Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis

[tigers527]

Check this one out....

http://blog.mlive.com/cutoffman/2007/12/fox_sports_tigers_talking_mayb.html

Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and _____________. Now, that would be something if the Tigers pull this one off. I will not even bother putting a poll up for this one.

How about this line up, though.

Curtis Granderson CF
Placido Polanco 2B
Gary Sheffield DH
Magglio Ordonez RF
Miguel Cabrera 3B
Carlos Guillen 1B
Edgar Renteria SS
Ivan Rodriguez C
Jacques Jones LF

bench
Brandon Inge
Ramon Santiago
Vance Wilson/Mike Rabelo
Marcus Thames

Rotation
Kenny Rogers
Justin Verlander
Dontrelle Willis
Jeremy Bonderman
Nate Robertson/Yorman Bazardo

NICE! :D

[Dalkowski110]

Hmm...looks like the deal fell through. Apparently, the Marlins were trying to jack up the value of Cabrera for the Dodgers...

http://blog.mlive.com/tigersinsider/2007/12/update_on_the_cabrerawillis_fo.html

[tigers527]

Hmm...looks like the deal fell through. Apparently, the Marlins were trying to jack up the value of Cabrera for the Dodgers...

http://blog.mlive.com/tigersinsider/2007/12/update_on_the_cabrerawillis_fo.html

Well Bah HumBug to you too....just kidding ;) I saw that as well, but idk Ken Rosenthal or Danny Knobler? Which guy do you give more weight too?

Besides the whole "pumping up the asking price" thing has been the phrase dujour ever since the Johan BOS speculation?

BTW Omar Infante got shipped off to the ATL for a minor league reliever

[slugger33]

I would just take Willis as long as the Tigers were giving up either Maybin or Miller, but not both. Cabrera is fat. He will probably be a 1st baseman in the next couple years.

[Dalkowski110]

I'm wrong... :)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3140986&name=winter_meetings

[NightHawks2007]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7525396

Wow, if I thought you guys would get one or the other. But both... Dombrowski did something right here. The Tigers are making a statement in the AL. On paper they are in the top 3 teams in the league. Renteria, Jones, and now Cabrera and D-Train. Wow.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

The Tigres will get slightly less than they're expecting from Cabrera, but a lot more from Dontrelle.
Great move.

[doane]

How about this line up, though.

Curtis Granderson CF
Placido Polanco 2B
Gary Sheffield DH
Magglio Ordonez RF
Miguel Cabrera 3B
Carlos Guillen 1B
Edgar Renteria SS
Ivan Rodriguez C
Jacques Jones LF


I'm thinking something more like

Renteria
Polanco
Cabrera
Ordonez
Guillen
Sheffield
Granderson
Pudge
Jones/Thames

Renteria is a better fit for the top of the order and Granderson's extra-base power is a lot more valuable down in the lineup. Cabera is easily the best hitter, and Sheff is a good source of OBP down in the lineup in front of Granderson. Jones and Thames together just about make one left fielder.

Guillen and Sheff could go either way, but I think Guillen will start the season as the 5 hitter.

[slugger33]

Granderson
Polanco
Cabrera
Sheffield
Ordonez
Guillen
Renteria
Jones
Pudge

[PJ-34]

Pudge ninth?

[Westlake]

Check out some of these batting averages from last year...

Polanco - .341
Renteria - .332
Granderson - .302
Ordonez - .363
Cabrera - .320

[Boston Boxer]

I'm thinking something more like

Renteria
Polanco
Cabrera
Ordonez
Guillen
Sheffield
Granderson
Pudge
Jones/Thames

Renteria is a better fit for the top of the order and Granderson's extra-base power is a lot more valuable down in the lineup. Cabera is easily the best hitter, and Sheff is a good source of OBP down in the lineup in front of Granderson. Jones and Thames together just about make one left fielder.

Guillen and Sheff could go either way, but I think Guillen will start the season as the 5 hitter.

Damn, that line up is just sick...congrats to the Tigers.

[carta_411]

renteria
polanco
cabrera
sheffield
maggs
granderson
guillen
pudge
jones

this way granderson can benifit in the rib-eye dept, renteria is a proven leadoff hitter!! WOW what a line up!!:bowdown:

[tigers527]

I don't think you move Magglio out of the 4th spot...I also would be hard pressed to see Curtis moved out of the lead off spot, at least this year. I am sure that Jim Leyland is going through many a line up in his head already. Just as last year when the Tigers got Sheffield.

FYI one of the best things about this deal is both guys are here through 2009. And if they do leave as FAs after that, the Tigers get 4 first round draft picks.

Pitching
Verlander
Willis
Bonderman
Rogers
Robertson

Bullpen
Todd "Rollercoaster" Jones
Fernando Rodney
Tim Byrdak
Chad Durbin
Bobby Seay
Yorman Bazardo
Grilli, Cruceta, Miner, or Tata (Zumaya when healthy)

[sturg1dj]

and you know what the best part is??? If Maybin gets good then we can get him back when his contract runs out....yay

[Srschirm]

Wow, just wow. Right now I'm speechless. Giving up two of my favs in Miller and Maybin, but the chance of reward is also high...

I say again, wow...

[VIBaseball]

Pudge ninth?

With his .294 on-base percentage? Yeah, Pudge ninth.

[Victory Faust]

Dombrowski is the best GM in Tiger history, a title which used to belong to Bill Lajoie.

Think about what DD has accomplished in just a few years -- and with the bare cupboard he inherited when he got here in '02!!!

It's just an incredible front-office performance. In.Freaking.Credible.

[finch5682]

damn good team.. and people are so quick to say red sox w santana is a lock.. looks like this team will give everyone trouble.

[Victory Faust]

It's ridiculous how ESPN is filtering this monumental trade through a New York/Boston prism:

During a promo for the next "Sportscenter": "There was a blockbuster trade today that didn't involve the Yankess, Red Sox and Johan Santana."

Question from talking head: "How does this move shake out for the Yankees and Red Sox? Does it increase pressure for them to make a blockbuster move of their own?"

A question posed by a talking head during a telephone interview with new Tiger Dontrelle Willis: "So, do you have a message for the Yankees and Red Sox?" (Of course, Dontrelle wisely said he had no message for any team).

It kills these idiots to report a baseball story without mentioning the Yankees and/or Red Sox!!!

[finch5682]

yeah thats rite they all look at the yanks and sox, but shouldnt take long to see what this team can do. im happy to see the tigers build up the way they did the last few years..

[racosun]

First off, hello to you all. I've been gone for some time now, and this will also just be a short visit. So again, hello to all my friends here at BBF. I'll be back full-time when pitchers and catchers report.

Now, for the trade. I'm a very big fan of Maybin, everyone here knows that. But what DD pulled off today was well-worth giving up Maybin for. Those of you who know me fairly well also know I've wanted the Tigers to go after Cabrera too. I'll gladly give up Maybin for Cabrera any day. I'm pretty stoked.

Take care guys, hopefully I'll be able to stick around and chat sooner rather than later, but springtime at the latest.

[MadHatter]

That was a great trade for Detroit - I'm in shock. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

[ElHalo]

It kills these idiots to report a baseball story without mentioning the Yankees and/or Red Sox!!!

I preface this by saying that I grew up in Detroit, and am an absolutely HUGE Pistons fan (and the Wolverines and Red Wings are my team in their respective sports), so I at least know somewhat of what I speak when I talk about Detroit and NY sports.

In Rob Neyer's chat today, he had an absolutely perfect explanation of why the Yanks and Sox get so much coverage... for those of you who don't have ESPN Insider:


Andy (Tampa): I would love to see one chat or sportscenter where the yankees and red sox are not even mentioned. Anyone else with me?

Rob Neyer: I'm sure someone is. I'm sure about something else: if we had one all-Northeast chat and one zero-Northeast chat, the former would draw a significantly bigger audience.

Some sports are different in different markets. You could have the thirty greatest stars of NASCAR giving free rides in their race cars through Times Square, and only a smattering of people would show up. The number of people in NYC who follow college football is (and I am not making this up) not significantly greater than the number of people who follow college LaCrosse. So when you see NASCAR or college football (or, really, NFL football for that matter) discussed on national TV, you'll rarely hear the Northeast mentioned. Even when the Pats win the Superbowl, the victory parades are generally filled with people carrying "Yankees Suck!" signs.

There's a focus on the Knicks all out of whack to their talent level in NBA coverage because a) Isiah Thomas is nowhere near the GM his backcourt mate turned out to be, and b) streetball is a religion in NYC (the average summer game at Rucker Park in Harlem is probably as well attended as your average New Orleans Hornets game). The Yanks and Sox get overly commented because, again, their fans are just much more numerous and rabid than fans of other teams. It's not a bias, it's just reality. You'll see the coverage of other sports that northeastern fans don't care as much about skewed away from here. Just the way it is.

Like Rob Neyer said, a no-northeast chat wouldn't be as well attended as an all-Northeast chat in baseball. Just the way it is.

Congrats on getting Cabrera and Willis, though; you guys are loaded if IRod and Sheffield can put together halfway decent seasons.

[Dalkowski110]

Woohoo! I'm really happy about Miguel Cabrera. He may regress slightly, but he's hardly going to fall apart. I'd do Maybin for Cabrera any day of the week. Rabelo is pretty easy to replace...he's a backup catcher and Johnny Estrada and Miguel Olivo seem to be non-tender candidates. Miller? Too risky about his mechanics and control. Trahern looked good, but was back end of the rotation material and a little way off. Burke Badenhop was also expendable. But now...what did we really get in Willis? Well, unfortunately he has some pretty glaring mechanical problems, though his raw stuff (as well as his poise on the mound) is terrific. He's a bit of a project, but a project with tremendous upside. For example, he doesn't always repeat his arm slot, his windup can vary from start to start, and he has the bad habbit of his shoulder flying open. With all that being said, I like the Tigers pitching development program. I have faith in them to fix the guy. The Marlins, on the other hand, have one of the worst pitching development programs in baseball (not as bad as the Pirates, but bad)...good luck to Andrew Miller.

[PJ-34]

With his .294 on-base percentage? Yeah, Pudge ninth.


That's like the highest on the Jays.

[Victory Faust]

The Yanks and Sox get overly commented because, again, their fans are just much more numerous and rabid than fans of other teams. It's not a bias, it's just reality. You'll see the coverage of other sports that northeastern fans don't care as much about skewed away from here. Just the way it is.




I don't buy Rob Neyer's explanation. First of all, he's working for the company in question, so everything he says must be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I perfectly understand that, all things being equal, ESPN will lean toward the Yankees/Red Sox, since that's where the $$$ is. After all, they are a money-making organization. Had this been the Yankees or Red Sox which pulled off today's trade, ESPN would have spent triple the time talking about it as they did with Detroit involved. I understand that.

But if they're going to be SO biased, and filter EVERYTHING through the NY/Boston prism, then they're engaging in false advertising. Why not just call themselves the NY/Boston Report and be done with it?

If SportsCenter purports to be engaging in serious sports journalism -- which they do, despite the anchors' frequent wisecracks -- then they should report the monumental Tiger trade as is, rather than inventing bogus angles that will pander to the network's biggest markets.

One of the biggest trades in the last 30-40 years just went down. That's the story -- not whether the Yankees or Red Sox need to pull off a big trade in order to steal the headlines.

[tigers527]

Andrew Miller in 2007....19.2 pitches per IP. Career: 19.1 pitches per IP.

Dontrelle Willis in 2007.....16.9 pitches per IP. Career: 16 pitches per IP.

Now 2.3 (in 2007) and 3.1 (career) extra pitches does not seem like alot. Consider that is 11.5-15.5 extra pitches for 5 innings. Giving Miller a total of 95.5-96 pitches per 5 innings. While Willis will throw 80-84.5 pitches per 5 innings. Which guy is more likely to start the 6th?

Granted, Miller's sample size is much smaller. But even Willis had a rookie year number of 16.6 pitches per IP.

FYI Verlander in 2007 had 16.6 pitches per inning.

[HDH]

I like Dontrele Willis in the rotation. In spite of the fact the Tigers had an awsome offense, they were hurt last year by poor defense and middle relief. The Tigers don't need offense. The Angels want Miguel Cabrera badly so, I would rather the Tigers trade him to the Angels for players of equal or better value than Camerin Maybin and Andrew Miller. That way, the Tigers win all around.

[VIBaseball]

It's too bad Dontrelle (8 homers and .234 lifetime average) won't get to hit any more...unless the Tigers use him as a pinch-hitter, which they probably will if necessary. He's appeared in 178 games lifetime, 162 as a pitcher (though perhaps some of those other 16 could have been as a pinch-runner).

[sturg1dj]

I preface this by saying that I grew up in Detroit, and am an absolutely HUGE Pistons fan (and the Wolverines and Red Wings are my team in their respective sports), so I at least know somewhat of what I speak when I talk about Detroit and NY sports.

In Rob Neyer's chat today, he had an absolutely perfect explanation of why the Yanks and Sox get so much coverage... for those of you who don't have ESPN Insider:



Some sports are different in different markets. You could have the thirty greatest stars of NASCAR giving free rides in their race cars through Times Square, and only a smattering of people would show up. The number of people in NYC who follow college football is (and I am not making this up) not significantly greater than the number of people who follow college LaCrosse. So when you see NASCAR or college football (or, really, NFL football for that matter) discussed on national TV, you'll rarely hear the Northeast mentioned. Even when the Pats win the Superbowl, the victory parades are generally filled with people carrying "Yankees Suck!" signs.

There's a focus on the Knicks all out of whack to their talent level in NBA coverage because a) Isiah Thomas is nowhere near the GM his backcourt mate turned out to be, and b) streetball is a religion in NYC (the average summer game at Rucker Park in Harlem is probably as well attended as your average New Orleans Hornets game). The Yanks and Sox get overly commented because, again, their fans are just much more numerous and rabid than fans of other teams. It's not a bias, it's just reality. You'll see the coverage of other sports that northeastern fans don't care as much about skewed away from here. Just the way it is.

Like Rob Neyer said, a no-northeast chat wouldn't be as well attended as an all-Northeast chat in baseball. Just the way it is.

Congrats on getting Cabrera and Willis, though; you guys are loaded if IRod and Sheffield can put together halfway decent seasons.



so many give these reasons, and that is totally missing the point. Report on the Yankees when they do something, report on the Red Sox when they do something, report on the Tigers when they do something. Don't report on the Yankees and Red Sox when the Tigers are the only ones who have done anything.

[sturg1dj]

I don't buy Rob Neyer's explanation. First of all, he's working for the company in question, so everything he says must be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I perfectly understand that, all things being equal, ESPN will lean toward the Yankees/Red Sox, since that's where the $$$ is. After all, they are a money-making organization. Had this been the Yankees or Red Sox which pulled off today's trade, ESPN would have spent triple the time talking about it as they did with Detroit involved. I understand that.

But if they're going to be SO biased, and filter EVERYTHING through the NY/Boston prism, then they're engaging in false advertising. Why not just call themselves the NY/Boston Report and be done with it?

If SportsCenter purports to be engaging in serious sports journalism -- which they do, despite the anchors' frequent wisecracks -- then they should report the monumental Tiger trade as is, rather than inventing bogus angles that will pander to the network's biggest markets.

One of the biggest trades in the last 30-40 years just went down. That's the story -- not whether the Yankees or Red Sox need to pull off a big trade in order to steal the headlines.

I agree with you 100%.....I mean what if a news organization pandered to one political party.....oh wait......man the world is screwed up!

[slugger33]

Pudge ninth?
Yes. He had 9 walks last season.

[sturg1dj]

Yes. He had 9 walks last season.

i agree, but also think about it


during the season look who usually batted behind Pudge.....Casey, Monroe, Inge, Perez



he had to swing since we know the guys behind him were not going to do anything.....now put Pudge in the middle of this lineup, with some better pitches....who knows....on the other hand, put him 9th and you have Granderson on deck

[HDH]

so many give these reasons, and that is totally missing the point. Report on the Yankees when they do something, report on the Red Sox when they do something, report on the Tigers when they do something. Don't report on the Yankees and Red Sox when the Tigers are the only ones who have done anything.


I agree with this one. The Tiges made a block buster trade (Marlins) Two major trades (Braves and Cubs), and several seemingly minor deals and the media is still talking only A-Rod, Johan, NYY, and Boston while those teams are only signing their same old players.

Yes, Pudge is now a 9th place hitter in most MLB lineups.

[tigers527]

Yes, Pudge is now a 9th place hitter in most MLB lineups.

And that's just the NL teams ;)

[slugger33]

Do you guys think that the Tigers have a good shot of locking these guys up long term?