View Full Version : Okajima
micsmith
11-13-2007, 10:42 AM
I've heard some people say that Alex Rodriguez had one of the best seasons ever by a third basemen in 2007. Maybe, maybe not. What I want to know is do you think Hideki Okajima had one of the best seasons ever by a set-up man in 2007? Was he even the best set-up man in baseball in 2007? Where would his season rank among set-up men in history?
sturg1dj
11-13-2007, 11:00 AM
he actuall wasn't that great near the end of the season so his stats aren't as dominating as they were. His WHIP would be amazing if he were a starter, but when ranking all-time best set-up men I don't think its up there
two that come to mind
Julian Tavarez - the year that Cleveland made the world series
Mariano Rivera - when Wetteland was the closer
K-Rod - when Percival was the closer
and their stats may or may not be better than Okajimas, but those are two I remember that were amazing
KCGHOST
11-13-2007, 11:00 AM
There is no debating Arod had one of the best seasons ever for a 3B.
Okajima had a fine season, but let's not get too carried away. He only hurled 69 innings so "setup" guys from just 10-20 years ago have an advantage in IP's. My guess he had one of the top 30 set-up seasons (that's pretty dog gone good). But maybe it is as high top 15.
Milt on Tilt
11-13-2007, 01:37 PM
I'm gonna go out and say he wasn't even the best set-up man in the AL. Rafeal Betanroids from Cleveland. And actually it isn't even close. Get over your East Coast bias people.
Mattingly
11-13-2007, 02:47 PM
I'm gonna go out and say he wasn't even the best set-up man in the AL. Rafeal Betanroids from Cleveland. And actually it isn't even close. Get over your East Coast bias people.
Did you mean Betancourt? Or are you imply that he'd taken PEDs?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3985
Better regular season stats, but in the ALCS, he had a 6.75 ERA over 8 innings
Okajima's ERA didn't balloon until the WS (7.36).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/okajihi01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/betanra01.shtml
Milt on Tilt
11-13-2007, 03:34 PM
I'm not really implying. Just bringing up the fact that he did use MLB banned PEDs.
nerfan
11-13-2007, 03:53 PM
I'm gonna go out and say he wasn't even the best set-up man in the AL. Rafeal Betanroids from Cleveland. And actually it isn't even close. Get over your East Coast bias people.
Excellent.
Okajima faded down the stretch. Betancourt posted a 312 ERA+ as compared to Okajima's 214. Betancourt pitched 79 2/3 innings to 69 for Hideki. The other of the two Rafael's on the Indians, Rafael Perez, posted a 259 ERA+. Betancourt allowed 3 out of 33 runners to score. Okajima? 4 out of 29.
mojorisin71
11-13-2007, 05:18 PM
Better regular season stats, but in the ALCS, he had a 6.75 ERA over 8 innings
Kinda skewed, since he allowed 6 ER in 1 2/3 IP in Game 7.
RuthMayBond
11-13-2007, 05:31 PM
What I want to know is do you think Hideki Okajima had one of the best seasons ever by a set-up man in 2007? Where would his season rank among set-up men in history?He probably wasn't even the FIFTH best set-up man just in 2007
Marmol
Moylan
Gardner
Bell
Corpas
Milt on Tilt
11-13-2007, 05:46 PM
And what about Rafael Soriano?
And Betancourt's teammate Rafael Perez?
And Justin Speier?
So, in short he WASN'T the best set-up man, and there were many that were in the same category as him this year alone.
plask_stirlac
11-13-2007, 09:05 PM
I've heard some people say that Alex Rodriguez had one of the best seasons ever by a third basemen in 2007. Maybe, maybe not. What I want to know is do you think Hideki Okajima had one of the best seasons ever by a set-up man in 2007? Was he even the best set-up man in baseball in 2007? Where would his season rank among set-up men in history?
It's not that great historically after his lesser second half. Just the recent Twins can match it: Romero in 2002, Hawkins in 2002 and 2003, Rincon in 2004 almost...
The best was probably Gabe White in 2000. He only had 5 saves but a 245 ERA+ over 84 IP for Colorado. His DERA for season is 1.69, NRA for season 1.55. We could even disavow his time in Cincy. He had 37 games in Coors to survive.
I'm not counting Dick Radatz though he could enter in the 6th or 7th two days in a row, but still was a closer.
Westlake
11-13-2007, 09:08 PM
I'm gonna go out and say he wasn't even the best set-up man in the AL. Rafeal Betanroids from Cleveland. And actually it isn't even close. Get over your East Coast bias people.
East Coast bias this, bias that, it has gotten old. If there's such a huge bias, why didn't Jeter win the MVP last year? Why didn't Beckett win the Cy Young this year? Yawn...
Milt on Tilt
11-13-2007, 09:18 PM
well, anyone that nominated Okijima for best set-up man clearly didn't look outside of New York and Boston.
The only East Coast Bias I know of is in media coverage, not how they rate players. Okajima, even with his meltdown in the last month, put up a great season. This was his first year in a longer American baseball season - next year he should be even better. Did he have the best setup season of all time? That's not even something we should be considering.
Might he have such a season in the future? I don't think it's impossible. He's good enough to put up some really tremendous seasons.
Westlake
11-13-2007, 09:32 PM
He probably wasn't even the FIFTH best set-up man just in 2007
Marmol
Moylan
Gardner
Bell
Corpas
Okajima's WHIP was better than Marmol's, Moylan's, Gardner's, and Corpas'.
Corpas was a closer half the year, not set-up man.
Oki's K/BB ratio was better than Moylan's, Gardner's, Marmol's, Bell's, AND Corpas'. That's all 5.
Oki's DERA was 2.28, better than Moylan's and Corpas', and pretty equal to Bell's, if you really like using ERA to determine which reliever is better, since it seems that is all you used.
And what about Rafael Soriano?
And Betancourt's teammate Rafael Perez?
And Justin Speier?
So, in short he WASN'T the best set-up man, and there were many that were in the same category as him this year alone.
Soriano has a great K/BB and WHIP, but his DERA is over 3. I can imagine him being better than Oki though, but I didn't really see him pitch this year.
Betancourt was probably the best SU guy in baseball this past year. Perez too, although when I watched him pitch I wasnt as impressed as I was with Oki and Betancourt. Justin Speier just pitched 50 innings, I dont think he really compares to everyone else.
RuthMayBond
11-14-2007, 09:22 AM
Oki's DERA was 2.28, better than Moylan's and Corpas', and pretty equal to Bell's, if you really like using ERA to determine which reliever is better, since it seems that is all you used.
I also like that small thing called innings. I don't care so much about other rates that may or may not mean anything. Wish I could find DERAs on everyone
Westlake
11-14-2007, 09:42 AM
I also like that small thing called innings. I don't care so much about other rates that may or may not mean anything. Wish I could find DERAs on everyone
Why can't you? I found them on BP pretty easily.
Also, how can WHIP and K/BB not mean anything?
RuthMayBond
11-14-2007, 09:45 AM
Why can't you? I found them on BP pretty easily. :bowdown: for the tip
<Also, how can WHIP and K/BB not mean anything?>
The same way innings can ;) (I said MAY or may not)
Mattingly
11-14-2007, 02:09 PM
Kinda skewed, since he allowed 6 ER in 1 2/3 IP in Game 7.
See what happens when you use stats and forget totally about logic? :o :(
Anyway, I've seen Boston fans here say that for the ALCS, Oki deserved 1/2 of those saves that Papelbon got, since w/o Oki's going a few scoreless innings over several games, the Sawx may not have even gotten to the WS.
Anyway, a good case could be made for both players, I think.
Now then, when can the Yanks have 'em both? :D ;) :p
plask_stirlac
11-14-2007, 10:42 PM
well, anyone that nominated Okijima for best set-up man clearly didn't look outside of New York and Boston.
A 0.83 ERA in the first half will get you noticed. Of course that is visible then, so when he had a 4.56 ERA after that it just raised the 0.83 to a still great 2.22.