Best 2008 rotation

[ElHalo]

I know it's early yet, but I figured this could be a fun thing to think about. Using very early, unsubstantiated projected rotations, assuming mostly that FA's will stay put:

Red Sox: Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Schilling, Wakefield
Yankees: Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Pettite, Kennedy
Blue Jays: Halladay, Burnett, McGowan, Litch, Marcum
Twins: Santana, Liriano, Bonzer, Garza, Silva
Tigers: Verlander, Robinson, Bonderman, Rogers, Maroth
A's: Haren, Harden, Blanton, Gaudin, DiNardo
Padres: Peavy, Young, Maddux, Germano, ?

My money's on the Red Sox, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that the Yankees could have four starters with ERA's in the 3.50 range... with the oldest being Chien-Ming Wang at 28.

[Westlake]

I know it's early yet, but I figured this could be a fun thing to think about. Using very early, unsubstantiated projected rotations, assuming mostly that FA's will stay put:

Red Sox: Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Schilling, Wakefield
Yankees: Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Pettite, Kennedy
Blue Jays: Halladay, Burnett, McGowan, Litch, Marcum
Twins: Santana, Liriano, Bonzer, Garza, Silva
Tigers: Verlander, Robinson, Bonderman, Rogers, Maroth
A's: Haren, Harden, Blanton, Gaudin, DiNardo
Padres: Peavy, Young, Maddux, Germano, ?

My money's on the Red Sox, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that the Yankees could have four starters with ERA's in the 3.50 range... with the oldest being Chien-Ming Wang at 28.

Clay Buchholz will probably be in the rotation before Lester/Wakefield is.

The way you have them here, I think the A's, Sox, and Twins have very good rotations (You're missing the Angels, maybe Tribe if they can get Lee back at full force), with the Padres and Blue Jays behind them. I think you're dreaming if you think 4 Yankee starters are going to have a 3.50 ERA. Not even their best starter had that this past year.

Silve is unlikely to be a Twin next year, and I really have no idea who Robinson (Tigers) is.

[Chi]

Toronto's rotation was excellent in 2007 and will be again in 2008 - if Halladay doesnt miss a month or so it will be even better.

Boston, imo, will get a better year out of Matsuzaka this time, Lester has shown flashes of brilliance, and Beckett is Beckett. Schilling and Wakefield are to me the weakest links there, and that's not bad. Strong contendor.

For the Twins, Santana will be as good as ever, and Garza should give them a lift as well. I wouldn't put them alongside the Sox and Jays.

Yankees could be very competitive if Pettite stays. His leadership on a pitching staff is much more valuable than his actual pitching (though the pitching isn't too shabby either, even now that he's aging).

Oakland has Haren. They also had a rotation-wide meltdown post-All Star Break in 2007. If that doesn't repeat in '08, should be competitive...

Tigers are alright, but I don't think they're on the same level as, again, the Jays or Sox.

Padres... that could be interesting. Peavy's great, Mad Dog is still good, the others aren't bad themselves. They could be very competitive...

My money is on the Blue Jays.

[rdonahue]

Tigers: Verlander, Robinson, Bonderman, Rogers, Maroth


I don't know about my Tigers. Verlander is good, but Robertson (not Robinson) is all over the place, Bonderman has never been able to put a full season together, Rogers may or may not resign (Yahoo had a story the other day saying the two sides have parted ways...I've heard nothing of this elsewhere though), and Maroth is long gone. The 5th starter is likely Andrew Miller whose career is quickly being ruined as he's been given virtually no time in the minor leagues to develop.

[Milt on Tilt]

And there is a very good chance that the Twins starting rotation will feature neither Santana or Silva.

[Chi]

And there is a very good chance that the Twins starting rotation will feature neither Santana or Silva.

I'm banking on them not having Santana. :) I want him for my Mariners.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

The two best pitchers in the AL this season should both be suiting up for the Tribe again NEXT season. That puts them up there with any team, as far as starting pitching goes.

[jsmets92]

If none are traded, Cain, Lincecum, Zito, Lowry, and Sanchez would be up there

Also, Lackey, Escobar, Weaver, Saunders and Santana

[NYMets523]

Yankees: Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Pettite, Kennedy


Best? Try Most Unproven.

Mets' rotation has a chance to be good if they land a #1-#2 starter.

Dodgers with Penny, Lowe, Schmidt, Loaiza, and Billingsley could be good.

[digglahhh]

Best? Try Most Unproven.

Mets' rotation has a chance to be good if they land a #1-#2 starter.

This, my friends, is what is called irony.

What are the Mets if not unproven? Maine and Perez are proven? Pedro certainly is, but he's another year older and it is unclear whether the injury is behind him (he pitched well, sure, but over a limited number of innings, a year's workload is not a given).

I think EH certainly overstated the realistic prospects of the Yankee staff. I stayed away and let others make the criticisms, knowing the way the Mets avatar would play in the discussion. I wouldn't have even dreamed of touting the Mets rotation as a candidate here. There's plenty of talent, sure, but I'd project numerous staffs ahead of them.

Oh, yeah, and they'd be good if the added a number one starter, of course. In other news, Jessica Simpson would be a good catch if she inherited Steven Hawking's mind!

[Chi]

Best? Try Most Unproven.

Mets' rotation has a chance to be good if they land a #1-#2 starter.

Dodgers with Penny, Lowe, Schmidt, Loaiza, and Billingsley could be good.

Dodgers are also looking at Hiroki Kuroda, who would probably be a good addition.

They could be very good.

Ytown, I think you have a point. People are overlooking Cleveland, and Cleveland pitched its way into the playoffs once already with its current rotation.

Part of it is bias as a Mariners fan, but I think the Angels pitching staff is really overrated. Lackey is good (though he has always struck me as greasy somehow), Escobar is good (but he gets flustered easily). Weaver isn't very dominating, though he had a good year. Saunders and Santana, well... that's not a very convincing end.

[NYMets523]

This, my friends, is what is called irony.

What are the Mets if not unproven? Maine and Perez are proven? Pedro certainly is, but he's another year older and it is unclear whether the injury is behind him (he pitched well, sure, but over a limited number of innings, a year's workload is not a given).

I think EH certainly overstated the realistic prospects of the Yankee staff. I stayed away and let others make the criticisms, knowing the way the Mets avatar would play in the discussion. I wouldn't have even dreamed of touting the Mets rotation as a candidate here. There's plenty of talent, sure, but I'd project numerous staffs ahead of them.

Oh, yeah, and they'd be good if the added a number one starter, of course. In other news, Jessica Simpson would be a good catch if she inherited Steven Hawking's mind!

Perez, despite his few blow up games, pitched very well overall (he was the Mets' ERA leader). Maine's had a dead arm in the second half. I think Pedro will be healthy enough to pitch like a #2. He is a year older but he's also much healthier. El Duque is good when he's healthy.

They won't have the best rotation in baseball but it will at least be Top 5 in the league.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I'd put the Jays as a good sleeper pick. If Marcum and McGowan continue to improve over last season, and AJ Burnett can actually pitch the majority of a season (unlikely, but we can hope...) then they'll definitley be up there. But there are a few if's.

As it stands, I'd say that it's a tie between the Red Sox and the Tribe. Both have great Aces, and solid pitching the whole way through. Not many holes in either rotation. Dodgers are in the same category as the Jays, with Schmidt being the big question mark.

As for the Yankees, lets just say they have alot of work to do, and they had better hope for a great season out of at least two of: Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy or Clippard.

[Westlake]

The two best pitchers in the AL this season should both be suiting up for the Tribe again NEXT season. That puts them up there with any team, as far as starting pitching goes.

Yawn. Two-fifths of a rotation? Best 2 pitchers in the AL? They really showed it in the playoffs.

[ChrisLDuncan]

If none are traded, Cain, Lincecum, Zito, Lowry, and Sanchez would be up there

Also, Lackey, Escobar, Weaver, Saunders and Santana

Lincecum is going to be a beast next season. I am predictiong sub 2 ERA and 280 Ks. I am very very high on this kid.

[Solrac]

They do have The 2007 Cy-Young Winner with 2 15-Game winner(And 1 14-Game Winner) In Their Rotation...They should be Atleast Considered...More Than The Redsox And Yankees I Think

[DodgerBlue8188]

Best? Try Most Unproven.

Mets' rotation has a chance to be good if they land a #1-#2 starter.

Dodgers with Penny, Lowe, Schmidt, Loaiza, and Billingsley could be good.


Billingsly is going to have an awesome year. He will probably win 15 games next season. Consider him a number 2 starter IMO. If he had started all year Dodgers would have won the division.

[Zagi-CRO]

The best 2008 rotation could be:
Boston --> Beckett - Matsuzaka - Lester - Buchholz - Papelbon :bowdown:
and
CHC --> Zambrano - Lilly - Hill - Marshall - Dempster

[Zagi-CRO]

The Tigers have so-so rotation
Verlander - Bonderman ... ok
but others are so-so
Robertson is a mediocre starter, Kenny Rogers is old... they traded Jurrjens, maybe Tata, Durbin, Miller ?

[tigers527]

I don't know about my Tigers. Verlander is good, but Robertson (not Robinson) is all over the place, Bonderman has never been able to put a full season together, Rogers may or may not resign (Yahoo had a story the other day saying the two sides have parted ways...I've heard nothing of this elsewhere though), and Maroth is long gone. The 5th starter is likely Andrew Miller whose career is quickly being ruined as he's been given virtually no time in the minor leagues to develop.


The thread assumes all the FA will stay put for now. So, it's Rogers we get. IMO the reason that Andrew Miller sometimes struggles is not lack of Minor league experience it is his landing foot in his delivery. Instead of driving his front foot toward home plate he lands between home plate and 1st base. The one thing that does is put his release point even further away from the center line then it would be especially considering his 6'6" frame. Probably making a left handed batter have pause about facing a guy thats release point is behind you and the ball ends up on the outside corner. Think Jamie Walker only a foot taller. While this works when all the mechanics work out, it is a tough delivery to duplicate over and over through the course of a whole game. Which explains even on Millers good days he had a rough time getting through 5 innings with less then 110 pitches.

Ok, enough Tigers possible 5th starter mintuia. I do think that the Tigers certainly have an argument to be the tops in this thread. Keep in mind the 2006 rotations numbers. There is not much change between the 2 rotations assuming that Rogers can come back strong. The health of the rotation and the bullpen last year put the entire staff in positions they were not familar with. This year the Tigers are off to a bad start with what happened to Zumaya, but we are just talking of rotation right now. If everyone else can stay healthy I don't see why the Tigers could not have the best 5 out there?

The trade of Jair Jurjjens should show that. The Tigers gave up a guy that was going to have to BATTLE to get that 5th spot. That same guy is slotted 3rd-4th spot with the ATL. It shows the depth in the rotation the Tigers have. The Tigers 6th-8th guys could probably land the 5th spot on most teams rotations. While depth does not mean the Tigers 1-5 is the better then the rest in certainly gives them a leg up on 4-6.

[digglahhh]

Perez, despite his few blow up games, pitched very well overall (he was the Mets' ERA leader). Maine's had a dead arm in the second half. I think Pedro will be healthy enough to pitch like a #2. He is a year older but he's also much healthier. El Duque is good when he's healthy.

They won't have the best rotation in baseball but it will at least be Top 5 in the league.

Top 5 in the league - NL or MLB?

Could a "dead arm period" be a euphemism for not being strong enough to pitch 200+ innings at near-optimal level?

That's not a horrible thing, btw. He's still young (inexperienced) enough, and guys are usually able to build up their workloads as they mature. Also, his stellar beginning of last season was accompanied by a flukish and unsustainable BABIP - that is to say that even if he pitched that way again, it is unlikely to generate the same results. Maine is good - I like him, and i'm glad he's a part of the Mets, but he's not a sure bet. Call it a "dead arm period" or whatever you will, he stunk for most of the last two months of the season.

Perez is the guy I actually have more confidence in. His problems seemed to be mental. Success begets success with Perez. His stuff is great, and as long as he keeps in it the vicinity of the plate, he'll be good. It seems like Peterson (or whoever) has made good strides there, which result in success. As long as he pitches well, he will likely continue to do so - his problem is the "blow up" and the more often it happens, the most often it will continue to happen in the future. He did though have that awesome season in '04, and then regress, so he's not out of the woods yet.

Pedro will be Pedro and we can only hope that he will be Pedro for 180 innings and not 80.

Duque's good when he's healthy, and Britney Spears is a good mother when sober. The guy pitched 200 innings once in his career, and that was like nine years ago!

Here's the biggest problem - the Mets don't have a single pitcher they can bank on for 200 IP. The bullpen will be so crucial to this team's success.

The Mets have as many questions in their rotation as anybody. Their potential may be greater than most, a lot of things have to work out for that potential to be actualized.

[tigers527]

The Tigers have so-so rotation
Verlander - Bonderman ... ok
but others are so-so
Robertson is a mediocre starter, Kenny Rogers is old... they traded Jurrjens, maybe Tata, Durbin, Miller ?

Don't leave out possibly one of the best names in MLB today Yorman Bazardo.

[NYMets523]

Top 5 in the league - NL or MLB?
League

Could a "dead arm period" be a euphemism for not being strong enough to pitch 200+ innings at near-optimal level?
Not likely. He had a dead arm because he had never pitched that many innings in one season in his professional career.

That's not a horrible thing, btw. He's still young (inexperienced) enough, and guys are usually able to build up their workloads as they mature. Also, his stellar beginning of last season was accompanied by a flukish and unsustainable BABIP - that is to say that even if he pitched that way again, it is unlikely to generate the same results. Maine is good - I like him, and i'm glad he's a part of the Mets, but he's not a sure bet. Call it a "dead arm period" or whatever you will, he stunk for most of the last two months of the season.
He's going to get better as he refines his secondary pitches.

Perez is the guy I actually have more confidence in. His problems seemed to be mental. Success begets success with Perez. His stuff is great, and as long as he keeps in it the vicinity of the plate, he'll be good. It seems like Peterson (or whoever) has made good strides there, which result in success. As long as he pitches well, he will likely continue to do so - his problem is the "blow up" and the more often it happens, the most often it will continue to happen in the future. He did though have that awesome season in '04, and then regress, so he's not out of the woods yet.
He went from 3-13 with a 6.50+ ERA to 15-10 with a 3.56 ERA. Yeah, his blow up games really increased from 2006 to 2007. He is getting better mechanically and mentally which were his biggest problems in 2006.

Duque's good when he's healthy, and Britney Spears is a good mother when sober. The guy pitched 200 innings once in his career, and that was like nine years ago!
Spears isn't a good mother sober.

El Duque still pitched a lot (he probably went deep into the game more than any other starter). The Mets won 10 over 11 of his starts at one point. The offense never bailed him out of any.

Here's the biggest problem - the Mets don't have a single pitcher they can bank on for 200 IP. The bullpen will be so crucial to this team's success.

The Mets have as many questions in their rotation as anybody. Their potential may be greater than most, a lot of things have to work out for that potential to be actualized.
Which is why if they can get that 200-inning ace, they will have a very good rotation.

[digglahhh]

Duque made less than 25 starts and threw less than 150 innings, perhaps we have different definitions of "a lot."

Right, Maine never pitched anything close to 200 innings in a season up until last year. That's my point too. I would expect that he makes strides and has more juice this year. If he stays healthy he'll throw about 200 innings again, will he run out of gas before the end again? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he'll get closer to the finish line than last year, but not all the way there. We don't know. The troubling thing is that even during his period of dominance, his peripherals didn't match the performance. He's a quality starter, a worthy addition to any rotation. Can we get another borderline All Star performance out of his, sure. Am I going to bank on it, no.

Perez's biggest problems were always mechanical and mental. That's why I said success begets success with him. That's why I think he's a good bet to be very good again.

What if they don't add a big starter, what are they then?

Like I said, they can be very good. They could also be terrible!

[Neilios]

In hopes that some return to 2006 form while others steadily improve, Verlander-Bonderman-Rogers-Robertson-Bazardo is pretty darn solid.

Key words: "in hopes"

[Zagi-CRO]

Don't leave out possibly one of the best names in MLB today Yorman Bazardo.

Ok, you have right. Bazardo had 1-0 1.54 but only few innings in MLB.
In the minors 10-6 with an ERA 3.75.
About Robertson... I'd trade him and take Livan Hernandez, for instance.

[Solrac]

The best 2008 rotation could be:
Boston --> Beckett - Matsuzaka - Lester - Buchholz - Papelbon :bowdown:
and
CHC --> Zambrano - Lilly - Hill - Marshall - Dempster

Hopefully Prior Would Be Healthy For 2008

SP-->Prior-Zambrano-Lilly-Marquis/Hill/Marshall

[NickU]

I don't understand how everyone is over looking the Twins. Assuming Santana stays put, they can put anyone in the 3-5 spots and contend for the league ERA title. Has everyone already forgotten how good Francisco Liriano was? He was the best pitcher in the league when he was healthy. He out pitched Satana inning for inning, game for game, month for month, in a Cy Young year, when he won the tripe crown. Come on guys, I mean it's fine to say the Indians have a better 1-2 punch, although I disagree, but to just over look them as an after thought is a disservice to everyone involved in this conversation.

[NickU]

Frigg it, I'm just going to say it right now. Liriano comes back next year and finishes in the top three in Cy Young voting. He would have won it in 2006 if he wouldn't have fallen victim to injuries. Go look at his line on July 28, right before he went down and tell me that he wasn't the best pitcher in baseball. He finished up with a 2.16 ERA, 12-3 record, 144 K, 32 BB, 1.00 WHIP, all in 122 IP. That is insane. Maybe he hits the rookie wall, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he doesn't come back the same, but my money says he does.

[Zagi-CRO]

Ok, you have right. Bazardo had 1-0 1.54 but only few innings in MLB.
In the minors 10-6 with an ERA 3.75.
About Robertson... I'd trade him and take Livan Hernandez, for instance.

few days later I wrote about the Tigers rotation...
and suggested to pick up Livan Hernandez...
Does Jim Leyland read this Forum, you can judge according to this article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Active-Tigers-considering-Livan-Hernandez;_ylt=Ak8PQkwxpFDCjBYAC1PWsCAZ0bYF?urn=ml b,54116

Rumor is Detroit is checking out the status of free agents Livan Hernandez and Carlos Silva. It appears Hernandez is more of an option for the Tigers with Silva looking to get $40 million over four years.
:cap: :cap:

[Zagi-CRO]

With Livan Hernandez it would be a nice rotation:
1.Verlander
2.Bonderman
3.L.Hernandez
4.A.Miller
5.Robertson
on the bench... Durbin, Bazardo, Tata, Vasquez
Why they traded Jurrjens??

The Tigers bolstered their lineup with Renteria, Jac.Jones.

[Zagi-CRO]

Atlanta's rotation:

1. Smoltz 40y
2. Glavine 41y
3. Hudson 32y
4. Ch.James 26y
5. Jurrjens 21y
6. Jo-jo Reyes 23y
7. Carlyle 30y

A pretty good rotation!

[NickU]

Wait... Atl signed Glavine? When did this happen?

[NickU]

well i guess so... hmm. I must have been sleeping when it went down...

ATLANTA -- Having been disappointed twice previously, Tom Glavine didn't allow himself to make the same assumption so many others throughout the baseball world had already made over the course of the past two months.
While many others have been penciling him into the Braves 2008 starting rotation since the conclusion of the 2007 season, Glavine didn't take any comfort until the deal was announced late Sunday night. In fact, at approximately 8 p.m. ET on Sunday, he called his agent, Gregg Clifton, and cautiously wondered why nothing had been announced.

"There's always something in the back of your mind that something could happen," said Glavine, whose one-year, $8 million deal was officially announced at Turner Field on Monday afternoon. "You never know. So until it was official, I wasn't taking anything for granted."

Though Glavine wasn't taking anything for granted, his soon-to-be teammates had already been making plans that involved him for the upcoming season. At manager Bobby Cox's charity event at Turner Field on Saturday night, All-Star catcher Brian McCann playfully asked Glavine if he should plan to set up "eight or 10 inches" off the plate when he's pitching.

As for Jeff Francoeur, last week he told his wife, Catie, about how great it's going to be to have a regular golfing foursome that includes two Hall of Famers (Glavine and John Smoltz).

"I'm thrilled just to get him and what he brings to the table," Francoeur said in reference to Glavine, who has won at least 13 games and completed at least 198 innings each of the past three seasons.

Francoeur and McCann were just three years old when Glavine began his first tour of duty in Atlanta during the 1987 season. Growing up in suburban Atlanta, they considered him and Smoltz to be two of their favorite Braves. Now they can call both of them teammates.

Smoltz and Glavine developed a friendship when they became a part of the Atlanta rotation in 1988. With Greg Maddux throughout the 1990s, they formed one of the greatest starting trios the game has ever seen.

Now fortysomethings, Glavine and Smoltz have the opportunity to be together again. While talking and playing golf together regularly over the past two weeks, they've eagerly anticipated the completion of this deal and held out hope that they wouldn't be crushed the way they were last year, when the Braves didn't even make an offer to Glavine.

"I'm extremely happy for the Atlanta Braves, for myself and our chances as an organization," Smoltz said. "But this goes beyond our friendship. I think it's the right thing to do in many ways, mainly because it makes our team better."


After unsuccessful negotiations with the Braves at the conclusion of the 2002 season, Glavine opted to sign with the Mets. During the subsequent five seasons, his presence -- both as a clubhouse leader and a dependable pitcher -- has been missed in Atlanta.

"When people come and people go, there are holes created that need to be filled," Smoltz said. "When he left, there was a hole that was hard to fill."

Glavine's absence as a dependable and durable pitcher was certainly realized during the past two years, when the lack of depth in the starting rotation destroyed the Braves. Now paired with Smoltz and Hudson, the 300-game winner strengthens a rotation that will be even stronger if Mike Hampton is able to make a successful return.

"We're thrilled to have Tommy back," said Cox, who as the Braves general manager in 1987 gave Glavine his first call to the Majors.

Over the course of the past 20 years, Cox and Glavine have developed a friendship that is formed around the strong mutual respect they have for each other.

Cox never liked it when Glavine returned with the Mets and was soundly booed by fans at Turner Field. Though he knew this was the reception one might get when he leaves to join a division rival, he never understood why it reached the levels that it did, and always wondered if it had something to do with the fact that Glavine was the players' union representative heading into the 1994 work stoppage.

"You have to understand, [union leader] Don Fehr wanted the strongest possible player out there, and a smart one to represent the union at that time," Cox said. "Out of 850 players, Tommy was selected. A guy like that can be on my side at any time."

Glavine looks forward to the opportunity to be reunited with Cox. Over the past five seasons, he's fielded countless questions from his Mets teammates, who wanted to know what it's like to play for the highly respected skipper.

"I've got a ton of respect for Bobby," Glavine said. "I always have. He has been the single greatest influence in my career."

As he was driving to Turner Field on Monday, Cox received a call from Andruw Jones, who is currently vacationing in Hawaii. Jones immediately wanted to know if Glavine had been signed yet. The veteran manager said that the signing was in the process and reminded his former Gold Glove center fielder that he wished the team could have also secured his services.

In a perfect world, Cox would never have to say good-bye to any of the players he's grown to love and respect. At least this year, he's saying good-bye to Jones at the same time that he's welcoming Glavine back to where's he's always seemingly belonged.

The only thing that would have truly made this homecoming even more nostalgic was if it could have also included Maddux. But, as Smoltz said, "You can't have a whole staff of old farts."


Mark Bowman is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[NYMets523]

Their rotation got worse.

[Zagi-CRO]

After Garland's trade LAA rotation looks:

1.Lackey 29 y
2.Escobar 31y
3.Jer.Weaver 25y
4.Garland 28y
5.Saunders 26y
... E.Santana
Isn't so bad? Good pitching-good game.

[Zagi-CRO]

the Yankees' starting rotation would be as follows:
Chien-Ming Wang
Mike Mussina
Phil Hughes
Joba Chamberlain
Ian Kennedy

/Pettitte was 15-9 with a 4.05 ERA in 36 games for the Yankees last season./

Seems the yank needs more starters for the battle?