What's the scoop on this Dodger game photo?

[Todd Anderson]

Greetings, O Most Wise Dodger Faithful! :bowdown:

I stumbled across this photo which my mom labeled with her typewriter: ACTION GAME BETWEEN DODGERS AND GIANTS. Not sure if she was right about the title when she typed it.

Since most of you already know I never saw any of these games (wasn't born yet), I wondered if the photo contained anything interesting or significant. Almost every fan is on their feet in anticipation of the play. Makes me wanna know what the heck I'm witnessing! (Don't you love how nicely dressed/tailored everyone was? Can you imagine walking into a park back THEN wearing what many wear TODAY? Hoo, boy!)

Thought I'd throw out some questions, just in case someone wants to field them. You can respond ONLY as time allows. No rush. I was just curious. Here we go with my pointy-headed questions:

- Is this Ebbets Field I'm looking at?
- Where in the wide of sports is the third base DUGOUT? Can't see it anywhere!
- What's that LARGE box-like structure in the upper left-hand corner? Looks like it's suspended from the upper deck. Perhaps it's a Press Box?
- To that left and right of that same LARGE box are two SMALLER platforms, which appear to have photographers perched on 'em. Is that right?
- Were the banners something that were consistently hung to dress up the park?
- Anyone recognize the players? Can't tell if it's my dad sprawled out on the ground between third and home. Don't think so, but who knows.
- Can anyone figure out who the Dodgers runners are? One is almost to home, the other has just rounded third (looks like, anyway).
- Guess that's a policeman seated in front of the bleachers? Bet he enjoyed his job!

Many thanks for your patience AND for your consideration in checking out this shot. If my dad were still alive, I'd harass him instead of you nice folks who were fortunate enough to see things like this! :happy:

Respectfully,
Todd (Anderson)
Andy's #3 son

[metfan13]

To answer one, it wouldn't be your Dad on the ground since the Dodgers are the are the baserunners and the Giants are in the field.

Also the 3B dugout would be off to the bottom left, follow the dirt path, probably just out of view to the left,

[Todd Anderson]

Thanks, Metfan. Never thought of that.
Plus, the dugout....seems like most are further down the line. I had no idea it would be that far back...or at least what SEEMS further back.
Many thanks!
Todd

[metfan13]

Thanks, Metfan. Never thought of that.
Plus, the dugout....seems like most are further down the line. I had no idea it would be that far back...or at least what SEEMS further back.
Many thanks!
Todd


No problem, I love looking at old photos and trying to figure out what's going on.

By the bunting I'd say it's either a holiday or maybe even game 1 of the 3 game 51 playoff. Does anyone have a boxscore from that game?

[musial6]

I'm just guessing, but number 4 looks like Eddie Waitkus to me. If it is Eddie, the overcoats and the bunting tell me it's Opening Day, 1951. I was there and I can recall its being very cold.

[musial6]

I take it back. The uniform numbers don't compute. Number 15 for the Phils was Jackie Mayo, an OUTFIELDER, while # 20 was Phil Haugstad, an obscure Dodger pitcher.

[musial6]

To answer one, it wouldn't be your Dad on the ground since the Dodgers are the are the baserunners and the Giants are in the field.

Also the 3B dugout would be off to the bottom left, follow the dirt path, probably just out of view to the left,


I don't think it's the Giants in the field. Mel Ott wore # 4.

[dodger dynamo]

mel ott was a player manager during the era the picture is from, whether it's him or not you just can't tell. If so he may not have played that day, he could be coming out to make sure they get the call right. It could have been a double steal 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to home. the dodgers are in white the opposing team in grey obviously a home game for the brooks. blew the picture up, too blurry to say, but it does look like the giants. more than likely your mom wouldn't have saved it unless it had something to do with your dad. I know often before the season officially started they would play an exhibition game. dodgers and yanks did this often. If the war was going on, it could have been something to do with that, which would explain bunting for out of the ordinary reasons. I was born in 39 so, it's a little before me. battlin bake the dodger dynamo

[musial6]

mel ott was a player manager during the era the picture is from, whether it's him or not you just can't tell. If so he may not have played that day, he could be coming out to make sure they get the call right. It could have been a double steal 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to home. the dodgers are in white the opposing team in grey obviously a home game for the brooks. blew the picture up, too blurry to say, but it does look like the giants. more than likely your mom wouldn't have saved it unless it had something to do with your dad. I know often before the season officially started they would play an exhibition game. dodgers and yanks did this often. If the war was going on, it could have been something to do with that, which would explain bunting for out of the ordinary reasons. I was born in 39 so, it's a little before me. battlin bake the dodger dynamo

#4 SEEMS to have a glove on his right hand. Ottie batted lefty but threw righty. Plus, I've never seen any manager come THAT close to the action to verify a call.
I think the secret to the photo is the identities of #s 15 and 20.

[musial6]

If it is 1946 and the Dodgers are at bat, then #20 is the one and only RALPH BRANCA.

[musial6]

The only NL infielders, catchers , or pitchers to wear # 15 in 1946 were the following:

Dick Mauney, Phils
Elbie Fletcher, Pirates
Elmer Singleton, Braves
Bob Brady, Braves
Buddy Blattner, Giants
Lew Riggs, Dodgers.

[metfan13]

The fielder at 3B sure looks like he has New York on the front of his jersey.

[Todd Anderson]

All I need is popcorn and I'd have it made, watching you guys provide such interesting observations! You folks know your stuff. Thanks for your ongoing comments!
Todd

[dodger dynamo]

todd could the runner be your dad? looks as though the runner is going to be out, but your dad scored 19 runs that year. hey number 4 has a glove on and is apparently left handed, which means he was in the game, probably an infielder, from the angle maybe first base. does this help any body?. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[musial6]

I'm ready to eliminate 1946. I could find no left-handed first basemen in the NL who wore #4. Ray Sanders of the Braves wore # 4, but he was right handed.
Incidentally, Billy Cox, then with the Pirates, wore # 4 and played SS.

[metfan13]

OK some more facts as we try to pull this together.

Ott threw righthanded. Can't tell 100% that that's a glove on the right hand or not. BUT, it can't be Mel Ott and Ferrel Anderson because Ott did not play 1B or 3B in a game in 1946.

[EdTarbusz]

OK some more facts as we try to pull this together.

Ott threw righthanded. Can't tell 100% that that's a glove on the right hand or not. BUT, it can't be Mel Ott and Ferrel Anderson because Ott did not play 1B or 3B in a game in 1946.

The last time Ott played the infield was in 1944. Maybe the photo was taken after Ott left the Giants and was replaced by Durocher.

With all the bunting up, maybe this took place during WWII.

[metfan13]

The last time Ott played the infield was in 1944. Maybe the photo was taken after Ott left the Giants and was replaced by Durocher.

When was Ott's number retired?

[EdTarbusz]

When was Ott's number retired?

I don't know. Maybe someone else knows if any Giant wore it after Ott.

[metfan13]

I don't know. Maybe someone else knows if any Giant wore it after Ott.

OK, I just looked at the Giant rosters from 1947 - 1957. No #4 after Ott.

[musial6]

Ottie's # was retired in 1949.

[musial6]

No Giant ever wore # 4 after Ott.

[metfan13]

Ottie's # was retired in 1949.

Thanks. So it MUST be Ott. And he must have been playing 3rd and that can't be a glove on his right hand.

[dodger dynamo]

ok, here's my last gasp at 46. ott only played 31 games in 46, so he was only managing in most of the others. no. 15 on the 46 roster was buddy blattner an in fielder, which would explain him covering the plate. no. four looked as though he's coming in to look at the call from the right. 1946 was the first season after the war. bunting may have been used more often to celebrate. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[dodger dynamo]

here's some more info, first game in ebbets field 1946 was against the giants, dodgers won 8-1. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[musial6]

From 1941-1947, Ott played a TOTAL of FIVE games at 3B ( one in '43 and four in 1944). He never played 1B in the majors.

In 1943, the only Giant to wear #15 was Cliff Melton, a pitcher. In 1944, the only Giant to wear #15 was Rube Fischer, also a pitcher.

Further, the only Dodger to wear #20 in 1943 was Al Glossop, an outfiekder.

In 1944, two Dodgers wore #20, pitcher Charlie Osgood (who never batted in the majors) and pitcher Tommy Warren.

[musial6]

ok, here's my last gasp at 46. ott only played 31 games in 46, so he was only managing in most of the others. no. 15 on the 46 roster was buddy blattner an in fielder, which would explain him covering the plate. no. four looked as though he's coming in to look at the call from the right. 1946 was the first season after the war. bunting may have been used more often to celebrate. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo


Buddy Blattner is still alive. Todd should track him down.

[musial6]

here's some more info, first game in ebbets field 1946 was against the giants, dodgers won 8-1. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

Vic Lombardi started and won that game. Did Branca relieve late in what was a shutout into the ninth?

[bobw357]

Could it be 1942 as it looks like there is a "Health" patch on the sleeve of the runner. #20 would be Larry French and #15 would be Cliff Melton

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/bobw_photos/p1.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/bobw_photos/lf.jpg

[metfan13]

Nice effort on that, but...

Doesn't look like the same patch. The one in the picture seems to only have the upper left corner a darker color and seems to have more a a cross in the middle.

As to 46, no. Almost certian Ott couldn't have been there watching the action. Didn't play any games in the IF.

[donzblock]

If we keep blowing up pictures, we may discover a murder being committed. If the victim is the Brooklyn Dodgers, the odds are that the perpetrator will be O'Malley, not Moses.

[metfan13]

I'm back at a late 30's or 1940 opening series game against the Giants. Would explain the bunting on the stands and Ott being down the line from 3B. Cliff Melton then is likely #15.

Can we get some pics of Ebbets from that angle that are positively dated? I was looking at a small on in the OUR Ebbets thread. Similar angle but I didn't see that big box hanging from teh upper deck. Was from the late 30's I think.

[metfan13]

This photo for instance from the other thread identifies it as opening day 1939.
It doesn't match our other pic as the bunting is different and I don't see that box hanging. The field does look similar (no addiiton dirt cutouts on the grasss for pitchers to warm up or coaches to hit fungoes.

http://www.markreubengallery.com/stadiums/stadium_images/0090big.jpg

[Todd Anderson]

WOW! You guys must work for the CIA! haha Great investigative work. Loved donz comment about O'Malley! Whatta hoot!

Hey, who's the guy with NO number on his back? The batboy?

I can scan this photo and send a hi-=res jpeg to anyone requesting it. Just PM me with your email address and I'll send it. I'll keep the file below 10mb to make sure it arrives. By having a sharper image of the photo, maybe you guys can figure things out better. Just a thought. Great comments, gang!

At your service,
Todd

[Todd Anderson]

Any thoughts on my questions about the structure of the park? The boxes in the top of the photo? Anyone know if those are press boxes? Plus, are those photogaphers way up there on those platforms? One looks like he is taking a movie. Didn't know they normally did that.

I didn't see any photographers on the field. I recall old photos.....seeing them hustle up and snap shots at home during critical plays. When did they quit that practice, I wonder?

I'll shut up and listen now. ;c)
Todd

[metfan13]

OK, looks like the Dodgers home opener was always against the Giants. So looking at years when Ott played any games in the infield it gives us 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1943, 1944

And 44 was only a couple of games. I do like the war years as a possibility for a special patch.

Tood I'll send you my email address. This is interesting.

[musial6]

O.k., IF #4 is Ott, and IF it is the home opener, and IF it's Ebbets Field, then it's April 22, 1938. (Ottie STARTED only one season at third--1938.) That would make #15 Slick Castleman and #20 Ernie Koy. I'm done.

[Ubiquitous]

The NY Times for the April 22nd game doesn't mention anything like this and the pitcher wasn't Castleman that day but #10 Gumbert.

[Ubiquitous]

If it is the Giants then the game has to have taken place between 1937 and 1944. #15 could be Castleman in 1937, 1938, and 1939. Cliff Melton for 1940-1943, and Rube Fisher for 1944.

There were no opening days at Brooklyn that featured Castleman, Melton, or Fischer as the starter.

[musial6]

If it is the Giants then the game has to have taken place between 1937 and 1944. #15 could be Castleman in 1937, 1938, and 1939. Cliff Melton for 1940-1943, and Rube Fisher for 1944.

There were no opening days at Brooklyn that featured Castleman, Melton, or Fischer as the starter.

Before we eliminate April 22 1938, we should check the box score. Maybe Castleman relieved.

Again, Ott started ONLY one season at third--1938.

[Ubiquitous]

Found it. It is April 22, 1943. It is the 7th inning and the runner is Walker. The catcher is Poland, Sid Gordon is the third basemen, and Melton is the pitcher. Mel Ott played right field and he fielded Herman's single. Threw home and caught Walker in a round down with Camilli siting on third. Poland dropped the ball, Godron picked it up and threw home in time but the ump called interference on Poland so the run counted. #20 is Al Glossop.

[Ubiquitous]

Before we eliminate April 22 1938, we should check the box score. Maybe Castleman relieved.

Again, Ott started ONLY one season at third--1938.

I did, Gumbert threw a complete game, and as it turns out Ott was playing right field and ran in when this play happened.

[musial6]

I did, Gumbert threw a complete game, and as it turns out Ott was playing right field and ran in when this play happened.


Well done!

[Todd Anderson]

Amazing! They oughta let YOU FOLKS monitor the middle east for WMD's! haha

GREAT JOB! For the life of me, I can't understand why my mom had this picture in with her other photos. Heck, my dad wasn't even a Dodger at that point—might have even been in the Army at that point. No matter. After a lifetime of staring at this, it's tremendous to have it secrets revealed. You get an "attaboy!" WELL DONE!

Respectfully,
Todd (Anderson)
Andy's #3 son

[Dodgerfan1]

Okay, so based on Ubiquitous’ scenario, we are looking at the aftermath of Ott’s throw to the plate, after having fielded Herman’s single, which is evidently a rundown between third base and home plate. According to Ubi’s account, the Giant catcher, Hugh Poland, (on the ground) was involved in the rundown and Giants' pitcher Cliff Melton (#15) is covering the plate. Ott obviously followed his throw to the plate, as he is seen running toward the plate from the right side of the diamond. Since Todd’s picture is obviously a continuation of the close-up that Ubi provided, that is Sid Gordon to the right of catcher Poland, having just thrown the ball home to Melton in time to get Dixie Walker (In Ubi’s picture, Gordon appears to be picking up the ball just prior to throwing it). The Dodgers’ Al Glossop is #20, holding a couple of bats and pointing. I would assume the person in the un-numbered uniform is the Brooklyn bat boy, as he is near a bat that was dropped, evidently by Herman. The Dodger running behind Walker must be the third base coach and the Giant standing at third base may be shortstop Billy Jurges, since Sid Gordon is already accounted for. Ubi has also accounted for Dolf Camilli, who is the Dodger runner who has rounded third base. Excellent work, UBI!!

[musial6]

Remember how they used to refer to Sid Gordon as having the biggest forearms in baseball?

[musial6]

And the shortest foreskin!

[Dodgerfan1]

Interesting to note the position of the home plate umpire. He's right there ready to make the call. Talk about being right in the middle of the action!!

[dodger dynamo]

glad it's solved, now if we only had film. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[metfan13]

Great job guys. What's the chances of having two pictures taken so close together.

And nice hustle by Ott coming all the way in from RF.

[Todd Anderson]

What great detective work and commentary. A great privilege to sit and watch this unfold.

Hey, I'm guessing that this pic was shot by another photographer who was on a platform...like the one on the opposite side? Does anyone know if these platform gizmos were home to photo-journalists each game? And does anyone [who knows Ebbets] know what the heck that caboose-size box is attached to the upper deck? Is their an organist in there or something? And were both dugouts BACK closer toward home back then?

Thanks again group for fielding my questions. I bow in your direction!....
Todd

[Dodgerfan1]

What great detective work and commentary. A great privilege to sit and watch this unfold.

Hey, I'm guessing that this pic was shot by another photographer who was on a platform...like the one on the opposite side? Does anyone know if these platform gizmos were home to photo-journalists each game? And does anyone [who knows Ebbets] know what the heck that caboose-size box is attached to the upper deck? Is their an organist in there or something? And were both dugouts BACK closer toward home back then?

Thanks again group for fielding my questions. I bow in your direction!....
Todd

Todd, it seems that those of us who have been following this thread are either disinclined to offer an answer to these questions or are unable to. I suspect the latter. Just a suggestion, you may want to ask this question on the 'Ballparks, Stadiums and Green Diamonds' thread and see if anyone there can assist.

[Todd Anderson]

Thanks Dodgerfan. Will do.
Todd