Are the Yankees insane?

[willshad]

Is Jorge Posada really getting paid 13.1 million a season for the next 4 years? Is it just me, or does this not make any sense whatsoever, on any level. Its one thing to keep a 36 year old catcher in the lineup and block the progress of any promising rookie (already a bad move), but to make him the highest paid catcher OF ALL TIME is pure insanity. How can you justify giving a guy like that such money? last year was obviously a fluke (he simply didnt have his normal late season swan dive), and even if it wasnt he still isnt worth that much. Posada will hit something like 15 75 .270 next year, more in line with his career averages...maybe even worse if he shows his age. If the Yanks think a guy like that is worth more than Mike Piazza in his prime, then they are crazy. They could probably get a rookie catcher to about match his likely production, and as a DH those numbers would be useless...any replacement level guy could do that.

[Wade8813]

Except you have to remember that many salaries are higher than when Piazza was in his prime. It's doubtful they could find a rookie catcher to match his production - decent hitting catchers are rare. There are probably less than a dozen catchers who hit at the level you described.

Also, you didn't take into consideration his actual CATCHING ability. I have no idea how good he is, but it's quite likely better than many rookies they'd be able to find.

That said, it does seem a bit high for a fairly long time. This year probably was a fluke, and he is getting a bit old, especially for a catcher.

[leecemark]

--Thread moved due to lack of historical content.

[TonyStarks]

Is Jorge Posada really getting paid 13.1 million a season for the next 4 years? Is it just me, or does this not make any sense whatsoever, on any level. Its one thing to keep a 36 year old catcher in the lineup and block the progress of any promising rookie (already a bad move), but to make him the highest paid catcher OF ALL TIME is pure insanity. How can you justify giving a guy like that such money? last year was obviously a fluke (he simply didnt have his normal late season swan dive), and even if it wasnt he still isnt worth that much. Posada will hit something like 15 75 .270 next year, more in line with his career averages...maybe even worse if he shows his age. If the Yanks think a guy like that is worth more than Mike Piazza in his prime, then they are crazy. They could probably get a rookie catcher to about match his likely production, and as a DH those numbers would be useless...any replacement level guy could do that.

The Yankees do not have a readily available Catching prospect.
The Catcher position supposedly belongs to Jesus Montero..but he's only 17 right now. So it's not even a lock that he'll stay there.

Besides...the money was also to keep Jorge from going to the Mets.
We all know Minaya would offer some stupidly 5 year type of deal.

Also, the money is not just for his numbers but also for the leadership he brings. Jorge is more the Yankee Captain then say Derek Jeter. Jorge is the vocal Yankee on the field and off the field.

[ElHalo]

Posada will hit something like 15 75 .270 next year, more in line with his career averages...maybe even worse if he shows his age. If the Yanks think a guy like that is worth more than Mike Piazza in his prime, then they are crazy. They could probably get a rookie catcher to about match his likely production, and as a DH those numbers would be useless...any replacement level guy could do that.

If I had to put a guestimate on Posada's production next year, I'd go with...

.275/.380/.490, 20 HR 85 RBI

If you really think you can get a rookie catcher to "about match" that production, you're dreaming.

[DodgerBlue8188]

considering what the Yankees pay for a lot of there players I didn't think it was too crazy.

[digglahhh]

Okay, Willshad.

First off all, I've taken the precaution of calling Mike Piazza and notifying him that he has a stalker; this is getting a little weird.

Secondly, athletes' salaries have been increasing exponentially over the past decade. Pointing out that Posada makes more than Piazza in his prime is about as germane as me pointing out that a Honda Accord today costs more than a top of the line Mercedes in 1976 (I didn't look that up, but you get the point).

Third, offensive production from a catcher is rare. Posada has been VERY good for a long time, border HOF quality for a catcher. Put it this way, if it was easy to replace Posada-level production, it would take some of the luster off of what good old Michael Joseph did.

That said, I would have really tried to back away from the 4 years; the Yanks probably tried to.

[philkid3]

Why does every Willshad post seem to find a way to mention Mike Piazza?

First, players are getting paid more. David Eckstein is making nearly twice as much as Cal Ripken did in his prime.

Second, it's the Yankees. Since when is it important how much they pay players? They can pay them whatever they want. When has that ever hurt them in the past? He had an awesome season and they rewarded him for it in a way that other teams can't. That doesn't make them crazy; if anything it makes the financial situation in baseball crazy.

[natsnsoxfan]

Wasn't Montero traded as part of the Abreu deal a few seasons back?

[Westlake]

Wasn't Montero traded as part of the Abreu deal a few seasons back?

No. CJ Wilson, Matt Smith, Jesus Sanchez, Carlos Monastrios.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Second, it's the Yankees. Since when is it important how much they pay players? They can pay them whatever they want. When has that ever hurt them in the past? He had an awesome season and they rewarded him for it in a way that other teams can't. That doesn't make them crazy; if anything it makes the financial situation in baseball crazy.

If anything he should be upset that he made several mental errors on the basepaths and on defense. Plus predicting .390/.500 out of him isn't that insane. Also they needed to keep Posada because that was right after A-Rod left and they didn't want to add Catcher to their list of needs.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Are the Yankees insane?

Yes.

This is throwing money away. Posada will in no way justify this giveaway.

[philkid3]

Are the Yankees insane?

Yes.

This is throwing money away. Posada will in no way justify this giveaway.

If they're willing to spend the money and they dont' have a payroll cap, why not?

I don't think they really think Rivera is the best closer in the game, but they gave him his gold watch anyway.

[TonyK]

I would expect Jorge to have a similar result as Johnny Damon - A great season after signing the large contract followed by a rapid decline. By the second year of the contract when he turns 38, injuries and age will probably catch up to him as they did to Damon last season.

[ElHalo]

Posada's offense at C is just hard to replace. I agree that he's likely to decline soon; however, he did just finish having the best season for an over 35 C in the history of baseball, so his decline won't be as drastic as you'd expect from a catcher his age -- by definition, since you'd expect a catcher his age to have already been done.

In any event, I had been hoping the Yankees would be able to bowl over the Twins at the trade deadline this past year with an offer for Johan Santana AND Joe Mauer (would have taken most every young player the Yanks have, but I would have advised for it). Too late now, anyway.

[cardsfanatic]

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone or something. We have a thread where people are saying Sosa should get paid and should be starting somewhere (when he was below average) yet Posada who actually performed at an incredible clip at a position where offense is barren (unlike RF and DH) can "just be replaced by some unnamed rookie". Yeeeeeah. Is Posada overpaid? Certainly, given his age. But 75% of the baseball world is overpaid. Carlos Lee? Alfonso Soriano? Torii Hunter? Barry Zito? All guys who signed contracts recently who are absurdly overpaid. If Posada were two years younger I'd take him over all of those guys... in fact, I still might.

[philipthegreat]

The law of supply and demand upped Posda's value. Can anyone think of any catcher in the majors right now who is as good as posada?

[skyking162]

Even if you (mostly) forget Posada's 2007 and pay him according to his career numbers, he's a very good catcher:

.380 OBP
.480 SLG

That's worth almost 4 wins over a full season, so let's give Posada 2.5 wins for 2/3 of a season. Add a win for being a catcher and subtract half a win for Posada's defense (http://jinaz-reds.blogspot.com/2007/11/player-value-part-3c-fielding-catchers.html). Posada's roughly a 3-win player. On the free-agent market, wins cost about $4.5 million each, so Posada's only being overpaid by half a million.

Of course, 2009 and beyond are a slightly different story, and you might not agree Posada can keep up his career levels or stay healthy for 2/3 of a season. The Yankees have the money to spend and this one isn't totally crazy.

[west coast orange and black]

willshad: are the yankees insane?

they own 38% stake of the yes network. that's $200M.
plus, they will be able to deduct their stadium operations expenses, including construction.
dunno about insane, but they're definitely loaded.

[RubeBaker]

Yes, but worse than Posada is the mere fact that they are pursuing Santana. Why? They already have great, young talent in their rotation. It's the pen and resolving the issues at first that they should be worried about.

[ElHalo]

Yes, but worse than Posada is the mere fact that they are pursuing Santana. Why? They already have great, young talent in their rotation. It's the pen and resolving the issues at first that they should be worried about.

They didn't lose to Cleveland last year in the playoffs because of their first base issues. They lost because the recently retired Andy Pettite was the only starting pitcher who was even remotely effective. It's possible that Hughes and Chamberlain will develop into very good starters this year; but it's also possible that they'll struggle as young pitchers are wont to do, and that the Yankees will throw out Chien Ming Wang, Mike Mussina, and Kei Igawa in a short playoff series. If that happens, they won't be making that playoff series.

[plask_stirlac]

He can DH later.

[skyking162]

He can DH later.

Oh boy. A 38 year-old DH who will probably bat somewhere around .260/.360/.440 if he's healthy. Moving a catcher to DH knocks about 20 runs off his value. Not a great solution.

[bigtime39]

It's a terrible contract in terms of length.
Anybody who worries about whether the Yankee$ have enough money to overpay anybody they chose to overpay hasn't been paying attention for a very, very long time. What seems astronomical to you or me is the merest chump change to them.

[plask_stirlac]

Oh boy. A 38 year-old DH who will probably bat somewhere around .260/.360/.440 if he's healthy. Moving a catcher to DH knocks about 20 runs off his value. Not a great solution.

He's been doing better than that as a 140 game catcher.

But they're right they NEED him now. They pretty much need everyone from last year and more from Hughes and Chamberlain or something that will help them win it all, no? If they hadn't signed Rivera they could've sent Cano, Kennedy, Jackson, and Tabata for Nathan with Santana then sign a $6M second bagger.

[BallparkFrank]

Actually, I love the Yankees and the Red Sox too. They are going to enable the Twins to come out smelling like a rose for Santana. We will lose Santana and become better not worse because of the competition between these two teams. Were going to get more good players for one great one. BS isn't going to give up Johan for coco puffs, he has convinced me. if he takes coco puffs then he deserves everyone's utter contempt. He won't. ha , ha, ha. Tori may be watching the Twins in the WS.

[willshad]

If I had to put a guestimate on Posada's production next year, I'd go with...

.275/.380/.490, 20 HR 85 RBI

If you really think you can get a rookie catcher to "about match" that production, you're dreaming.

my point is that it is highly unlikely that Posada will hit at that level even next year, much less for the next 4 seasons. the numbers you posted are about what he did in his prime..and he is 36 years old. in the history of baseball no catcher has ever hit as well at age 36 and beyond as he did in his prime..Bench was retired at that age. Even Fisk whose longevity was legendary found his batting average drop significantly, though he kept his power. I know Posada had a career year last year, but he is at that age when he will totally fall of the table at any time. It is just as likely that he will do a .240/,320/.400 next year as it is that he will post the numbers you posted.

[645]

Is it insane?

Yes

But hey, They are the Yankees.

[digglahhh]

Actually, I love the Yankees and the Red Sox too. They are going to enable the Twins to come out smelling like a rose for Santana. We will lose Santana and become better not worse because of the competition between these two teams. Were going to get more good players for one great one. BS isn't going to give up Johan for coco puffs, he has convinced me. if he takes coco puffs then he deserves everyone's utter contempt. He won't. ha , ha, ha. Tori may be watching the Twins in the WS.

So, if Boston, who already dominated the league last year (with a hurt ManRam) added the best pitcher in baseball (at the expense of the Twins) without giving up any of the key pieces to their continuously high level of success over past few years, this would increase the likelihood of the Twins winning the World Series?...

I think there are a couple of people here who are "high on Crisp."