Cleveland Municipal Stadium Photos

[sflnyc]

No threads exist on the big stadium by the lake, so here goes.

First photo is from May 1941. Sign on the bleacher wall states that in the upcoming homestand the first night game of the season is against the STL Browns.

Second photo is an undated photo from the upper deck which I guess is from the 1940's (taken from 1981 All Star Game program).

Third and fourth photos are from the May 23, 1948 DH against the Yankees. Overflow crowd of 78,431 spills into the open area between the fence and the bleachers. The 470-foot original centerfield sign is still evident.

As part of the post-war explosion and optimism in the country, American's flocked to baseball parks (and horse tracks for that matter) in record numbers. Then after that 5 to 6 year burst, attendance dropped across the board and didn't reach those levels again until the 1970's. The Indians drew a major league record 2,620,627 in 1948, a mark that lasted until the opening of Dodger Stadium in 1962. It remained an AL Record until the Yankees broke it in 1980.

[sflnyc]

More photos of the giant stadium.

First photo is from 1957. The standing room area in centerfield had given way to a scenic garden.

Second photo is Chief Wahoo on the stadium wall urging fans to buy their 1959 season tickets early.

Pictures 3-5 are taken from the 1981 All-Star Game program.

Third photo is from a Bat Day promotion game (undated).

Fourth and fifth photos are shots from the upper deck, probably taken in the late 1970's or early 1980's.

[sflnyc]

More pictures

First one is of the cover of the 1981 All Star Game Program

Second one is a color photo from that same program. This photo is comparable to photo #3 in the previous post. It was part of an NBC Ad in the program (I cropped out the rest). I'm guessing because of the bunting, that the photo might be from the 1981 Opener against Milwaukee with 71,067 on hand. Question though, is if it was the Home Opener, why was the field in such bad shape with the football field still evident?

The third photo I cut out from a 1991 issue of Sports Illustrated because it had a picture of the stadium. Turns out the guy is John Adams, the man with the drum. I had no idea that was him until a post in a thread a couple of weeks back about TBS Broadcasting the Divisional Playoffs. Man, those wooden bleacher benches were in some bad shape!

[nymdan]

I wonder if the guy with the drum is the same guy they interviewed at Jacobs Field during the Yankee series

[bnbusser]

I wonder if the guy with the drum is the same guy they interviewed at Jacobs Field during the Yankee series

It is the same guy.... I met him at Cleveland stadium years ago.... he works for the phone company in northern Ohio....

[sflnyc]

I wonder if the guy with the drum is the same guy they interviewed at Jacobs Field during the Yankee series

Yes, that is him.

Here is my comment (Post #34) from the TBS Broadcasting thread
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=68653&page=2

Here is a picture of him 16 years later (2006) from the Indians website

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Thanks!

Yeah, that's John Adams with the drums, and he is still beating the war drums when a rally is needed.

Spent many a fine weekend day there with my dad in the early '60s through late '70s before we moved.

For much of the time we went there the upper deck was closed off after Opening Day, and they were lucky to draw a crowd of 5000 diehards most weekdays. You could drive up an hour and a half before game time, park for free a few blocks away in an alley, buy a good seat near third base and watch BP and a game for very little cash. Your car was nearly always there when you got back.

[philipthegreat]

More pictures

First one is of the cover of the 1981 All Star Game Program

Second one is a color photo from that same program. This photo is comparable to photo #3 in the previous post. It was part of an NBC Ad in the program (I cropped out the rest). I'm guessing because of the bunting, that the photo might be from the 1981 Opener against Milwaukee with 71,067 on hand. Question though, is if it was the Home Opener, why was the field in such bad shape with the football field still evident?

The third photo I cut out from a 1991 issue of Sports Illustrated because it had a picture of the stadium. Turns out the guy is John Adams, the man with the drum. I had no idea that was him until a post in a thread a couple of weeks back about TBS Broadcasting the Divisional Playoffs. Man, those wooden bleacher benches were in some bad shape!

Nice photos!

My dad always talked about how ugly Municipal stadium was, how bad the grass was, and, how the sewage leeked into the dugout during games.

From the looks of it he was porbably exxagerating.

[RuthMayBond]

More pictures

First one is of the cover of the 1981 All Star Game Program

I hope I can still find mine

[sflnyc]

Question to Cleveland area posters.

What year was the Loge Level section added?

The most I know is that it was spearheaded by former Browns owner Art Modell.


Nice photos!

My dad always talked about how ugly Municipal stadium was, how bad the grass was, and, how the sewage leeked into the dugout during games.

From the looks of it he was porbably exxagerating.

Leaking sewage? Sounds familiar to "the dump" of the Orange Bowl that my alma mater (U Miami) is finally leaving, 20 years after they should have left to a first class facility.

[EdTarbusz]

The loge area was added about 1974. I believe that Modell's Stadium Corp. took over stadium operations in 1973.

[EdTarbusz]

I went to a lot of games at this park, and don't remember the upper deck ever being closed off.

[sflnyc]

I went to a lot of games at this park, and don't remember the upper deck ever being closed off.

Even with only the typical 5-10,000 crowds back in the day? I left my 1983 Dope Book at the office but I'm sure both the lower and upper decks had around 30,000 seats each. That's interesting.

Down here in South Florida, the Marlins close off the Upper Deck for the midweek "10,000" crowds with a 23,834 "fake capacity". They only open the Upper Deck on weekends for the total 36,331 "fake capacity". You can tell that I don't give any creedence to the "fake capacities" listed by the Marlins, Oakland, Minnesota, etc. I know that when I attend a Marlins game that looks sold out in print in the boxscore to someone living elsewhere in the country that there were 30,000 empty seats with me. But I digress...

[RuthMayBond]

Even with only the typical 5-10,000 crowds back in the day? I don't remember it closed off either, and sometimes crowds weren't even 5,000

[Calif_Eagle]

I also dont recall the upper deck being closed, or many restrictions on seating at all; until very late in my Cleveland years. I was born there in 1958 & lived there until 1985... in the mid 80's they DID put restrictions on where you could sit, and did close off via fence gates whole sections of the Stadium. But for most of my run as an Indian fan you could pay for a cheap seat and move almost anywhere, except to the field boxes. Also, the bleacher area was generally sealed off from the oval, although now and again an usher or gatekeeeper would allow some fans to pass from the oval to the bleachers or vice versa.

The bleachers were long wooden strips without dividers or seat backs & probably dated back to the 1931-32 opening of the park. They were very dried out but had one feature that probably no longer exists in any current MLB park. You could lie down on them, stretch out, & thanks to the sparse crowds of the 1970's, work on your tan while listening to Herb Score's play by play on the radio. Those were the days : )

The field was always in terrible shape in my memory. Three reasons for this. 1.) The Browns and Indians each had their own groundskeepers/ GK crews and grounds keeping needs / requirements in the pre Art Modell - Stadium Corp. days before Modell took over management and operation of the Stadium. I think at that time he brokered an agreement on GK issues with the Tribe's management team. 2nd reason was the appallingly ill-advised decision to LOWER the field level before one of the seasons of the mid 70's. The Stadium was only yards away from Lake Erie and was built on landfill, not on solid ground. When the field was lowered (to add field boxes if I recall correctly), that put the surface perilously close to such delights as 1000's of old tires, ancient metal junk etc... some of which actually worked its way above the surface of the field that year. At least once during the season (I want to say 1973 or 1974) the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported an outfielder tripped on something that when inspected was land fill trash from the 1930s. A 3rd reason was conflicting usages year round and the bad weather of Cleveland, when combined with the poor field quality & location; topped off by competing GK crews... well, lets just say I seldom recall the field for baseball ever looking really good. Even with that said, I miss the old horseshoe a lot, & would love to be able to see another game there. Thanks to all that posted pics!

[placount]

Thanks!

Yeah, that's John Adams with the drums, and he is still beating the war drums when a rally is needed.

Spent many a fine weekend day there with my dad in the early '60s through late '70s before we moved.

For much of the time we went there the upper deck was closed off after Opening Day, and they were lucky to draw a crowd of 5000 diehards most weekdays. You could drive up an hour and a half before game time, park for free a few blocks away in an alley, buy a good seat near third base and watch BP and a game for very little cash. Your car was nearly always there when you got back.

this made me laugh

[EdTarbusz]

in the mid 80's they DID put restrictions on where you could sit, and did close off via fence gates whole sections of the Stadium. s!

I don't remember this. I remember that not every gate to get into the park would be open for night games, but I don't remember them using fance gates inside the park. It wouldn't have worked, if I recall correctly, because each section of stands could be accessed from the section next to it (except for the bleachers as you explained above.) If you were sitting in section 1, there would have been nothing to stop from walking through the seats to section 36, either in the upper or lower decks.

[Gary Dunaier]

Couldn't they have just roped off the sections?

[Calif_Eagle]

I don't remember this. I remember that not every gate to get into the park would be open for night games, but I don't remember them using fance gates inside the park. It wouldn't have worked, if I recall correctly, because each section of stands could be accessed from the section next to it (except for the bleachers as you explained above.) If you were sitting in section 1, there would have been nothing to stop from walking through the seats to section 36, either in the upper or lower decks.

To the best of my recollection they had a few fencing gates at point at the distant reaches of the ballpark & some distant ("distant" meaning relative to home plate in both instances) ramps to the upper deck on the inner concourse. Mr. Tarbusz is correct in that, you COULD easily walk from section to section within the seating areas, & that for many many years this was freely permitted. In the season(s) I recall, they stopped this in the actual seating decks by having ushers strategically posted at the points which they wanted no one to pass. anyone familiar with the very simple design / layout of the Stadium will know this was easily accomplished with very few people needed to do it. I remember being very disappointed by this new practice as I always liked the freedom to move about, whenever I wasnt in the bleachers (which was most of the time, admittedly). In terms of cleaning the park & saving money on employees needed in areas with minimal amounts of patrons, it did/does make economic sense to restrict the seating to a smaller area. Even counting opening days I attended I was NEVER at a game that didnt feature at least 10,000 empty seats & usually it was more like 75,000 empty seats. :dismay: For all I know they could have stopped doing so after a season or 2. After 1984 I was only at the CMS one more time before it was torn down, that was for a Browns per-season football game coupled with a Beach Boys concert on a visit home.

[alpineinc]

Link no longer works.

[Chevy114]

So they based the guys from major league 1 on that guy?

How were the views, were they bad since the stadium was round?

[lollar]

Everything about the sewage leaking is true. The clubhouse had water pipe's bursting and I have heard the playing field wasn't well liked by the players.

You could be far away from the field in that place. The players looked like ants if you were in the upper deck. Yet I still have fond memories of the place :)

[chip]

Chevy114,

Good question! Here is my story. From the mid 80’s until the final game at the
Final game I sat with John Adams. For most of the games there was a core of four
people that would be at every game-John and his wife Kathleen myself and another
guy named George. One night during a game the creators of the movie came out
and sat with us and interview John. I remember they sat with us must of the game
because they where having such a good time and enjoying the stories and the odd
sense of humor all of us had. Let’s just say we all possessed a dry and direct sense
of humor.
So the scene in the movie when the homerun is hit and two of the guys have the
“What do you mean to high” argument that would be George and me (the younger guy).
Also if you notice the lady in the movie is knitting, that is because occasionally
Kathleen would bring her knitting to ballgames. She must have had it there the night
the people from the movie where there. Of course we never painted our faces or
wore headdresses and John is the only one that hits a drum.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

I'll have to dig up some photos of the mistake by the lake. I love stadiums with posts (as long as I don't have to sit behind one). Here's some I found on my D drive







Our local beer league outfield is in better shape than this:disbelief:

[Bernard Shakey]

I was digging through the photo albums for some of these. This first one is a game from August of 1993 (the baby is my now 15 1/2 year old), the last ones are the day (2/28/96) a sympathetic security guard let my 2 (at the time) sons into the stadium for a last walkaround. Please excuse the poor quality, they are photos of our prints taken in the backyard.

[Bernard Shakey]

...and a few more

[ri95171]

Man, I hope you made him replace his divot back there...

[alpineinc]

Those are amazing photos of your kids with the run of the place! Can't see that happening today. Thanks for uploading.

[alpineinc]

More from '96 from lake2112 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68524499@N00/sets/72157594561090561/) on flickr.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Even though it was oversized and outdated, I still liked this old park. In some of the pics above, you can see some resemblance to the old Yankee Stadium (just without the charm). I liked the ballpark architecture of that era.

Here's an 80's shot


Look at the horrid condition of the outfield in this one

[Bernard Shakey]

Those are amazing photos of your kids with the run of the place! Can't see that happening today. Thanks for uploading.

There was a time when we all weren't viewed as suspects, huh. Actually, Cleveland Stadium was pretty easy to get into in the 80s. In high school, we used to go down there and play whiffle ball on the field when the Indians were out of town. The security office was located by the Browns' offices next to Gate B (now known as the Corporate Sponser.com Gate at CBS). The one guy who usually let us in thought is was hilarious that we thought playing whiffle ball on a big league field was so friggin' cool. On the times when he couldn't let us in, he'd be all apologetic and say things like "I can't do it today, guys, but next Thusday at around 6:30, things might be different if you know what I mean...." We got busted once and given a big speech about tresspassing, but ended up on a long conversation about the history of Cleveland Stadium with the guy who busted us and ended up shaking hands and walking out with the guy as opposed to being given the boot. The pictures on that day came with two conditions: stay out of the upper deck and don't even think about walking out of here with any "souveniers." You'll notice a seat back on the ground in one of those photos...it was tempting, but I figured the guy was cool enough to let us in and I would be a d-bag to show him a lack of respect. The damage you see in those photos was from the near riot at the last Browns home game in 1995.

[mrakbaseball]

Even though it was oversized and outdated, I still liked this old park. In some of the pics above, you can see some resemblance to the old Yankee Stadium (just without the charm). I liked the ballpark architecture of that era.

Here's an 80's shot


Look at the horrid condition of the outfield in this one


the first pic is from '93, not the '80's. Blue Jays at Cleveland. Baerga batting, Olerud at first.

[alpineinc]

Demolition photos from bmpowell (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bmpowell/2662052606/) on flickr.

[Pelt]

Cool old postcard:

[alpineinc]

Sporting News, 1937. Two parks for the price of one.

As for Municipal Stadium, $2 million to build it, $1 million more to get the people there!

[alpineinc]

1946 Sporting News, from Gene Mack of the Boston Globe.

[alpineinc]

Program for first ever Indians game at Municipal Stadium, 7/31/32.

[davidthecornman]

im making cleveland municipal stadium on google sketchup heres the photo of it.

[DaBigMotor]

It brings to mind the prerenovated Yankee Stadium.

But it also gives an idea of what old YS would have looked like around the same time, if it hadn't been renovated. What a dump, although from all accounts, old YS was in even worse shape.

[tugger]

Cleveland Stadium was built by the same firm that built YS.

Nobody was sad to see it go.

[The House That Ruth Built]

It brings to mind the prerenovated Yankee Stadium.

But it also gives an idea of what old YS would have looked like around the same time, if it hadn't been renovated. What a dump, although from all accounts, old YS was in even worse shape.

Yeah, your right. Although many hated how the rennovations on YS came out, they were a nessecety. Just compare Cleveland Stadium ca. 1993 to Yankee Stadium ca. 2008.

[alpineinc]

Construction, 1931.

[mn8791]

Did any of you attend football games at the Stadium? It seems like there wouldn't have been a good seat in the house for football. The seats on the 50 yard line are so far from the field! The only seats close to the field would have been in the corners and end zones. Or did they bring in some temporary seats along the sidelines?

[lollar]

You are correct mn...

The football field was very far from the stands unless you were in the open end zone (the old dog pound), or the enclosed section (near the backstop of baseball's home plate).

Watching in the lower deck was tough because you weren't as high up and the sightlines were tough. The upper deck was fine but you were so high up the players looked like ants. The games I saw were in the pound or lower deck near the end zones. If you were in the lower deck by an end zone, between the low sight lines and all the players on the field, you couldn't see the other side of the 50 yard line.

I don't recall them ever bringing in any additional seating.

[RoastedPeanut]

Construction, 1931.





Wait a second.. Rt. 2 was a rail road?

[tugger]

Wait a second.. Rt. 2 was a rail road?

Those track are still there.

[EdTarbusz]

Rt 2 runs parallel to the railroad tracks.

[Digitalballparks]

We put up a 21 page full screen gallery of the ballpark on www.digitalballparks.com with photographs from a guy named Robert K. Shoop.

He did an excellent job of capturing this ballpark during a game from every angle along with several other older ballparks like Memorial Stadium.

[Greg B.]

We put up a 21 page full screen gallery of the ballpark on www.digitalballparks.com with photographs from a guy named Robert K. Shoop.

He did an excellent job of capturing this ballpark during a game from every angle along with several other older ballparks like Memorial Stadium.

I can't find the link. Can you give a direct link?

[soup]

I can't find the link. Can you give a direct link?

http://www.digitalballparks.com/American/Cleveland1.html

[DaBigMotor]

Guys, can we get a side by side comparisson and maybe an overlay comparisson of old Cleveland Stadium with Cleveland Browns stadium, since it was built on the same spot?

[RoastedPeanut]

Rt 2 runs parallel to the railroad tracks.

Ya know.. It's been a long time since I've just gone to E. 9th heading from the east.. A very long time.. I've found myself in the last few years taking dead man's curve, so i can't really recall from memory what lies ahead.. I love watching the tailgating on channel 19 coming from no man's land at the muni lot..

[tugger]

I put together a whole time-lapse photo thing of the demolition and construction of the new stadium for the Plain Dealer's special section in '99. It was pretty cool and I have it stashed away somewhere. The new stadium is on exactly the same spot as the old one, I can tell you that.

[DaBigMotor]

I put together a whole time-lapse photo thing of the demolition and construction of the new stadium for the Plain Dealer's special section in '99. It was pretty cool and I have it stashed away somewhere. The new stadium is on exactly the same spot as the old one, I can tell you that.

Can you post that here?

[tugger]

Can you post that here?

First I'd have to find it. It's buried under 9 years of other crap.

[alpineinc]

From OldTime Baseball (http://picasaweb.google.com/rriescher/OldTimeBaseball#) on Picasa.

[RuthMayBond]

From OldTime Baseball (http://picasaweb.google.com/rriescher/OldTimeBaseball#) on Picasa.


Is that Sam McDowell?

[alpineinc]

Is that Sam McDowell?

Looks like outfielder Jimmie Hall, only on the Tribe for a short time, late '68 - early '69.

[chip]

I miss being that close to the action from the upper deck.

Also it’s nice to see it without the lodges that Art Model added
that ruined the view from the back of the lower deck.

[thechefs2003]

Guys, can we get a side by side comparisson and maybe an overlay comparisson of old Cleveland Stadium with Cleveland Browns stadium, since it was built on the same spot?

Historicaerials.com is a wonderful site for doing just that. You can actually compare two years/photos side by side and slide back and forth between the two. It's very cool to play with. Sorry, I don't know how to make these pictures any bigger, but follow the links....


http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=4476


http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=4480

[Eyeshade]

Just a shout out to everyone on this thread for bringing back lots of great memories about this place. I spent a lot of time there personally and professionally and I miss it to this day. Progressive Field is beautiful and the teams are pretty good, but Municipal Stadium had a few unique features- 1) the lovely aroma of cigar smoke and beer, 2) the ability to move to good seats anytime, anywhere and 3)free beer in the press box for the media.

Does anyone have any photos of the old Indians Hall of Fame that was in or around section 3 during the 60's? It was a pretty cool "unknown" part of the place.

[chip]

Eyeshade,
You said you “spent a lot of time there personally and professionally”.
Did you work there?
I was an Usher for the last few years the Tribe played there.

[RuthMayBond]

Eyeshade,
You said you “spent a lot of time there personally and professionally”.
Did you work there?
I was an Usher for the last few years the Tribe played there.You lucky dogs :nod::hyper::bowdown::cool:

[metfan13]

Is that Sam McDowell?

McDowell threw lefthanded

[chip]

I just noticed the pics are flipped.
They should be like this............

[chip]

Here are two overlay drawings I did of Browns Stadium over Municipal Stadium.
The first is what they would look like if they shared the same field location.


The second shows that Browns stadium is built about one hundred feet west of Municipal Stadium.


By the way the entire upper deck is higher and farther away from the field than Municipal Stadium.
Also the height of the last row was 98’-0”. The height of Browns Stadium is 170’-0”.

[thechefs2003]

By the way the entire upper deck is higher and farther away from the field than Municipal Stadium.
Also the height of the last row was 98’-0”. The height of Browns Stadium is 170’-0”.

Wow :dismay:

[alpineinc]

I just noticed the pics are flipped.


Ha! Now flipped on original post.

[Eyeshade]

Chip,
I work(ed) in TV and spent a lot of time there shooting for news and for the Indians "back in the day".
Folks that are just into the amenities of the modern park don't appreciate the appeal of the old place- your own personal beer vendor, just baseball fans being there- no front runners and a decent upper deck. The upstairs at the Jake/Prog is really, really high and far back compared to Muni.
Also, working at a park for all the home games like you used to and like I do now is a gas, I wouldn't trade it.

[chip]

Found some new old photos......

First game on T.V.


First Night Game






One of the last games of the 1967 season "Big Crowd"

[chip]

And here are some old aerial photos.

[bandit12]

I was lucky enough to see it during the first season of Jacobs field. A carnival was going on inside the stadium. Man what an enormous stadium. I could not get over the steep upper deck. Also, if you sat in the last row of the lower deck, you could only see just above the players heads. Forget seeing a popup, much less a home run.

[Eyeshade]

Chip,
The last two nights at Jake/Prog looked a lot like the late '67 photo. Not a lot of people in the stands. Sad. Tuesday's official "in-park" attendance was in the neighborhood of 5,000. Last nights around 6,500. Announced was double.

[Chevy114]

Maybe this is an obvious question or one that has been answered if so Im sorry, but why was it called the mistake by the lake? And if it was so bad why did they use it for so long?

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

More photos of the giant stadium.

First photo is from 1957. The standing room area in centerfield had given way to a scenic garden.

Second photo is Chief Wahoo on the stadium wall urging fans to buy their 1959 season tickets early.

Pictures 3-5 are taken from the 1981 All-Star Game program.

Third photo is from a Bat Day promotion game (undated).

Fourth and fifth photos are shots from the upper deck, probably taken in the late 1970's or early 1980's.

WOW! Cleveland Muni really withstood the test of time without looking it. Thanks for these contributions. Osborn rocks!! (Sorry Ozzy!)

[RuthMayBond]

Chip,
The last two nights at Jake/Prog looked a lot like the late '67 photo. Not a lot of people in the stands. Sad. Tuesday's official "in-park" attendance was in the neighborhood of 5,000.Well, the Cavs were in the playoffs, and it WAS cold . . . but sometimes those can be fun games

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=89662

[Eyeshade]

Agreed. I had a good time, always do- it's baseball. What I meant by "sad" is that so many folks have jumped off the bandwagon since the end of the Jacobs era. It's still a great ballpark, a solid team and the prices are good. Unfortunately, the REALLY light presales for most of the upcoming games are scary. That makes it look like the 1967 photo might be eerily familiar on a lot of nights. :(

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Construction 1931 (click to enlarge)


1950 night game

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

Construction 1931 (click to enlarge)


1950 night game


You've gotta repost that night image.

And - just an observation regarding Osborn parks built between the Wars: looking at that bare frame panorama, it seems that at least OYS and CMS had very shallow "support space" to them. Support space?????????? and one more: ? ;)

By that I mean facilitative space for reasonably wide concourses, stairs, escalators, elevators, concessions, larger bathrooms, etc. At least 30ft deeper from the entrance to the back of the grandstand, in the case of OYS would've carried that stadium up to a renovation worthy of the park.

What makes NYS 63% bigger than OYS is the presence of exactly that kind of "support" space. Her total seating bowl is actually smaller than that of the last YS, lest it be known.

[RoastedPeanut]

Agreed. I had a good time, always do- it's baseball. What I meant by "sad" is that so many folks have jumped off the bandwagon since the end of the Jacobs era. It's still a great ballpark, a solid team and the prices are good. Unfortunately, the REALLY light presales for most of the upcoming games are scary. That makes it look like the 1967 photo might be eerily familiar on a lot of nights. :(

Some of the issue is the team, some of it is the distance traveled by the fan base, another part might involve how the stadium is designed to accommodate the three tiers of club/box seating, yet another might be the continual draw of crap seats that are tucked down the baselines..

For me, until a day comes that I move to Mentor, Burton, or closer, I don't see the interest in driving to Cleveland on a regular basis..

I sure would have liked to see Muni, though.. It seems as if all of the seats are angled in an appropriate direction..

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

Thanks MARIO!! Night looks great!

[soup]

I never went to the stadium, but I have always thought the place looked ominous (if that makes any sense).

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

I never went to the stadium, but I have always thought the place looked ominous (if that makes any sense).

Fortress like? Not as warm or welcoming as someplace in the Bronx? I'd agree. But if this is how Osborn evolved in the 9 years since 161st & River, I guess it was inevitable. Look at the Toyota Camry since it's 1982 introduction. No two people will agree on which of over 5 versions of that car is the best! :)

Personally, I find CMS's exterior a good evolution over the OYS exterior, but inside, the place is huge but has no "soul". OYS had a personality, inside & out. And it had a mezz/loge section, negating the need for the huge upper deck and endless field-level sections required for CMS.

[soup]

Definitely. I think it looked uninviting and dark....unlike in some stadiums that had overhanging roofs and decks (think Tiger Stadium and Commiskey Park) that had character and a certain lightness, CMS just looked unwelcoming.

And I think the exterior doesn't really show a whole lot of "evolution." I think it's a different style, but I wouldn't call it better than YS

[johnfre]

The exterior is Art-Deco. I liked going to games there. Yeah it was big, and usually very small crowds. But it reeked of history. An that I loved. I miss it. I liked all the old parks, they had character.

[RichardLillard1]

Fortress like? Not as warm or welcoming as someplace in the Bronx? I'd agree. But if this is how Osborn evolved in the 9 years since 161st & River, I guess it was inevitable. Look at the Toyota Camry since it's 1982 introduction. No two people will agree on which of over 5 versions of that car is the best! :)

Personally, I find CMS's exterior a good evolution over the OYS exterior, but inside, the place is huge but has no "soul". OYS had a personality, inside & out. And it had a mezz/loge section, negating the need for the huge upper deck and endless field-level sections required for CMS.

I'll take the 97-01 (I have a 99, my girl friend has a 2000) :)

In all seriousness though, when you look at what the Indians play in now, with its levels of suits, its a wonder that something like what was done in Comiskey's final years wasn't done there. Suites could have been added at the highest parts of the upper deck and to take it a step further, suites could have been added below the upper deck, like the ones in Wrigley at present. This stadium could have been a cash cow, if renovated properly.

I guess it goes to show that nearly any of them could have been redone to be more modern, but were cast aside in the name of progress.

Also keep in mind that Yankee Stadium was originally designed for a two huge decks like Cleveland Municipal had, the city had zoning laws to be met though and thus the idea of the mezzanine was introduced.


Richard

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

I'll take the 97-01 (I have a 99, my girl friend has a 2000) :)

In all seriousness though, when you look at what the Indians play in now, with its levels of suits, its a wonder that something like what was done in Comiskey's final years wasn't done there. Suites could have been added at the highest parts of the upper deck and to take it a step further, suites could have been added below the upper deck, like the ones in Wrigley at present. This stadium could have been a cash cow, if renovated properly.

I guess it goes to show that nearly any of them could have been redone to be more modern, but were cast aside in the name of progress.

Also keep in mind that Yankee Stadium was originally designed for a two huge decks like Cleveland Municipal had, the city had zoning laws to be met though and thus the idea of the mezzanine was introduced.


Richard

97-01: The sleekest cleanest looking Camry of them all! I agree. The 02 - 06 looks like a balloon, and the 93 - 96 is - uhm, it - err-ahh - kinda is - was..ohhh, I can't find the words for it! That edition failed to equal the sum if it's parts, as though the different panels came off different cars. The 85 - 92 - priceless! Pure Camry and the basis for(almost) everything that followed.

As for "suites" - why does the measure of a park always have to be based on the number of luxury boxes or suites, or the potential of how many could be added?

If I wanted to sink into a couch in an airconditioned box with a fridge fulla drinks nearby, I wouldn't even have to leave my house! :crazy

I don't go to ballparks for that CRAP. I go to get a sunburn, sometimes on only one side of my body/face, or even to get bombed by a gull or something, to savor the sights & smells of a ballfield. Not to be coddled like the Trumps & the Rocs!

[RuthMayBond]

In all seriousness though, when you look at what the Indians play in now, with its levels of suits, Is this a comment on the luxury boxes, or on the guys that like to conduct business during the game? ;)

[Eyeshade]

Nice!! Suites/suits, it's all the same.

[BMF]

Yes, that is him.

Here is my comment (Post #34) from the TBS Broadcasting thread
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=68653&page=2

Here is a picture of him 16 years later (2006) from the Indians website

wow talk about dedication to a team:gt

[BMF]

dont know if this was covered but what was capacity in that place it looked huge.

[chip]

74,208 for baseball.

[RuthMayBond]

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/clevel.htm

[RichardLillard1]

Suites, I should correct that, but I think the mistake is just as good!

I don't think a ballpark should be measured by it's luxury suites either, but from an owner's standpoint, ballparks are measured that way. I was merely trying to point out that if the Indians' owners were so focused on money from suites, they could have simply added them to Cleveland Municipal. After all, there was definitely enough room for it and if done right, they also would have made the stadium look less dreary and empty during games.


Richard

[chip]

Richard,

You have to remember the Indians were a tenant at the stadium and didn’t have a say
in how many suites there could be or have a share in any revenue generated from them.

[RuthMayBond]

Richard,

You have to remember the Indians were a tenant at the stadium and didn’t have a say
in how many suites there could be or have a share in any revenue generated from them.
To quote Art Modell . . .
. . . "They had no choice." :grouchy

[chip]

Good one Ruth!:choke:

[RichardLillard1]

I always forget that whole tenant thing. Still, I wonder what they would have done if they did have a choice.


Richard

[Eyeshade]

Luxury suites were added to Muni in the 70's. They hung underneath the upper deck. There was one "layer" of them. I'm not sure how the revenue from the leasing of these went, if Uncle Art shared with the Indians ownership, and if so how much. I was in the suites a couple of times and thought they were quite posh, but they were pretty "plain" in retrospect. I had no idea what posh was until I spent time in one of the dugout suites at Jacobs Field. I agree with Bill Veeck though- the intelligence of the baseball fan is in inverse proportion to the cost of their seat.

[Ammo]

I attended several games here, unfortunately I only remember so much because The Jake opened when I was 7 and I only attended one Browns game here.

My great grandfather helped build this stadium. I don't know what his role was and I can't ask my grandma because she passed away four years ago.

For all the talk of this place being known as the "Mistake By The Lake," I see a ton of similarities between Cleveland Stadium and the original Yankee Stadium. If this place had a similar frieze there might be a totally different thought process about this place.

I wish they never tore it down. There was a proposed renovation plan that never took place...does anyone have any photos of it? I've searched the internet for hours unable to find it.

[RuthMayBond]

For all the talk of this place being known as the "Mistake By The Lake," I see a ton of similarities between Cleveland Stadium and the original Yankee Stadium.Quite true

<If this place had a similar frieze there might be a totally different thought process about this place.>

No, as long as it is in Cleveland and not in the big apple, it would never get commensurate respect

[Ammo]

Quite true

<If this place had a similar frieze there might be a totally different thought process about this place.>

No, as long as it is in Cleveland and not in the big apple, it would never get commensurate respect

Well, think of all the respect Tiger Stadium gets here. That's not in NY.

The biggest difference was that this stadium was just too massive for baseball...plus the Indians were in the toilet for decades. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE The Jake...it's a much better ballpark for baseball than the Stadium was. I mainly wanted to keep the old stadium for football purposes. At least Cleveland Browns Stadium is built on the site.

As an architectural structure, it's a jewel, IMO.

[elancaster]

As an architectural structure, it's a jewel, IMO.

Agreed 150%.

Having not attended a Browns game at Municipal Stadium and experienced its horrible cold and winds, I still say the place should've been preserved. The few pictures I've seen of its outside suggest a classic Art Deco palace, plus the capacity was phenomenal. Yes, the Indians had so many demoralizing awful seasons, but that didn't mean the place stunk. I wish it could have been transplanted to Flushing! Roosevelt Stadium in Jersey City, also demolished, had an outside similar to Municipal.

I've seen a few pictures of the Jake, and I love the monument park, or whatever it's called. Nice touch, but still not the monolithic and classic art deco confection.

[Eyeshade]

Yay! Someone else sees the similarities between OYS and Muni. They were only built 8 years or so apart and by the same firm.
The renovation as I remember it was more of a "lets put a dome on it" and proposed by Art Modell's group who managed the place a nd had the Tribe as a tenant. It was butt-ugly with a dome over it. It looked like a really big indoor driving range.

[Ammo]

Yay! Someone else sees the similarities between OYS and Muni. They were only built 8 years or so apart and by the same firm.
The renovation as I remember it was more of a "lets put a dome on it" and proposed by Art Modell's group who managed the place a nd had the Tribe as a tenant. It was butt-ugly with a dome over it. It looked like a really big indoor driving range.

I don't recall there being a dome in the concept photos. I saw concept photos on TV at the time when the Browns were going through their turmoil (thank God I was so young when the Browns left...it may have killed me if it happened today)...there was a lot of glass...very similar to Cleveland Browns Stadium actually. Makes me wonder what could have been had they renovated...what could have been done to make such an ancient structure state of the art and built with sightlines best suited for football...is it even possible? Maybe do something a la Soldier Field (except Cleveland Stadium is so massive that you probably couldn't tell from the outside)?

Make no mistake about it...The Jake is THE ballpark for baseball in Cleveland...but man sometimes I wish I was a little older to truly appreciate the stadium when it was around.

[chip]

If you asked me I’d say that CMS was far better for baseball than football, after all it was built for baseball.
One funny thing about how big it was is that it had as many unobstructed seats as the Jake has seats.

[RuthMayBond]

If you asked me I’d say that CMS was far better for baseball than football, after all it was built for baseball.
Not to try to attract the Olympics?

[chip]

Ruth,
Are you kidding?:o

[RuthMayBond]

Ruth,
Are you kidding?:oI haven't read up on its history, but I have heard that mentioned :silent:

[Ammo]

I haven't read up on its history, but I have heard that mentioned :silent:

It's true. Back then Cleveland was the #5 Metropolitan area in the U.S. It was built in a failed attempt to host the Olympics.

[RuthMayBond]

It's true. Back then Cleveland was the #5 Metropolitan area in the U.S. It was built in a failed attempt to host the Olympics.
I also read that the city of Cleveland did NOT sign the Indians to a lease before they built Muni, so at least it wasn't built for baseball

[The Old Ballpark]

James Toman's excellent book "Cleveland Stadium" published by the Cleveland Landmarks Press in 1981 and revised several times through 1997 addresses several of these questions.

According to the book the stadium was built primarily for baseball although designed for other events too. It was assumed that the Indians would move permanently to the lakefront. The breakdown of negotiations with the Tribe to sign the expected lease came long after the stadium had been designed and was under construction.

Also, according to Toman's book, while the stadium was designed to accomodate track and field, Cleveland never bid on or even contemplated a bid the 1932 Olympics. That is an urban legend, albeit an often repeated one. I know I have read it repeated as fact in more than one ballparks history book.

[RuthMayBond]

According to the book the stadium was built primarily for baseball although designed for other events too. It was assumed that the Indians would move permanently to the lakefront. The breakdown of negotiations with the Tribe to sign the expected lease came long after the stadium had been designed and was under construction.
Built primarily for baseball but didn't have the Tribe under contract before construction started? Cleveland government hasn't changed

[chip]

Ammo,

You’re thinking of the Labinski plan.

Art Modell had Ron Labinski from HOK do the design.
Basically the plan called for lowering and moving the field forward.
They would add more rows of seats to the front of the lower deck and eliminate
the lower deck seats behind the columns. More loges would be built under the
existing. There would be retractable seats from the foul poles to the bleachers
to bring them in closer for football. The entire roof would be removed and a new
crown shaped canopy built. There would also be new locker rooms and team museums
built behind the bleachers. Also all of the aluminum louvers would be replaced with black glass.

[YankeeFanBx]

I had wondered why CMS and OYS had kind of the same look, and looked closely akin to each other, now I know why that is.
I remember seeing Cleve. Yankee games on TV and being overwhelmed by how big it was (and how empty most of the time).
I just couldn't believe there was a stadium bigger than OYS.
It was VAST!

[Ammo]

Ammo,

You’re thinking of the Labinski plan.

Art Modell had Ron Labinski from HOK do the design.
Basically the plan called for lowering and moving the field forward.
They would add more rows of seats to the front of the lower deck and eliminate
the lower deck seats behind the columns. More loges would be built under the
existing. There would be retractable seats from the foul poles to the bleachers
to bring them in closer for football. The entire roof would be removed and a new
crown shaped canopy built. There would also be new locker rooms and team museums
built behind the bleachers. Also all of the aluminum louvers would be replaced with black glass.






Wow...I wish they went with this plan for the stadium...except built exclusively football because I like the fact that the Tribe moved to the Jake.

Thanks for the pics!

[PurpleMustReign]

Why didn't theydo it? Could they not agree on the funding?

[ballpark visions]

Here's a link to some footage of the stadium during its final days

http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n283/kosar1985/?action=view&current=PicasaWebAlbums-Browns-Browns.flv

[4evertribe]

Geez, where do I begin. I suppose first and foremost, the Indians were usually a very bad team when I started watching them play there. And yes, the Stadium was way too big for baseball... but not necessarily a bad place to see a game. The field box seats were really a treat. As I got older the thing to do was to sit in the general admission area in left field, lower level... usually you would find like minded people there. You could walk right up to the gate and get a ticket. The place was massive, but when it was filled, it was quite a site. Never sat in the bleachers.

There were an old overrun gardens on the side nearer the lake... built for the Great Lakes Exposition of 1936, I think... but they looked like a ruins to me... impressive ruins.

After years of seeing games at Muni Stadium, I was literally amazed at how close the grandstand was to the playing field at Tiger Stadium when I first saw a game there. I will never forget that...

Boiled bratwurst put a buddy of mine on the toilet during a Nolan Ryan outing.

Saw the Tribe snowed out on April 11, 1990 (Opening Day)... Sandy Alomar's first home game (he hit a no-count single). Keith Hernandez at first base.

Was last there for a Pink Floyd concert in 1994. Troughs for urinals.

Can honestly say, in spite of all the nostalgic memories stirred by looking back through these photos, that I never missed, nor do I miss, Cleveland Stadium.

[ballpark visions]

I will share my thoughts about the stadium with you. Cleveland Stadium was the first place that I ever saw a major league baseball game. I’m sure that many have found memories of the first park that they ever entered. I still remember seeing the roof of the stadium and lights for the first time as my father and I approached the stadium traveling from the East on interstate 90 as you could see it on the shore line for a few miles before you actually made it to the stadium. I can also remember seeing the field for the first time. I’ve read some comments on here about the poor condition of the grass, but for a seven year old I was in amazement over how such a wonderful green field could be inside of a massive brick and steel structure. It was at Cleveland Stadium where I first fell in love with Stadiums.

I always thought the stadium was a great place to see a game. I would often sit with the 5 or 10 thousand people and imagine what it would be like to watch a ball game there with 70 thousand others. You could sit anywhere you wanted to and nobody ever bothered you. You could also be sure that the other people there were true ball fans and not some yuppies on a tourist trip.

I went to the last baseball game ever at the stadium in 1993 with my dad and brother. They sold tickets for the final series in a three game set and you couldn’t just by tickets for the last game. That was a real classy move by a franchise who hardly ever put a product on the field that was worth watching and had trouble breaking a million fans for a season. We went to the game without tickets but my father had promised me we would see the game. We tried to buy tickets from scalpers for over two hours but my dad didn’t have enough money to pay over 100 bucks per ticket to get in. After the game had started, we were about to give up when we saw a guy by an auxiliary entrance. He called us over and let us in the stadium for $ 20. We stood through the whole game and had a great time.

[jnakamura]

Found on Flickr



http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomsheridan/3734209772/in/pool-stadiums

Same site...different "ballpark"



http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomsheridan/3704570573/in/set-72157621539478681/

[tugger]

The world's least comfortable commode.

[chip]

I found some new/old photos.

First event-Max Schmeling vs Young Stribling


Line for World Series tickets 1948


Indians Yankee double header 1961


Rolling Stones 1975


as far away as you could get.

[EdTarbusz]

I found some new/old photos.


Line for World Series tickets 1948


[/IMG]

This may a line to get into the World Series, itself. Tickets for the 1948 World Series were sold strictly by mail order, and were not sold at the box office.

[chip]

Ed,

I found that photo on a Plain Dealer photo archive site and it was titled the way I stated.
But they could be wrong.

Here are a few more……

[Lpeters199]

From Sports Illustrated Vault:

[johnfre]

[QUOTE=chip;1616180]Ed,

I found that photo on a Plain Dealer photo archive site and it was titled the way I stated.
But they could be wrong.

Here are a few more……



Never thought I'd make a comparison of Cleveland and Paris. But that tree lined park in the center of this photo reminds me of the park where the Eiffel Tower sits in Paris (although the park above is much smaller in scale) Does that tree lined park still exist in Cleveland?

[DrBear]

Why, yes it is still there, according to bing maps:

[Sean O]

I just received an original blueprint (on vellum, no less) from Cleveland Stadium's upper deck. I'll take some photos and post later.

[chip]

Awsome Sean O!
Can't wait to see.

[chip]

Evolution?

[chip]

Here are two photos I found to compare the distance and height of the upper decks at CMS and the Jake. I had to mirror the Jake photo because the original
was taken from right field.

I miss the old upper box seat :(

[chip]

Here is another version......

[locke40]

I found some new/old photos.

as far away as you could get.


The farthest seat in the house, and it still feels right "on-top" of the action. The less we see of the use of support columns, the more advantages we notice. This same equivalent seat in the New Yankee stadium feels about 80 feet farther back. Progress? I contend that progress in this day and age would INCLUDE support columns.


I just received an original blueprint (on vellum, no less) from Cleveland Stadium's upper deck. I'll take some photos and post later.

Sean O, where have you been hiding these blueprints?! Would love to check them out.

[chip]

Locke40,
Would you believe me if I told you that Frank Howard hit a ball up
where that pic was taken?

[Chevy114]

Evolution?



Lol sad, but good!

[FENWAY FRANKY]

:)I like the 1+1 logic!!

[lollar]

Locke,

Those seats may look to be on top of the action, but believe me, it was farther away that that. The upper deck in that place made all the players look like ants.

[chip]

lollar,

I totally disagree with you.
The entire upper deck at CMS was lower and closer to the field
than the upper deck at the Jake.

If the players looked like ants at CMS what do they look like to you
at the Jake?

[chip]

Here is a cad drawing of the old stadium upper deck
with the Jake upper deck outlined above.

I like how much of the Jakes right field is actually outside
of the old stadium.

[Sean O]

From the Cleveland Stadium blueprint I bought off of ebay:









Dramatically larger versions (just click on an image and the magnifying glass to see it in 2816x2112 full-size:

http://picasaweb.google.com/seanpholland/ClevelandStadium#

[EdTarbusz]

Here is a cad drawing of the old stadium upper deck
with the Jake upper deck outlined above.

I like how much of the Jakes right field is actually outside
of the old stadium.

The upper deck seats at Jacobs Field shown outside of the Cleveland Stadium outline are the worst seats in the house.

[chip]

Thanks Sean O!

Nice details of the Upper Deck. I could have used this yesterday morning
when I was working on my drawing. I have a print of the entire upper deck
plan and one print of a section through both decks. But this shows more dimensions
and the riser layouts.

Just in case you didn't know what area of the stadium this is from I outlined
it for you in this pic………



I’ll try to take photos of my prints like you did and post them also.

Thanks again,
chip

[RuthMayBond]

Locke40,
Would you believe me if I told you that Frank Howard hit a ball up
where that pic was taken?Doubtful, since Luke Easter hit the longest there

[RuthMayBond]

Here is a cad drawing of the old stadium upper deck
with the Jake upper deck outlined above.

I like how much of the Jakes right field is actually outside
of the old stadium.You'd rather have the top of 504 than the middle of 522?

[RuthMayBond]

Does anyone remember if there were lower-deck GA in foul territory?

[lollar]

Chip,

They look very close to the field at the Jake. Easy to see the expressions on their faces. The stands are closer to the field than at Cleveland Stadium, so you are right on top of everything. At Cleveland stadium you weren't only high above the action but also far away from it.

[EdTarbusz]

Does anyone remember if there were lower-deck GA in foul territory?

I think there were a few sections. I think that the GA sections started at about the bullpens.

[chip]

lollar,

I’m confused on how you think that the upper deck is closer at the Jake.
Here is another photo of a section cut through both stadiums. CMS in red
and the Jake in white.

[lollar]

Yep you're absolutely right.

[Bernard Shakey]

I think there were a few sections. I think that the GA sections started at about the bullpens.

Regarding GA at the stadium, I can speak for the 70s and 80s only. GA started in the left and right field areas one section beyond the end of the field boxes. Often times, those sections were completely empty and created an earlier version of the NYS moat, although one merely needed to the ability to walk to transverse the moat. When a large crowd would be on hand, the red seats in those sections were sold as box seats, meaning only an aisle separated customers who paid for box seats from those who paid for GA. The aisles that marked the beginning of the GA sections was located between the end of the field boxes and the bullpen, but was very close to the bullpen. Seating charts from that era also showed outfield sections of the upper deck (yellow seats only) as GA, but fans were usually kept out by ushers so that there wasn't a need to clean those areas every night.

Here is a photo of my oldest son at the stadium from earlier in this same thread. This is an August 1993 game vs. the Yankees. We are seated in the right field GA area. All of the seats in those sections, both red and yellow, were GA. It was truely a first come first served seating scenario. In left field, you can see the one section that divides the field boxes from the GA area. Since this was a Sunday game against the Yankees, folks have paid the box seat prices to fill the divider section. For this game, the bleachers were open as well. During the 70s, the bleachers were open for every game. This changed in the 80s as the team only opened the bleachers for day games and games with large crowds expected.

In the 80s, I believe GA cost around $4.

[RuthMayBond]

GA started in the left and right field areas one section beyond the end of the field boxes.

When a large crowd would be on hand, the red seats in those sections were sold as box seats, meaning only an aisle separated customers who paid for box seats from those who paid for GA.

In the 80s, I believe GA cost around $4.GAs right next to the boxes sure were a bargain, I sat there every time :dance

[PeteU]

I was watching the Ravens-Browns game yesterday from Cleveland Browns Stadium, and I got to wondering....how much of an overlap is there in the site between Municipal Stadium and Cleveland Browns Stadium? Is the gridiron at CBS located in the same or similar area that it was at CMS? Or did the field shift significantly between the two stadiums?

[RuthMayBond]

I was watching the Ravens-Browns game yesterday from Cleveland Browns Stadium, and I got to wondering....how much of an overlap is there in the site between Municipal Stadium and Cleveland Browns Stadium? Is the gridiron at CBS located in the same or similar area that it was at CMS? Or did the field shift significantly between the two stadiums?post number 66

[soup]

I was watching the Ravens-Browns game yesterday from Cleveland Browns Stadium, and I got to wondering....how much of an overlap is there in the site between Municipal Stadium and Cleveland Browns Stadium? Is the gridiron at CBS located in the same or similar area that it was at CMS? Or did the field shift significantly between the two stadiums?

check out post #66 in this thread

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1456579&postcount=66

[chip]

RuthMayBond,
Here is my story. I think this happened back in 1992.
One night I was sitting at work bored to death so to pass the time I was doodling a picture of the old stadium from the perspective of sitting behind home plate. A friend of mine saw my picture and commented how he saw Frank Howard hit a ball up into the upper deck and pointed at a spot half way up in the yellow seats and a few seats from the railing at the end of the grandstand in left field. He then told me that Howard hit another homer in the same game and the ball landed in the last row of the red seats and two sections to the left of the previous home run. Of course I said your full of horsebleep because both of those homers would have been farther than Luke Easters.
According to all of the old programs and media guides that I have say that Easter’s home run landed in the upper deck section 4 a total of 477 feet from home plate. The Indians had marked the seat with a sticker that gave the date and the distance.
In getting more details of these home runs from my friend he told me that Sam McDowell gave up both homers. With that I got very existed because the following day was Wahoo Winterfest, an event the Indians would have just before the start of spring training. Anyway one of the guest speakers that day was Sam McDowell. So my friend and myself went down to ask Sam about the homers. During the seminar they took questions from the audience so my friend said to Sam “ I was at a game in May of 1968 and you gave up two home runs to Frank Howard “. To witch Sam replied “ picky, picky, picky “. After the crowd stopped laughing I said “ We don’t care that you gave up the home runs, we just want to know how fare they went. After the crowd stopped laughing again he said. Well the first one I threw him a fastball, he hit it so hard I thought it was going into orbit. It landed in the first section of the upper deck in left field, half way up in the yellow seats and a few seats from the railing. He said if he would have hit it about four feet towards center that it would have gone out of the stadium. He then said that the next one he threw him another fastball and that he must not have gotten all of that one because it landed two sections to the left in the last row of red seats. Sam’s recollection of the events matched what my friend saw perfectly.
After the seminar I walked over and I asked Sam why the Indians consider Luke Easter’s home run the farthest at the stadium. He asked me, who did Luke Easter play for? I said the Indians. He asked who did Frank Howard play for? I said the Senators. He said that’s your answer.
As we walked out of the seminar I bumped into Indians VP and head of PR Bob Dibiaso. So I asked him why Easter’s is considered the farthest home run and he told me because right field is farther at the stadium. I told him that I had a copy of the blueprints and that the stadium is symmetrical. He said that my blueprints are wrong. I told him that he was crazy and walked away. I actually think there is a conspiracy and a cover up in the organization.
My favorite part of the story is this. One day after working a game against the Yankees, I used to usher.
I waited outside the Yankee locker room to ask Frank Howard, who was coaching first base for the Yankees, if he remembered the home runs. When he came out of the locker room I asked him if I could ask him few questions and if he could follow me up into the grandstand. To my surprise he said yes. As we stood in a tunnel in the lower deck behind home plate I pointed up into the upper deck where he hit the home runs. He told me that he wouldn’t doubt that he hit balls up there but he said he hit so many balls like that that he has no idea where they landed. He said that when he played you hit the ball put your head down and ran the basses. He said he was sorry he couldn’t help any more than that and I thanked him for his time.
Although he didn’t give me the answer I was hoping for it was still a cool answer non-the less.
Since all of this happened I have met two other people that where at the game and they also confirmed where the balls landed. I have also found the box score on the internet the date was May 16, 1968

Here is a drawing that gives the distance on a flat line and the elevation at witch they struck the grandstand.

[RuthMayBond]

Here is my story. I think this happened back in 1992.

After the seminar I walked over and I asked Sam why the Indians consider Luke Easter’s home run the farthest at the stadium. He asked me, who did Luke Easter play for? I said the Indians. He asked who did Frank Howard play for? I said the Senators. He said that’s your answer.
Seriously, I totally believe this. I also wonder if players from OTHER teams reached the CF bleachers

<I have also found the box score on the internet the date was May 16, 1968>

I would love to get the newspaper account of this.
Oh, and VERY cool story to be involved with :bowdown:

[tugger]

GA at the old stadium was the best! In 1990 for $4 and you could be right next to the foul pole, inches from the playing field.

[RuthMayBond]

GA at the old stadium was the best! In 1990 for $4 and you could be right next to the foul pole, inches from the playing field.I think they're now $27 :banghead:

[cringey]

Seriously, I totally believe this. I also wonder if players from OTHER teams reached the CF bleachers

<I have also found the box score on the internet the date was May 16, 1968>

I would love to get the newspaper account of this.
Oh, and VERY cool story to be involved with :bowdown:

I believe that story too.

On a similar topic: Are the Orioles the only team that marks HR's that go a far distance? At Camden Yards past the seats I remember brass markers all over by the building marking HR's for all players.

[TJH1923]

Since Frank Howard was mentioned, this was posted on the Yankee Stadium Pre-Renovation thread. Take a look at the blast he hits off of Whitey Ford.....must have travelled 470 Ft......and it was only a double.....but he smoked it. The at bat is at the 4:09 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjmkVNG1_-M

[elmer]

Luke Easter HR

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Fond memories of this park. Where I saw my first MLB game. As a very young boy my father would take me along on train and bus excursions in the late 1950's from Buffalo NY. A good number of Bosox and Yankee fans going down to Cleveland from Buffalo.

Here is a change in that distance to CF.

[elmer]

Wes Farrell homer

Chip any chance you could pinpoint this homer for me by drawing in
section 43 on your map? How many rows in the section?

Elmer

[chip]

elmer,

Section 43 was the last section of the grandstand in left field and it had 42 rows.
If I measure to the center of section 43 and 10 rows back like the article says
I come up with 458 feet. Billy Evans was definitely off in measuring 433 feet
because it was 435 feet to the end of the grandstand.

[chip]

I was just wondering if anybody has any information on the color of the seats.
My earliest recollection of the colors would match the photos above from the late
60’s to early 70’s with the seats behind the columns being yellow and the seats in
front being switched over from I believe white to red.
My question is what where they before that. I found some color photos on the net
that shows them all green. Where they all the same shade of green? In some photos
it looks like the seats behind the columns are a lighter color. Also I worked a Browns
game guarding the elevator entrance on the roof. There was a seat up there that I think
was one of the original box seats. The seat also looked like it had the original paint on it
and it matched the teal green of the seats at Yankee Stadium.

Anyway here are the pics…….

[chip]

Here is a photo of seats that someone restores and sells.
Take a look at the color options.

[elmer]

elmer,

Section 43 was the last section of the grandstand in left field and it had 42 rows.
If I measure to the center of section 43 and 10 rows back like the article says
I come up with 458 feet. Billy Evans was definitely off in measuring 433 feet
because it was 435 feet to the end of the grandstand.



Thank You Chip!!!

Elmer

[RfkFedEx]

Great pics Chip!

Not sure I've ever seen color pics of the interior of CMS from that far back.

Do you think those wooden seats w/ the straight backs were salvaged in 1995 or had all of the original seats been replaced with plastic by then?

[chip]

They are probably from ’95.
The only plastic seats where the box seats in the upper deck.
(All the seats in front of the columns)
And the field box seats in the lower deck and the first four rows
of seats across the isle from the field boxes.
The rest of the stadium still had the original seats until the end.

[chip]

Here is an old postcard drawing showing what the original lights looked like.
I believe that Cleveland Stadium was the first major stadium
built with permanent lights for nighttime events.
I still think the old stadium was ahead of its time in some ways.



Look familiar New Yankee Stadium fans?

[RfkFedEx]

The rest of the stadium still had the original seats until the end.

I guess the roof must have preserved them well.

Though if I were a Cleveland guy, I'd rather have my seats the way they looked in 1995 than all freshly painted today.

But of course I'd have to have one of those pictured if I were an Indians/Browns fan regardless of how it looked.

[RfkFedEx]

Here is an old postcard drawing showing what the original lights looked like.

Any idea what the event was pictured in the post card?

Could it have possibly been just the artist's exaggerated rendering of CMS's monstrosity for her day?

There must be 200k in that crowd.

[chip]

I think it’s just an artist rendering before the stadium was finished being built.
Here is a photo of what they based it on. Notice the incomplete louvers on the sides.



But if I guessed I would say that the event is a boxing match since that was the first event
held at the stadium.

[RfkFedEx]

I assume that no one on BF has ever found any pics of the concourses.

I'd love to see how wide they were. Same w/ OYS.

I know the concourses were probably dark and didn't photograph well, and cameras were a pain in the ass to take to games back then.

[jnakamura]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/djdamian/1160030529/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/djdamian/1160882246/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33322111@N00/464605202/

[chip]

I finally found a photo of the concept drawing.
The exterior is very similar to Yankee Stadium
and Ohio Stadium. But do to building during the
depression they used brick and aluminum as a
cheaper option.

[RfkFedEx]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/djdamian/1160030529/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/djdamian/1160882246/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33322111@N00/464605202/

I take it that the big pic w/ the kid in the Colorado Rockies jacket was shot on the lower level concourse?

It appears wider than I would have expected. I assume the upper level concourse was more narrow?

[chip]

RfkFedEx,

Yes the lower level concourse was the widest because it extended under the grandstand.
The concourses behind the top of the lower deck and the upper deck concourse where
about 24 feet wide at there widest but the ramps where next to the outside wall and the
width of them could narrow the concourses to about 12 feet wide.

chip

[RfkFedEx]

Thanks Chip. I'm glad the depession watered down the outside of CMS bc the OH Stadium and OYS like renderings in your post card would have been way more traumatic to lose in the 1990s.

[chip]

I found another color shot......



I love all that green.

[chip]

and I just found some old color films on youtube...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQkFezZND4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyTnLZOWY-E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B_wXNYdVR4

[Lpeters199]

On the lake:

[Chevy114]

On the lake:

Gotta love the racist indian!

[SABRSusan]

I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before. I have such fond memories of the old Municipal Stadium. I actually worked there the summer of '87 as a beer/dog vendor (the summer I was 19). You would have to queue up by one of the back gates and the supervisor would call people/point to them depending on where you ranked in sales and/or whether or not he liked you. (It's very similar to the scenes in On the Waterfront where the guys queue to see if they'll work that day.)

I remember feeling as though I was walking through some dank cavern when I was going through the tunnels. You'd get whatever you were selling that day (in preferred order: beer, hot dogs, footlongs, soda, peanuts, popcorn, cotton candy) and walk out into the stands. I remember the noise of Opening Day, when they could pack 75,000 into the stands, and the night games when there were 5,000 people and you were lucky to be working. I remember the peculiar mixed scent of boiled hot dogs, spilled beer, sweat, urine, and cheap aftershave as I sold beer or hot dogs to loud guys who were already drunk. I remember the feeling of concrete under my sneakers as climbed up, up, up to the upper deck carrying two full cases of beer. I can't remember how many guys thought they were the first one to tell me they already had a footlong and would I like to see it? (Seriously, you guys seriously think that's funny or a way to pick up a girl?)

My husband salvaged a chair from the upper deck when they were tearing down the stadium. It's in our mudroom. My cleats and glove are on it. :)

[chip]

Wow!
A fellow former coworker, I was an usher.
I’m glad you found this thread. Love the footlong story.
I really miss those big 75,000 crowds. I have a feeling the
people that say the old stadium was too big, never experienced
a game with that many people. It was Awesome!
Unfortunately I bet we will be seeing a lot of those 5,000 crowds
with the team they are putting on the field.

[SABRSusan]

When did you work there, Chip?

[chip]

SABRSusan,

I think I started midway 1991 thru 1996.

[chip]

Gotta love the racist indian!

I think we should ban all cartoons!
As a white man I’m offended buy this guy……..

[SABRSusan]

But Homer's yellow...

[Lpeters199]

All right, you politically correct Cleveland fans. Click on this link, and you'll find something to offend all of you .

http://images.google.com/images?rls=ig&hl=en&source=hp&q=cleveland+indians+source%3Alife&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

[chip]

Lpeters199,

Awesome link!

Thanks,
chip

[SABRSusan]

All right, you politically correct Cleveland fans. Click on this link, and you'll find something to offend all of you .

http://images.google.com/images?rls=ig&hl=en&source=hp&q=cleveland+indians+source%3Alife&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

Wow! Great pictures. Thank you.

[chip]

How about CONCERTS!

The Rolling Stones July 1, 1978 Att: 82,238


Pink Floyd June 25, 1977 Att: 82,986

[4evertribe]

Any photos of the gardens on the north side of the Stadium?

[chip]

Any photos of the gardens on the north side of the Stadium?

Here are two postcard photos I found.

[4evertribe]

Okay, if my memory serves me correctly, there was a concourse under the lower deck stands. A concourse at the top of the lower deck stands, and an upper deck concourse. Right?

[Eyeshade]

Okay, if my memory serves me correctly, there was a concourse under the lower deck stands. A concourse at the top of the lower deck stands, and an upper deck concourse. Right?

Yes, the Upper deck had an interior concourse, the lower deck had a fairly wide interior concourse (which had the old Indians HOF at around section 3-8 or so along with most of the souvenir and concessions, which I would love to see old photos of) and an outer one at the top that had some concession stands. It also had the largest number of non-functionla.malfunctioning restrooms in the country.

[RuthMayBond]

It also had the largest number of non-functionla.malfunctioning restrooms in the country.And every time someone misspells "through" as "trough", all the guys know what I am talking about

[RfkFedEx]

I just noticed the home plate shaped roof tops on those little sticky outie thingies on the outside of the stadium behind the dugouts. Wonder if that was intentional or accidental. My guess would be the latter.

What was in those portions of the building? Stair cases or offices maybe?

[Eyeshade]

And every time someone misspells "through" as "trough", all the guys know what I am talking about

Yep, the spacious troughs. Ah, I can smell them now...beautiful memory

[Eyeshade]

If you are speaking of what I think you are speaking of there were offices in those towers on the upper floors and Ticket offices for the teams (Browns and Indians) on the ground floor. The Indians were in Gate A I think and the Browns were in Gate B. I might have them reversed. I spent a decent amount of time in the Indians offices and they weren't exactly the best. The restaurant was kinda cozy and charming and the press box used to have free beer. Boy, times have changed. I used to walk out of there after shooting a game with a six pack for the road.

[chip]

The Ushers and Ticket Takers Office was in Gate D.

[RfkFedEx]

So there were four of those towers. Wish I knew the architectural term to ID such a structure.

Did the other two towers on the east side also house something, or were they hollow?

[chip]

Here is a map of the four gates.


And some photos of my blueprints.

Here is the lowest level of Gate A


Here is the top of the lower deck at Gate A


and the upper deck at Gate B

[RfkFedEx]

Thx Chip.

pic #2 Looks like the men only had two commodes and two sinks. At least the piss troughs looked adequate for the time.

[chip]

I new somebody would notice that.:laugh

[4evertribe]

My uncle has a story about standing in a long line in the restroom only to find that this particular queue led to a garbage can.

[Eyeshade]

During the World Series of Rock concerts in the 70's it was not unusual for women to "use" the mens rooms at Muni. Hey, it was a different time. Guys would use sinks, garbage cans, floor drains...

[RuthMayBond]

My uncle has a story about standing in a long line in the restroom only to find that this particular queue led to a garbage can.C'mon, you can't just stop there :hyper:

[RuthMayBond]

During the World Series of Rock concerts in the 70's it was not unusual for women to "use" the mens rooms at Muni. But enough about Elton John

[alpineinc]

escapedtowisconsin (http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=69805768@N00&q=stadium&m=text#page=2) on Flickr.

1994, Billy Graham.




1996, "The Final Play", last time the stadium was open to the public before demolition.

[alpineinc]

Demolition.

[alpineinc]

1985. davidwilson1949 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/4299910609/in/set-72157623145898115/) on Flickr.

[alpineinc]

rtompstyle (http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=33322111@N00&q=cleveland&m=text) on Flickr.

1970's






1983. Beautiful.

[EdTarbusz]

....................

[EdTarbusz]

During the World Series of Rock concerts in the 70's it was not unusual for women to "use" the mens rooms at Muni. Hey, it was a different time. Guys would use sinks, garbage cans, floor drains...

It wasn't that unusual to see it during Indians games. I'd say that I saw it at least once or twice a season. One time I saw a woman using a trough.

[Eyeshade]

LOL. You won't see that sort of thing anymore, and certainly not at The Jake, errr, Prog, whatever. I miss the 70's certain sorta "open-ness".

[EdTarbusz]

LOL. You won't see that sort of thing anymore, and certainly not at The Jake, errr, Prog, whatever. I miss the 70's certain sorta "open-ness".

Prog. In my mind, Jacobs Field will always be Jacobs Field.

[4evertribe]

That place was just too big for baseball. Sure on the rare occasions when it was packed it was a site to behold, but it just wasn't a baseball park. Of course, it really wasn't a football park either. But I still had some really good times there. I think the last time I was there was for a Pink Floyd show -- imagine a giant disco ball casting thousands of points of light everywhere. Whoa.

[EdTarbusz]

That place was just too big for baseball. Sure on the rare occasions when it was packed it was a site to behold, but it just wasn't a baseball park. Of course, it really wasn't a football park either. But I still had some really good times there. I think the last time I was there was for a Pink Floyd show -- imagine a giant disco ball casting thousands of points of light everywhere. Whoa.

The last time I was there was the Indians final game, which they lost to the White Sox. I don't remember many tears being shed that day.

[chip]

Ed,

You must not have been looking in my direction.:cry:

[DiggerODell]

Here is a map of the four gates.




This overhead view of Municipal always reminds me of an "arrowhead". Was it designed purposely for that reason? Cleveland Indians . . . the original "Arrowhead Stadium".

[chip]

I don't see it.:shrug:

[Yankees73]

no offense of course but what a Freakin dump...No wonder why the Browns left and lucky the Tribe didn't

[RuthMayBond]

no offense of course but what a Freakin dump...No wonder why the Browns left and lucky the Tribe didn't

And how tactfully said

[The Old Ballpark]

And how tactfully said

Just consider the source and enjoy your memories.

The Old Mistake had a lot of flaws. But at least it was never packed with Yankee fans.