Does this sound like a fair deal?

[Zagi-CRO]

The Yankees Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy and Phil Hughes have been rumored to be part of a deal for Johan Santana of the Minnesota Twins.

Does this sound like a fair deal for the Yankees ??
------------------------------------------------------
IMO, it's not good for the Yankees.

[plask_stirlac]

Thirty guys have been rumored for Santana. There are many threads about this.

At this point the teams should maybe agree on Robinson Cano and Ian Kennedy plus cash (basically covering their salaries for years to come) for Santana and then they can have Santana-Wang-Hughes-Chamberlain-Pettitte and Cabrera to smile and what not and they can do a little happy dance and the Twins can re-sign Morneau and Cuddyer and pretty much anyone. The Yankees would sign Iguchi, Giles, or someone.

Even if they want to keep Kennedy and send another arm, Cano is a near cost-free for a long time and a candidate for second best second baseman in MLB.

[TonyStarks]

Hughes, Kennedy and Melky for Santana is Highway Robbery.

I don't think this rumor has any substance...there is no way Cashman even entertains this deal. He was reluctant to trade one...now he's willing to trade 2 of the 3? Nah

[monkey333]

Link? I've always heard Hughes or Kennedy+; not both. Both would make no sense.

[ElHalo]

The likely Yankee final offer is going to be Hughes, Cabrera, and pick 'em from their minor league prospects (most likely Austin Jackson, Jose Tabata, or Alan Horne). Both Hughes and Kennedy are simply not happening, unless the Red Sox suddenly decide to offer Lester, Ellsbury, and Buchholz... at which time the Yanks would be better served letting them take Santana.

[digglahhh]

Hughes, Kennedy and Melky for Santana is Highway Robbery.

I don't think this rumor has any substance...there is no way Cashman even entertains this deal. He was reluctant to trade one...now he's willing to trade 2 of the 3? Nah

Yeah, it is... except it's Minnesota who should be dialing 911!

I'd throw a party if Cashman Minny offered this deal to Cash and he'd turn it down.

[digglahhh]

The likely Yankee final offer is going to be Hughes, Cabrera, and pick 'em from their minor league prospects (most likely Austin Jackson, Jose Tabata, or Alan Horne). Both Hughes and Kennedy are simply not happening, unless the Red Sox suddenly decide to offer Lester, Ellsbury, and Buchholz... at which time the Yanks would be better served letting them take Santana.

If Boston gets Santana, they might as well just cancel the next season, hand them the trophy now and save us all some time!

The Yanks would be smart to give up whatever they had to just to ensure he DOESN'T go to Boston.

[ElHalo]

If Boston gets Santana, they might as well just cancel the next season, hand them the trophy now and save us all some time!

The Yanks would be smart to give up whatever they had to just to ensure he DOESN'T go to Boston.

I agree. The Yankees should give up Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Horne, Jackson, Tabata, Cano, Cabrera, and Wang for Santana and Joe Mauer. Then they can move Mauer to first base, start Betemit at second, and put Santana in the bullpen to setup Mariano.

Actually, wait. They probably shouldn't do that. But I think the Yankees will be fine next season with a rotation of Santana, Chamberlain, Wang, Kennedy, and (hopefully) Pettite. Chamberlain to me seems to be the ultimate all-or-nothing prospect... I haven't seen anybody with stuff like his since Pedro in his prime, but he seems like a relatively high injury risk. I can foresee Chamberlain going 18-6 with a 3.20 ERA or only making five starts, but pretty much nothing in between. If he's healthy, the Yanks could have one of the best rotations in baseball.

[digglahhh]

It's the weekend, save your logically-devoid, disingenuous arguments for your legal briefs... or at least until the evening after the beer pong tourney, when they may make sense to me.

EDIT: Oh, that was a joke. I reacted to quickly after reading the first part of the post.

[slugger33]

Whoa...did you say "is this a fair deal to the Yankees" !?! How about...is this a fair deal for the Twins? Trading a couple of unproven pitchers plus an outfielder for a 2-time CYA winner!?!

[cosmo34]

I think it's gonna be funny when the Yanks do everything they can to get Johan, the Sox say "congrats on a job well done" then flip the same deal they offered for Johan and get Dan Haren from the A's.

And then save millions upon millions of dollars when it comes time to sign Haren.

[NYMets523]

It's a steal for the Yankees. Ian Kennedy has bad mechanics which will lead him down a road filled with injuries. Melky's not that great either. He's never hit close to .300 despite practically every Yankee fan saying he can.

[plask_stirlac]

I think it's gonna be funny when the Yanks do everything they can to get Johan, the Sox say "congrats on a job well done" then flip the same deal they offered for Johan and get Dan Haren from the A's.

And then save millions upon millions of dollars when it comes time to sign Haren.

Saving money counts in this rivalry? Dan Haren is no Johan Santana. Haren is most famous for his first-half ERA this year of 2.30. Santana's career ERA in the second-half is 2.79, highlighted by 1.21 in 2004. Santana has a career 3.21 for season NRA, Haren has a 4.13.

It's one thing to trust Haren to post an ERA under 3.50 again, it's quite another to expect him to do it Boston. Maybe in New York since that is rating as a pitcher's park. Santana has a 3.17 ERA at home and 3.27 on the road.

If they're making an offer, why not bid for Ben Sheets while he is expensive and looks bad? Same stats as Haren, lower price maybe. Nurse him like Beckett. They want 6-man pitching, don't they? Trade Bucholz and get an even better curveball. He might be rough going into the AL and Fenway, I must admit.

[Walt Zink]

I don't see how Haren couldn't pitch well in Boston. I say that because we have the example of Josh Beckett. Comes from the NL, his ERA balloons to what, 5? But this season, if he wins that last start, we're talking the AL Cy Young winner. Haren's not the bulldog that Beckett is, but I doubt you'd see his ERA balloon the same way. He's winless at Fenway (0-3, 4.60) but otherwise, I can't see the problem with signing him.

Although some execs say that Santana will be dealt, if I were the Yankees or Red Sox, I would hold onto the prospects, and wait until Santana becomes a free agent. Especially in the Yankees' case, they shouldn't give it all away in terms of their future for one guy. They have an aging core of guys all around the diamond, so they'd probably be best served going with what they have.

Also, the Red Sox may be in the better position to pay Santana. If you look through their line-up, yes, you have the high payouts to certain players, but wiith Crisp, Papelbon, Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, and Delcarmen all signed for quite a few years and Youkilis currently on the cheap, they have a little more wiggle room. They got Lowell for about 2$ million less a year than most thought he'd sign, this is the last year of Ramirez' contract (not sure of player or team options), and I believe the same goes for 'Tek. Financially, they're in pretty good shape, not to mention have a much stronger farm system than the Yankees right now, and that's been developed since Dan Duquette left.

[NYMets523]

His ERA sucked in September because he had a couple bad games. His final start he only went 3 innings. If he went more, it would not have been so bad.

[skyking162]

Santana's 2008 salary -- something near his $13 million 2007 salary
Hughes/Kennedy/Melky's 2008 combines salaries -- about $1.5 million

Santana's length of contract -- 1 year
Hughes/Kennedy/Melky's combined length of contract -- 16 years

----------

Santana is a great player, on track for a Hall of Fame career. But when judging a player's value to his team, you have to consider other factors than just talent. i.e. what you have to pay for that talent and how long you get it for. The combination of Hughes, Kennedy and Melky should be worth about as many wins as Santana alone, leaving at least $12 million available to sign whatever the Yankees think they need: bullpen help, a veteran league-average starter, or Adam Dunn at the trade deadline.

[TonyStarks]

It's a steal for the Yankees. Ian Kennedy has bad mechanics which will lead him down a road filled with injuries. Melky's not that great either. He's never hit close to .300 despite practically every Yankee fan saying he can.



I have never heard any say IPK has bad mechanic and honestly...I'm more worried that Joba Chamberlain over Hughes and IPK will be the first one hurt.

As for Melky, he's an above average CF at 21! I'm talking about his glove and his arm here. The guy is capable of hitting .300 but if I had to peg him, I say he's going to be a .285 - .310 hitter when he peaks.

[TonyStarks]

Santana's 2008 salary -- something near his $13 million 2007 salary
Hughes/Kennedy/Melky's 2008 combines salaries -- about $1.5 million

Santana's length of contract -- 1 year
Hughes/Kennedy/Melky's combined length of contract -- 16 years

----------

Santana is a great player, on track for a Hall of Fame career. But when judging a player's value to his team, you have to consider other factors than just talent. i.e. what you have to pay for that talent and how long you get it for. The combination of Hughes, Kennedy and Melky should be worth about as many wins as Santana alone, leaving at least $12 million available to sign whatever the Yankees think they need: bullpen help, a veteran league-average starter, or Adam Dunn at the trade deadline.

If the Twins insist on Phil Hughes then the Yanks should throw up a STOP sign and tell'em to take IPK, Melky, PTBNL and call it a day.

If they refuse then take the Lester, Crisp, Lowrie deal which is less than the Yankees deal with IPK and also an expensive deal for the Twins since Crisp will cost about $5M this season and probably $6M next.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Could a mod change my vote to no?

[NYMets523]

I have never heard any say IPK has bad mechanic and honestly...I'm more worried that Joba Chamberlain over Hughes and IPK will be the first one hurt.
Now you have. He'll be the first one injured because of them.

As for Melky, he's an above average CF at 21! I'm talking about his glove and his arm here. The guy is capable of hitting .300 but if I had to peg him, I say he's going to be a .285 - .310 hitter when he peaks.

He's average at 23 (which he will be next season). He has a 294 BA in the minor leagues. He's not come close to 300 and his OBP declined this year from playing more often.

[plask_stirlac]

Santana and Beckett are better for Boston and the AL East because they have the stuff to make guys miss, they strike out over 8 per 9. Haren hasn't, and also gives up the long ball (in Oakland!). Haren is more like a young Buehrle than Santana. That's fine but not legendary. I think Haren is "pitching to contact" with all the A's investment in defense and the pitcher's park, which is fine and for three months he was "shut-down" plus he always has high IP, but that is a tough style to transfer. He isn't Maddux or Kevin Brown, either.

I didn't think Beckett was going to improve as much as he did, it's quite a feat. The +1 ERA or more from the NL is expected. Then it all "clicked" this year AND he avoided blisters, surprisingly. If he were a 4.3 ERA guy with no more blisters that would've been an improvement and he would've won 16 or so. Pretty much two areas of great success and they worked together. Better pitch selection and what not, did wonders.

Santana's 2008 salary -- something near his $13 million 2007 salary
Hughes/Kennedy/Melky's 2008 combines salaries -- about $1.5 million

Santana's length of contract -- 1 year
Hughes/Kennedy/Melky's combined length of contract -- 16 years

----------

Santana is a great player, on track for a Hall of Fame career. But when judging a player's value to his team, you have to consider other factors than just talent. i.e. what you have to pay for that talent and how long you get it for. The combination of Hughes, Kennedy and Melky should be worth about as many wins as Santana alone, leaving at least $12 million available to sign whatever the Yankees think they need: bullpen help, a veteran league-average starter, or Adam Dunn at the trade deadline.

They haven't offered that.

So three players (roster spots) giving the same wins as one player is good for a team with an entire network bringing in revenue?

A lot of these prospects and young players are not going to do anything special. I mean Dallas McPherson and Jeff Mathis? Bobby Crosby and Rocco Baldelli? Brian Anderson CF for the Sox? Felix Pie didn't exactly shine. Johan would not have fetched Mathis, Ervin, and Mathis after 2004 or 205 I bet but that now would be one of the ten worst trades ever (ignore Mathis is squeezed by Mauer). I'm not sure how many of Kennedy, Hughes, Tabata, Bucholz, Ellsbury, and Chamberlain will disappoint but some will. Lester and Cabrera are overrated.

If they want their pitching, just trade Cano and sign a good second baseman.

[-Kyle-]

Lester and Cabrera are overrated.

I feel that way too. I love Lester and am very proud of him, but he hasn't had an outstanding whip in the minor leagues, and his stuff isn't downright nasty.

[plask_stirlac]

Don't get me wrong, I'd be glad to have Lester and/or Cabrera but I don't want to pay too much for their value, which so far has been decent but no more.

[Zagi-CRO]

Link? I've always heard Hughes or Kennedy+; not both. Both would make no sense.


The newest articles:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Yanks-will-include-Hughes-in-deal-for-Santana;_ylt=AlGEIOvavxqy19qvnJrCRlipu7YF?urn=mlb, 55814
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ag2ESouC.BsPrWquVBGCaI0RvLYF?slug=ap-wintermeetings&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Zagi-CRO]

Whoa...did you say "is this a fair deal to the Yankees" !?! How about...is this a fair deal for the Twins? Trading a couple of unproven pitchers plus an outfielder for a 2-time CYA winner!?!


:dance so it's unfair deal for both of them, the Yankess and the Twins??

[slugger33]

:dance so it's unfair deal for both of them, the Yankess and the Twins??
No, it's only unfair for the Twins IMO. Sure they are getting a couple of good prospects. Anything can happen with them though, Santana is already a sure thing.

[Charger567]

Don't get me wrong, I'd be glad to have Lester and/or Cabrera but I don't want to pay too much for their value, which so far has been decent but no more.

Agree with Cabrera, disagree with Lester.

Cabrera hasn't shown any significant talent, and has only put up average numbers.

Lester has shown he has the stuff, and I think he will have a sub 4 ERA next year.

[NYMets523]

Lester hasn't shown much.

[plask_stirlac]

Lester has shown "stuff" but also enough times messing up to come back to average. He's also showing that his minor-league 1.31 WHIP, and higher in AAA, is carrying through to where it would jump in MLB. Now that major leaguers are depositing more souvenirs in the stands on (probably) mistakes, his ERA has jumped.

The cancer circumstance is certainly worth noting and he did show improvement in 2007.

I can probably compare, other than age, Cabrera and Lester to Tyner and Scott Baker and nobody would care too much about them in a trade. :shrug:

[Walt Zink]

Personally, I think the Sox would make out wonderfully on this deal. That's if it stands as Lester, Crisp, and Lowrie (plus the 4th). Lester was that guy that at times showed great stuff, but then he got into the mode of pitching to not lose, rather than pitching to win. The high pitch counts sort of tell the story.

Crisp? Well, I think he got robbed for a Gold Glove this year. He could've won it over Sizemore or Hunter, but that award is somewhat of a joke 50% of the time. Crisp was incredible defensively this year. Ellsbury shows a lot of promise in that role, and I would much rather keep him, though. That speed is unbelievable. Scoring from second on a wild pitch was something I didn't think I would ever see.

As for the Yanks pitching prospects, Chamberlain throws hard. Despite what all Yankees fans tell me, I'm not terribly impressed. His minor meltdown in that Indians game, when other pitchers kept their composure in such an odd situation, tells me a little. I can see him getting hurt, but if he learns to pitch? Then I'd be sold. Otherwise, despite the lights out end to the year, I could be one of few that wasn't all that impressed with him. Partially due to the two pitches over Youk's head, but you know :)

[ElHalo]

As for the Yanks pitching prospects, Chamberlain throws hard. Despite what all Yankees fans tell me, I'm not terribly impressed. His minor meltdown in that Indians game, when other pitchers kept their composure in such an odd situation, tells me a little. I can see him getting hurt, but if he learns to pitch? Then I'd be sold. Otherwise, despite the lights out end to the year, I could be one of few that wasn't all that impressed with him. Partially due to the two pitches over Youk's head, but you know :)

The big question mark with Chamberlain is whether he can stay healthy, and it's a legitimate question. There's a very real chance that he can't. But assuming he does stay healthy, he's the best pitching prospect to come along in quite some time. It's impossible not to be impressed... he's got that 98 mph fastball that hits triple digits, that absolutely vicious slider that moves about two feet off the plate, and an average curveball that just shocks you because it's about 20 mph slower than his other pitches. If he can get command of his changeup, he'll be the best "stuff" pitcher in baseball since Pedro in his prime... but the chances of him blowing out his arm are relatively high. High risk / high reward.

And as far as him throwing at Youk... do you remember how many times Pedro used to hit Jeter on the hands? It was like several times a season. There's nothing wrong with a pitcher being intimidating.

[Walt Zink]

And as far as him throwing at Youk... do you remember how many times Pedro used to hit Jeter on the hands? It was like several times a season. There's nothing wrong with a pitcher being intimidating.

Throwing at the hands? That's one thing. TWO pitches that hit high 90's over a player's head? COMPLETELY different. I have friends that are Yankees fans that were even disgusted by that. That's messing with essentially the player's life. And I never bought the "slipped" comment from Joba or Torre, either. When you're lights out in every appearance, and that fastball is the one pitch he can spot very well, despite throwing it so hard, and then two pitches "slip"? I was glad he got tossed and knew the suspension was coming.

And as far as a comparison could go? Zumaya. Chamberlain could be another Zumaya, and I think the Yanks babied him with Zumaya and his health as a fresh reminder.