Thowing "No No's"

[Arnie#6]

hey guys. Ive seen alot of good pitchers/position players end up on the DL with tommy john surgery needed, rotator cuff problems and countless other things.

I would like to get an "expert" view on what are the top mechanical problems yousee in a young player/adult that can really screw up a players arm.
Can i just set a age frame from Freshman in HS to an average MLB player.
(14-38 or so)

[TG Coach]

The two most common throwing problems I saw in preteen ball were:

1) Opening up too much placing too much pressure on the arm bringing the pitch through instead of the pitch flowing through the body, and 2) slinging the ball/dragging the elbow.

[Go Cardinals]

The two most common throwing problems I saw in preteen ball were:

1) Opening up too much placing too much pressure on the arm bringing the pitch through instead of the pitch flowing through the body, and 2) slinging the ball/dragging the elbow.

can you show video of both of thoose (or can anyone).....

[TG Coach]

1) It's the pitcher who overstrides leaving his body too open to the plate rather than striding towards the target (the plate).

2) It's also called throwing like a girl.** The thrower drags the arm forward and pushes the ball.

** with all due respect to softball players who throw like athletes

[tom.guerry]

there really are no experts, only opinions.

even guys like Andrews will admit this.

My favorite info/advice comes from a rehab biomechanics guy who used to work with the inventor of Tommy John surgery, Dr Job at Centinella hospital in L.A.

His name was Hodge and he put out a tape called BIOMECHANICBASEBALL.

look hard for that one.

[Chris O'Leary]

1) Opening up too much placing too much pressure on the arm bringing the pitch through instead of the pitch flowing through the body, and

I would agree with opening up too EARLY, but too MUCH is too imprecise IMO. How much is too much?

A ML pitcher throws the ball with his entire body, and not just his arm. This is achieved by rotating the hips well ahead of the shoulders like this...



This enables the hips to powerfully pull the shoulders around.

Too many young pitchers do the opposite. Their shoulders rotate ahead of their hips.



2) slinging the ball/dragging the elbow.

What do you mean by dragging the elbow? Do you mean like this...???

[Chris O'Leary]

hey guys. Ive seen alot of good pitchers/position players end up on the DL with tommy john surgery needed, rotator cuff problems and countless other things.

I would like to get an "expert" view on what are the top mechanical problems yousee in a young player/adult that can really screw up a players arm.
Can i just set a age frame from Freshman in HS to an average MLB player.
(14-38 or so)

Here's what I think is some particularly common, and bad, advice...

- Show the ball to Center Field/Second Base at the high-cocked position.
- Get the elbow above the level of the shoulder at the high-cocked position.
- Break the hands with the elbows.
- Make the Inverted W.
- Make the Inverted L.

The Inverted W looks like this...



The Inverted L looks like this...



I don't think a pitcher's elbows should EVER get above the level of their shoulders.

[Arnie#6]

then does anyone have an example of "perfect" throwing?

and also, what is elbow dragging? in the picture of greg maddux above, it is right before his elbow extends, and the ball is delivered to the plate. whats wrong with it?

and pls dont pertain just to pitchers, also catchers(i am one) and other positions

[TG Coach]

I would agree with opening up too EARLY, but too MUCH is too imprecise IMO. How much is too much?

A ML pitcher throws the ball with his entire body, and not just his arm. This is achieved by rotating the hips well ahead of the shoulders like this...



This enables the hips to powerfully pull the shoulders around.

Too many young pitchers do the opposite. Their shoulders rotate ahead of their hips.




What do you mean by dragging the elbow? Do you mean like this...???




Chris, you're comparing major leaguers with kids. A major league pitcher does not throw like a girl.

[TL_Dad]

1) It's the pitcher who overstrides leaving his body too open to the plate rather than striding towards the target (the plate).

2) It's also called throwing like a girl.** The thrower drags the arm forward and pushes the ball.

** with all due respect to softball players who throw like athletes

Nice save coach. My daughter gets after me for saying throws like a girl.

[TG Coach]

Nice save coach. My daughter gets after me for saying throws like a girl.

My daughter plays college softball. She throws like an athlete.

[Chris O'Leary]

then does anyone have an example of "perfect" throwing?

I have breakdowns of the mechanics of...

- Greg Maddux (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/RethinkingPitching/Essays/ProperPitchingMechanics_GregMaddux.html)
- Roger Clemens (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/RethinkingPitching/Essays/ProperPitchingMechanics_RogerClemens.html)

...on my web site.


and also, what is elbow dragging? in the picture of greg maddux above, it is right before his elbow extends, and the ball is delivered to the plate. whats wrong with it?

Nothing.

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris, you're comparing major leaguers with kids. A major league pitcher does not throw like a girl.

So what then are you referring to?

In my experience, "throwing like a girl" occurs when players start out facing the target like this...



...rather than sideways to the target. This causes them to throw with just their arms and not their entire bodies.

Good players, regardless of gender, start out sideways to the target like this pretty much perfect photo of Danica Patrick...



...who is obviously an all-around athlete. This enables the hips to pull the shoulders around.

This applies to both pitches by pitchers and throws by position players.