Ted Williams' combat pilot days

[RuthMayBond]

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2007/december/1213_mccain_baseball1.shtml

[hellborn]

I read that Ted was screaming, "STOP YOU SOB STOP YOU SOB...", over and over while the plane was skidding.
Louise Kaufman (Ted's companion at the end of his life) told Cramer that Ted's hearing problems and incredible loudness started with that crash, but I think that Ted was loud more due to psychology more than physiology.
Ted was actually an instructor during WWII, and I think that he was shipping out for the Pacific when the war ended. All indications were that he was an outstanding pilot, but I've never heard anything about him flying as a civilian later in life.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Wasn't Williams John Glenn's wingman for a time during the Korean War?

[Brian McKenna]

Captains Ted Williams and John Glenn flew with VMA-311 Tomcats in Korea. It was Marine policy to pair up reservist and career fliers, and Williams frequently flew on Glenn's wing.

The crash:

http://tedwilliams.com/index.php?page=burnjet&level=2

WWII:

http://tedwilliams.com/index.php?page=milww2&level=2

Korea:

http://tedwilliams.com/index.php?page=milkorean&level=2

[Los Bravos]

Captains Ted Williams and John Glenn flew with VMA-311 Tomcats in Korea. It was Marine policy to pair up reservist and career fliers, and Williams frequently flew on Glenn's wing.How incredibly cool is that?

Ted always spoke very highly of Sen. Glenn in later years.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How incredibly cool is that?

Ted always spoke very highly of Sen. Glenn in later years.

What else could Ted say about a decorated war hero, astronaut, and Senator? :happy:

[Los Bravos]

I'm pretty sure if Teddy Ballgame hadn't liked him...we'd have known about it :laugh

[Brian McKenna]

His fellow pilots used to goad Williams by nicknaming him Bush - as in bush league.

[hellborn]

What else could Ted say about a decorated war hero, astronaut, and Senator? :happy:

I like and respect Glenn a lot, but he was one of the "Keating Five" politicians. Glenn was absolved of serious wrongdoing (he was only noted as "exercising poor judgment"), but it's never good to have your name show up in that kind of scandal.
I wonder how closely Glenn's personality matched his portrayal by Ed Harris in "The Right Stuff". I also had always thought that Glenn was involved in Apollo, but he was long gone from NASA by then.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I like and respect Glenn a lot, but he was one of the "Keating Five" politicians. Glenn was absolved of serious wrongdoing (he was only noted as "exercising poor judgment"), but it's never good to have your name show up in that kind of scandal.
I wonder how closely Glenn's personality matched his portrayal by Ed Harris in "The Right Stuff". I also had always thought that Glenn was involved in Apollo, but he was long gone from NASA by then.

Harris certainly got the look down. He looked like Glenn's twin! From what I understand Glenn was a straight shooter. There is some controversy as to why Glenn left NASA. Supposedly, there was an "order" that Glenn shouldn't go back into space because if he were killed in space the loss of such a national hero could cripple the fledging American space program. I do not agree with this theory because Glenn left NASA before any Gemini astronauts were chosen and after the success of the Mercury program the space program was in full bore mode. Glenn's potential death wouldn't have stopped its progress. I think Glenn left because he was already in his early 40s and he wanted to try his hand at politics.

[Captain Cold Nose]

He still is a straight shooter. He's made quite a few appearances here in Ohio over the last few years, including involving opening his boyhood home to the public. Which is far more than fellow astronaut and Ohioan Neil Armstrong can say.

[yanks0714]

In David Halberstam's book 'The Teammates' (the story of the life long friendship between Ted, Dom DiMaggio, and Johnny Pesky) he tals about Ted taking the aviation course in the Navy. Pesky states it was a very difficult course and many flunked out. However, Ted aced it. I may be mistaken but I seem to recall that Ted had the highest score ever in the course. His studies of aerodynamics allowed him to breeze through the course. He was deemed to valuable as a Training Instructor (TI) to be sent into combat during WWII.

There was cutoff line, where a potential pilot succeeded or washed out. During the heaviest fighting, the Navy wanted Ted (and I assume other TI's) to pass some pilots who didn't achieve the cutoff line because they needed pilots so bad. Ted refused to pass a sub-standard pilot figuring that the pilot would get himself killed. When the fighting leveled off the Navy, with a suplus of pilots now, wanted Ted and other TI's to 'fail' some pilots that met or exceeded the cutoff line. Again, Ted refused. I don't get the idea that Ted was ever near being shipped out for combat during WWII. Needless to say Ted and Navy were not on the best terms when Ted finally mustered out.

Which led in some fashion to...

Ted was recalled as a Reservist during the Korean War. Ted was very upset that he, and other Reservist's, were being recalled to enter the conflict. He felt that he had given the country his efforts during WWII. When the Navy/Marines wanted Ted to provide some support the armed services propaganda (advertisements, etc) for the effort, Ted flat out refused because he didn't feel he should have been recalled. Nevertheless, he was assigned to flying combat in the Marines. Ted did hios duty and performed brilliantly during combat action.

Yes, Ted gave his time to the country serving in not one, but two, armed conflicts. I salute him for that. But I do have an issue with the romanticism of Ted's armed forces tours of duty. In WWII, Ted never saw combat (many think he served overseas, he didn't) as her served as a TI in Pennsacola during most, if not all, of his time. Of course, being a TI was a very critical requirement to the war effort and Ted made his contribution.

But in the Korean War (armed conflict; police action), Ted did not want to be recalled. He made no secret about it. Refusing to give the Navy/Marines the right to use his name in posters and so forth.

So lets be clear: Ted never saw combat during WWII and never served overseas. He didn't enlist and certianly didn't want to serve during the Korean War. he was recalled as a Reservist, and fought that recall as much as he could. I admire Ted for what he did for his country but lets make sure his service is what it is and not elevated.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I can see it from Ted's point of view. He lost three full seasons due to WW II and now he was asked again to fly again. He must have known he was getting older and it would be even more difficult to leave baseball in his early 30s (as opposed to his early 20s) and then try to come back and play again. But he did play brilliantly after he returned from Korea. From 1954 and on he hit:

.337/.477/.624, 189 OPS+

Wow.

[Brian McKenna]

Serving in the military during a time of war is not to be taken lightly and hardly a reason for criticism. It matters not if you enlisted, were drafted, recalled, didn't want to be there or spoke up at times. I'm not a military guy nor do I get the hoorah stuff - nor am I a big Williams fan - but it seems that a job had to be done and the government needed bodies.

If the government chose to assign some to bases located in the U.S., others to supply companies, others to slaughtering livestock or still others to the front lines, who am I to criticize another for whatever role he or she played. I'll leave that to those with an ax to grind.

I'm not so sure what is romantic about the military - perhaps that's in each individual'
s mind. Discussioning and exchanging facts is not romance.

What I do know is that many lives were altered, shortened and immeasurably affected by their participation. Thankfully, the war machine has never needed me - I'm not sure which part of my life to date I would have had to skip - hopefully, not my family.

[yanks0714]

Serving in the military during a time of war is not to be taken lightly and hardly a reason for criticism. It matters not if you enlisted, were drafted, recalled, didn't want to be there or spoke up at times. I'm not a military guy nor do I get the hoorah stuff - nor am I a big Williams fan - but it seems that a job had to be done and the government needed bodies.

If the government chose to assign some to bases located in the U.S., others to supply companies, others to slaughtering livestock or still others to the front lines, who am I to criticize another for whatever role he or she played. I'll leave that to those with an ax to grind.

I'm not so sure what is romantic about the military - perhaps that's in each individual'
s mind. Discussioning and exchanging facts is not romance.

What I do know is that many lives were altered, shortened and immeasurably affected by their participation. Thankfully, the war machine has never needed me - I'm not sure which part of my life to date I would have had to skip - hopefully, not my family.


If you read my post closely you'll realize I am not criticizing Ted Williams, nor am I demeaning military service in any way. I do have an axe to grind in a manner of speaking, to set the record straight. In fact, I point out that I salute him for his military service. I am simply trying to point out some facts regarding his military service.
Some people seem to think that Ted was gung-ho, enlisting both times, and actively fought in both wars. I've had baseball fans tell me that flat out. I try to tell them the truth but they are 'convinced' from all they've heard about Ted losing som any years to the military that that must be the case.

[Los Bravos]

For what it's worth, I'm not a classic gung ho guy either, I knew all of those facts, and I still think it's an interesting item on the man's resumé.

He had every right to be annoyed at being called back to active duty for Korea. To my mind, he'd done his service already.

[Brian McKenna]

http://www.baseballinwartime.co.uk/player_biographies/williams_ted.htm

[Ubiquitous]

Ted in WWII never saw combat but at the end the brass were shipping him out to combat duty. I believe he made it as far as Hawaii when the war ended. Ted did not want to serve in the military in WWII. He wasn't one of those americans that went rushing to enlist after Pearl Harbor nor did he think he had some kind of duty to America. At the time he was criticized for his views an actions concerning military service. I believe Yawkey and others had to talk him into dropping this squabble and going into the military.

As for the Korean war and serving it was his own fault that he got called up. Ted Williams kept his reservist status after serving in the military. He didn't have to but I think he liked being a captain and such and he he like many others didn't expect another war to drag them back in. If Ted was a more agreeable sort he probably wouldn't have seen action in Korea but he did serve and he did his duty with distinction.

[yanks0714]

Ted in WWII never saw combat but at the end the brass were shipping him out to combat duty. I believe he made it as far as Hawaii when the war ended. Ted did not want to serve in the military in WWII. He wasn't one of those americans that went rushing to enlist after Pearl Harbor nor did he think he had some kind of duty to America. At the time he was criticized for his views an actions concerning military service. I believe Yawkey and others had to talk him into dropping this squabble and going into the military.

As for the Korean war and serving it was his own fault that he got called up. Ted Williams kept his reservist status after serving in the military. He didn't have to but I think he liked being a captain and such and he he like many others didn't expect another war to drag them back in. If Ted was a more agreeable sort he probably wouldn't have seen action in Korea but he did serve and he did his duty with distinction.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this. I thought I'd heard or read that Officers )perhaps up to a certain age) were required by the military to remain on Reserve duty for x number of years after WWII.
Anybody ever hear of this?

[EdTarbusz]

In 1942, Ted Williams had a legit deferment from military service because he was the sole support of his mother. He endured a lot of criticism from the public because he intended to play out the 1942 season (and get paid for it) before enlisting in the military. Williams was an instructor pilot during most of the war, which was a dangerous stateside assignment. By 1945, Williams was assigned to take part in the invasion of Japan.

I believe that most officers of WW2 were kept on as reservists into the early 1950s. Another (now) prominent WW2 vet who was called up as a reservist during the Korean War was Richard Winters of Band of Brothers fame.

[Ubiquitous]

There was two ways to end your tour in WWII. You could go on the inactive reserve list in which case they sent you home immediately. Or you could choose to spend time in China and then they would send you home at which point you would be done. Williams like so many others took the inactive reserve route so they could get home faster.