Twins for sale !

[BallparkFrank]

Come one come all - Who wants one of our star players. All are available except Joe, as he is a local hero. Tori is gone so he isn't available, but we still have Johan S - the best starting pitcher in baseball, Nathan - probably the best closer in baseball, Silva - a solid 3rd starter, Morneau - a slugging, good fielding first baseman, prone to slumps but dominating when he is hot, we won't sign him to a long term contract so offer us a couple of promising collegians + an aging homerun hitter with a couple of years left. Cuddeyer - not a superstar but a very good outfielder with pop who we won't give a long term deal to for even like $ 7 -8 m for four years. He will cost a average 3rd baseman (like Corie Koskie - oops he can be had cheap, do the Twins know that ?) and a decent prospect, you know .250, 10 homers, but loads of potential.

[Mattingly]

What would you ask for if the Yanks wanted Johan Santana and Justin Morneau? I have strong doubts about getting both, but I'm very interested in pitching.

I know those are two top players (especially Santana), but I'd like to know what the price would be in your case?

[BallparkFrank]

5 -6 good prospects. Maybe Cabrera, and your second baseman as two of those five. The way the Twins look at it is if two become good they are even, and they save big money by having these guys while they are young/ then in 5 years hit repeat. They already have a new ballpark coming.

[doane]

In an article on The Hardball Times, a writer proposed a deal of Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit, Shelley Duncan and Darrell Rasner for Johan Santana.

The argument being that it's not as impressive as other deals, but considering the budget-consciousness of the Twins and their draft strategy, it's a lot better than a couple draft picks.

[plask_stirlac]

In an article on The Hardball Times, a writer proposed a deal of Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit, Shelley Duncan and Darrell Rasner for Johan Santana.

The argument being that it's not as impressive as other deals, but considering the budget-consciousness of the Twins and their draft strategy, it's a lot better than a couple draft picks.

Shouldn't the Twins get at least one undeniably good player?

[Westlake]

In an article on The Hardball Times, a writer proposed a deal of Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit, Shelley Duncan and Darrell Rasner for Johan Santana.

The argument being that it's not as impressive as other deals, but considering the budget-consciousness of the Twins and their draft strategy, it's a lot better than a couple draft picks.

And i've got to say, that was probably the dumbest article i've ever seen on that website.

[Mike27]

In an article on The Hardball Times, a writer proposed a deal of Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit, Shelley Duncan and Darrell Rasner for Johan Santana.

The argument being that it's not as impressive as other deals, but considering the budget-consciousness of the Twins and their draft strategy, it's a lot better than a couple draft picks.

If the Twins, for some reason, accepted this deal, I might have a heart attack. Can you please post this article?

[NYMets523]

In an article on The Hardball Times, a writer proposed a deal of Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit, Shelley Duncan and Darrell Rasner for Johan Santana.

The argument being that it's not as impressive as other deals, but considering the budget-consciousness of the Twins and their draft strategy, it's a lot better than a couple draft picks.

Just because the Twins are cheap doesn't mean they'll take 4 scrubs for the best pitcher in baseball.

[BallparkFrank]

The Twins will take what they can get. If I was the Yankees or whoever I'd let the Twins panic and get Johan for cheap. Now that the Twins are only getting a couple draft picks for Tori they are in a panic that the same will happen with Johan. How a smart team became so incredibly stupid so fast is hard to understand, however, considering Ryan resigned as general manager and one of the top scouts, Larry corrigan, went elsewhere means to me that these guys weren't getting the right answers when they ask the Pohlads ? This is a team in serious decline which looks as if they are the KC Royals of the last 10 years. I'm bummed !!!!!

[Mattingly]

In an article on The Hardball Times, a writer proposed a deal of Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit, Shelley Duncan and Darrell Rasner for Johan Santana.

The argument being that it's not as impressive as other deals, but considering the budget-consciousness of the Twins and their draft strategy, it's a lot better than a couple draft picks.
My personal feeling is that some of the other teams will have a hard time signing Santana to the type of contract that he's looking for. I have no doubts that Boston can match any Yankee offer, but will they do the deal on the contract? Any team could send their whole roster down to the Twin Cities, but since Santana has a full no-trade, he can just veto any trade and you'd be starting all over again.

I've heard today that the Twins were interested in either of Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy + Melky Cabrera + prospect. If so, I'd see if Kennedy + Cabrera + Tabata would get it done.

Betemit & Duncan are bench guys, and Rasner is likely a reliever. Someone has to have some type of "A" or "B+" value in there. Unless we trade Hughes, Chamberlain, Cano or Wang, none of those guys would do much to further any negotiations.

[sds416]

In the end, the Twins will make out just fine, if anything they will come out ahead ultimately. They cannot afford Santana, pure and simple. So, they are faced with the choice of letting their most valuable asset walk away or get something in return for him.

If the Yankees are agreeable to Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata, thats a great deal for the Twins. All will be very affordable for an extended period of time. Cabrera is a proven MLB CF, he plugs straight into the lineup and takes Hunter's spot. Hughes adds to a wealth of young arms they have, and potentially makes the Twins able to flip someone like Garza for another need, ie. an infielder (especially with Lariano coming back and Blackburn and Duensing just about ready at the AAA level). Tabata is probably a year away, but projects to be a very good corner outfielder. It's also been speculated that the Yankees might include some cash in the deal, which could be used to sign a FA in a spot of need or at least help offset the cost of a free agent signing for a position of need. If the Yankees are insistant on trading Kennedy instead of Hughes, the Twins need to get a little more in the deal, maybe Jackson or additional cash.

[insanefishpossay]

They cannot afford Santana, pure and simple. So, they are faced with the choice of letting their most valuable asset walk away or get something in return for him.

A man with $2.6 billion in his bank account cannot afford Johan Santana? As much as I hate the man, I have to admire him simply for his ability to fool the entire baseball-world into thinking Minnesota is a "small market."

[sds416]

A man with $2.6 billion in his bank account cannot afford Johan Santana? As much as I hate the man, I have to admire him simply for his ability to fool the entire baseball-world into thinking Minnesota is a "small market."

And where is it written that he has to spend every dime of that on his baseball team?

I tend to agree with his way of thinking, there is no way Santana is worth the money that they are talking about him getting. No way in hell. Even a large market team like the Yankees will never reap enough revenue based on his presence to recover the costs of the contract. Its simple economics.

The Twins aren't going to win a world series with Santana. But they can use Santana to contend. If they can move him for the right position players, and then have the flexability to use cash saved to go out and sign the right FA's, and if the young pitching continues to mature at a steady rate, the trade of Santana now could be richly rewarded very shortly down the line. This team hung on to the back end of the wild card race right up until the deadline last season, with a team that has admitted weaknesses at several key spots. If those spots can be repaired through this process, and the overall team improved, its a no brainer.

[KCGHOST]

The Twins have a good front office. If you want Santana two years before his free agency then be prepared to pay for it. At his current level of performance there isn't a team in the game who wouldn't gladly take on Santana's salary (sorry Yanks no Abreu robberies here). And no one is going get him for an average CF and three mediocre prospects.

It's pay up or shut up time.

[NYMets523]

Santana is 1 year away from FA. And the team getting him first has to give him an extension offer. If he approves it, the Twins decide on what they're being offered.

[insanefishpossay]

And where is it written that he has to spend every dime of that on his baseball team?

It's not, and I have no problem with him not wanting to lose a ton of money on the Twins year after year. However, it's simply ridiculous for a man who's by far the richest owner in major league baseball to continuously give his team one of the smallest payrolls to work with. We have a great group of players right now, but if he's not committed to putting a winning product on the field then he has no business owning a baseball team.

I tend to agree with his way of thinking, there is no way Santana is worth the money that they are talking about him getting. No way in hell. Even a large market team like the Yankees will never reap enough revenue based on his presence to recover the costs of the contract. Its simple economics.

I normally wouldn't be so angry over this situation, but this is more an accumulation of smaller events like this. There were many, many, many times over the last few years where we lost key players (who weren't even close to superstar status) because we were unwilling to spend an extra million or two. Corey Koskie, LaTroy Hawkins, Eddie Guardado, and Jacque Jones come to mind just off the top of my head.

The Twins aren't going to win a world series with Santana.

Have you seen the Twins lately? Sure, they had some offensive struggles this year, but with Mauer/Morneau/Cuddyer we have a very potent (and YOUNG) group of players. If Liriano can return to anywhere near his 2006 form and Carlos Silva can continue to put up solid numbers, the Twins will have one of the best 1-2-3 starting combos in the majors (and Baker/Garza don't make for a bad 4-5 combo either). We also have one of the best closers in the majors as a part of one of the best bullpens in the majors. The Twins have an amazing nucleus of young players, and are one or two key pieces away from being a serious world-series threat.

and then have the flexability to use cash saved to go out and sign the right FA's,

The "right" FA's such as Sidney Ponson, Ramon Ortiz, Rondell White, and Tony Batista? I sure hope we free up some more cash so we can sign some more star-veterans... who knows, maybe this year our key FA-acquisitions will actually play well enough to stay on the roster past the all-star break!

and if the young pitching continues to mature at a steady rate, the trade of Santana now could be richly rewarded very shortly down the line.

This is what the Twins have been telling us for the last decade. "Stick with us, our young players will develop, and the fans will be greatly rewarded in the long run." Now, our players have actually grown and developed, and our upper-management decides to have a fire sale. Back during the stadium-financing debates, the fans were told that a new stadium would give us an increased payroll so that we could afford to retain key players. I only wish Mr.Billionaire Owner would have told us he had no intention on re-signing Torii Hunter or Johan Santana before getting the state to use taxpayer money to fund his new stadium. :rolleyes:

[Knick9]

This is what the Twins have been telling us for the last decade. "Stick with us, our young players will develop, and the fans will be greatly rewarded in the long run." Now, our players have actually grown and developed, and our upper-management decides to have a fire sale. Back during the stadium-financing debates, the fans were told that a new stadium would give us an increased payroll so that we could afford to retain key players. I only wish Mr.Billionaire Owner would have told us he had no intention on re-signing Torii Hunter or Johan Santana before getting the state to use taxpayer money to fund his new stadium. :rolleyes:

It sounds alot like some other teams in MLB. :rolleyes:

Here we go again with the Yankees and Red Sox getting every star player known around the country. I don't believe a single word Hank Steinbrenner says. He's always doing the opposite of what's being said.

[Milt on Tilt]

That additional revenue isn't going to be coming in for another 2 years. If I were running a business I don't think I would spend money today that I expect to be coming in 2 years down the road. Yes, Carl Pohlad is pretty cheap, but he is a very savvy businessman.

[mojorisin71]

Twins for sale?

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/e/e0/200px-MPW-7352.jpg

[bigtime39]

Rich people never, never, never...spend their own money. They either spend other people's money, or they don't spend.

(The "artistic" rich are generally excluded from this rule. Those poor ******** generally end up bankrupt...and feeding the tills of the non-artistic rich.)

[Mattingly]

A man with $2.6 billion in his bank account cannot afford Johan Santana? As much as I hate the man, I have to admire him simply for his ability to fool the entire baseball-world into thinking Minnesota is a "small market."
Which other teams or businesses does he own? I know that Detroit's Mike Illyitch (spl?) also owns the NHL's Red Wings.

[Mattingly]

In the end, the Twins will make out just fine, if anything they will come out ahead ultimately. They cannot afford Santana, pure and simple. So, they are faced with the choice of letting their most valuable asset walk away or get something in return for him.

If the Yankees are agreeable to Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata, thats a great deal for the Twins. All will be very affordable for an extended period of time. Cabrera is a proven MLB CF, he plugs straight into the lineup and takes Hunter's spot. Hughes adds to a wealth of young arms they have, and potentially makes the Twins able to flip someone like Garza for another need, ie. an infielder (especially with Lariano coming back and Blackburn and Duensing just about ready at the AAA level). Tabata is probably a year away, but projects to be a very good corner outfielder. It's also been speculated that the Yankees might include some cash in the deal, which could be used to sign a FA in a spot of need or at least help offset the cost of a free agent signing for a position of need. If the Yankees are insistant on trading Kennedy instead of Hughes, the Twins need to get a little more in the deal, maybe Jackson or additional cash.
From when the Yanks traded Dioner Novarro (C) and Javier Vazquez to the D-Backs for Randy Johnson, I remember Brian Cashman telling the Snakes that they could either have Novarro and less cash thrown in (either on the remainder of Vazquez' contract or taking in the rest of Unit's contract) or the Snakes could pay less and get lesser prospects. The theory here is that you paid less, you got a lesser player.

That's basically how the Yanks got Bobby Abreu: they sent players who weren't very valuable to Philly in exchange for picking up 100% of the remainder of Abreu's contract.

In today's market (as to how the Yanks do things), I believe they'd much rather give more cash over to Minnesota and keep Hughes. If it were legal, I'm sure they'd just take a straight cash deal, but obviously, that wouldn't be allowed.

Am I still dreaming to think that Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a prospect such as Jose Tabata or Austin Jackson could pull this off (for Santana)?

I'm still curious as to which other teams could actually sign Santana to a contract extension, therefore allowing the trade to occur.

[plask_stirlac]

1) The Twins don't have a small payroll, it's middle of the pack.
2) They've tripled it since 2001 ($24M) when they showed life.
3) They would have had to make Torii Hunter one of the four highest-paid players in baseball (per year) and that average until he's 36/37. What a joke.