of Science of Hitting and the relevant graphic.

"Paul Waner used to say you uppercut a low pitch, and that can be effective, but I don't recommend it. I'd say to go down a little, don't stay quite as high, bend your knees down toward the pitch. That way your swing will stay more uniform. The tendency on a low ball is to hit it on the ground. If you bend your knees and go down with the pitch you'll be able to get under it enough to compensate. Don't misunderstand me—I'm not saying you don't swing up on a low ball (again, and if I sound obsessed with the idea, it is because I am; I advocate the up swing). I'm saying that to get the maximum hitting surface of the bat through the longest possible impact zone you are better off bending your knees and dropping down. The angle of the bat at impact is much sharper when you're up high trying to uppercut. The plane of the swing intersects the downward flight of the ball over a shortened area. You want the opposite."

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/gronkle/baseball/ScienceofHittinggraphicP67Custom2.jpg

[Erik]

I ask because Ted Williams doesn't appear to recommend it here. Below is an excerpt from page 68 of Science of Hitting and the relevant graphic.

"Paul Waner used to say you uppercut a low pitch, and that can be effective, but I don't recommend it. I'd say to go down a little, don't stay quite as high, bend your knees down toward the pitch. That way your swing will stay more uniform. The tendency on a low ball is to hit it on the ground. If you bend your knees and go down with the pitch you'll be able to get under it enough to compensate. Don't misunderstand me—I'm not saying you don't swing up on a low ball (again, and if I sound obsessed with the idea, it is because I am; I advocate the up swing). I'm saying that to get the maximum hitting surface of the bat through the longest possible impact zone you are better off bending your knees and dropping down. The angle of the bat at impact is much sharper when you're up high trying to uppercut. The plane of the swing intersects the downward flight of the ball over a shortened area. You want the opposite."

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/gronkle/baseball/ScienceofHittinggraphicP67Custom2.jpg



Thanks for posting this. This has a lot of value and the picture is very interesting.


EL,

[Chris O'Leary]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/gronkle/baseball/ScienceofHittinggraphicP67Custom2.jpg

I think that this is one thing that Ted Williams, and by extension Mike Epstein (e.g. the back leg acts as a hinge), gets mostly wrong.

While you DO see this kind of adjustment in some hitters (e.g. I saw it in Dustin Pedroia during the WS) you don't see it in most swings. I have looked at a lot of clips of Pujols and it seems that he adjusts primarily by tilting rather than by hinging the back knee.

Low pitch HR...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Images/Hitters/AlbertPujols/AlbertPujols_2006_HomeRun_021.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Images/Hitters/AlbertPujols/AlbertPujols_2006_HomeRun_002.jpg

High pitch HR...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Images/Hitters/AlbertPujols/AlbertPujols_2006_HomeRun_017.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Images/Hitters/AlbertPujols/AlbertPujols_2006_HomeRun_018.jpg

[Hard Liner]

I think that this is one thing that Ted Williams, and by extension Mike Epstein (e.g. the back leg acts as a hinge), gets mostly wrong.

While you DO see this kind of adjustment in some hitters (e.g. I saw it in Dustin Pedroia during the WS) you don't see it in most swings.

Wrong is a relative term, of course. I hear Williams wasn't a bad hitter. From what I've seen, bending the knees for low pitches was pretty typical of hitters around Williams' era and earlier which goes to the larger question of, are most of todays hitters similar to each other due purely to advances and evolutionary forces or is there perhaps a significant element of imitation due to widespread, effortless access and exposure to video and pictures? That may seem a bit off tangent to this thread, but I can't think about one without thinking about the other.

[FiveFrameSwing]

I ask because Ted Williams doesn't appear to recommend it here. Below is an excerpt from page 68 of Science of Hitting and the relevant graphic.

"Paul Waner used to say you uppercut a low pitch, and that can be effective, but I don't recommend it. I'd say to go down a little, don't stay quite as high, bend your knees down toward the pitch. That way your swing will stay more uniform. The tendency on a low ball is to hit it on the ground. If you bend your knees and go down with the pitch you'll be able to get under it enough to compensate. Don't misunderstand me—I'm not saying you don't swing up on a low ball (again, and if I sound obsessed with the idea, it is because I am; I advocate the up swing). I'm saying that to get the maximum hitting surface of the bat through the longest possible impact zone you are better off bending your knees and dropping down. The angle of the bat at impact is much sharper when you're up high trying to uppercut. The plane of the swing intersects the downward flight of the ball over a shortened area. You want the opposite."

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/gronkle/baseball/ScienceofHittinggraphicP67Custom2.jpg


The above photo does not pass The Hanson Principle ...
“Always compare what anybody tells you about the swing to slow motion clips of the best hitters in the world.”

p.s.
In the above photo the hitter is giving up one of his greatest sources of force generation.

[Hard Liner]

“Always compare what anybody tells you about the swing to slow motion clips of the best hitters in the world.”


Can't possibly argue with that.

Lau has his list of the 10 absolutes of hitting. The above should top any list of absolutes of swing analysis.

[Slapper23]

What Ted is saying about the low pitch is true in a general sense - more sit, more tilt. I agree the picture is somewhat puzzling, although the top pic of Pujols that Chris posted does come close to the Williams illustration, but not exactly, especially when you consider Albert is not yet at contact.

It would be nice to have a clip or still of Williams hitting the low pitch. I'm betting it would not look identical to the illustration, with the lead knee bent near 90 degress at contact. Sometimes artistic license can skew the truth. :)

Mike

[handyman11]

I think there would be clips of hitters going down low to get pitches , ( I think Giambi has done this before ) but I think we'd be hard pressed to find many hitters who's front leg is at 90 degrees at the point of contact , like in the photo of Ted ...

[Hard Liner]

It would be nice to have a clip or still of Williams hitting the low pitch. I'm betting it would not look identical to the illustration, with the lead knee bent near 90 degress at contact. Sometimes artistic license can skew the truth. :)
Mike

Yeah, we can't be sure the graphic ended up in the book exactly the way Ted wanted it but the accompanying text says pretty unambiguously - bend the knees. I'm guessing, like you, since the graphic is shown at contact, the knee should be in the process of straightening somewhat. As far as a clip of him hitting a low pitch, that's probably pretty hard to come by - with him particularly.