Al Kaline thread

[DiMag4Life]

I think Albert William deserves his own thread. Another Stan Musial type player who played his career without controversy in a mild baseball market. Anecdote away!

[Sirmudgeon]

I guess Kaline was kind of like Musial, quiet and consistent, often overlooked, though my reading of some contemporary opinions has him generally mentioned as one of the top OFs of his era, a good glove, good arm, good hit teammate. It seems he never truly replicated his initial season. Now, I realise that Cash did the same thing, albeit with a corked bat, but I've gotta ask- is it something in the water in Detroit? Were the pitchers just not used to Kaline (and, by extension, Cash)? Could he not hit a particular pitch or pitcher as well as other types?

Detroit, a mild baseball town, gosh, after the '84 Series, I betcha some of the Detroit constabulary would disagree. Yeah, it's Hockey Town, but still, that was an awful mess. Maybe the writers have become more well-read nationally, Albom has a loud pen, but I bet you'd find an awful lot of baseball love in Motown, just like in St. Louis. True, they're not Boston or New York.

Good.

Nice pull on a guy many (including myself) always overlook. Especially late in his career, the Tigers had a pretty interesting roster- McLain, Lolich, Cash, Freehan, Willie Horton, Gates Brown, Aurelio Rodriguez I think for a couple of years, some fun stuff, and Kaline was the leader, says something about him.

[JRB]

I think Albert William deserves his own thread. Another Stan Musial type player who played his career without controversy in a mild baseball market. Anecdote away!

Thanks for starting a Kaline thread. I think in the period 1955 through 1964 he was the second best player in the AL next to Mantle.

I once heard Sandy Koufax say that the two toughest batters he ever faced were Roberto Clemente and Al Kaline (who he probably faced in exhibition and All star games).

He was the youngest player ever to win a batting crown in 1955. He was 21 when the season started that year.

[Captain Cold Nose]

For a while, Detroit boasted of a HOF TV broadcasting booth with Al Kaline and George Kell.

I can assure you Detroit is not a mild baseball market, the fans have always been regarded as some of the best and most knowledgable by people and citiies able to look beyond themselves. And Kaline is absolutely revered in Motown, maybe second to Gordie Howe, arguably ahead as he has been very active post-retirement.

[Bill Burgess]

---------------------Al Kaline, Tigers' RF, 1954-57, -------------------------------------------1954-57---BB Ref (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kalinal01.shtml)


-----------------------------1954-57------------------------------------------------1954-57----------------------------------------------1953-57


Al's Relative Stats:

Kaline---Rel.BA-----Rel.Onb---Rel.Slg.------OPS+-----Rel.ISO
-------115.4 (61st)----114.4-----123.9----134 (111th)---140.2

Al Kaline's Home/Away breakdown splits:

---------At Bats---H-----2B---3B---HR-----R---RBI---BB-----BA----Onb----Slg.---TB
Home-----4,984--1,508---246---34---226---836---827---649---.303---.386---.502---2,500
Away-----5,132--1,499---252---41---173---786---756---628---.292---.376---.458---2,352

Hitting Stats:

Kaline, Cobb, Wagner, Hornsby, Ruth, Gehrig, T. Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Speaker, Lajoie, Musial, Collins, Crawford, J. Jackson, Wheat, Roush, Foxx, Clemente, Schmidt, Yaz, Anson, Bonds, B. Williams, Kiner, Killebrew, Rose, Gwynn, Greenberg, Waner, R. Jackson, Boggs, Gehringer, Brouthers, Delahanty, Simmons, Mize, Brett, F. Robinson, Ashburn, Sisler, Snider, Banks, Molitor, Keeler, Bench, Terry, Henderson.



Kaline-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league--1----1---1--0---0----0----0---1----0---1---0---0---1
2nd league--3----1---1--0---0----1----2---1----3---1---0---0---2
3rd league--2----1---1--0---0----0----0---0----2---1---0---0---1
4th---------1----1---0--1---0----0----0---2----0---1---1---0---1
5th---------0----0---2--1---0----1----1---0----2---1---0---1---0
6th---------0----1---1--1---0----1----1---1----0---1---1---1---0

Cobb--------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--12---8----3----4----1---5---4---6----7----8----6---0--11
2nd-league---3---3----4----4----2---2---2---2----7----3----1---1---3
3rd----------1---3----4----2----2---2---1---2----0----3----2---0---1
4th----------2---0----0----1----0---1---0---1----0----1----3---1---1
5th----------1---0----0----1----0---2---1---0----1----0----0---1---0
6th----------2---0----2----0----0---0---0---0----0----0----0---0---0

Wagner-------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----8---2----7----3----0---2---5----7---4----6----5---0--6
2nd league----2---2----1----3----1---2---2----1---1----3----0---0--2
3rd-----------0---5----3----2----0---2---2----4---2----2----2---0--2
4th-----------2---3----0----0----1---2---3----2---1----1----0---1--1
5th-----------1---1----1----0----2---1---1----2---2----0----0---0--0
6th-----------1---0----0----1----2---0---1----0---0----1----0---1--0

Hornsby-----BA---Hits-2B---3B--HR----R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---8----4----4----2---2----5---4----7----9----9----0---3--12
2nd league---2----1----1----1---2----1---1----2----1----1----0---1---1
3rd----------1----1----1----1---3----0---2----0----1----1----0---0---0
4th----------1----3----4----0---1----2---0----0----0----1----0---2---0
5th----------0----0----0----0---5----0---0----0----0----1----0---0---0
6th----------0----0----0----1---1----0---1----1----1----0----0---2---1

Ruth---------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1----0----1----0---12---8---6----6----9---13----0--11--13
2nd league----2----0----1----0----2---1---2--- 3----2----1----0---1---1
3rd-----------2----0----1----0----1---0---0----2----1----1----0---1---2
4th-----------1----3----0----0----0---0---3----0----2----0----0---0---0
5th-----------1----0----0----0----0---1---0----0----0----0----0---0---0
6th-----------0----2----1----1----0---1---1----0----0----0----0---0---0

Gehrig------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR--Runs--RBI--TB---OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---1----1----1----4----2----4----4----2----4----2---0---3--3
2nd league---2----3----0----0----4----2----4----3----2----4---0---2--6
3rd----------3----0----0----1----3----3----2----2----3----1---0---3--3
4th----------0----1----0----0----1----2----2----0----0----3---0---0--0
5th----------2----1----0----0----1----0----0----1----1----0---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----1----0----1----0----0----1----0----0---0---1--0

Ted Williams--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----6----0----2---0---4---6----4----6---12---8---0---8--9
2nd in league--2----1----2---0---4---1----2----0----0---1---0---1--1
3rd------------1----2----0---0---2---1----1----4----0---1---0---2--3
4th------------1----1----2---0---0---1----1----0----0---2---0---0--0
5th------------0----4----0---0---0---0----1----0----0---0---0---1--0
6th------------0----0----0---0---3---0----0----0----1---0---0---1--0

Mickey Mantle--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---1---4----6----1----3---3---4---0---5--8
2nd in league---1----0----1---0---3----2----3----4---5---0---0---3--3
3rd-------------1----0----0---0---2----1----1----2---1---2---0---2--1
4th-------------2----2----0---1---0----0----0----1---2---0---2---0--0
5th-------------0----0----0---0---1----0----2----0---0---0---0---0--0
6th-------------0----0----0---1---0----1----3----0---1---1---0---1--0

Willie Mays----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---3----4---2----0----3---2---5---4---1--6
2nd in league---3----1----1---1----1---5----2----5---1---3---0---1--1
3rd-------------2----1----1---1----3---3----3----5---2---2---0---2--5
4th-------------0----0----0---0----1---0----2----1---1---2---1---1--2
5th-------------1----1----0---0----2---0----1----1---5---4---0---1--0
6th-------------1----2----2---0----2---2----2----0---1---0---0---3--1

Hank Aaron----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----2---2----4---0---4----3----4---8---0---4---0---0--3
2nd in league--0---3----2---2---4----1----0---2---2---5---1---1--4
3rd------------0---1----1---0---1----4----2---2---3---4---0---2--4
4th------------3---0----1---2---2----2----2---2---1---1---2---2--1
5th------------4---0----0---0---2----1----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th------------0---3----1---0---2----1----1---1---1---2---2---0--2

Joe DiMaggio---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------2---0----0---1---2---1----2----3---0----2---0---0--1
2nd in league---0---1----1---0---0---2----3----2---0----5---0---0--4
3rd-------------2---1----0---4---1---0----3----1---2----0---0---0--2
4th-------------0---2----1---0---5---0----1----1---3----0---0---0--0
5th-------------0---0----0---0---2---2----1----2---0----0---0---0--1
6th-------------0---1----1---0---1---1----1----0---0----1---0---0--0

Tris Speaker--BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----1---2----8---0---1---0----0----1---4---1---0---0--1
2nd in league--2---1----3---1---2---4----1----3---3---2---0---1--4
3rd------------7---2----1---1---0---2----1----2---4---4---1---0--5
4th------------2---4----0---0---2---2----2----3---3---4---1---4--3
5th------------1---2----0---0---0---0----0----1---1---2---3---2--3
6th------------1---0----1---1---0---2----0----0---0---1---1---3--0

Nap Lajoie---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league----3---4----5---0---1----1----3---4---2---4---0---0--3
2nd in league-3---0----4---1---0----1----1---2---2---3---0---0--3
3rd-----------1---1----1---0---1----0----2---0---1---2---0---0--0
4th-----------1---1----1---0---0----1----1---2---1---0---0---0--1
5th-----------0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------3---1----0---0---2----0----1---0---0---2---1---0--4

Stan Musial-BA--Hits-2B---3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---7---6----8----5---0---5----2----6---6---6----0---1--6
2nd league---2---3----3----1---1---4----0----2---7---3----0---0--4
3rd----------5---2----1----1---1---4----3----1---0---0----0---2--0
4th----------2---1----0----2---1---1----2----2---2---3----0---2--3
5th----------1---0----0----1---1---1----2----2---0---1----0---2--0
6th----------0---0----2----0---1---0----0----1---1---0----0---0--1

Ed Collins--BA--Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led League---0---0----0---0----0---3----0---0----0---0---4---1--0
2nd league---3---2----0---1----0---1----0---0----3---0---4---5--1
3rd----------0---1----0---0----0---2----1---1----7---1---2---2--2
4th----------5---1----1---0----0---2----0---0----2---0---2---2--2
5th----------2---3----0---1----0---0----1---3----2---1---1---1--3
6th----------1---1----0---2----0---1----0---1----1---2---1---1--0

Crawford----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----1---6---2----1----3----2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---4----5----4---3---2----1----4----6---0---4---0---0--2
3rd----------1----4----0---3---2----0----2----2---0---3---0---0--4
4th----------2----0----1---0---1----1----2----1---2---1---0---0--3
5th----------0----2----0---0---3----2----1----2---2---2---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----2---3---1----0----2----1---1---0---1---0--1

J.Jackson---BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----2----1---3---0---0----0---2---1----1----0---0--0
2nd league---3----2----2---1---0---1----0---2---2----3----0---0--3
3rd league---2----2----2---2---1---2----1---1---0----1----0---1--2
4th----------2----2----0---1---0---1----4---1---3----2----0---0--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---1---0----0---0---1----2----0---0--3
6th----------0----0----0---0---0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0--0

Z. Wheat----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1----0----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----1----0---0--0
2nd league---1----3----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----0----0---0--1
3rd league---2----2----1---0---0---1----2---0----0----1----0---0--1
4th----------2----0----0---0---1---0----0---0----2----2----0---0--1
5th----------1----1----0---2---2---0----1---0----1----1----0---0--2
6th----------0----0----0---1---2---1----2---0----0----0----0---0--1

Edd Roush--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----1---1---1---0----0---1---0----1----0---0--1
2nd league--2----0----1---2---0---0----1---0---0----0----1---0--1
3rd league--1----3----0---3---0---0----1---0---1----1----0---0--2
4th---------1----1----0---1---1---0----0---1---1----1----1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0---0---0---2----0---1---1----0----0---0--0
6th---------0----1----0---0---0---0----1---2---1----1----1---0--1

J. Foxx-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2-----0---0---0---4---1----3---3---3---5----0---2--5
2nd league---2-----1---0---0---3---2----0---1---3---1----0---1--2
3rd league---1-----2---0---0---2---1----3---0---3---2----0---3--0
4th----------0-----0---0---0---3---2----2---3---0---1----0---4--3
5th----------1-----0---0---0---0---1----0---1---2---2----0---0--1
6th----------0-----0---0---0---0---1----2---1---0---1----0---0--0

Clemente----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---4----2----0---1----0---0----0----0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2----1----1---1----0---0----2----1---1---0---0---0--1
3rd league---1----1----0---2----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--1
4th----------2----1----0---1----0---2----0----0---1---0---0---0--0
5th----------1----1----1---4----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------0----1----2---1----0---0----0----0---3---1---0---0--1

Schmidt-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----0---0---8---1----4---3---3---5----0---4--6
2nd league---0----0----0---0---1---2----1---1---0---2----0---2--1
3rd league---0----0----0---0---2---6----4---0---0---2----0---3--2
4th----------1----0----0---0---1---0----0---1---3---3----0---3--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---0---0----0---4---1---0----0---0--1
6th----------0----0----0---0---1---1----0---0---0---0----0---1--0

Yaz----------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----3----2---3---0---1----3----1---2---5---3----0---2--4
2nd league----2----0---1---0---0----1----0---0---1---0----0---3--1
3rd league----0----0---2---1---1----1----1---0---1---0----0---1--0
4th-----------0----2---0---0---1----1----0---2---0---1----0---1--0
5th-----------0----1---0---0---0----1----1---0---0---0----0---2--0
6th-----------0----1---1---0---0----0----0---2---0---0----0---0--1

Anson-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs--RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----1----3--0---0-----0----8---1---4----0----0---1---1
2nd league--5----4----2--1---0-----0----3---2---5----4----0---1---2
3rd league--2----2----2--0---4-----0----3---2---1----1----0---1---1
4th---------1----0----2--0---1-----2----0---2---1----3----0---2---3
5th---------2----3----0--1---1-----2----0---0---2----1----0---0---3
6th---------0----0----1--0---0-----4----0---3---3----0----0---2---1

Bonds------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----0--0---2---1----1---1---8----7----0--10---9
2nd league--0----0----0--0---5---3----1---0---3----1----0---4---3
3rd league--1----0----0--0---1---6----0---1---0----1----1---1---2
4th---------1----0----0--0---4---0----4---0---2----3----1---0---0
5th---------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---3---1----1----2---0---1
6th---------0----0----0--2---0---3----2---1---0----1----2---0---0

B. Williams--BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--0---0---1----0---3---0---1---0---0--1
2nd league----0---0----1--1---2---0----3---1---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---3----3--1---3---0----0---1---0---2---0---0--1
4th-----------2---0----1--0---1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0--0
5th-----------0---1----0--1---0---2----0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---1----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---1---0---1--0

Kiner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---7---1----1---1---1---3---0---3--0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----3---2---0---0---0---3--0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---1----1---0---2---1---0---0--0
4th league---1---0----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---2---0---1--2
5th----------1---0----0--0---1---1----1---0---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------0---1----0--0---0---0----1---0---2---0---0---1--0

Killebrew---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---6----0----3---0---1---1---0---4---0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---2---1---3---0---1---1
3rd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---4---2---4---0---3---2
4th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---0---5---0---0---1---5
5th----------1---0----0--0---2----0----0---2---2---2---0---1---2
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---1---0---0---0---0---0

Rose--------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---7---5--0---0---4----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
2nd league---2---5---2--2---0---3----0---1---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---1---4--0---0---3----0---1---3---0---0---0---0
4th----------1---1---0--0---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
5th----------1---2---2--2---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
6th----------0---0---0--1---0---0----0---1---0---0---0---1---1

Gwynn------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--8---7----0--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--0
2nd league--1---0----1--3---0----0----0---0----2---0---1---0--0
3rd league--2---1----1--0---0----0----0---1----0---0---0---0--1
4th---------1---0----1--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--1
5th---------1---0----0--1---0----0----0---0----2---0---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----0--0---0----0----1---0----0---0---1---0--1

Greenberg---BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----2--0---4----1---4---2---0---1---0---2--0
2nd league---0----0----2--0---2----1---1---3---2---4---0---1--4
3rd league---0----0----1--1---0----1---1---1---2---2---0---0--1
4th----------0----1----0--0---0----1---1---0---0---0---0---0--2
5th----------1----1----0--1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------1----1----0--0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0---3--0

Waner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---2----2--2---0---2----1---1---0---0---0---0---0
2nd league---1---3----1--5---0---2----0---0---2---0---1---2---0
3rd league---0---1----1--0---0---0----0---1---2---1---0---1---1
4th----------3---1----2--1---0---1----0---2---1---2---0---1---4
5th----------1---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---0---0---0
6th----------0---2----1--0---0---1----0---1---2---0---0---0---1

R.Jackson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---4----2---1---0---0---3---0---0---4
2nd league----0---0----3--0---3----0---0---3---0---2---0---1---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---0---0
4th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---1---1---1---0---0---1---1
5th-----------0---0----1--0---2----2---0---0---1---2---0---1---1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0----0---3---0---2---1---0---0---1

Boggs--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---5----1----2--0---0---2----0---0---6---0---0---1--1
2nd league---1----5----3--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---0--2
3rd league---2----0----2--0---0---1----0---0---1---1---0---3--0
4th----------1----2----1--0---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
5th----------2----0----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---0---2--0
6th----------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--1

Gehringer---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1---2----2--1---0----2----0---0---0---0---1---0--0
2nd league---1---2----2--1---0----1----0---0---2---0---1---0--0
3rd league---0---0----1--1---0----3----0---0---0---0---0---1--0
4th----------1---0----2--0---0----1----0---2---1---0---0---1--0
5th----------2---3----0--1---0----2----1---0---1---0---0---2--0
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----0----0---4---1---0---0---1--1

Brouthers----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----5---3----3---1---2----2---2---4---5---7---0---0--8
2nd league----1---2----2---4---1----0---2---2---5---3---0---0--1
3rd league----2---1----1---2---2----1---1---1---0---0---0---0--2
4th-----------1---1----2---1---0----0---1---1---1---0---0---2--0
5th-----------1---2----0---1---2----1---1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---0----1---0---0----0---1---3---0---0---0---0--0

Delahanty----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----5--1---2---0----3---2---2---5---1---0--4
2nd league----3---1----3--0---0---0----2---2---1---2---0---0--3
3rd league----2---1----2--2---1---1----1---2---2---1---0---0--1
4th-----------2---2----1--0---2---1----0---1---0---1---0---2--1
5th-----------0---1----0--0---1---2----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------2---0----0--2---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---2--1

Mize---------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----1---0---1--1---4---1----3---3---0---4---0---0---2
2nd league----2---0---1--0---2---1----1---4---2---3---0---0---5
3rd league----0---3---1--2---1---2----3---0---1---2---0---2---2
4th-----------0---0---0--0---1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
5th-----------3---1---0--1---1---1----1---0---2---0---0---1---0
6th-----------0---2---0--0---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---1---0

Brett-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---3----2--3---0----0---0---1---3---3---0---0---3
2nd league---2---0----2--1---0----1---1---2---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---0----2--0---0----1---0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0----1---0---1---1---1---0---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--1---0----1---1---1---0---1---0---0---2
6th----------2---0----0--2---0----0---1---0---1---2---0---0---0

F.Robinson---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---0----1--0---1----3---1---1---2---4---0---0--4
2nd league----2---2----0--0---2----2---4---1---6---1---0---1--1
3rd league----1---1----3--1---3----0---2---1---0---0---1---1--1
4th-----------1---0----1--0---3----1---0---3---3---5---1---2--1
5th-----------1---0----0--0---2----2---1---0---0---1---0---1--7
6th-----------2---1----2--0---1----1---0---1---0---1---1---0--1

Ashburn-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2---3----0--2---0---0----0---0---4---0---1---4---0
2nd league---2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---2---0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---1---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--3---0---2----0---0---1---0---2---1---1
6th----------2---3----0--0---0---2----0---0---0---0---2---1---0

Sisler-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----2---2----0--2---0---1----0---2---0---0---4---0--0
2nd league----1---1----1--2---2---2----1---1---1---2---2---0--1
3rd league----2---3----1--1---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
4th-----------2---3----1--0---0---1----1---1---0---2---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---1---0--1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----2---0---1---0---1---0--1

Snider------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0----1---0--0---1----3---1---3---1---2---0---1---1
2nd league---0----1---2--0---1----1---1---1---1---2---0---0---1
3rd league---2----1---2--2---1----0---1---0---2---0---0---1---2
4th----------1----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---1---0
5th----------1----0---0--0---0----0---0---3---0---1---1---1---0
6th----------0----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---1---1---1

Simmons-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---2---2----0--0---0----1---1---2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---0----2--0---1----2---2---2---0---3---0---0--0
3rd league---1---3----0--0---2----0---2---1---0---3---0---0--2
4th----------3---3----0--0---1----0---1---1---0---0---0---0--1
5th----------0---0----0--0---3----0---2---1---0---2---0---0--1
6th----------0---0----0--1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0---0--1

Banks--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---1---0---1---0---0--0
2nd league----0---0----0--1---2---2----0---1---0---1---0---0--1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---3---0---0---0---0--0
4th-----------0---1----1--0---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----1---0---0---2---0---0--2
6th-----------1---0----0--0---1---0----1---1---0---0---0---0--0

Bench------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--0---0----0--0---2---0----3---1---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--0---0----1--0---1---1----1---1---0---0---0---0--1
3rd league--0---0----2--0---0---0----1---1---0---2---0---1--0
4th---------0---0----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---2---0---0--0
5th---------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----1--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0--0

Molitor-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---3----1--1---0---3----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league---1---2----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---1---0--1
4th----------1---2----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---2---0--0
5th----------2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------3---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---0--1

Terry--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league----3---3----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---1----1--1---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--0
4th-----------2---1----0--2---1---0----0---2---1---0---0---0--2
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----2---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------1---0----0--0---0---2----1---0---0---0---0---0--0

Keeler-----BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----3----0--0---0----1---0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--2----5----0--0---0----5---0---1---1---1---0---0--1
3rd league--1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---2---0---0---0--0
4th---------3----2----0--1---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--0
6th---------1----0----0--1---0----1---0---2---1---0---0---0--0

Henderson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB-BB--OPS+
led league----0---1----0--0---0----5---0---0---1---0---12--4---1
2nd league----1---0----0--1---0----1---0---0---2---1----0--2---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---6---0----0--1---0
4th-----------2---0----0--0---0----3---0---0---1---0----2--5---0
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---2---0----1--0---0
6th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---0---1---1---0----2--1---0

How Fever evaluated Al as an All-Time RFer, in our 3 polls.

Here are the results of our 1st. RF poll, conducted by leecemark, December 8, 2004, 07:48 PM

1) Babe Ruth 210
2) Hank Aaron 189
3) Frank Robinson 163
4) Mel Ott 131
5) Al Kaline 74
6) Tony Gwynn 72
7) Roberto Clemente 71
8) Reggie Jackson 54
9) Paul Waner 52
10) Sam Crawford 49
11) Harry Heilmann 30
12) Pete Rose 12
12) Ichiro Suzuki 12
14) Dave Winfield 9
14) Willie Keeler 9

--other vote getters; Chuck Klein, Tony Oliva, Roger Maris, Kiki Cuyler, Sam Rice, Sam Thompson, Dwight Evans and Sammy Sosa.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 2nd. poll, conducted by 538280, December 27, 2005, 10:55 AM

We had 15 ballots submitted, and unsurprisingly, Babe Ruth was unanimously elected as our #1 RFer, with Hank Aaron also being a unanimous #2 choice. Frank Robinson and Mel Ott were the clear #3 and #4, but then after that things get really interesting. Here's everyone who received 12 or more points (first place votes in parenthesis):

1. Babe Ruth-180 (15)
2. Hank Aaron-135
3. Frank Robinson-115
4. Mel Ott-99
5. Tony Gwynn-53
6. Sam Crawford-50
7. Reggie Jackson-49
8. Roberto Clemente-42
9. Pete Rose-38
10. Al Kaline-35
11. Paul Waner-22
12. Gary Sheffield-12
----------------------------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 3rd. poll, conducted by Bill Burgess, June 6, 2007, 05:46 PM

1. Babe Ruth - 159
2. Hank Aaron - 145
3. Frank Robinson - 124
4. Mel Ott - 83
5. Paul Waner - 79
6. Reggie Jackson - 67
7. Roberto Clemente - 55
8. Tony Gwynn - 52
9. Sam Crawford - 47
10. Al Kaline - 41
11. Pete Rose - 12.5
12. Gary Sheffield - 12
13. Harry Heilmann - 9
13. Vladimir Guerrero - 9
13. Dave Winfield - 9
16. Ichiro Suzuki - 2.5
17. Willie Keeler - 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Bill Burgess]

He was the youngest player ever to win a batting crown in 1955. He was 21 when the season started that year.
Al was born December 19, 1934 in Baltimore, MD.

Actually, he was only 20. He tied Cobb (1907) for being the youngest. Both were only 20 when they captured their first BA title. Curiously for Al, it was also his last.

[Sirmudgeon]

Al was born December 19, 1934 in Baltimore, MD.

Actually, he was only 20. He tied Cobb (1907) for being the youngest. Both were only 20 when they captured their first BA title. Curiously for Al, it was also his last.

Why was it his last, do you think? Cash, I get, but Kaline surprises me that he didn't win a couple more. Thanks for the pix, as well, especially that one of him climbing the wall. Way cool.

[philkid3]

Why was it his last, do you think? Cash, I get, but Kaline surprises me that he didn't win a couple more. Thanks for the pix, as well, especially that one of him climbing the wall. Way cool.

I have no answer for you, but, of course, there is an active player by the name of Alex Rodriguez who won his first and, thus far, last batting title when he was 20.

'Course, batting average be damne, he's gone on to bigger and better things.

[Freakshow]

Detroit was the last park to install lights (except for Wrigley, of course)., 1948 IIRC. Because they waited, they had the BEST lighting in the league for a couple decades. This had a lot to do with four Tiger batting champs in 13 year (1949 Kell, 1955 Kaline, 1959 Kuenn, 1961 Cash). They didn't have another one until Ordonez.

[Bill Burgess]

Why was it his last, do you think? Cash, I get, but Kaline surprises me that he didn't win a couple more.
I really dunno. I think he should have won a couple more myself.

I often sratch my noggin that some hitters didn't lead their leagues in certain categories more.

Such as these.

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle & Mays all led their league in BA just once.

Ruth, Williams, DiMaggio, Collins, Crawford, Wheat, Roush, Foxx, Bonds never led their leagues in hits.

Mantle, Mays, Gehrig, Kalilne and Anson only led their leagues in hits but once.

Mantle only led his league in RBIs once, and Mays never.

Aaron never led his league in onbase average.

Gehrig led his league in HRs just twice.

[Bill Burgess]

Anyone have Al's relative stats handy? Not using Baseball-Reference's numbers, which are park-adjusted?

[AstrosFan]

FName LName Year Team Lg BA+ OBP+ SLG+ OPS+ ISO+
Al Kaline 1953 DET AL 92.8 86.9 90.1 76.9 84.3
Al Kaline 1954 DET AL 104 89.5 89.6 79.1 58.3
Al Kaline 1955 DET AL 127.8 121.9 137.6 159.5 157.8
Al Kaline 1956 DET AL 117.6 109.6 129.9 139.5 153.2
Al Kaline 1957 DET AL 111.9 102.3 120.4 122.6 136.9
Al Kaline 1958 DET AL 119.8 113.3 123.3 136.7 130
Al Kaline 1959 DET AL 125.5 123.6 133.3 156.8 148
Al Kaline 1960 DET AL 105.4 105.1 105.8 110.9 106.6
Al Kaline 1961 DET AL 122.9 116 125.4 141.4 130.1
Al Kaline 1962 DET AL 115.6 112 144.7 156.7 196.8
Al Kaline 1963 DET AL 122.3 116.7 130.3 147 145.1
Al Kaline 1964 DET AL 114.8 118.1 117.9 136.1 123.7
Al Kaline 1965 DET AL 112 121.1 122.6 143.7 142.7
Al Kaline 1966 DET AL 116.1 124.6 139.6 164.2 182.9
Al Kaline 1967 DET AL 126.6 131.5 148.4 179.9 192.2
Al Kaline 1968 DET AL 120.9 127.6 121.6 149.2 123.1
Al Kaline 1969 DET AL 106.9 104.4 116.6 121 135.6
Al Kaline 1970 DET AL 108 113.6 114.4 128 126.6
Al Kaline 1971 DET AL 115.3 127.2 122 149.2 135.9
Al Kaline 1972 DET AL 126.9 118.5 133.4 151.9 147.9
Al Kaline 1973 DET AL 98.2 97.4 103.2 100.6 113.7
Al Kaline 1974 DET AL 101.3 104.4 104.7 109.1 112.5
Al Kaline Career 115.7 114.4 123.9 138.3 140.2

Here ya go, Bill. Non-park adjusted, just like you asked.

[Victory Faust]

As a lifelong Detroiter and lifelong Tiger fan who saw Kaline at the tail end of his career, I thank you most kindly for starting a Kaline thread.

But I must correct you, in that Detroit is anything but a mild baseball town. It certainly was a dormant baseball town recently, after one of the worst decades in baseball history (I think only the Phillies and A's had as many 90-loss seasons in a 10-year period as the 1990s-early 2000s Tigers).

But while Kaline played, Detroit was right up there with anyone, including Boston, NY and St. Looie.

From 1965-1991, the Tigers drew at least a million fans each season, even during crappy years. During that period, no other AL team could say the same thing -- not New York (and its huge metropolitan area to draw from), not Boston...none of 'em.

And now that the Tigers are good again, the town's baseball spirit is reborn. I wouldn't say this is because we have bandwagon fans (we had some pretty dismal seasons from 1965-1991).

But Mike Ilitch absolutely ran the franchise into the ground, which disgusted many lifelong fans, including me. (However, since Ilitch in recent years has opened his wallet and stopped suggesting that the likes of Kimera Bartee get playing time, his ownership has turned into a decided asset instead of a detriment, which is what it was during the first 12-13 years of his ownership).

My long-winded point is: Detroit has never been a mild baseball town. Far from it! :)

[Gee Walker]

I remember watching this game on TV when I was 8 years old. From Retrosheet, May 26, 1962:

YANKEES 9TH: Tresh grounded out (pitcher to first); Lopez
singled to left; Maris flied out to right; Howard lined to
right; Ball hit hard, Kaline broke collarbone, out 2
months; 0 R, 1 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Tigers 2, Yankees 1.

Kaline made a diving, tumbling catch to record the final out of the game. When he left, the Tigers were 19-17. When he returned, two months later, they were 45-49.

Kaline had held the consecutive games streak for errorless play by an outfielder. I don't know when it occurred, but it ended when he tried to throw out a runner trying to go first to third, and his throw hit the runner - an unfortunate play that resulted in an error when the runner scored. That's just an example of how good he was in rightfield.

Kaline's numbers would look better if he hadn't spent some of his best years in the 1960's pitchers' heaven. Look at his seasonal averages nowadays, and you get the impression that he's a guy about as good as Shawn Green, or, going back a generation, Dave Parker. In reality he had seasons in his mid-thirties that neither Parker nor Green could ever match in their careers.

[MyDogSparty]

But Mike Ilitch absolutely ran the franchise into the ground, which disgusted many lifelong fans, including me. (However, since Ilitch in recent years has opened his wallet and stopped suggesting that the likes of Kimera Bartee get playing time, his ownership has turned into a decided asset instead of a detriment, which is what it was during the first 12-13 years of his ownership).

My long-winded point is: Detroit has never been a mild baseball town. Far from it! :)

I have to agree that Detroit is NOT a mild baseball town. If all our teams were consistently winning I believe that baseball would trump ALL sports here. I tend to think of us as "very patient" though. Heck look at the Detroit Lions! I'm not too sure that Mr. I & Mrs. I were afraid to open their wallet. They never had a problem opening it for the Detroit Red Wings (owned since 1982). I think their problem was the string GMs they hired for the Tigers (owned since 1992)...

Randy Smith 1996-2002
Joe Klein 1993-1995
Jerry Walker 1993
Joe McDonald 1991-1992

...they finally got it right with Dave Dombrowski. Compare that to the Red Wings management...

Jimmy Devellano 1982-1990
Bryan Murray 1990-1994
Jimmy Devellano 1994-1997
Kenny Holland 1997-

...throw in Scotty Bowman and Jim Nill, the Wings have been solid for a long time. Jimmy D. started rebuilding through the minor leagues just like Dombrowski did.

Regarding Kaline, he was a truely great player. Our last HOFer. Detroit loves him because he gave it his all on the field and he, TO THIS DAY, is still dedicated to making the Tiger's great. He's been with the organization in one form or another for about as long as he's been married to his wife and that's over 50 years. You don't see much of either of those these days. He was a perfectionist on the field both on offense and defense. It's my opinion that he was greater than Clemente in RF. He just wasn't as flashy. Kindof like comparing Alan Trammell to Ozzie Smith. I would much rather have Trammell on my team. One problem with both he and Trammell was always their health. They would get hurt for chunks of a season at a time but we loved them anyway because when they played they gave it their all and they cared as much as we did/do. Off the field, Kaline could be somewhat moody to the fans. Depending on his mood he may or may not give you an autograph. But like I said, Detroit fans are loyal, fierce competitors and yet a very patient bunch.

[Freakshow]

But Mike Ilitch absolutely ran the franchise into the ground, which disgusted many lifelong fans, including me.
I have to correct this. It was Tom Monaghan who ran the franchise into the ground. After he became owner in 1984 he put no money into scouting, no money into promotion, no money into player development, no money into stadium maintenance...get the pattern. For awhile the franchise coasted along on what Fetzer and Campbell had built. But talented free agents were let walk away one by one: Parrish, Gibson, Morris, et al. Monaghan was putting all the Tiger's money into his own peculiar pursuits.

Ilitch bought the team and realized too late that he overpaid for it, that Monaghan had gutted the franchise. Ilitch didn't really have deep enough pockets at that time to compete financially in baseball and for many years I was wishing he would sell the club to someone who had more money. With nothing coming from the farm system, he tried to keep things propped up for a couple years with free agents; but the 1994-95 strike drove him over the financial precipice. Within a year he shed most of his veterans and the long years of 90+ losses began. From 1995-2005 the team won more than 72 games just twice.

[Victory Faust]

I have to correct this. It was Tom Monaghan who ran the franchise into the ground. After he became owner in 1984 he put no money into scouting, no money into promotion, no money into player development, no money into stadium maintenance...get the pattern. For awhile the franchise coasted along on what Fetzer and Campbell had built. But talented free agents were let walk away one by one: Parrish, Gibson, Morris, et al. Monaghan was putting all the Tiger's money into his own peculiar pursuits.

Ilitch bought the team and realized too late that he overpaid for it, that Monaghan had gutted the franchise. Ilitch didn't really have deep enough pockets at that time to compete financially in baseball and for many years I was wishing he would sell the club to someone who had more money. With nothing coming from the farm system, he tried to keep things propped up for a couple years with free agents; but the 1994-95 strike drove him over the financial precipice. Within a year he shed most of his veterans and the long years of 90+ losses began. From 1995-2005 the team won more than 72 games just twice.


You're right that Monaghan ran the team into the ground. But, as you say, as of 2005 -- 13 full years after Ilitch bought the team -- the Tigers hadn't had a winning season.

Kinda hard to blame the previous regime more than a dozen years after the fact. Ilitch wouldn't pony up, and the franchise crumbled. He made impassioned speeches about how he wanted to win, then turned around and cut payroll.

The truth is, they BOTH ran the team into the ground. But, as I said, it's all forgiven now. Ilitch has finally opened up the ol' pocketbook, and hired a good GM. So I suppose there's no point in finagling over what happened yesterday, if today and tomorrow look good.

[Freakshow]

You're right that Monaghan ran the team into the ground. But, as you say, as of 2005 -- 13 full years after Ilitch bought the team -- the Tigers hadn't had a winning season.

Kinda hard to blame the previous regime more than a dozen years after the fact. Ilitch wouldn't pony up, and the franchise crumbled. He made impassioned speeches about how he wanted to win, then turned around and cut payroll.

The truth is, they BOTH ran the team into the ground. But, as I said, it's all forgiven now. Ilitch has finally opened up the ol' pocketbook, and hired a good GM. So I suppose there's no point in finagling over what happened yesterday, if today and tomorrow look good.
Yeah, w're essentially in agreement, though I would change one letter. You wrote "Ilitch wouldn't pony up". I think it was more a matter of Ilitch couldn't pony up, that he was overextended financially for the better part of a decade. He still had enough to keep the hockey team going, but that's a lot cheaper than retooling a baseball franchise.

[willshad]

looking at the stats, Kaline appears a bit overrated. As a hitter he seems to be like Robin Yount, or a poor man's George Brett...good at everything but not great at anything..only 12 black ink points in 20+ seasons. very durable and consistently very good (but never really great except for 1955). Made the majors at a very young age, thus amassed good career totals. if not for making the majors at 18 and getting 3000 hits he would probably be just another guy. To me he is a borderline hall of famer...well maybe not borderline, but more like the lowest level of the 'definite hall of famers', along with Winfield, Brock,B. Williams, etc. certainly not an all time great as he is sometimes made out to be. That said, it appears he deserved the MVP in 1955. was this the infamous Yankee bias?

[DiMag4Life]

looking at the stats, Kaline appears a bit overrated. As a hitter he seems to be like Robin Yount, or a poor man's George Brett...good at everything but not great at anything..only 12 black ink points in 20+ seasons. very durable and consistently very good (but never really great except for 1955). Made the majors at a very young age, thus amassed good career totals. if not for making the majors at 18 and getting 3000 hits he would probably be just another guy. To me he is a borderline hall of famer...well maybe not borderline, but more like the lowest level of the 'definite hall of famers', along with Winfield, Brock,B. Williams, etc. certainly not an all time great as he is sometimes made out to be.

I don't know about overrated. He is almost virtually passed on & ignored on BBF..... which is why this thread was created.



That said, it appears he deserved the MVP in 1955. was this the infamous Yankee bias?

Mantle anyone?

[willshad]

I don't know about overrated. He is almost virtually passed on & ignored on BBF..... which is why this thread was created.



Mantle anyone?

Mantle was probably a bit better, and Ted Williams would have been a runaway choice if he had played a full season. but kaline winning it wouldnt have been a huge disservice. I was looking more at kaline compared to Berra. Just why did Berra score so highly in the MVP voting every year? Its interesting that the one year he DID deserve it (1950) he finished third. is it just me or was this a very weak time for talent in the american league?

[DiMag4Life]

Mantle was probably a bit better, and Ted Williams would have been a runaway choice if he had played a full season. but kaline winning it wouldnt have been a huge disservice. I was looking more at kaline compared to Berra. Just why did Berra score so highly in the MVP voting every year? Its interesting that the one year he DID deserve it (1950) he finished third. is it just me or was this a very weak time for talent in the american league?

I think the reason Yogi won was because he was perceived as the 'leader' of the Yankees; the best team in baseball. That year he had no business winning it; but in years past, I'd be pretty content with a 135-140 OPS+ from a catcher with solid defense.

As for talent, I don't think the AL was as bad as some people make it out to be;

Mantle
Ford
Kaline
Berra
Williams
Nellie Fox

In the '60's, you had;

Mantle
Cash
Maris for a few years
Brooksie
Killebrew
Collavito
Ford
Elston Howard for a few years
Berra still pretty good in '60 and '61, 115 and 119 OPS+
Aparicio
Wilhelm

[Bill Burgess]

As for talent, I don't think the AL was as bad as some people make it out to be;

Mantle
Ford
Kaline
Berra
Williams
Nellie Fox

In the '60's, you had;

Mantle
Cash
Maris for a few years
Brooksie
Killebrew
Collavito
Ford
Elston Howard for a few years
Berra still pretty good in '60 and '61, 115 and 119 OPS+
Aparicio
Wilhelm
You forgot some names.

Yaz, Oliva, Berra, Allison, Aparicio, Minoso, Rosen, Kuenn, Doby, Sievers, Jensen, Powell, as hitters.

Bob Lemon, Camilo Pascual, Mike Garcia, Herb Score, Bob Feller, Herb Score, Sam McDowell, Milt Pappas, Jim Kaat, Early Wynn, Billy Pierce, Frank Lary, Jim Bunning [with Det til 64], Dick Radatz, Peters, Horlen, Bobby Shantz, Mickey Lolich, Denny McLain, Jim Palmer, Virgil Trucks, Don Mossi, Chuck Stobbs, Jim Perry, Jim "Mudcat" Grant, Hank Agurrie, Jim Longborg, Dick Donnovan, Mike McCormack, Moe Drubosky, Tommy John, Paul Foytack, Dean Chance, "Blue Moon" Odum, Satchel Page, as pitchers.

[willshad]

I guess i was talking about more the late 40s and 50s. Seems the only real stars and hall of famers around this time were Dimaggio(who was about done), Williams (also past his prime) , Mantle, and Berra. Fox and Rizzuto made the hall but were mistakes. Im starting to think maybe Williams and Mantle's high OPS+ and ink scores are partially due to their era... power-wise they really had no competition. I doubt either one would been nearly am dominant playing in another era. But I guess that may be discussion for another thread. was kaline perceived as 'first tier' star? Im wondering which players were also viewed as stars around this time.

[Freakshow]

Top 15 in OPS, AL 1960-69; Runs Created also shown
OPS RC
.960 886 Mickey Mantle
.935 1089 Harmon Killebrew
.881 953 Norm Cash
.878 908 Al Kaline
.877 492 Jim Gentile
.874 493 Frank Howard
.874 575 Roger Maris
.871 966 Carl Yastrzemski
.862 627 Tony Oliva
.839 781 Bob Allison
.836 781 Rocky Colavito
.830 384 Tony Conigliaro
.823 413 Willie Horton
.822 637 Boog Powell
.808 467 Don Mincher