Yankee Stadium Pre-Renovation

[Lpeters199]

Billy Graham Crusade at the stadium.

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Also some very nice video shots scanning the stadium:

http://www.wheaton.edu/bgc/archives/exhibits/NYC57/13sample72.htm

[RichieA13]

Rare color photo of a young Mantle in the Old Stadium - 1952.

[BSmile]

Mickey Mantle Day - September 18, 1965
The first MM Day, the second was on June 8, 1969 when his glorious #7 was retired.

[Pelt]

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Original caption: 7/6/1941-New York, NY: Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia is seen (R) speaking into the microphone, addressing the baseball throng at Yankee Stadium today, upon the unveiling of a granite memorial to the late Lou Gehrig, one of baseball's greatest heroes. Seen in the group are: Connie Mack (L), manager of the Athletics; Mrs. Lou Gehrig; Yankee manager Joe McCarthy and Bill Dickey, roommate of the late Lou Gehrig (behind Mrs. Gehrig).

[Pelt]

Love Corbis:

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[Pelt]

More form Corbis:

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[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

More form Corbis:

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What is Dimagg wearing in that last photo?? He looks a little out of uniform(!)

[Pelt]

That pic is from when Joe was a coach with the Oakland A's.

[doctor_gogol]

Joe was a coach and VP of the A's in 68-69

Hey, who's that other guy in the jacket?

http://www.thesportgallery.com/products/limited2/diamaggio-a550water.jpg

[mandrake]

Wow, spotted RFK right behind Mantle in that 1965 picture. Some truly amazing shots ! But Joe D in that A's uniform; he should have told Charlie O to drop dead before he wore that thing.

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

Joe was a coach and VP of the A's in 68-69

Hey, who's that other guy in the jacket?

http://www.thesportgallery.com/products/limited2/diamaggio-a550water.jpg

Sad to seem the Clipper hunched over like that. That often happens to the taller amongst us.

[jimmyjimjimz]

Joe was a coach and VP of the A's in 68-69

Hey, who's that other guy in the jacket?

http://www.thesportgallery.com/products/limited2/diamaggio-a550water.jpg

it looks like reggie jackson to me

[Lpeters199]

Yankee Stadium on the cover and a farewell article inside, both viewable on the Internet.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/11010/index.htm

[nymdan]

Yankee Stadium on the cover and a farewell article inside, both viewable on the Internet.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/11010/index.htm
Complete with a feature article written from the stadium's point of view.

[six4three]

I love these shots of 1962 NFL championship game played in Yankee Stadium on December 30, 1962.

[The Monument]

DiMag ignored RFK at Mantle Day in '65 because he thought that the Kennedys had messed w/ Marilyn and also may have been involved in her death. Knowing how Joe D was, I'm surprised he actually showed up,if he knew that Kennedy would be there. Also, he looks ridiculous in the A's colors, about as bad as Yogi looked in his Astros uniform.

[nymdan]

Nice article about the original blueprints for the stadium:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/sports/baseball/19sandomir.html

[SteveJRogers]

DiMag ignored RFK at Mantle Day in '65 because he thought that the Kennedys had messed w/ Marilyn and also may have been involved in her death. Knowing how Joe D was, I'm surprised he actually showed up,if he knew that Kennedy would be there. Also, he looks ridiculous in the A's colors, about as bad as Yogi looked in his Astros uniform.

I forget what the context was, but a liberal female talk show host was talking the Kennedys for some reason (could have been around JFKJR's death), and she knew nothing about sports and defended what the Kennedys were doing.

Anyway, this long time Yankee fan calls in to explain the whole DiMaggio-Kennedy feud, and said that Joe D, who the caller was saying was one of the classiest men around in public, actually spit on RFK that day or something.

Her response, "ALL Ballplayers SPIT! Maybe he felt comfortable being in that ballpark that he was just doing what was natural to him" as he was cutting him off! :rofl:

[Milwaukee County Stadium]

I didn't think I saw this one posted.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U1094725INP.jpg?size=67&uid={f7dd8e09-ea66-405f-8810-3fd90ba0805d}
Is It Just me or in this photo Yankee Stadium's Exterior Looks Wet?

[Lpeters199]

Was the second deck called the mezzanine, and the third deck called the balcony?

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[Lpeters199]

No screen atop the bleacher walls gave the fans an unobstructed view and (in my opinion) gave the bleachers a cleaner look than with that ugly screen.

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[jimmyjimjimz]

Was the second deck called the mezzanine, and the third deck called the balcony?

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That's not just any ordinary fan...............................................
.................................................. .That's Babe Ruth

[locke40]

Was the second deck called the mezzanine, and the third deck called the balcony?

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The second deck was called the "mezzanine", and the third deck was called the "upper grandstand." The lower deck was called the "lower grandstand."

[YanksRule]

The second deck was called the "mezzanine", and the third deck was called the "upper grandstand." The lower deck was called the "lower grandstand."

So what was the reasoning for changing the terms to field/main, loge and tier during the renovation? I mean, the 3 deck layout is still basically the same..

[mrakbaseball]

So what was the reasoning for changing the terms to field/main, loge and tier during the renovation? I mean, the 3 deck layout is still basically the same..

Ticket prices.

[jimmyjimjimz]

No screen atop the bleacher walls gave the fans an unobstructed view and (in my opinion) gave the bleachers a cleaner look than with that ugly screen.

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The 1st pic.................................
.................................was that an exibition game? Cause weren't the Kanas City Monarchs a negro league team?

[alpineinc]

1965, from good old Photoscream (http://flickr.com/photos/67827566@N00/2851572393/) at flickr, aka one of our most venerable picture posters here as well.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/2851572393_987e03f821_o.jpg

[signals34]

Has there ever been a foul ball...behind home plate,or the dugouts...that went over the stadium roof....

[FeelthePower]

Does anybody know for sure what was the height of the facade at Old Yankee Stadium? Doing some research, I found either 108 feet 1 inch or 118 feet. Which one is the real number?

The 118-foot number dates back to 1956, when people at the stadium looked at blueprints to tell how far the Mantle's facade shot of Pedro Ramos went.

The 108-foot-1-inch figure dates back to 1963, when Mantle launched his titanic rocket off Bill Fisher. To make matters even more confusing, newspapers of that time seemed to confuse the height of the impact point and the actual height of the facade. In other words, some said the ball hit the facade at a point 108 feet high, and others said that is was the roof that was 108 feet high....Does anyone know for sure?

Thank you very much for your help

[Lpeters199]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSReU42Vstc

[dabigyankeeman]

Has there ever been a foul ball...behind home plate,or the dugouts...that went over the stadium roof....

i bet plenty have, you just need height on it. i was in the stadium one day when Harry "Suitcase" Simpson hit a foul ball over the roof. it was nowhere near the outfield, just inbetween home and either first base or third base, forget which, it was over 40 years ago. nobody made a big deal of it, the big thing is that no one has ever hit a FAIR ball out of the stadium. the ball i saw was fairly close to home plate, i thought it was neat to see, but as i said, it was no big deal.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Does anybody know for sure what was the height of the facade at Old Yankee Stadium? Doing some research, I found either 108 feet 1 inch or 118 feet. Which one is the real number?

The 118-foot number dates back to 1956, when people at the stadium looked at blueprints to tell how far the Mantle's facade shot of Pedro Ramos went.

The 108-foot-1-inch figure dates back to 1963, when Mantle launched his titanic rocket off Bill Fisher. To make matters even more confusing, newspapers of that time seemed to confuse the height of the impact point and the actual height of the facade. In other words, some said the ball hit the facade at a point 108 feet high, and others said that is was the roof that was 108 feet high....Does anyone know for sure?

Thank you very much for your help

I always thought the facade was about 118 ft. from field level (then again I always thought Tony Soprano would get whacked). Here's one bit of evidence...

http://www.themick.com/Hardestballhr.gif

[jimmyjimjimz]

i bet plenty have, you just need height on it. i was in the stadium one day when Harry "Suitcase" Simpson hit a foul ball over the roof. it was nowhere near the outfield, just inbetween home and either first base or third base, forget which, it was over 40 years ago. nobody made a big deal of it, the big thing is that no one has ever hit a FAIR ball out of the stadium. the ball i saw was fairly close to home plate, i thought it was neat to see, but as i said, it was no big deal.

HAHA his nickname was suitcase? Where'd he get that nickname? That's pretty funny. I'd really like to hear that story.

I always thought the facade was about 118 ft. from field level (then again I always thought Tony Soprano would get whacked). Here's one bit of evidence...

http://www.themick.com/Hardestballhr.gif


Maybe Tony Soprano did get whacked. If everyone's cable didn't go out at the same time, maybe we'd all know. Yes, I thought my cable went out.

[The Monument]

I hope to see Tony Soprano whack one out of NYS in 2009.

[stadiumbuilder]

Does anybody know for sure what was the height of the facade at Old Yankee Stadium? Doing some research, I found either 108 feet 1 inch or 118 feet. Which one is the real number?

The 118-foot number dates back to 1956, when people at the stadium looked at blueprints to tell how far the Mantle's facade shot of Pedro Ramos went.

The 108-foot-1-inch figure dates back to 1963, when Mantle launched his titanic rocket off Bill Fisher. To make matters even more confusing, newspapers of that time seemed to confuse the height of the impact point and the actual height of the facade. In other words, some said the ball hit the facade at a point 108 feet high, and others said that is was the roof that was 108 feet high....Does anyone know for sure?

Thank you very much for your help
If you look at the blueprints posted on this thread a few pages back, it appears, minus a ten foot deep basement, that the outer walls rise 102ft above street level. The bullpens sloped down to the field which may have equalled 6ft, coming to the 108ft number. If you didn't look at the prints carefully, you'd miss the fact that the evevation drawing included the basement, inadvertantly adding that in, which is probably what happened in the 1956 account.

[Lpeters199]

[QUOTE=jimmyjimjimz;1323747]HAHA his nickname was suitcase? Where'd he get that nickname? That's pretty funny. I'd really like to hear that story.




Harry "Suitcase" Simpson played for 17 teams in 11 seasons. He was given a clever and appropriate nickname for that reason.

[Gary Dunaier]

HAHA his nickname was suitcase? Where'd he get that nickname?

If you like that one, you'll love the great Leroy "Satchel" Paige.

http://1952toppsbaseballcards.com/images/1953%20Satchell%20Paige.jpg

[Lpeters199]

According to Wiki, I was wrong about the Suitcase nickname, as well as the number of teams he played for. Sorry about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Simpson

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

1234567890

[Greg B.]

Wow, a photo of the very rare and collectible "Simpson Suitcase", as designed by Harry Simpson himself! Too bad there are not any photos of it open, because if the insides were preserved you'd see the specially designed compartments for a baseball glove, spikes, cap, chewing tobacco, and railway ticket. What a find!!!


:shhh:

[Lpeters199]

Wow, a photo of the very rare and collectible "Simpson Suitcase", as designed by Harry Simpson himself! Too bad there are not any photos of it open, because if the insides were preserved you'd see the specially designed compartments for a baseball glove, spikes, cap, chewing tobacco, and railway ticket. What a find!!!


:shhh:
There are no photos of it open because it's never been opened. Harry never had time to unpack between trades.

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

You guys got it sooooh wrong!!! That is simply an "Imus In The Morning" classic "Two-dollar suitcase"! As in, "Senator so & so folded up like a $2dollar suitcase when I asked him why he voted against children's vaccine legislation". :rofl:

[jimmyjimjimz]

You guys got it sooooh wrong!!! That is simply an "Imus In The Morning" classic "Two-dollar suitcase"! As in, "Senator so & so folded up like a $2dollar suitcase when I asked him why he voted against children's vaccine legislation". :rofl:

Old people humor...................................I just don't get it.


According to Wiki, I was wrong about the Suitcase nickname, as well as the number of teams he played for. Sorry about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Simpson

Well, that story sucks. I thought it was gonna be funny. I like funny stories about how people got their nicknames. I bet the story of how everyone started calling Yogi Berra "Yogi" is pretty funny.

[Gehrig27]

I recently got the "Yankee Stadium: Baseball's Cathedral" DVD; it's very well done and has some great clips in it. A few images caught my eye so I took screenshots of them:

[Yankee4life]

I recently got the "Yankee Stadium: Baseball's Cathedral" DVD; it's very well done and has some great clips in it. A few images caught my eye so I took screenshots of them:

Thanks Gehrig. That's one of the rare pics of the concourse that I've been looking for.

[Gehrig27]

Does anyone know what the rise/run of the seating on the main, mezzanine, and upperdeck levels was? There are alot of measurements in the diagram from my last post but I can't make any of them out and I'm curious as to what some of them are.

[jimmyjimjimz]

so the old old stadium was open air like the new stadium is gonna be then they put walls in when they were renovating, and the old stadium was not open air? Or was only that level open air? Or was it only open air in certian sections?

[kobathecat]

I agree with Jimmyjimjimz that old Yankee stadium was either open air or not. It had concourses. I will be at new Yankee Stadium next year and will go through the concourses and air.

Oh, wait. I must stop assuming another poster's identity! I am infected!!!!!!

[jimmyjimjimz]

I agree with Jimmyjimjimz that old Yankee stadium was either open air or not. It had concourses. I will be at new Yankee Stadium next year and will go through the concourses and air.

Oh, wait. I must stop assuming another poster's identity! I am infected!!!!!!

Check the IP addresses. It's not me.

[locke40]

Check the IP addresses. It's not me.

He was talking about Manhattan.

[jimmyjimjimz]

He was talking about Manhattan.

Yeah, he was saying that he thinks that I go on here with 2 different names, and Manhattan is one of them.

[kobathecat]

I WAS spoofing Manhattan. JimmyJimJimz was just my foil.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

From the September 21st NY Post

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2192/2908074135_958acb8c49_o.jpg

From the same day's Daily News (there was a great article on Bob Sheppard)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/2908014311_f5ebd76847_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2908013937_9cfdc16b90_o.jpg

[mets16]

Old people humor...................................I just don't get it
But you get sarcaism right?

[Mary Ellen]

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet. I found this photo on the NYPL site.

[jimmyjimjimz]

But you get sarcaism right?

Actually, yes I do.


I don't know if anyone has posted this yet. I found this photo on the NYPL site.


Wow, I never knew the land current Yankee Stadium is on, back when old old Yankee Stadium was around, used to be a race car driving rink. And what are those things comming out of the ticket booths?

[signals34]

Does anyone have any photos during the reconstruction of the bleachers...when they were rebuilt to concrete and curved...back in the early '30's??? ,was it...

[stadiumbuilder]

Does anyone have any photos during the reconstruction of the bleachers...when they were rebuilt to concrete and curved...back in the early '30's??? ,was it...
The original wooden bleachers were torn out and rebuilt when they built the right field extension in 1937, although I'm not sure what time of year they were completed. My guess is they were finished prior to the start of the '37season.

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

Actually, yes I do.





Wow, I never knew the land current Yankee Stadium is on, back when old old Yankee Stadium was around, used to be a race car driving rink. And what are those things comming out of the ticket booths?

The things coming out of the booths are the queue fences to help guide fans toward, into, and through the booths into the appropriate gate in the Stadium.

[Friezer]

hope this fits the thread...
1st time poster, long time reader. Love this forum, and especially this thread. So I've obtained bunting that is apparently from Yankee Stadium in its heyday of the 50s:

http://www.nebronx.com/images/bunt1.jpg
http://www.nebronx.com/images/bunt2.jpg
http://www.nebronx.com/images/bunt3.jpg

The second picture says: "The William Skinner Company, Fourth Ave at 17th Street, New York City." I had to remind myself that there actually is a 4th avenue in Manhattan :). William Skinner and Sons were a huge textile/fabric company with origins in Holyoke, MA. They did have multiple sales offices (dba The William Skinner Co.), and NYC had one of them. I don't know if the company had any sort of agreement with the Yankees, however. In 1970, the company was acquired by Springs, and I believe they exist today as Skinner Fabrics.

In the third picture, someone wrote "Press," perhaps for bunting location. And then we come to the "Yankee Stadium" print with 3 boxes, perhaps a positioning tool.

The person from whom I acquired it stated that she obtained it (and several others) from a lady whose father was a grounds keeper in the 50s (I have yet to obtain a name). They were going to be destroyed, so he took it home, and personally used them for the holidays. I have no reason to doubt the authenticity, but would love to get further verification of a specific year of use, or anything else to place it in an historically accurate context. It seems that quite a few different styles were used over the years, but some pics from '49 onward seem to match up OK (will post pics later).

I've actually gone through every single page of this thread looking at all the different bunting- what a journey! The size is a standard 5' x 3' or so. If anyone can help out in any way, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[yankees82]

wow that's great. that kind of memorabilia is one-of-a-kind (until more are found). priceless in my opinion. thanks for sharing.

[YankeeStadium1923]

hope this fits the thread...
1st time poster, long time reader. Love this forum, and especially this thread. So I've obtained bunting that is apparently from Yankee Stadium in its heyday of the 50s:

http://www.nebronx.com/images/bunt1.jpg
http://www.nebronx.com/images/bunt2.jpg
http://www.nebronx.com/images/bunt3.jpg

The second picture says: "The William Skinner Company, Fourth Ave at 17th Street, New York City." I had to remind myself that there actually is a 4th avenue in Manhattan :). William Skinner and Sons were a huge textile/fabric company with origins in Holyoke, MA. They did have multiple sales offices (dba The William Skinner Co.), and NYC had one of them. I don't know if the company had any sort of agreement with the Yankees, however. In 1970, the company was acquired by Springs, and I believe they exist today as Skinner Fabrics.

In the third picture, someone wrote "Press," perhaps for bunting location. And then we come to the "Yankee Stadium" print with 3 boxes, perhaps a positioning tool.

The person from whom I acquired it stated that she obtained it (and several others) from a lady whose father was a grounds keeper in the 50s (I have yet to obtain a name). They were going to be destroyed, so he took it home, and personally used them for the holidays. I have no reason to doubt the authenticity, but would love to get further verification of a specific year of use, or anything else to place it in an historically accurate context. It seems that quite a few different styles were used over the years, but some pics from '49 onward seem to match up OK (will post pics later).

I've actually gone through every single page of this thread looking at all the different bunting- what a journey! The size is a standard 5' x 3' or so. If anyone can help out in any way, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!
I have attached color photos of the bunting at Yankee Stadium in 1957.

If you look closely at the bunting lining the Upper Deck you can see that there were 2 types of bunting with alternating color schemes.


http://members.aol.com/bridge1883/StadiumBunting

[Friezer]

YankeeStadium1923- Those are actually the two pics I focused on! It's quite interesting to see how something as simple as bunting as progressed at the Stadium and around baseball: (all pics from this thread)

1923: Really ornate! Medium sized
http://www.nebronx.com/images/1923.jpg

1927: Bunting & American flags?!
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/Yankee_Stadium_1927-WorldSeries.jpg

1931: Huge & simple- color:white:color w/ flags
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/U150610ACMEBabeandClaire1931.jpg

1932: same as '31?
http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5025&stc=1&d=1138397886

1939: Some huge (on the upper deck), but with alternating colors and styles and smaller ones on field level
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/WS4Oct1939.jpg

1941: Same as '39?
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/WS1Oct1941.jpg

1942: same as '39
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/GKreindler/YankeeStadium1942.jpg

1943: Kinda the same as '39, but with more of the 3-striped variety
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/30834-002.jpg

1949: Getting smaller! W/ uniform colors
http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21120&stc=1&d=1173637297

1950: Same as '49
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/TributetotroopsinKoreabeforeWS6Oct1.jpg


...'cont

[Friezer]

1951: Some have stars now
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/WS5Oct1951.jpg

1952: Basically same as '50
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/GKreindler/PDVD_237.jpg

1957: Uniform sizes and designs throughout, but with alternating colors
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/GKreindler/Untitled-1-2.jpg
http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35584&stc=1&d=1202824724

1961: Alternating sizes/ styles on the upper deck, smaller ones on the lower
http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37615&stc=1&d=1205502877

1969: Back to alternating styles and sizes
http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16649&stc=1&d=1167281238

Jump forward to:
2003 WS: Uniform size/ style w/ Stars?
http://www.nebronx.com/images/03.jpg

2008 ASG: Essentially the same in the 2000s
http://www.nebronx.com/images/asg.jpg
2008 Final Game:
http://www.nebronx.com/images/final.jpg

Hope you enjoyed the timeline as much I did :)

[brooklyndodger14]

We just came from the open preview of the Baker Collection of Yankee Stadium memorabilia where there is a vast assembly of original Stadium blueprints by Osborn Engineering covering the 1923, 1927, 1936, and 1946 construction and expansion phases. There is even one from the 1960's of from the CBS period 1966-67 refurbishing.

What is most fascinating are the set of cancelled plans which had the double decking of the bleachers complete with second deck access direct from the number 4 Subway platform!

Will post pics later.

Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

[kobathecat]

We just came from the open preview of the Baker Collection of Yankee Stadium memorabilia where there is a vast assembly of original Stadium blueprints by Osborn Engineering covering the 1923, 1927, 1936, and 1946 construction and expansion phases. There is even one from the 1960's of from the CBS period 1966-67 refurbishing.

What is most fascinating are the set of cancelled plans which had the double decking of the bleachers complete with second deck access direct from the number 4 Subway platform!

Will post pics later.

Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

Can't wait!

[DHYF162]

I know the picture is on this forum, but if anyone has the picture of old yankee stadium with the frieze with the view from behind homeplate it would be great if you could post it. It also says sports illustrated in the corner of the picture too if that helps.

[locke40]

She was beautiful, no doubt.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1369/1132145577_801b366df1_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1127/1270515883_268f87d9ff_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/1271380510_fa5f3e432b_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1258/1111635794_5ebe30eee2_o.jpg

[Gary Dunaier]

We just came from the open preview of the Baker Collection of Yankee Stadium memorabilia where there is a vast assembly of original Stadium blueprints by Osborn Engineering covering the 1923, 1927, 1936, and 1946 construction and expansion phases. There is even one from the 1960's of from the CBS period 1966-67 refurbishing.

What is most fascinating are the set of cancelled plans which had the double decking of the bleachers complete with second deck access direct from the number 4 Subway platform!

Will post pics later.

Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

I was there yesterday, and I took pictures... I've got 31 of 'em on Flickr, all of which can be seen here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/14504460@N02/sets/72157608121861562/).

[Manhattan]

I was there yesterday, and I took pictures... I've got 31 of 'em on Flickr, all of which can be seen here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/14504460@N02/sets/72157608121861562/).I agree with locke40 that Old Yankee Stadium was beautiful.

[kobathecat]

I agree with locke40 that Old Yankee Stadium was beautiful.

I agree with the moderators of Baseball Fever that you need to stop redundant, irrelevant posts that quote entirely unrelated comments by other members.

[Mary Ellen]

McCombs Dam Park Races February 1947

[The Monument]

Thanks for those auction pix, Gary. I was hoping to go but my son had a football game mid-afternoon. There is usually an auction book for sale. Did you see any? It would have all items listed, many with photos.

[brooklyndodger14]

Thanks for those auction pix, Gary. I was hoping to go but my son had a football game mid-afternoon. There is usually an auction book for sale. Did you see any? It would have all items listed, many with photos.

You can get an auction catalog for $28 complete at the Guernsey's site:

http://www.guernseys.com

You will get a 2' x 3' poster of a bleacher blueprint (pretty nondescript picture when compared to other grandstand plans) plus a CD with .jpg's of all lots (excluding last second additions which are listed on paper only).


Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

[Gary Dunaier]

Yes, there was a catalogue for sale... price $22 in person... here's how they were laid out on the registration table during Friday's preview...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3241/2949991329_b43c5f8c6c.jpg?v=0
(Photo taken October 17, 2008. © Gary Dunaier. Link to upload on Flickr.com: here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/14504460@N02/2949991329/in/set-72157608121861562/))

I'm sure you can still order them directly from Guernsey's. It's $28 by mail, and it includes a 2'x3' poster and a CD that includes "extensive" images (I can't attest to that, since the copy I got in person didn't include a CD). If you order, make sure to ask for the addendum, which has items not included in the catalogue such as the last home run ball hit at Yankee Stadium, and other big pieces.

According to news reports, the auction was not as thrilling as it might have seemed: some of the big items, for instance the aforementioned home run ball didn't sell, and others sold for less than expected. I was surprised the ball didn't sell: during Friday's preview I overheard someone point out to a reporter that unlike home run record balls, the status of this ball as the last home run ever hit at Yankee Stadium will never be challenged.

[alpineinc]

It's quite interesting to see how something as simple as bunting as progressed at the Stadium and around baseball:

Nice work Friezer - very interesting how even something like the bunting would change throughout the years...

[curb my enthusiasm]

I was just looking at some of the pictures of the pre-renovated stadium. I didn't realize how big the bleachers were until now. They were huge! How many people did all of the bleacher sections seat? I'd be surprised if the people all the way in the back of the bleachers could see much of anything in the infield.

[RichardLillard1]

McCombs Dam Park Races February 1947

I think this might be the time for a lot of the people to go through and look at the other pages of this thread, it might be time consuming, but it will stop things like the double posts I've seen so much of lately.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but why add pages of material that's already here?


Richard

[locke40]

I was just looking at some of the pictures of the pre-renovated stadium. I didn't realize how big the bleachers were until now. They were huge! How many people did all of the bleacher sections seat? I'd be surprised if the people all the way in the back of the bleachers could see much of anything in the infield.

The back end of the bleachers never changed during the renovation. All they did was chop off a bunch of rows (I don't know the exact number) in the front and far left of the bleachers to add the bullpens.

[spiderico]

The back end of the bleachers never changed during the renovation. All they did was chop off a bunch of rows (I don't know the exact number) in the front and far left of the bleachers to add the bullpens.

Everything in front of the tunnels in left field is what was chopped off. Beind the tunnels is exacty as it originally was.

[locke40]

Hope you enjoyed the timeline as much I did :)

Did you ever come across when they stopped putting the bunting on the frieze? I REALLY hope they bring that back next season.

http://images.nypl.org/?id=101054&t=w

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

I'm not sure if these have been posted before.

1931
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2976952062_1c56fc4eec_o.jpg

1928
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2976096217_c7f9fd8091_o.jpg

1923
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2976951072_060d47055a_o.jpg

2 from 1967
ENLARGE (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/2976096023_8624a38a4b_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/2976096023_0e3c3ca41a_b.jpg

ENLARGE (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/2976095769_774bbf296d_o.jpg)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/2976095769_0035280828_b.jpg

Interesting wire photo diagram from 1963
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2976952352_64b8b67821_o.jpg

[alpineinc]

Don't think these have been here before either...

1956

http://img.nytstore.com/IMAGES/NSAP1513_EXTR.JPG


1955

http://img.nytstore.com/IMAGES/NSAP1512_EXTR.JPG


1958 NFL Championship, winning play

http://img.nytstore.com/IMAGES/NSAP1530_EXTR.JPG

[Gary Dunaier]

I'm not sure if these have been posted before.

1931
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2976952062_1c56fc4eec_o.jpg


This is an awesome shot! There's a similar angle, possibly taken at the same time, that's advertised on Ebay as being from 1945, which is obviously incorrect... but if this was taken from the Bronx County Building, which is what I'm presuming, it can't be any earlier than 1933 or 1934, which is when the building opened.

Here's a similar view taken by the North Shore Neon Company July 28, 2008...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/nsnsignco002/SI22IuSNCxI/AAAAAAAAAHI/tQh7GJVDtsg/Untitled9.jpg
(Uploaded to Picasa Web Albums by user NSN Sign Co.; described as having been taken July 28, 2008. Link to original Picasa Web Albums upload: here (http://picasaweb.google.com/nsnsignco002/YankeeStadium#5228035003426605842))

[alpineinc]

This is an awesome shot! There's a similar angle, possibly taken at the same time, that's advertised on Ebay as being from 1945, which is obviously incorrect... but if this was taken from the Bronx County Building, which is what I'm presuming, it can't be any earlier than 1933 or 1934, which is when the building opened.


Here's the photo above and the similar angle, taken only a few feet over from the first, but slightly different time frame (bunting, game in progress).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2976952062_1c56fc4eec_o.jpghttp://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/ys32.jpg?t=1225088986

Actually, the photos are probably Sept 1932 (trees and bunting, only WS in the early 30's, and the courthouse was started in '31, so could've been taken from the incomplete structure), and the first photo was posted before - and Gary, you had an interesting analysis of the photo back in Post 855 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1113812&postcount=855)!

A couple of posts later, Stlfan picked up on the little residential house near the stadium that saw unprecedented growth around it (Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore!), which is amazing - I'll repost here again (9 year difference, 1923 to 1932, and note the PG in background of first pic):

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/VV11013jpgfilena7F28E4.jpg?t=1225089272http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/U631432INP.jpg?t=1225089678

[Lpeters199]

Some nice footage here.

http://www.efootage.com/masters/1964b/1964-Part-II

[brooklyndodger14]

This is a photo from The Spectacle of Sport published in 1957 by Sports Illustrated. Taken by Hy Peskin from the mezzanine level at the same camera angle as seen on the old WPIX Channel 11 telecasts. It shows Whitey Ford pitching to a Detroit Tiger.

Even though it would now be considered so very low tech, I miss this angle as opposed to the now standard CF camera. It was more the "fan's" view as one camera would follow the pitch from windup, to delivery, to batter contact and result... all in one shot.

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54378&stc=1&d=1225591860

Of course, in those days, seeing the action on TV was more like this...

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54379&stc=1&d=1225592704

Yet it was because of seeing the game like that is what made going to the ballpark to see a game live such an almost overwhelming revelation.

Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

[alpineinc]

Sporting News, 1937.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/yssn37.jpg?t=1225604209

[Mattingly85MVP]

Great color/hi resolution photos of old yankee stadium here:
http://flickr.com/photos/sherwoodh/sets/72157608544393719/

4 great shots, 1 of the gate 4 entrance and 3 others inside
couldn't post them bc they are really large

[The House That Ruth Built]

Sorry folks, another YS thread...

This question has always bothered me, and quite honestly, I am too lazy to search the threads to find an answer.

What year was the Longines Clock and the white "YANKEE STADIUM" lettering added atop Gate 4?

Thanks!

[alpineinc]

Great find, Mattingly! Sweet stuff - gotta post 'em!!

September 19, 1959. Yanks beat the Bosox, 3-1, Whitey Ford complete game, Marvelous Marv Throneberry knocked one out.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2989108125_48d91cbb82_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/2989105677_7dbf0a5d76_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/2989966340_0398487b24_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2989115177_23d4dbe42f_b.jpg

[The House That Ruth Built]

No answers???

This question stumped me.

Anyone who knows the answer, please shout it out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[metfan13]

There's a search function.

Could have saved YS thread #714

[The House That Ruth Built]

There's a search function.

Could have saved YS thread #714

I sifted through a few pages on the search. I couldn't find anything (I looked quickly, maybe I overlooked something?) I understand that there are a TON of YS threads, but this is a serious question. It's not like i'm comparing NYS to a ship on Star trek. http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83609&highlight=new+yankee+stadium

Thanks again!

[SparkyL]

I sifted through a few pages on the search. I couldn't find anything (I looked quickly, maybe I overlooked something?) I understand that there are a TON of YS threads, but this is a serious question. It's not like i'm comparing NYS to a ship on Star trek. http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83609&highlight=new+yankee+stadium

Thanks again!

I wouldn't mind knowing that too. And why they decided to do it.

[The House That Ruth Built]

I wouldn't mind knowing that too. And why they decided to do it.

When you think about it, it's an interesting question. That big clock looked horrible and it kinda ruined the grandeur on the exterior facade. It almost makes you wonder what they were thinking.

[ChineseDemocracy]

Did they keep the clock the whole time until the renovation?

[locke40]

I'm sure most of you saw this photograph in the New Yankee Stadium Construction thread, but I thought I'd post it here for posteriority.

54673

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

. . . posteriority.

54673



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[locke40]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm guessing by your reaction, that is not the right word to use. :)

[yankees82]

before and after

[yankees82]

construction: old vs new

[locke40]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/2309313604_8d0c450ca8_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1340/1143143814_984c294b78_o.jpg

[soup]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/2309313604_8d0c450ca8_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1340/1143143814_984c294b78_o.jpg

looks like there were lines on the warning track for running lanes

[yankees82]

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54673&d=1226163818

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

If locke40 doesn't mind, I marked up that most excellent photograph, from behind HP, of the 1923 playing field. Allowing as much as possible for the perspective, it shows how much Babe Ruth's, DiMaggio's, and Mick's playground was HACKED into it's current configuration!:banghead:

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

I'm guessing by your reaction, that is not the right word to use. :)


Oh man, you used the right word alrighty! Let's just chalk it up to POSTERITY!!! :eek:

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

looks like there were lines on the warning track for running lanes

Man, they could've held an OLYMPICS in there!!

[Yankees73]

looks like there were lines on the warning track for running lanes
I keep asking this without anyone confirming. Was the warning track with lanes used for bike racing? I heard it was a huge sport in the first part of the century.

[brooklyndodger14]

I keep asking this without anyone confirming. Was the warning track with lanes used for bike racing? I heard it was a huge sport in the first part of the century.

I know that the track is an official AAU (standing for either for American or Amateur Athletic Union) sanctioned running track. I believe that is mentioned as such in the 1923 Opening Day program.


Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

[alpineinc]

1947 Sporting News, from Gene Mack of the Boston Globe.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/sn4613mackys.jpg?t=1226249837

[locke40]

Jackie Robinson on first base.

http://72.37.159.45/App_Themes/Images/Auctions_Images/811/popups/59520a.jpg

[The Monument]

For years John Sterling has been talking about the amount of foul territory between the foul line and the wall down the lines. "It's gotta be about a foot, right Suzyn?" and she replies with a disinterested "Mmmmm". It's more like 4' , but as the old photo above shows, it actually was about 1' years ago.

[locke40]

I love that right field corner, very quirky. It's a shame it was destroyed in the 70's.

[Mattingly85MVP]

Found this pic on flickr from user digipixbycm.com
http://flickr.com/photos/digipixbycm/

[RichardLillard1]

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54673&d=1226163818


I don't like to be in the habit of quoting someone's picture, but check this out really carefully. There was another picture like it over in the thred about Burn's Eye View, it was a picture from the '36 World Series and if you look closely, the bleachers are in their finished state, but the right field extension is not.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find it interesting because you don't see these shots often.


Richard

[alpineinc]

Late '60's - early '70's shot. Don't know if this has been here before, apologies if it has.

http://72.37.159.45/App_Themes/Images/Auctions_Images/714/popups/53587a.jpg

[The House That Ruth Built]

The photo is flipped backwards (horizontally), which leads to my question...again.

Does anyone have any idea when the big Longines Clock was added atop Gate 4, as well as the huge YANKEE STADIUM lettering.

Thanks! :homeplate:

[TJH1923]

I don't like to be in the habit of quoting someone's picture, but check this out really carefully. There was another picture like it over in the thred about Burn's Eye View, it was a picture from the '36 World Series and if you look closely, the bleachers are in their finished state, but the right field extension is not.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find it interesting because you don't see these shots often.


Richard

I too was taking long look at the photo behind homeplate. I haven't seen that photo before with the right field stands being built. I am guessing it is opening day 1937. I took a look at the box scores from the WS that year and none of the attendance figures would match the upper decks not being filled and in fact the attendance numbers are indicitive of the right field stands being complete for the WS.

[TJH1923]

This aerial is also from the 1937 season. Maybe even the same game.

[RichardLillard1]

I've seen that photo before, but if you go and take a look at the "Burns Eye View" thread, you'll see the Yankee Stadium picture shows that the bleachers are finished concrete during the 1936 World Series and without the upper deck even started. I just think it's interesting to say the least.

As for the Longines clock, I believe '58? It could have been almost any time really, it's just about as illusive as the ornamental pieces at the end of the grandstand which disappeared in either 1960 or 1961 at some time.

Although a thought I had about those, if they were all copper just like the frieze, they could have been removed to sell off for scrap and make some hefty profit from. Just a thought.


Richard

[ChineseDemocracy]

I wonder why they got rid of the windows on the exterior?

[mrakbaseball]

Has anyone seen pictures of the model made by Brad Merila? It was mentioned in the book Green Cathedrals by Philip J. Lowry. There's a small picture of it on page 68 in the hard cover edition. It's a 500,000 piece, 2.5 by 3 ft model of the stadium as it was in 1973. It took 8,000 hours and 16.5 years to construct. The tarpaulins are made out of drinking straws, the foul poles out of music wire, and the stadium itself out of balsa strips from 1/16 to 1/32 of an inch thick. Located in Shelter Island, New York?

[Yankees73]

I know that the track is an official AAU (standing for either for American or Amateur Athletic Union) sanctioned running track. I believe that is mentioned as such in the 1923 Opening Day program.


Dennis
BrooklynDodger14
Thanks Dennis

[doctor_gogol]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f177/detoth67/YS.jpg

[alpineinc]

Thank you, doctor. I think I need an eye doctor after posting that one, lol.

[RichardLillard1]

If locke40 doesn't mind, I marked up that most excellent photograph, from behind HP, of the 1923 playing field. Allowing as much as possible for the perspective, it shows how much Babe Ruth's, DiMaggio's, and Mick's playground was HACKED into it's current configuration!:banghead:


That's a great illustration, but home plate should be moved forward even more. After the 1923 season, they moved the plated forward about 13(?) feet to eliminate this awful spot of fair territory in right field where balls would bounce, carrom and be overal completely unpredictable. It was known as bloody angle and it was right where the wooden bleacher structure met the concret grandstand.

Home plate stayed there until the renovation in 1973, but of course was moved forward another ten or so feet during this time, to its present location.


Richard

[doctor_gogol]

Thank you, doctor. I think I need an eye doctor after posting that one, lol.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f177/detoth67/Welcome.jpg

[TJH1923]

My guess is this photo is taken from the roof of the Polo Grounds Housing Development (projects or PJs for those not in tune with political correctness).

I am going to take a guess that the Longines clock over gate 4 was installed the same time the scoreboard was installed in 1959.

[Yankeefan3783]

That's a great picture. It looks very majestic.

[Aviator_Frank]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f177/detoth67/Welcome.jpg

I can't read Hebrew. Can you translate? :D

[SparkyL]

My guess is this photo is taken from the roof of the Polo Grounds Housing Development (projects or PJs for those not in tune with political correctness).

I am going to take a guess that the Longines clock over gate 4 was installed the same time the scoreboard was installed in 1959.

Without doing any research . . I believe that the Longines clock was installed along with the white "YANKEE STADIUM" letters that were on a black background (maybe along with the new scoreboard). I have no idea if those letters lit up.

A little later on (1968 - as part of the major paint job?), they added a message board below the Longines clock, removed the white YS letters and the black background, and installed the blue YS letters directly to the exterior facade. When the Stadium was renovated the same blue letters were re-installed.

[jimmyjimjimz]

i can't read hebrew. Can you translate? :d

lame!!!!!!!!!!

[The House That Ruth Built]

Without doing any research . . I believe that the Longines clock was installed along with the white "YANKEE STADIUM" letters that were on a black background (maybe along with the new scoreboard). I have no idea if those letters lit up.

A little later on (1968 - as part of the major paint job?), they added a message board below the Longines clock, removed the white YS letters and the black background, and installed the blue YS letters directly to the exterior facade. When the Stadium was renovated the same blue letters were re-installed.

My guess is 1957. The scorecoard was replaced in '58 (i think), so maybe this was a precursor to the new scoreboard.

[doctor_gogol]

lame!!!!!!!!!!

Lamé!!!!!!!

http://images.allposters.com/images/130/009_220-272.jpg

[DaBigMotor]

This photo can't be earlier than 1967.

That's the year that the exterior was first painted white, and when the freize was painted white, as clearly seen in this photo.

[Gary Dunaier]

My guess is this photo is taken from the roof of the Polo Grounds Housing Development (projects or PJs for those not in tune with political correctness).

Sounds like a very, very reasonable guess.

The Polo Grounds Houses are a great vantage point from where to take photos of the Yankee Stadiums (plural intended). I'm surprised we haven't seen more photos from there.

I hope someone will take pictures of the demolition from there. Again, it's a great vantage point.

[alpineinc]

Lamé!!!!!!!

http://images.allposters.com/images/130/009_220-272.jpghttp://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/alpineinc/elvisreversed.jpg?t=1226465465

LOL!!! Touche'!

And this is before Elvis was slathered in white as well (corpulent Elvis)...

Hebrew joke was hilarious also, btw.

Now back to your regularly scheduled YS thread.

[mrakbaseball]

Has anyone seen pictures of the model made by Brad Merila? It was mentioned in the book Green Cathedrals by Philip J. Lowry. There's a small picture of it on page 68 in the hard cover edition. It's a 500,000 piece, 2.5 by 3 ft model of the stadium as it was in 1973. It took 8,000 hours and 16.5 years to construct. The tarpaulins are made out of drinking straws, the foul poles out of music wire, and the stadium itself out of balsa strips from 1/16 to 1/32 of an inch thick. Located in Shelter Island, New York?

Search for pics of this model. Find out the location. :reporter:
Thanks brooklyndodger14.

[brooklyndodger14]

Has anyone seen pictures of the model made by Brad Merila? It was mentioned in the book Green Cathedrals by Philip J. Lowry. There's a small picture of it on page 68 in the hard cover edition. It's a 500,000 piece, 2.5 by 3 ft model of the stadium as it was in 1973. It took 8,000 hours and 16.5 years to construct. The tarpaulins are made out of drinking straws, the foul poles out of music wire, and the stadium itself out of balsa strips from 1/16 to 1/32 of an inch thick. Located in Shelter Island, New York?

Check in the 3D Yankee Stadium (1960's) thread by Kaplanski in Posts #130-139, and #150 (all July 2008) for a discussion and new pictures of Brad's model. Mr. Merila can be contacted directly through the Fever under the name "the stadium guy."

Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

[YankeeFanBx]

Sounds like a very, very reasonable guess.

The Polo Grounds Houses are a great vantage point from where to take photos of the Yankee Stadiums (plural intended). I'm surprised we haven't seen more photos from there.

I hope someone will take pictures of the demolition from there. Again, it's a great vantage point.
I have a feeling you do not want to go on many rooftops in the Polo Grounds Houses. Having grown up in the projects (not this one), I know it's not very safe.:eek:

[the stadium guy]

Why search, when I can just post one?:)

[mrakbaseball]

Why search, when I can just post one?:)

Yep, That's the one. :applaud:

[IPO]

That is just beautiful.

[jimmyjimjimz]

Why search, when I can just post one?:)

is that a birthday cake? I want a Yankee Stadium birthday cake.

Lamé!!!!!!!

http://images.allposters.com/images/130/009_220-272.jpg

I'd laugh if I thought it was funny, but I don't get it. What does a drug addict who died on the toilet have to do with something being lame?

[tugger]

Some posts aren't worth acknowledging. But I guess I just did.

[YanksRule]

looks like there were lines on the warning track for running lanes

Yeah, that literally was a running track, the reason for it was because no modern field was ever called a "stadium" before Yankee Stadium, so to be able to use that term, they wanted everything all places called "stadiums" had, which was really only in ancient Greece for the Olympics- fancy designed architecture, hence the frieze, and a running track.

Players knew they were coming to the wall when the felt the rubber of the track, hence how the first warning track came into existance.

[soup]

Yeah, that literally was a running track, the reason for it was because no modern field was ever called a "stadium" before Yankee Stadium, so to be able to use that term, they wanted everything all places called "stadiums" had, which was really only in ancient Greece for the Olympics- fancy designed architecture, hence the frieze, and a running track.

Players knew they were coming to the wall when the felt the rubber of the track, hence how the first warning track came into existance.

no kidding? Yankee stadium was the birth of the warning track?

Learn something new every day, eh?

[Wall-E]

is that a birthday cake? I want a yankee stadium birthday cake.



I'd laugh if i thought it was funny, but i don't get it. What does a drug addict who died on the toilet have to do with something being lame?

Off with his head!

[jimmyjimjimz]

Off with his head!

I don't get that either. Would you people please kindly explain your jokes if theyre over 25 years old?

[Wall-E]

I don't get that either. Would you people please kindly explain your jokes if theyre over 25 years old?

Burn it with fire!

[jimmyjimjimz]

Burn it with fire!

you mean like this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v192/jimmyjimjimz/Hendrix.jpg


??????????

[The Monument]

So, the stadium guy is Brad Merila. Brad, I saw your model years ago on display in the Centereach Library. I think I sent you copies of a newsletter I used to do about the Stadium. In fact, it was called The Monument. I'd forgotten all about that, but I guess it was in my sub-conscious when I chose my name for this site. I was wondering where you'd been.

[David Atkatz]

Yeah, that literally was a running track, the reason for it was because no modern field was ever called a "stadium" before Yankee Stadium, so to be able to use that term, they wanted everything all places called "stadiums" had, which was really only in ancient Greece for the Olympics- fancy designed architecture, hence the frieze, and a running track.

Players knew they were coming to the wall when the felt the rubber of the track, hence how the first warning track came into existance.

It was a bicycle track. Big sport in 1923.

The place being called a "stadium" had nothing to do with it.

It was not a rubber track. Rubber tracks wouldn't be invented for another fifty years.

Other than that...

[RichardLillard1]

Yeah, that literally was a running track, the reason for it was because no modern field was ever called a "stadium" before Yankee Stadium, so to be able to use that term, they wanted everything all places called "stadiums" had, which was really only in ancient Greece for the Olympics- fancy designed architecture, hence the frieze, and a running track.

Players knew they were coming to the wall when the felt the rubber of the track, hence how the first warning track came into existance.

The frieze was meant to be in the style and feel of opera houses, not Greek "stadiums."

Also, I don't think it was called a warning track at first, in the outfield, the track wasn't right up against the wall. Not to mention that when the stands were completed in 1936-37, the track was removed and not put back in until after the second world war.


Richard

[Lpeters199]

Viewed from the mezzanine in right field.

[soup]

back to the warning track deal....is it confirmed that OYS was the originator of the warning track? Just looking at old pics of stadiums, I never really see any proper warning track.

[YanksRule]

It was a bicycle track. Big sport in 1923.

The place being called a "stadium" had nothing to do with it.

It was not a rubber track. Rubber tracks wouldn't be invented for another fifty years.

Other than that...

Okay, gravel (or something) not rubber... but was there any other place called a Stadium before Yankee Stadium besides the Greeks? I wish I remember the source of where I first heard this or I'd post it..

EDIT: Found it:

Old Yankee Stadium was the first three-tiered sports facility in the United States and one of the first baseball parks to be given the lasting title of stadium. Baseball teams typically played in a park or a field. The word stadium deliberately evoked ancient Greece, where a stadium was unit of measure--the length of a footrace; the buildings that housed footraces were called stadiums. Yankee Stadium was one of the first to be deliberately designed as a multi-purpose facility. The field was initially surrounded by a (misshapen) quarter-mile running track, which effectively also served as a warning track for outfielders, a feature now standard on all major league fields. The left and right field bleacher sections were laid out at right angles to each other, and to the third base stands, to be properly positioned for both track-and-field events and football. The large electronic scoreboard in right-center field, featuring both teams' lineups and scores of other baseball games, was the first of its kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Stadium

http://www.articleworld.org/index.php/Yankee_stadium

[Pelt]

I'm glad that it's making the distinction of saying that the Yankee Stadium is the first baseball venue to be called 'Stadium'. Because there were plenty of football venues that were already referred to as 'Stadium' before YS was ever built.

[YankeeStadium1923]

I'm glad that it's making the distinction of saying that the Yankee Stadium is the first baseball venue to be called 'Stadium'. Because there were plenty of football venues that were already referred to as 'Stadium' before YS was ever built.
Yankee Stadium was the first to be called a STADIUM.....Many today may recall other venues as Stadiums when refering to old Fields, Parks, Grounds, or Bowls as Stadiums...However that was not the case until Yankee Stadium opened.
Briggs/Tiger Stadium was called Navin Field when opened in 1912.

[jnakamura]

Yankee Stadium was the first to be called a STADIUM.....Many today may recall other venues as Stadiums when refering to old Fields, Parks, Grounds, or Bowls as Stadiums...However that was not the case until Yankee Stadium opened.
Briggs/Tiger Stadium was called Navin Field when opened in 1912.

I'm glad that it's making the distinction of saying that the Yankee Stadium is the first baseball venue to be called 'Stadium'. Because there were plenty of football venues that were already referred to as 'Stadium' before YS was ever built.

Not true guys - Brush Stadium, later called the Polo Grounds, was so-called 12 years before YS opened. Another myth is that the Polo Grounds was built as a multi-purpose - it was not. It was built primarily as a baseball stadium for Brush's Giants.

http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/ws_programs/images/1911_giants_cover.jpg

http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/ws_programs/images/1911_giants_cover.htm

[Pelt]

Yankee Stadium was the first to be called a STADIUM.....Many today may recall other venues as Stadiums when refering to old Fields, Parks, Grounds, or Bowls as Stadiums...However that was not the case until Yankee Stadium opened.
Briggs/Tiger Stadium was called Navin Field when opened in 1912.

Harvard Stadium was called as such, ever since it's existence in 1903.

And that Brush Stadium score card was a great find. I had completely forgotten about that.

[RichardLillard1]

EDIT: Found it:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Stadium

http://www.articleworld.org/index.php/Yankee_stadium


You CANNOT trust user submitted sites like that. I'm sorry if I sound cruel, but if you really want to be taken seriously by others on this forum, do your homework. You need to look in other places for the information you post, unless you're going to say that it is not credible information.

In the future, I would encourage you to look at the references listed and read them carefully. If there is still a grey area, look elsewhere. The information is always out there, either in libraries, the internet or even a trip to a bookstore if all else fails.


Richard

[Mattingly85MVP]

Found a couple of shots I'd never seen before available on the steinersports website...
http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/keywordsearch?LAST_SORT=0&SEARCH_STRING=yankee+stadium&ADD_FACET=&REMOVE_FACET=&SORT=0&ITEMS=20&PAGE=3&FACET_LIST=&FlagCategories_t=select&ListPrice_rf=select&TeamCategories_t=select&PlayerCategories_t=select&SORT_SEL=0&ITEMS_SEL=20

[jimmyjimjimz]

Viewed from the mezzanine in right field.

why does it look like those people are jumping on top of someone? Or did someone fall and theyre helping him/her up?

[David Atkatz]

why does it look like those people are jumping on top of someone? Or did someone fall and theyre helping him/her up?

Another typical Jimz question.

[Lpeters199]

why does it look like those people are jumping on top of someone? Or did someone fall and theyre helping him/her up?
A 19 year-old truck driver named Sal Durante is holding up the ball that Roger Maris has just hit for his 61st home run of 1961. The fans behind him don't yet know he's caught the ball, and they're searching for it on the floor where they think it landed.

[icee82]

Does anyone know which World Series this might be from? Could it be from 1961?

[The House That Ruth Built]

Does anyone know which World Series this might be from? Could it be from 1961?

Yup, I believe so.

[icee82]

A little more information on the pic from the 1961 World Series. It is from Game 1 and it is in the bottom of the first inning. Jim O'Toole is pitching from the Reds, Darrell Johnson is behind the plate, Gene Freese is at third, Eddie Kasko at shortstop, and Hall of Famer Frank Robinson is in left. Moose Skowron is at bat with Bobby Richardson at second base. Yogi Berra is in the on deck circle.

[SparkyL]

Also, top left corner of the bleachers. First inning, so maybe people are still filing in?

The end support column makes for one large obstruction for that section.

[jimmyjimjimz]

A 19 year-old truck driver named Sal Durante is holding up the ball that Roger Maris has just hit for his 61st home run of 1961. The fans behind him don't yet know he's caught the ball, and they're searching for it on the floor where they think it landed.

Yeah, but did someone fall? Or are those people so stupid that they don't see there's a guy like 2 or 3 rows in front of them holding a baseball? And who carries soap around at a baseball game anyway?

[icee82]

There were 62,397 at Game 1 of the 1961 World Series.

[jimmyjimjimz]

There were 62,397 at Game 1 of the 1961 World Series.

ok, who asked you what the attendance was? I don't think anyone did.

[icee82]

jimmyjimjimz...do I detect some unresolved hostilities? All of us on the board are baseball enthusiasts and we love the game. I was posting the attendance for the game based on this question that was asked on the previous page. If you were offended by this post, please accept my heartfelt apology although frankly I am unsure as to what I am apologizing for. May you truly have a blessed day!

[jnakamura]

ok, who asked you what the attendance was? I don't think anyone did.

Someone did - which means you're wrong for the 453rd time this month.

[jimmyjimjimz]

They asked if the game was a sellout. They didn't ask for the attendance.

[soup]

ok, who asked you what the attendance was? I don't think anyone did.

chill out dude

[jnakamura]

They asked if the game was a sellout. They didn't ask for the attendance.

He asked if the game was a sellout, and the other poster answered the question with the attendance figure.

Do you understand that? Do you understand anything? Or are you just trying really hard to be the most annoying and disruptive member of this site? If you don't have a life, fine, but can you try and find one somewhere else?

[jimmyjimjimz]

He asked if the game was a sellout, and the other poster answered the question with the attendance figure.

Do you understand that? Do you understand anything? Or are you just trying really hard to be the most annoying and disruptive member of this site?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I just love it

[locke40]

The end support column makes for one large obstruction for that section.

You got that right.

55411

[SparkyL]

You got that right.

WOW - I've never seen this shot (very nice) . . . it's worse then I ever imagined . . almost as bad at the CF restuarant :shhh:

[alpineinc]

October 1963 - Game 6 that never was - Dodgers wrapped it up in LA, winning 4 straight, and a Dodger fan gloats in front of the famous facade.

http://72.37.159.45/App_Themes/Images/Auctions_Images/405/popups/26886.jpg

[GordonGecko]

WOW - I've never seen this shot (very nice) . . . it's worse then I ever imagined . . almost as bad at the CF restuarant :shhh:

Yeah but check out the freggin' detail on that support beam. That one 85 year old column is a million times more aesthetically valuable than anything HOK will ever manage to build in their entire existence

[stadiumbuilder]

October 1963 - Game 6 that never was - Dodgers wrapped it up in LA, winning 4 straight, and a Dodger fan gloats in front of the famous facade.

http://72.37.159.45/App_Themes/Images/Auctions_Images/405/popups/26886.jpg

If that's 1963, where's the light tower? The tower for the right side infield should be sitting up there, almost directly behind him. And that car is kinda outdated, even for '63.

[SparkyL]

Yeah but check out the freggin' detail on that support beam. That one 85 year old column is a million times more aesthetically valuable than anything HOK will ever manage to build in their entire existence

True indeed. Also, I believe that the actual support beam was the same as the rest of the beams and the ends were wrapped in orimental iron/copper (along with the ornimental metal-work at the ends of the upper and middle decks).

[SparkyL]

If that's 1963, where's the light tower? The tower for the right side infield should be sitting up there, almost directly behind him. And that car is kinda outdated, even for '63.

The light towers nearest home plate were the shortest, so perhaps they are not visible in this shot.

Anyone know if the "YANKEE STADIUM" letters on the upper exterior facade were installed before or after the lights (or at the same time)?

[Aviator_Frank]

That first light bank was just where the stadium started to straighten out - probably right where the marquee is. Granted it's low slung (the 2 infield banks are the lowest in height) and the photo itself is at a low angle so it may be just below the horizon so to speak.

[stlfan]

I think you'd be able to see the light standards if they were there. You can see the tops of the flag poles that ring the top of the frieze.

[soup]

I think you'd be able to see the light standards if they were there. You can see the tops of the flag poles that ring the top of the frieze.

well they obviously are. Look at the vehicle and you know it's at least past the late 40's....and the Yankee Stadium letters were a '50s addition.

[Gary Dunaier]

Look at the vehicle and you know it's at least past the late 40's....and the Yankee Stadium letters were a '50s addition.

The age of the car doesn't mean anything. Maybe the owner was frugal and felt that as long as the car was in working order he didn't need to get a newer model.

It's entirely reasonable that there would still be some cars from the early 1950s, or even the late 1940s, on the road back then.

[Aviator_Frank]

It's hard to tell, but it looks like a couple of flagpoles are missing just to the left of the marquee - which would indicate a light bank there. They didn't have poles where the lights were. Plus, it looks like there's something just at the top of the stadium right where that bank would be and the angle of the photographer just barely clipped it.

[DGDGBD]

Wednesday is correct for when Game 6 of the 1963 WS would have been played (Oct 9th). From looking at other photos, i think the lights could have been just off the right side of the picture.

[RichardLillard1]

I've seen that picture somewhere before, I know I have.

I didn't see it on Corbis (its a shame to, 78 pages of pictures and I'm getting a headache), but I'll keep looking.

Not only have I seen it before, but I know that where I saw it had a detailed explanation of where and when it was taken and what was going on in the picture.


Richard

[DiggerODell]

October 1963 - Game 6 that never was - Dodgers wrapped it up in LA, winning 4 straight, and a Dodger fan gloats in front of the famous facade.

http://72.37.159.45/App_Themes/Images/Auctions_Images/405/popups/26886.jpg

Heck I'm cookin a cajun dish tonight what calls for wine (i drank the balance of the bottle) and am listening to Chris Rea's "On the Beach" am feelin good and if were 2012, I'd nominate JimmyJimJimz for President of the United States! And I even feel this Dodgers fans joy in the shot . .though I despise and loath LA and even anybody's grandma from LA and hate, which sounds more passionate than loath (the Dodgers post '57, mind you) I give him his do's . .and wish I'd have seen the park when he did. So give it up folks . . .and I mean this . . not being condensending nor patronizing whatsoever . . . give it up for Jimmy . . . OK . . . perhaps in 2016.

[DiggerODell]

Pave parisdise, put up a parking lot.

[alpineinc]

I've seen that picture somewhere before, I know I have.

I didn't see it on Corbis (its a shame to, 78 pages of pictures and I'm getting a headache), but I'll keep looking.

Not only have I seen it before, but I know that where I saw it had a detailed explanation of where and when it was taken and what was going on in the picture.


Richard

Old Lelands Auction.

"1963 World Series & Yankee Stadium Façade Original Negative -
Wonderful outdoor shot of the Yankee Stadium façade after the Dodgers beat Yankees in the World Series. Entitled “Wait Till Next Year” by the accompanying article, Dodger fan Martin Goodman points derisively at Yankee Stadium sign advertising the World Series game that wouldn’t be held. Sandy Koufax and the Dodgers "moidered" the Yankees four straight to make the return to NY moot. 2.25” and in original envelope."

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=1355&auctionid=405

[GordonGecko]

Old Lelands Auction.

"1963 World Series & Yankee Stadium Façade Original Negative -
Wonderful outdoor shot of the Yankee Stadium façade after the Dodgers beat Yankees in the World Series. Entitled “Wait Till Next Year” by the accompanying article, Dodger fan Martin Goodman points derisively at Yankee Stadium sign advertising the World Series game that wouldn’t be held. Sandy Koufax and the Dodgers "moidered" the Yankees four straight to make the return to NY moot. 2.25” and in original envelope."

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=1355&auctionid=405

Is that wide-ranging baseball knowledge or mad google image searching skills? :)

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Is that wide-ranging baseball knowledge or mad google image searching skills? :)

With Alpine, likely it's a bit of both.:cap:

[alpineinc]

Is that wide-ranging baseball knowledge or mad google image searching skills? :)

With Alpine, likely it's a bit of both.:cap:

I think it's more like wide-ranging madness - lol!

Actually Google Image runs dry pretty fast. As I'm sure MM knows, you have to look in deeper corners of the net - online auctions, museum collections, periodicals. It's getting more and more difficult though, let me tell you!

[jimmyjimjimz]

Heck I'm cookin a cajun dish tonight what calls for wine (i drank the balance of the bottle) and am listening to Chris Rea's "On the Beach" am feelin good and if were 2012, I'd nominate JimmyJimJimz for President of the United States! And I even feel this Dodgers fans joy in the shot . .though I despise and loath LA and even anybody's grandma from LA and hate, which sounds more passionate than loath (the Dodgers post '57, mind you) I give him his do's . .and wish I'd have seen the park when he did. So give it up folks . . .and I mean this . . not being condensending nor patronizing whatsoever . . . give it up for Jimmy . . . OK . . . perhaps in 2016.

1. I'm a democrat. Why would I wanna run against Obama for president in 4 years if we're part of the same party?

2. I'm not old enough to be president. I'm 25 years old. Don't you gotta be at least in your 40's to run for president?

[GordonGecko]

I will watch a baseball game after the new president is in the house painted white and have a party with chips and pretzels

[Gary Dunaier]

I will watch a baseball game after the new president is in the house painted white and have a party with chips and pretzels

I know Charles "Chips" Chippermann and Irving "Pretzels" Pretzelstein. They never said anything about partying with you. :dismay:

[stadiumbuilder]

1. I'm a democrat. Why would I wanna run against Obama for president in 4 years if we're part of the same party?

2. I'm not old enough to be president. I'm 25 years old. Don't you gotta be at least in your 40's to run for president?
You need to be born here and of at least 35 years of age, as stated in the US constitution. They used to teach that in school when it mattered.

[jimmyjimjimz]

You need to be born here and of at least 35 years of age, as stated in the US constitution. They used to teach that in school when it mattered.

Well, I was born here

and I knew there was an age restriction

but I didnt know what it was

I always thought it was 40 or 45

[monkeypants]

So, Triple-J is a Democrat. That says something about something, I'm sure.

[jimmyjimjimz]

So, Triple-J is a Democrat. That says something about something, I'm sure.

How hard is it to understand that I don't like being called "Triple J"?

and what does me being a democrat say something about?

what? I don't support war?

Just to let you all know, my grandfather was in the army. He fought in the Korean war. He was the most patriotic person I know, and, guess what? He was a democrat. So if you're saying democrats aren't patriotic, you don't know what you're talking about.

[soup]

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=40ebbd6986adc0bf_landing
September 28th, 1955

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=600e56cca177202b_large
Fans ready to see New York vs Cincinnati at Yankee Stadium for second game of World Series. 10/61

[DGDGBD]

and what does me being a democrat say something about?

what? I don't support war?

Just to let you all know, my grandfather was in the army. He fought in the Korean war. He was the most patriotic person I know, and, guess what? He was a democrat. So if you're saying democrats aren't patriotic, you don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah, you told him! How dare he question your patriotism....oh wait...he didn't....nevermind.

[jnakamura]

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=600e56cca177202b_large
Fans ready to see New York vs Cincinnati at Yankee Stadium for second game of World Series. 10/61

The old days were bizarre. Looks like 80% of the men are wearing coats and ties. What % would that be today? Less than 1%? I think this is due to the invention of Nachos in the 1970's. No one wants nacho cheese sauce on their tie anymore.

[SparkyL]

The old days were bizarre. Looks like 80% of the men are wearing coats and ties. What % would that be today? Less than 1%? I think this is due to the invention of Nachos in the 1970's. No one wants nacho cheese sauce on their tie anymore.

Yeah, but notice that no one is on their cells or blackberrys either (yes - not invented yet . . ) - they are actually watching the game.

[monkeypants]

Yeah, you told him! How dare he question your patriotism....oh wait...he didn't....nevermind.

I only get to see Jx3's comments when someone else quotes them, because he long ago went on the ignore list. But he can rest assured that I was not question Democrats' patriotism. However, if J^3 represents the average level of enlightenment, intellectual prowess, and articulation of the typical Democrat...

[monkeypants]

Yeah, but notice that no one is on their cells or blackberrys either (yes - not invented yet . . ) - they are actually watching the game.

You mean they didn't need a Martini Bar or sports restaurant, or hi-def scoreboard????

[jimmyjimjimz]

I only get to see Jx3's comments when someone else quotes them, because he long ago went on the ignore list. But he can rest assured that I was not question Democrats' patriotism. However, if J^3 represents the average level of enlightenment, intellectual prowess, and articulation of the typical Democrat...

ok, so now youre trying to be a racist? Dude, I'm half Irish and half Italian. And, you shouldn't be looking at people because of the color of their skin.



You mean they didn't need a Martini Bar or sports restaurant, or hi-def scoreboard????

Actually, to keep up with the times, yes they do.

[mrakbaseball]

However, if J^3 represents the average level of enlightenment, intellectual prowess, and articulation of the typical Democrat...

Baseball Fever isn't the forum, however JJJ, notwithstanding, dangerously ignorant and intellectually incurious are the other guys. i.e, #43, caribou barbie, etc.

[monkeypants]

Baseball Fever isn't the forum, however JJJ, notwithstanding, dangerously ignorant and intellectually incurious are the other guys.

I'm not precisely sure what this means.

However, if I am being called out for saying that J-J-J is not all that bright, I apologize for doing so. This thread is not the place to call further attention to his/her inane comments. I'm sorry, and I will not again make specific comments on Triple-J's various absurd and ignorant posts.

[Gary Dunaier]

Are we talking about the same JJJ who, for all these years, has written countless editorials attacking Spider-Man?????

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/vol/3000/2127/2127-7834-1-amazing-spider-man-_400.jpg

:highfive:

[tugger]

Only the hardest heart is not broken by this shot:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/3044094815_96135e1d04_o.png

Babe, waiting in the dugout before saying farewell to the fans at Yankee Stadium one last time, June 13, 1948.

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

Only the hardest heart is not broken by this shot:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/3044094815_96135e1d04_o.png

Babe, waiting in the dugout before saying farewell to the fans at Yankee Stadium one last time, June 13, 1948.

You can still feel the power exuding from the Man just sitting there. A YS moment unequalled except by the Gherig speech.

[monkeypants]

Baseball Fever isn't the forum, however JJJ, notwithstanding, dangerously ignorant and intellectually incurious are the other guys. i.e, #43, caribou barbie, etc.

Ah, I see a little better now that you have edited your post. You're right, both sides of the aisle have lots of folks every bit as ignorant and incurious as Triple-J.

[monkeypants]

Only the hardest heart is not broken by this shot:


Babe, waiting in the dugout before saying farewell to the fans at Yankee Stadium one last time, June 13, 1948.

Yeah, that's a tough one.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

You can still feel the power exuding from the Man just sitting there. A YS moment unequalled except by the Gherig speech.

It was certainly a tough day for The Babe. Weak and near the end, he needed some help to put on his uniform.
Even standing for any length of time was difficult. It was suggested that he be placed in a wheel chair to make his way from the dugout to the playing field.
Happy to say he passed on the wheel chair and in his farewell he stood on the field supported by the instrument that we associate him with, the bat.
Many may know but for those who do not, the bat he used for support was borrowed from Bob Feller.

[jimmyjimjimz]

It was certainly a tough day for The Babe. Weak and near the end, he needed some help to put on his uniform.
Even standing for any length of time was difficult. It was suggested that he be placed in a wheel chair to make his way from the dugout to the playing field.
Happy to say he passed on the wheel chair and in his farewell he stood on the field supported by the instrument that we associate him with, the bat.
Many may know but for those who do not, the bat he used for support was borrowed from Bob Feller.

I knew it was Bob Feller's bat

but wasn't Bob Feller a pitcher?

if there was no interleague play till 1997, why would a pitcher in the american league need his own bat?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I knew it was Bob Feller's bat

but wasn't Bob Feller a pitcher?

if there was no interleague play till 1997, why would a pitcher in the american league need his own bat?

You must be aware there was no DH in 1948, pitchers actually batted back then.

[SparkyL]

I knew it was Bob Feller's bat

but wasn't Bob Feller a pitcher?

if there was no interleague play till 1997, why would a pitcher in the american league need his own bat?

You're kidding, right? Do you think that Ban Johnson instituted the DH?

[jimmyjimjimz]

You're kidding, right? Do you think that Ban Johnson instituted the DH?

I don't know who that is, but I know Bon Scott used to be the singer for AC/DC, but he died. And the new singer of AC/DC sort of has the same name as Ban Johnson too. His name is Brian Johnson.


You must be aware there was no DH in 1948, pitchers actually batted back then.

Oh. Thanks for being nice to me and clarifying that, unlike SOMEONE ELSE who has to freak out over NOTHING.

And now, I have a question.

Why did they create the DH?

[monkeypants]

You must be aware there was no DH in 1948, pitchers actually batted back then.

Must he?

Hey, at least he knew Feller was a pitcher, so all old-time baseball lore has not been lost! Seriously though, that is why I have become so addicted to this site. There is some great historical information woven into these threads.

[tugger]

Ban Johnson was the founder of the American League.

The DH was introduced in the AL in 1973 to reward incompetence. Pitchers who could handle the bat and sluggers who worked on their fielding gave their teams way too much of an advantage.

[Sean O]

Ban Johnson was the founder of the American League.

The DH was introduced in the AL in 1973 to reward incompetence. Pitchers who could handle the bat and sluggers who worked on their fielding gave their teams way too much of an advantage.

I, personally, love spending $70 on tickets to see a pitcher stand at the back corner of the box to take 3 straight strikes.

[tugger]

I, personally, love spending $70 on tickets to see a pitcher stand at the back corner of the box to take 3 straight strikes.
Heck of a lot more action for your buck at Ultimate Fighting.

[Sean O]

Heck of a lot more action for your buck at Ultimate Fighting.

I'm just saying, the essence of baseball is pitcher vs. hitter. Pitcher versus someone who has zero ability as a hitter isn't interesting. You may as well randomly decide that some guy in the stands gets to take swings.

If pitchers could, as a whole, hit at least .200 I'd feel differently. But last year there were 10 pitchers with at least 50 ABs (or, slightly fewer than 2 per start) with a .200 or higher BA.

No DH = worse baseball. Instead of the best vs. the best, you have crappy matchups, every 9 spots, and a greater chance of the 12th guy in the bullpen trying to win the game. Scintillating.

[monkeypants]

I, personally, love spending $70 on tickets to see a pitcher stand at the back corner of the box to take 3 straight strikes.

Cause or effect? Pitchers, while never good hitters (usually) have become much worse because of the adoption of the DH at nearly every level of nearly every league. Eliminate the DH and the hitting ability of pitchers would improve overall.

[Sean O]

Cause or effect? Pitchers, while never good hitters (usually) have become much worse because of the adoption of the DH at nearly every level of nearly every league. Eliminate the DH and the hitting ability of pitchers would improve overall.

Show me the stats that pre-DH pitchers hit better, please.

[tugger]

Start the DH in 1900 and Babe never takes a swing.

[monkeypants]

Show me the stats that pre-DH pitchers hit better, please.

Ask and ye shall receive. I only calculated the last five years for post-DH, and I only report the aves for 1956-1972 (the only stats available on Baseball-reference.com). I also included the batting averages for 1B as a comparison, to take into account (roughly) the offensive environment for the league. The numbers *seem* to show that pitchers now bat somewhat worse than they did in the pre-DH days, and about 16 points worse (average 1956-1972 v. 2004-2008)) relative than the average 1B.

So, I would conclude that pitchers were always bad, but that they have gotten relative worse worse as hitters since the DH. It's too bad that I cannot access the stats for before 1956, since they may indicate a longer term decline in pitcher hitting, which may indicate that such a decline in batting skill is partially independent of the DH rule.

The numbers:

Year Bat Ave (P) Bat Ave (1B) difference
2008 0.139 0.272 0.133
2007 0.146 0.276 0.130
2006 0.131 0.285 0.154 Average P 0.141
2005 0.148 0.276 0.128 Average 1B 0.277
2004 0.143 0.274 0.131 Average Dif 0.135