What can NL do to close the gap?

[NewEnglandAmazins]

After the Tigers-Marlins trade and Indians-Pirates discussing Jason Bay; it appears that some of the best young N.L talent is getting shipped off to the A.L at a higher rate than ever. The A.L is loaded as is.What can N.L do to close the gap?

[UnderPressure]

Get rid of the DH.

[TonyStarks]

Scout and Develop better pitchers :)

[The Fifties in my Sixties]

What does the AL have that the NL does not have?. Like it or not, for one the DH, it completly changes how a game is played, and managed. If your an older fan you are more then likely to go with the NL game, a younger fan, the AL game. Plus if you look at the teams with the really, really BIG money to spend, Yanks,Red Sox,Angels,Rangers,Tigers, etc, there in the AL.

[Knick9]

I would say eliminate the DH in the AL, but we know that won't happen anytime soon.

Personally, the NL teams need to stop being so cheap (Marlins...*cough*), grow a spine, and be willing to spend more often. Minor league talent evaluation is fine, but young players can only do so much until you figure out that they won't pan out.

Maybe there's just more into this as to why the AL wins the All-Star Game every year.

[KCGHOST]

The need to improve their farm systems to developing more good players. And then quit trading them to the AL.

[DoubleX]

I think part of the problem is that in the AL, teams are forced to keep pace with the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox. Their spending has a trickle down effect throughout the AL in that if 1) Forces other teams to spend like that to keep up; 2) Generates revenue through fan interest. In the NL, now that Bonds seems out of the picture, there really isn't a team that is anything close to being a draw like the Yankees and Red Sox are on the road. And I believe just having the Yankees and Red Sox around as competition, creates more interest for fans of other AL teams because there's just more buzz in general. NL teams on the other hand, just don't have the impetus to drive them to spend exorbitantly, because they can compete amonst themselves without such spending.

[Wade8813]

The NL needs to add the DH, and they need to spend more. The 2007 payrolls were noticably higher among AL teams than the NL teams. And it's that way for most of the league.

On the other hand, it IS possible to do well without a ridiculous payroll. But you have to do something that makes you more efficient than other teams who have a higher payroll. It's doable, but extremely difficult. Even the Yanks and Redsox look for deals - you have to somehow find better deals than everyone else.

[zemtech]

I am also in favor of eleminating the DH!!!!!!

[skyking162]

Using USAToday's salary tool, the average 2007 AL payroll was $93 million while the NL was at $74 million. $19 million would buy 4-5 wins on the free agent market.

The Marlins are not the problem. Sure, you'd like to see them spend a bit more money, but they're already a 75-80 win team, better than other NL clubs with ten times the payroll. If you're smart enough to be that good while spending peanuts, more power to you. Oh, and those two World Series rings show they know what they're doing, too.

It's the teams with larger payrolls and throw their money away that are the problem -- the Giants, Dodgers, Cardinals, Astros and to a lesser extent Cubs and Mets come to mind.

Notice where the 2007 playoff teams lie in the payroll rankings. Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels are the top three in the AL, but the Indians are second to last. In the NL, the Cubs were third, Phillies sixth (tight bunch 4th through 8th), the Rockies 12th and the Diamondbacks 13th. It's an advantage to have more money to spend, but there's a huge disparity between how well teams spend what they have.

A New York Yankees $189,639,045
A Boston Red Sox $143,026,214
A Los Angeles Angels $109,251,333
A Chicago White Sox $108,671,833
A Seattle Mariners $106,460,833
A Detroit Tigers $95,180,369
A Baltimore Orioles $93,554,808
A Toronto Blue Jays $81,942,800
A Oakland Athletics $79,366,940
A Minnesota Twins $71,439,500
A Texas Rangers $68,318,675
A Kansas City Royals $67,116,500
A Cleveland Indians $61,673,267
A Tampa Bay Devil Rays $24,123,500

N New York Mets $115,231,663
N Los Angeles Dodgers $108,454,524
N Chicago Cubs $99,670,332
N St. Louis Cardinals $90,286,823
N San Francisco Giants $90,219,056
N Philadelphia Phillies $89,428,213
N Houston Astros $87,759,000
N Atlanta Braves $87,290,833
N Milwaukee Brewers $70,986,500
N Cincinnati Reds $68,904,980
N San Diego Padres $58,110,567
N Colorado Rockies $54,424,000
N Arizona Diamondbacks $52,067,546
N Pittsburgh Pirates $38,537,833
N Washington Nationals $37,347,500
N Florida Marlins $30,507,000

[Ubiquitous]

What gap and why does it matter if there is a gap?

The NL has lots of young players and play an exciting game of baseball (For the record Jason Bay is not young, Willis is not great, Cabrera is legit but has weight issue). More people go to NL games on a per game basis (and overall of course because of the 16 team) then they go to AL games and it isn't even close.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How is eliminating the DH going to close the gap? The AL simply has more good players. In 2007 how many AL teams were better than the NL champion Rockies. I say at least five AL teams are better than the Rockies.

Red Sox
Yankees
Indians
Angels
Tigers

[MudvilleMike]

How is eliminating the DH going to close the gap? The AL simply has more good players. In 2007 how many AL were better than the NL champion D-Backs. I say at least five AL teams are better than the D-Backs.

Red Sox
Yankees
Indians
Angels
Tigers

Perhaps you were living in a parallel universe, but the Rockies were the NL Champions. :) That said, I agree the best five teams in baseball are in the AL, and that can't be a good thing.

I was very upset that the Rockies were too cheap to re-sign Kaz. With adequate management and modest spending, the Rockies could continue their recent success.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Perhaps you were living in a parallel universe, but the Rockies were the NL Champions. :) That said, I agree the best five teams in baseball are in the AL, and that can't be a good thing.

I was very upset that the Rockies were too cheap to re-sign Kaz. With adequate management and modest spending, the Rockies could continue their recent success.

Good catch! I apologize to the Rockies and Rockies' fans. I guess I was trapped with Lazarus in the anti-matter universe from Star Trek. :)

[mojorisin71]

Three of the last seven WS were won by NL teams. In the end, it all evens out.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Three of the last seven WS were won by NL teams. In the end, it all evens out.

Does the fact the Cardinals won the 2006 World Series mean they are one of the best teams? I think the 162 game regular season gives a more accurate gauge of how good a team is.

[mojorisin71]

Does the fact the Cardinals won the 2006 World Series mean they are one of the best teams? I think the 162 game regular season gives a more accurate gauge of how good a team is.

Was the NL in 2003 the better league because of the Tigers' 119-loss season? The WS is a small sample, but in the end, what you do in the regular season is irrelevant if you don't win it all.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Was the NL in 2003 the better league because of the Tigers' 119-loss season? The WS is a small sample, but in the end, what you do in the regular season is irrelevant if you don't win it all.

The regular season is not irrelevant. We are talking about the relative strength between the AL and NL. The World Series outcome really has no bearing in that regard since only one AL and one NL team are in the World Series and only one team wins the World Series every year. As for the Tigers it is relevant than they lost 119 games. They were the worse team in all of baseball in 2003. That is certainly a point against the AL. But to compare we need to to look at all the teams. Yes, the Tigers lost 119 games in 2003 but improved by 29 wins in 2004.

[brewcrew82]

Personally, the NL teams need to stop being so cheap (Marlins...*cough*), grow a spine, and be willing to spend more often. Minor league talent evaluation is fine, but young players can only do so much until you figure out that they won't pan out.

Maybe there's just more into this as to why the AL wins the All-Star Game every year.

It's all well and good to say that NL teams need to spend more money, but that doesn't mean that they'll spend it wisely and on more top level players. Chances are it'll just continue to drive up the salaries of the lower to mid-level player.

In the end it's all cyclical. The AL's run of dominance will end and eventually the NL will be the dominant league once again and we'll be having the same sort of discussion. This time it'll be "what can the AL do to close the gap?". Funnily enough, the leading response will probably be to abolish the DH. :shhh:

[cosmo34]

Just wait 15 years and we'll all be saying how dominant the NL is and the lowly AL needs to catchup. This is nothing but a cycle. You know, just like about everything else, it's all cycles.

[brewcrew82]

Just wait 15 years and we'll all be saying how dominant the NL is and the lowly AL needs to catchup. This is nothing but a cycle. You know, just like about everything else, it's all cycles.

Great minds think alike. :highfive:

[cosmo34]

Yes they do.

[NightHawks2007]

The need to improve their farm systems to developing more good players. And then quit trading them to the AL.

This is really the best way to say it. Right now, the AL has the better players.

[ElHalo]

Either the NL should just disband (or finally 'fess up and admit that it's really just another minor league), or that we should have something like they have in European football... you know, where every year the bottom couple of teams in the premiere league get kicked down to the next league, and the best teams in the minors get moved up? That way, teams like Tampa Bay and Baltimore could actually have something to compete for.

[Zagi-CRO]

The need to improve their farm systems to developing more good players. And then quit trading them to the AL.

:) Good!!

[Westlake]

Three of the last seven WS were won by NL teams. In the end, it all evens out.

And the AL has won 3 of the last 4, and swept their NL opponent in all 3 of 'em, that's a terrible way to analyze this. But i guess the Marlins winning the World Series in 2001 means there is no disparity between the leagues in 2007? Don't think so.

[brewcrew82]

But i guess the Marlins winning the World Series in 2001 means there is no disparity between the leagues in 2007? Don't think so.

Probably a typo on your part but it was Arizona winning in 2001 and the Marlins in 2003. :shhh:

:hide:

[cardsfanatic]

/shrugs

I still love the NL brand of baseball. Couldn't really care less if it's "inferior" at the moment. Besides, the NL has won 3 of the last seven World Series.... it can't be too bad, can it? I mean, sure, the Yankees really rattled off a bunch of rings in a row in the late 90's to really dogpile the NL's WS victories if you dig back further than seven years... but hell, _WHO_ was beating those Yankee teams, hmmm? I mean, the AL didn't fare to well versus them either.

I've always said the AL is better than the NL talent wise. Well, at least during my lifetime. For about 20 years, yes, the AL has had the better talent (which is what drives me up the wall when people compare Maddux to Clemens straight up -- Clemens had the much tougher row to ho in the AL, extremely so) but I don't see what the NL needs to change, honestly. The NL still has the ability to compete and they have proven such. They still have the ability to win a WS. Yet again, they've proven so recently. Star power doesn't exactly = World Title, just ask the Yankees since 2000. Besides, the NL still has quite a few stars. I mean, there's that guy playing first base for the St. Louis Cardinals who just might be the best player in the game... :)

[cardsfanatic]

And the AL has won 3 of the last 4, and swept their NL opponent in all 3 of 'em, that's a terrible way to analyze this. But i guess the Marlins winning the World Series in 2001 means there is no disparity between the leagues in 2007? Don't think so.

Isn't that essentially what the other side is doing? "The AL Has won blah-blah WS and AS games in the past so they > in 2008!" The NL _has_ competed with the AL recently. I don't see why four years ago is tangible yet seven years... no way!

[cardsfanatic]

Does the fact the Cardinals won the 2006 World Series mean they are one of the best teams? I think the 162 game regular season gives a more accurate gauge of how good a team is.

They were pretty good. I've heard that tired ol' schtick a million times before... do you not realize they basically had an offense of _ONLY_ Albert Pujols for 3/4ths of that season and that they didn't get fully healthy until the playoffs started? Their talent far exceeded their record, hoss.

[mojorisin71]

Either the NL should just disband (or finally 'fess up and admit that it's really just another minor league), or that we should have something like they have in European football... you know, where every year the bottom couple of teams in the premiere league get kicked down to the next league, and the best teams in the minors get moved up? That way, teams like Tampa Bay and Baltimore could actually have something to compete for.

That's partly the reason why my dad refused to watch American sports for a long time. He would always say that if the worst team in the league is rewarded with a high draft pick instead of being relegated to the second division, then what incentive is there to play hard? Or how do we know teams aren't tanking the season on purpose? Unfortunately, given the financial situation of each sports league, it's not going to happen.

By the way, the NL isn't a minor league. Three of the last seven WS have been won by the NL, and two of those came against the Yankees, remember?

[NewEnglandAmazins]

That's partly the reason why my dad refused to watch American sports for a long time. He would always say that if the worst team in the league is rewarded with a high draft pick instead of being relegated to the second division, then what incentive is there to play hard? Or how do we know teams aren't tanking the season on purpose? Unfortunately, given the financial situation of each sports league, it's not going to happen.

How a Promotion/Relegation system would be received here in the U.S.? Relegate the bottom third of MLB and Promote top third of Triple-A to create 4A...:crazy...I don't think it would fly. Might be an interesting experiment though.

[skyking162]

Isn't that essentially what the other side is doing? "The AL Has won blah-blah WS and AS games in the past so they > in 2008!" The NL _has_ competed with the AL recently. I don't see why four years ago is tangible yet seven years... no way!

That's not the argument at all. As you point out, the All-Star Game and World Series are too small of a sample size. A better group of games would be interleague records, but there have also been studies done comparing player performance when they change leagues.

[cardsfanatic]

That's not the argument at all. As you point out, the All-Star Game and World Series are too small of a sample size. A better group of games would be interleague records, but there have also been studies done comparing player performance when they change leagues.

Then honestly, speaking as a fan of the NL, why should I care if the AL is better if we're just talking about Interleague play? I don't particularly care, for instance, how the Cardinals did versus the AL in 2006 interleague play. I do care how they did versus the AL in the World Series. If you want me to admit the NL has better players... then I've said that LONG before it became the "cool" thing to say. Just look back at my posts on Fever... I've never denied that. However, to me, so long as my team has a shot in the WS, which they do, I couldn't really care less about the AL's star power. The only time the AL matters to me is that last series in October. I'm sure most NL fans feel that way.

[mojorisin71]

At the end of the day, people remember who won the World Series. They don't care which league finished with a better record in interleague play.

[rdonahue]

I am also in favor of eleminating the DH!!!!!!

So am I! Who needs it?

[Westlake]

Isn't that essentially what the other side is doing? "The AL Has won blah-blah WS and AS games in the past so they > in 2008!" The NL _has_ competed with the AL recently. I don't see why four years ago is tangible yet seven years... no way!

Yes, its exactly what the other side is doing... just using it as an example.