Proving a point.....

[Go Cardinals]

My brother (NOT a baseball player) thinks that he knows *EVERYTHING* about working out (when I don't think he doesn). He thinks that his workout routine is good, because it is what the so called "trainer" (a guy trying to take class at a local junior colledge) told him to start off with. He does almost the same thing over and over... 12 reps, 75-85%, 1.5 seconds up and 1.5 seconds down, 2 sets, 30 seconds off inbetween.... and the same machines over and over... he doesn't bench, or do core stuff other than a abb machine. He claims that he is doing it right, while I say you have to change it. I say that you need to not do the same exercise over and over in the same enviroment... over and over, same speed... over and over. I say he needs to do controll speed for explosiveness (like what John Doyle says). I say he should mix it up... different angles, different exercise, and not just isolating it on a machine.

I have a hunch that I am right, but I want to proove a point. For sports and being a better athlete in general, who is right? My views (basically what John doyle says, and alot of knowedgeable people) or my brother views (same thing over and over. No purpose, no goal, just working out to work out... getting better for lacrosse). Who is right?

Thank you,

Connor

[Jake Patterson]

My brother (NOT a baseball player) thinks that he knows *EVERYTHING* about working out (when I don't think he doesn). He thinks that his workout routine is good, because it is what the so called "trainer" (a guy trying to take class at a local junior colledge) told him to start off with. He does almost the same thing over and over... 12 reps, 75-85%, 1.5 seconds up and 1.5 seconds down, 2 sets, 30 seconds off inbetween.... and the same machines over and over... he doesn't bench, or do core stuff other than a abb machine. He claims that he is doing it right, while I say you have to change it. I say that you need to not do the same exercise over and over in the same enviroment... over and over, same speed... over and over. I say he needs to do controll speed for explosiveness (like what John Doyle says). I say he should mix it up... different angles, different exercise, and not just isolating it on a machine.

I have a hunch that I am right, but I want to proove a point. For sports and being a better athlete in general, who is right? My views (basically what John doyle says, and alot of knowedgeable people) or my brother views (same thing over and over. No purpose, no goal, just working out to work out... getting better for lacrosse). Who is right?

Thank you,

Connor


Check with Jon or DeezleDogg

[Jon Doyle]

My brother (NOT a baseball player) thinks that he knows *EVERYTHING* about working out (when I don't think he doesn). He thinks that his workout routine is good, because it is what the so called "trainer" (a guy trying to take class at a local junior colledge) told him to start off with. He does almost the same thing over and over... 12 reps, 75-85%, 1.5 seconds up and 1.5 seconds down, 2 sets, 30 seconds off inbetween.... and the same machines over and over... he doesn't bench, or do core stuff other than a abb machine. He claims that he is doing it right, while I say you have to change it. I say that you need to not do the same exercise over and over in the same enviroment... over and over, same speed... over and over. I say he needs to do controll speed for explosiveness (like what John Doyle says). I say he should mix it up... different angles, different exercise, and not just isolating it on a machine.

I have a hunch that I am right, but I want to proove a point. For sports and being a better athlete in general, who is right? My views (basically what John doyle says, and alot of knowedgeable people) or my brother views (same thing over and over. No purpose, no goal, just working out to work out... getting better for lacrosse). Who is right?

Thank you,

Connor
Yes you're correct. Sadly, that "trainer" is very common and sems to be in every gym across the country.

How do you lift for 1.5 seconds?

[Go Cardinals]

Yes you're correct. Sadly, that "trainer" is very common and sems to be in every gym across the country.

How do you lift for 1.5 seconds?

It was 1.5 seconds up, and 1.5 seconds down. It's this fitlinx thing on the machines. It shows your range of motion and how fast or slow you have to go.

The only thing I use the machines for are quads because my quads are weak, and I am trying to get them better (also, it's the only workout I know for it), and the leg press because my knees hurt doing real squats.

I have a question to you or anyone.... Do/ will; pushups (reg, clap, diamond etc.), pull ups (reg, triceps, or biceps), and ankle weights transfer over into better performance on the baseball feild?

[Go Cardinals]

Also john, is it ok to max out like once a month, because you still want to have good strength.... and you want good acceleration....

Here's what I've been doing.....

During the week I've been doing muscle quickness and different exercises.... climbing rope, pull ups with an uneven surface, jump ropes, wheelbarrels, ankle weights, upp hill sprints, down hill sprints, etc.... Also, I swing for 1- 3 1/2 hours....

On the weekends (friday included) I work out at the gym for a total of 6-8 hours. 2 hours of it is devoted to core.. alot of good core like med balls, and some plyo stuff (I don't know much)... 1 hours is lower body.... ie squats, quads and yes they are done on a machine which I know you don't like (how do I do thoose any differently), 2 hours devoted to upper body and 1 hour devoted to forearms, wrists grip, etc..... I do the increase speed thing, while keeping it controled for 5 of the 6 sets, while 1 set is devoted to strength. I do 5 reps of a 45-55% on the first 5, and 75-85% on the 1 set of 8. Also note that I do not do this all at once, this is friday, sat, and sunday.

On sunday I try to swim.... I do alot of free because it uses my rotator cuffs alot, I don't do butterfly because it is way too easy for me (natural at fly) so its not really worth it, I do breast stroke kicks (20 laps or so) to get powerful and flexible hips, because I'm not strong or flexible with my hips going out like that (forget the term called, but rom isn't good there, so I want to improve that), and then my own lap that I made up, water sprints....... I am in the shallow end, and I sprint out (running in the water) as fast as I can (with or without a kickboard depending on how I feel). Normally it is about 5-10 yards... then I swim free to the other end (25 yard pool) and back to where I stopped the water sprint, then I sprint into the wall..... 30 second break, then another... I do about 2 sets of ten of theese.

Next I play intense basketball against former stanford starters and a current nbadl basketball player. Thats for school basket ball.......

Well there's my workout schedule. Tonight I started a journal/ log of my workouts just like an article on your site said to do. I give good details, like my enviroment (so I can change it), reps, weight, and all the stuff, and how my body felt, where it hurts etc.

Once every 2 weeks when I feel good I try to time myself on my 40.

I want to kick it up a notch with my working out, I've really been taking it easy. And my body is rested from the last season, so its a good time to get it back going again.... And yes, I enjoy working out alot. I have a friend that goes to the gym with me....

How is my workout regimin, does it need any changes? Comments?

[cosmo34]

Yes, push ups and pull ups for a young guy. Ankle weights? I can't comment.

You can't expect different results if you keep doing the same thing over and over.

[Go Cardinals]

Yes, push ups and pull ups for a young guy. Ankle weights? I can't comment.

You can't expect different results if you keep doing the same thing over and over.

Oh yeah, I try to cycle through.... biceps are done by pull ups, then bar, then free weights, etc.... Ankle weights I try to walk around, I shuffle in them... I also throw them like a baseball sometimes when I'm bored.... (not too often in the offseason though).

[Go Cardinals]

John (or any one else, like deezledog or anyone who might know the answer), what stretches should I be doing to warm up (like in the morning before I hit or something, or at night when I'm done working out for the day)?

[cosmo34]

Also john, is it ok to max out like once a month, because you still want to have good strength.... and you want good acceleration....

Here's what I've been doing.....

During the week I've been doing muscle quickness and different exercises.... climbing rope, pull ups with an uneven surface, jump ropes, wheelbarrels, ankle weights, upp hill sprints, down hill sprints, etc.... Also, I swing for 1- 3 1/2 hours....

On the weekends (friday included) I work out at the gym for a total of 6-8 hours. 2 hours of it is devoted to core.. alot of good core like med balls, and some plyo stuff (I don't know much)... 2 hours is lower body.... ie squats, quads and yes they are done on a machine which I know you don't like (how do I do thoose any differently), 3 hours devoted to upper body and 1 hour devoted to forearms, wrists grip, etc..... I do the increase speed thing, while keeping it controled for 5 of the 6 sets, while 1 set is devoted to strength. I do 5 reps of a 45-55% on the first 5, and 75-85% on the 1 set of 8. Also note that I do not do this all at once, this is friday, sat, and sunday.

On sunday I try to swim.... I do alot of free because it uses my rotator cuffs alot, I don't do butterfly because it is way too easy for me (natural at fly) so its not really worth it, I do breast stroke kicks (20 laps or so) to get powerful and flexible hips, because I'm not strong or flexible with my hips going out like that (forget the term called, but rom isn't good there, so I want to improve that), and then my own lap that I made up, water sprints....... I am in the shallow end, and I sprint out (running in the water) as fast as I can (with or without a kickboard depending on how I feel). Normally it is about 5-10 yards... then I swim free to the other end (25 yard pool) and back to where I stopped the water sprint, then I sprint into the wall..... 30 second break, then another... I do about 2 sets of ten of theese.

Next I play intense basketball against former stanford starters and a current nbadl basketball player. Thats for school basket ball.......

Well there's my workout schedule. Tonight I started a journal/ log of my workouts just like an article on your site said to do. I give good details, like my enviroment (so I can change it), reps, weight, and all the stuff, and how my body felt, where it hurts etc.

Once every 2 weeks when I feel good I try to time myself on my 40.

I want to kick it up a notch with my working out, I've really been taking it easy. And my body is rested from the last season, so its a good time to get it back going again.... And yes, I enjoy working out alot. I have a friend that goes to the gym with me....

How is my workout regimin, does it need any changes? Comments?

That is how you spell overtraining right there. 6-8 hours? That is way overkill.

Each workout should take an hour and a half at most. After that you are just wasting time. You would get better results with a 4-5 day split.

You're 14 or so right? I'm not qualified to really give you the right formula for weights/reps/intensity so I'll let those other guys handle that, but from what I see right now you are running right towards a wall.

It's good that you are dedicated, but you might need to step back a bit.

We'll see what Jon and Deezel have to say.

[cosmo34]

Oh yeah, I try to cycle through.... biceps are done by pull ups, then bar, then free weights, etc.... Ankle weights I try to walk around, I shuffle in them... I also throw them like a baseball sometimes when I'm bored.... (not too often in the offseason though).


I meant more for your brother doing the same thing over and over.


John (or any one else, like deezledog or anyone who might know the answer), what stretches should I be doing to warm up (like in the morning before I hit or something, or at night when I'm done working out for the day)?

Full body static and dynamic stretching/warmup.

[Go Cardinals]

I meant more for your brother doing the same thing over and over.

I just foun out from my mom, that since last sunday, he's been to the gym...... over 4 times... he does lower body than upper body.... the same thing well over 4 times since this last sunday! He's so stupid!




Full body static and dynamic stretching/warmup.

Yeah, I have a word doc of some good ones somewhere on this computer, I don't remeber to look at it...lol

[Go Cardinals]

That is how you spell overtraining right there. 6-8 hours? That is way overkill.

Each workout should take an hour and a half at most. After that you are just wasting time. You would get better results with a 4-5 day split.

You're 14 or so right? I'm not qualified to really give you the right formula for weights/reps/intensity so I'll let those other guys handle that, but from what I see right now you are running right towards a wall.

It's good that you are dedicated, but you might need to step back a bit.

We'll see what Jon and Deezel have to say.

I'm sayin in 3 days.... I do it at the speed john says on his sight, but I do more of it, so it lasts longer.... also, I think I made core to small, and upper body to much... also I messed up on my math, like 4-6 hours a weekend.... not 6-8.... yeah I went to fast when I said that..... :laugh .

[Jon Doyle]

Pullups and pushups of all versions are great. Ankle weights are terrible and can actually lead to injury by disrupting proper gait and joint movements.

As I mentioned to you previously drop the plyometrics. What has become popularized as "plyometrics" is not true plyometrics. It's a joke what the "experts" have made them. True plyometric training, at your age, should be bulit into your lifting, such as when you perform a snatch, clean or push press.

I agree that your workouts are too long. Play bb as long as you want that's fine and certainly be active, but 45-60 minutes 3 days per week is more than enough. Any more than that and you're just wasting time.

[cosmo34]

Don't focus on time. Focus on the #of sets and the intensity of your workout. Doing it properly and with more intensity can drastically cut the amount of time spent, (and time wasting).

3-4 sets with more intensity is better than 5-6 sets with only one set of real work.

You might also be doing too many exercises. You're still young, your body is still going. Trust me, you do not wanna rush this. Building strength is a marathon, not a sprint.

What I would do at your age is pick 3-4 exercises per body part, 3-4 sets per exercise with ramping weights each set. Start in the 8-12 rep range for now. Since you do a 3 day split, do something like Friday-chest and tris, Saturday-legs and light shoulders, Sunday-back and bi's.

Basic, but you need to build a foundation to build a house. Remember to stretch. And be intense when you lift, but be in control. Remember those two things. Those are very, very important right now.

You don't wanna know how I know what happens when you aren't careful when you lift.

[Go Cardinals]

Don't focus on time. Focus on the #of sets and the intensity of your workout. Doing it properly and with more intensity can drastically cut the amount of time spent, (and time wasting).

3-4 sets with more intensity is better than 5-6 sets with only one set of real work.

You might also be doing too many exercises. You're still young, your body is still going. Trust me, you do not wanna rush this. Building strength is a marathon, not a sprint.

What I would do at your age is pick 3-4 exercises per body part, 3-4 sets per exercise with ramping weights each set. Start in the 8-12 rep range for now. Since you do a 3 day split, do something like Friday-chest and tris, Saturday-legs and light shoulders, Sunday-back and bi's.

Basic, but you need to build a foundation to build a house. Remember to stretch. And be intense when you lift, but be in control. Remember those two things. Those are very, very important right now.

You don't wanna know how I know what happens when you aren't careful when you lift.
I am EXTREMLY careful when I lift. Max is 4 sets 10 reps per or you stunt growth at my age (doctor said that to me).

[Go Cardinals]

True plyometric training, at your age, should be bulit into your lifting, such as when you perform a snatch, clean or push press.

What are snatches, cleans, and push presses?

[Jon Doyle]

Don't focus on time. Focus on the #of sets and the intensity of your workout. Doing it properly and with more intensity can drastically cut the amount of time spent, (and time wasting).

3-4 sets with more intensity is better than 5-6 sets with only one set of real work.

You might also be doing too many exercises. You're still young, your body is still going. Trust me, you do not wanna rush this. Building strength is a marathon, not a sprint.

What I would do at your age is pick 3-4 exercises per body part, 3-4 sets per exercise with ramping weights each set. Start in the 8-12 rep range for now. Since you do a 3 day split, do something like Friday-chest and tris, Saturday-legs and light shoulders, Sunday-back and bi's.

Basic, but you need to build a foundation to build a house. Remember to stretch. And be intense when you lift, but be in control. Remember those two things. Those are very, very important right now.

You don't wanna know how I know what happens when you aren't careful when you lift.
I agree with most of what cosmo says, good advice.

I'm not a big fan of body part splits. But that is another conversation for another time.

And never, ever use machines. They serve zero purpose and actually reinforce improper movement patterns. The only time machines are useful is for re-hab settings. Free weights, bodyweight, med balls, bands (not tubes exept for RC work) and kettlebells are great and should be the focus.

[Go Cardinals]

I agree with most of what cosmo says, good advice.

I'm not a big fan of body part splits. But that is another conversation for another time.

And never, ever use machines. They serve zero purpose and actually reinforce improper movement patterns. The only time machines are useful is for re-hab settings. Free weights, bodyweight, med balls, bands (not tubes exept for RC work) and kettlebells are great and should be the focus.

Ok, I'll never touch the machines except for my hip, because I hurt it (snapping hip) and I'm slowly trying to strengthen it...

[ChrisLDuncan]

Gotta change it up, do a variety of exercies and do the same exercise in a variety of ways. For example one week when I bench I use a wide grip, next week I use a close grip, and the next I'll use a normal grip. Doing different exercises are even better...however, there is one thing that you can do over and over again and it will be good for you: CARDIO!!! However, it does get boring after a while.

[kylebee]

I agree with most of what cosmo says, good advice.

I'm not a big fan of body part splits. But that is another conversation for another time.

And never, ever use machines. They serve zero purpose and actually reinforce improper movement patterns. The only time machines are useful is for re-hab settings. Free weights, bodyweight, med balls, bands (not tubes exept for RC work) and kettlebells are great and should be the focus.

Jon Doyle comes up big again.

Machines are good for body part-specific rehab, but otherwise I completely agree. Free weights, augmented bodyweight programs, med ball, dynadisks, and bands should be the standard.

For heavy lifting, full body integration is the key - squats, deadlifts, and cleans, for example.

[Maxx]

GC, a lot of your questions have been addressed already, but I have plenty of info on my site you can read up on. Especially check out the "periodization section." It explains ways that you can mix up your workouts to coniue to see improvement. Feel free to print out anything you need from my site: www.maxxtraining.com/stp.htm

[Jon Doyle]

True plyometric training, at your age, should be bulit into your lifting, such as when you perform a snatch, clean or push press.

What are snatches, cleans, and push presses?
They are considered Olympic Lifts. They are the best exercises to develop strength, speed, power and explosiveness. Technique is key so if you begin I recommend learning the proper methods.

They really should be a part of every baseball player's program. They can be done in a varity of mediums, but I like barbell and med ball the best.

[cosmo34]

I agree with most of what cosmo says, good advice.

I'm not a big fan of body part splits. But that is another conversation for another time.

And never, ever use machines. They serve zero purpose and actually reinforce improper movement patterns. The only time machines are useful is for re-hab settings. Free weights, bodyweight, med balls, bands (not tubes exept for RC work) and kettlebells are great and should be the focus.


Thanks, Jon.

I advised body part splits mostly because I don't feel I'm qualified to give information to a young guy do focus on the big core compound lifts. If he were a little bit older I would have shown him some of the "5X5" style programs. I'm still not 100% sure about the effects, if any, of doing compound lifts at a young age, and I didn't wanna give him bad advice. I advised a body split because it's basic, and I felt if it needed fixing, some would chime in with other ideas.

And I agree with the point of not using machines. I only use them for 2-3 exercises in my routine, unless I'm rehabbing (which coincidentally seems to be most of my time lifting lately, but thats another story). Free weights is the way to go.

But if you feel it's alright for someone his age to incorporate compound lifts into his program, I'm all for it. I know it's worked for me.