The Top Hand Release

[FiveFrameSwing]

http://www.hittingvideo.com/tophand.html

When done correctly, both hands are on the bat at contact with the ball. In the case of a right handed hitter, the right hand should release from the bat on the inside of the left shoulder as the bat follows through the hitting zone. Ideally, the hand should finish above the left shoulder with flexion in the right arm.

Do others have a better description for when the top hand should release?


I found the claim below interesting. Is this even remotely true?

Without a doubt more hitters today in the major leagues are top hand release hitters than top hand dominant hitters.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Lau Jr writes:

The scientific reasoning behind lead-arm extension is that the length of a lever determines the amount of leverage you can achieve. In the baseball swing, your front arm is the longer lever and will therefore provide more leverage and power. And that is why I warn my students not to roll their wrists over prematurely because it will keep them from maintaining the flat swing that allows for extension.

Try this experiment: Extend both hands in the direction you wish to hit the ball. Which arm appears longer? And what is the function of the top hand after contact? We know that it has a tendency to roll over, rather than extend. Does it push?

What if you let it go and let it slide off after contact? You would notice that your lead arm continues through the swing with much greater extension.


Can someone explain to me why greater extension leads to greater impact at contact?

I've been experimenting with this in my swing, and it appears to be true, I'm just wondering why it works.

Does greater extension necessarily mean greater acceleration earlier in the swing (as in at the point of contact)?

[Jake Patterson]

Lau Jr writes:

[B]The scientific reasoning behind lead-arm extension is that the length of a lever determines the amount of leverage you can achieve. In the baseball swing, your front arm is the longer lever and will therefore provide more leverage and power.

I am not certain I agree or maybe I just don't understand Lau's statement. All you have to do to test this is take a bat turn and push against an object with extended -disconnected swing and then a more compact connected swing. I think he's confusing leverage with force.

[Jake Patterson]

I am not certain I agree or maybe I just don't understand Lau's statement. All you have to do to test this is take a bat turn and push against an object with extended -disconnected swing and then a more compact connected swing. I think he's confusing leverage with force.

I asked Walt Hriniak about this once. He answered with the typical linear explanations.

[AcidLake]

Without a doubt more hitters today in the major leagues are top hand release hitters than top hand dominant hitters.

Not every top hitters... we do see some two-handed hitters such as David Wright or Jim Thome, but it is true that a lot of top hitters frequently/always release their top hand. Frank Thomas is an extreme example. He looks like that he's hacking the @#$ out of the ball with his left arm. He's Hriniak disciple and did call for help from Hriniak even after he was fired. Other hitters who release their top hand include A-Rod (Lau Jr. was a part of his maturation progress), Carlos Lee, Placido Polanco, or Manny Ramirez (I saw his swing clip from his Cleveland days and it looked like that he released his top hand earlier than he does right now...)

I think the purpose of 'lead-arm extention' is to hit the ball squarely with flat hands (which is difficult with wrist roll) and extend through ball. I saw Lau's DVD and he was teaching a softball player and he told her to try to think about hitting the 2 invisible balls behind the ball on the tee; she has done it perfectly and she drove the ball to the deep center.

[JJA]

Charley wants the top hand to release once it can no longer stay with the bottom hand, which is a little after full extension, well after hitting the ball. Unfortunately, I'm having computer problems or I would put up a still of Pujols releasing about where Charley likes it. This isn't something that is forced. He just wants the bat to naturally extend, and then release the top hand when the top arm can no longer extend, because it is shorter than the bottom arm when it is on that side of the body (you're reaching across your body).

Why does it work? There has been a lot of speculation on this, and really whether it works at all. The way I think about it is based on an understanding that the swing can be thought of as a double pendulum, much like that described in the old Alastair Cochran golf book "Search for the Perfect Swing", Chapter 2. This subject goes ways beyond this post and can probably be found somewhere in Nyman's archives. Once one thinks of the swing as a double pendulum, extension is nothing but the natural trajectory a double pendulum takes. Instead of manipulating the bat head near impact by intentionally rolling the wrists or applying active fish hook, one simply allows the bat to take it's natural trajectory forward. Allowing the double pendulum to transfer its momentum in a natural way is why it is efficient, and is my notion as to why extension seems to work. Nyman has some other explanation but that requires one to buy the latest version of RTFN which I don't have. Charley is certainly no scientist, so I wouldn't put much if any credence into his explanations (I know Charley personally).

Finally, does it allow more acceleration earlier in the swing? No, I don't think so. However, by concentrating on extension, of producing a swing that promotes extension (which of course occurs well after the ball is gone), it produces an efficient swing trajectory. That's why I think it works in practice.

-JJA

[FiveFrameSwing]

Peavy is another advocate of bottom-hand dominance, flat-hands through the contact path, bottom-hand extension after contact, along with top-hand release. Peavy claims that bottom-hand extension & bottom-hand release allows the hand path to follow what he calls a "virtual pursuit curve", which is what he believes determines the total power directed into the ball.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Coach Preston Peavy sounds a lot like Charley Lau Jr.

In reading the literature on his website there were many statements that looked similar to what was written in Charley's book.

Has anyone use Peavy's "Step by Step to a Pro Swing Hitting Drills Video" that could comment on it?

http://www.peavynet.com/stepbystepsales.htm

[JackB1]

Is there really any proof that it's better to release or not release the top hand after contact? Since this move happens AFTER contact, it's only impact must be in how releasing or not releasing effects the actual swing before and at impact. Is it just a matter of personal preference? I have been experimenting with both and feel more comfortable releasing, but am trying to better "stay down" through contact and releasing may be causing me to straighten up my body after contact. Also, not releasing seems to better promote a circular hand path around the body and releasing may be causing more "disconnect" at contact since the lead arm is more prone to over extending.

For a "learning" hitter, it seems to be more beneficial to NOT release. Am I wrong?

[UGDodgersSS#13]

I reviewed the video again and here are some highlights...

1. the title is "drill sets designed to build a pro swing"
2. it is 27 min,33 sec long and is played on Microsoft Media Player when connected to the internet.
3. it is a very well-organized video, one of the best i have seen
4. the principles are "identical" to Lau, Jr. ,whose book explains and demonstrates the same basic principles well.
5. Peavy has some interesting training tools such as procut weights that are attached BELOW the knob and the hitting disc which is like a soft frisbee that he uses to promote flat hands thru the hitting zone.

The video does NOT discuss:
1. the relationship and timing of the hips, shoulders and hands.
2. weight distribution and shift.

IMO, if you want to become a Lau (he was the first to develop the fundamental principles) type hitter, then this is the best training video available.

Unfortunately, Lau, Jr.'s 3 part video is less organized, overly repetitive and has far less content than the Peavy video and even Lau's book (which i would definitely recommend).

Also i spoke to Preston Peavy a few weeks ago. He was very receptive and informative.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Is there really any proof that it's better to release or not release the top hand after contact? Since this move happens AFTER contact, it's only impact must be in how releasing or not releasing effects the actual swing before and at impact. Is it just a matter of personal preference? I have been experimenting with both and feel more comfortable releasing, but am trying to better "stay down" through contact and releasing may be causing me to straighten up my body after contact. Also, not releasing seems to better promote a circular hand path around the body and releasing may be causing more "disconnect" at contact since the lead arm is more prone to over extending.

For a "learning" hitter, it seems to be more beneficial to NOT release. Am I wrong?

I have been experimenting with both as well, and was able to drive the ball much further when performing the early top-hand release. However, the improvement in drive may not be a result of top-hand release. In performing the top-hand release I found myself convert from a top-arm dominant swing to more of a bottom-arm dominant swing.

Specifically I found that the particular action that was occuring was one in which the bottom-arm had a dominant pulling action for most of the swing with a late pushing action contribution from the top-hand.

Attached is a 'pdf' file in which I attempt to describe the push/pull action as demonstrated by Albert Pujols. Would appreciate hearing what others have to say on this.

[FiveFrameSwing]

I reviewed the video again and here are some highlights...

1. the title is "drill sets designed to build a pro swing"
2. it is 27 min,33 sec long and is played on Microsoft Media Player when connected to the internet.
3. it is a very well-organized video, one of the best i have seen
4. the principles are "identical" to Lau, Jr. ,whose book explains and demonstrates the same basic principles well.
5. Peavy has some interesting training tools such as procut weights that are attached BELOW the knob and the hitting disc which is like a soft frisbee that he uses to promote flat hands thru the hitting zone.

The video does NOT discuss:
1. the relationship and timing of the hips, shoulders and hands.
2. weight distribution and shift.

IMO, if you want to become a Lau (he was the first to develop the fundamental principles) type hitter, then this is the best training video available.

Unfortunately, Lau, Jr.'s 3 part video is less organized, overly repetitive and has far less content than the Peavy video and even Lau's book (which i would definitely recommend).

Also i spoke to Preston Peavy a few weeks ago. He was very receptive and informative.


Thank you for the insightful review of Peavy's video.

You mentioned that his video plays on Microsoft Media Player when connected to the Internet. Must the computer be connected to the Internet at the time one views this video? Is it possible to download the video to a laptop computer and view it later when the laptop is not connected to the Internet?

[tom.guerry]

5 frame -

What is important is to "stay connected" from launch (bathead launches out of arc of handpath as torso begins to uncoil/turn shoulders - shortly before traditional "lag position") to contact.

This requires maintaing the Circular Hand Path (CHP) to permit ball on string or more similarly, double or multiple type pendulum mechanics to transform rotational body momentum into batshead acceleration.

What is important is the "extension sequence" of the lead arm that prevents disconnection/deceleration.

The sequence after bathead launch is that the bottom wrist starts to unhinge, THEN unhinging can begin at the lead elbow (this may not happen before contact, but usually does the longer the swing radius/further out the location).

Max bathead speed in a well timed swing is at contact. The lead arm can not disconnect in the front shoulder before this. The front shoulder needs to continue to be turned right up until contact as it drives a double (lead arm/bat) or triple (lead arm/forearm/bat) pendulum connection to acceleration to max at contact.

A longer lead arm swing radius set at bathead lauch COULD be part of a higher max batspeed swing or it could just suck momentum out of the torso faster. That depends more onthe details of how you "torque" the handle and coil the torso.

[UGDodgersSS#13]

Thank you for the insightful review of Peavy's video.

You mentioned that his video plays on Microsoft Media Player when connected to the Internet. Must the computer be connected to the Internet at the time one views this video? Is it possible to download the video to a laptop computer and view it later when the laptop is not connected to the Internet?

I believe you must be connected to the internet to view his video. It is not "stored" on the computer. You are able to watch it because they know you paid for it.

Good luck.

[JJA]

JackB1,

Charley and other guys who teach his methods teach the top hand release to the youngest peewees, even 5 and 6 year olds. He really thinks it is an essential part of the high level swing, so he insists on it starting with the first lessons.

Is there proof it works? Like everything else in the swing, there is little to prove that anything works except if the best players use it and there is no doubt a ton of guys use top hand release. It's really become popular in the last 15 years for whatever reason. Does that prove anything? Not from a scientific viewpoint, but it is something that is interesting to note.

There is no reason that you can't stay down and still release the top hand. Charley is big on staying down through the ball. As for the circular hand path, well, that's a different method of swinging. Using fish hook at the end of the swing rather than extension is definitely a different way of swinging the bat. There are successful guys who use both methods. Done right, the lead arm shouldn't be overextending. You should be able to stay down and keep your lead arm from overextending if you do it right.

-JJA

[tom.guerry]

JJA -

Sounds like Charlie believes the little ones should swing with the same pattern as the big ones.

I would certainly agree with that.

[JJA]

Tom,

For once we are in complete agreement. Surprisingly, though, many coaches are very adamant that young hitters should be taught differently than older ones. My son and daughter both have a top hand release and EVERY coach they encounter tries to change it, saying it's OK for pros but not for kids.

-JJA

[jbooth]

Specifically I found that the particular action that was occuring was one in which the bottom-arm had a dominant pulling action for most of the swing with a late pushing action contribution from the top-hand.

Well, that should be true even in a swing where you don't release. The top hand gets involved late, regardless of your style.