Sportsman's Park

[tdinan]

Not sure if this has already been posted, but I came across a link to some amazing photos of Sportsman's Park in the early 60's. You don't really hear too much about this ballpark, certainly not as much as its contemporaries.

http://photosbybmw.com/Sport_Park_web_pages/index.html

[PeteU]

It's always interesting to see the old, long gone classical parks in color.

[Lpeters199]

Not sure if this has already been posted, but I came across a link to some amazing photos of Sportsman's Park in the early 60's. You don't really hear too much about this ballpark, certainly not as much as its contemporaries.

http://photosbybmw.com/Sport_Park_web_pages/index.html
That's a terrific series of pictures you discovered--thanks for posting them. Here's an aerial taken from the Goodyear "Blump".

[Chevy114]

It has a nice shape to it!

[tugger]

I've always felt some affinity for Sportsman's Park. Nothing flashy, no defining characteristic. Just a solid, midwest, utilitarian, no nonsense stadium. I think a farmboy would feel very comfortable here.

[cgcoyne2]

One of the coolest things I've ever seen in a ballpark is the way the upper deck grandstands end right at the foul poles. Very very cool look to it.

[PeteU]

One of the coolest things I've ever seen in a ballpark is the way the upper deck grandstands end right at the foul poles. Very very cool look to it.


I wonder why more parks never did that. It would seem like the perfect way to dispute any fair vs. foul disputed homerun arguments.

[soup]

very cool pics

[Smirkman]

I wonder why more parks never did that. It would seem like the perfect way to dispute any fair vs. foul disputed homerun arguments.

How? A fair ball can still land in or hit the upper deck.

[DallasGoon]

What do you mean? Like if it were to curve around behind the foul pole? Not trying to be a wisea$$, just wondering...

[Smirkman]

What do you mean? Like if it were to curve around behind the foul pole? Not trying to be a wisea$$, just wondering...


Exactly. Pretty much every ball hit in the air down the line either hooks or slices. Maybe if there was a wall at the end of the grandstand a fair ball would never enter the grandstand. I believe Busch Stadium was open at the ends of the grandstand.

[Pelt]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Chuck]

I grew up going to Cardinal games at Sportsman's/Busch I. You can't see it in these photos (taken by my good high school buddy, Bernard Waxman) but there was a 2 to 3 foot wide screen attached to the foul pole in fair territory from the wall to the roof of the upper deck. So, any drive that flew within 3 feet of the pole that ricocheted back onto the field either hit the pole or the screen and was therefore a homer making it easier for the ump to call it fair or fowl.

[Chuck]

Actually you can see this screen in the foreground in the third photo down, third from the left, taken from the upper deck right field corner, if you click on it and blow it up.

[stlfan]

Here are a few images of my recreation of Sportsman's park using Sketchup. I'm mainly using photos as my guide in the recreation. My next goal once it is done is to do a modern retrofit of the park as if it had lasted up until now with improvements over the years, etc.

[JRH11]

I've always felt some affinity for Sportsman's Park. Nothing flashy, no defining characteristic. Just a solid, midwest, utilitarian, no nonsense stadium. I think a farmboy would feel very comfortable here.

The one defining charactersitc was the screen that covered the right field pavilion. Any ball hit off the screen would bounce back into play. I read one time that if the screen had not been there, Stan Musial would have had another 75 homeruns.

That old ballyard is long gone. It's location is in a very blighted area of St. Louis. I never saw a game there, as it was torn down in 1966, three years before I was born. But, every time I drive past Grand and Dodier I get chills.

[Pelt]

Here are a few images of my recreation of Sportsman's park using Sketchup. I'm mainly using photos as my guide in the recreation. My next goal once it is done is to do a modern retrofit of the park as if it had lasted up until now with improvements over the years, etc.

Looking good. If you get the chance you should make a copy of this Sketchup file and then go into the copy and replace the baseball field with a football field.

[DiggerODell]

One of the coolest things I've ever seen in a ballpark is the way the upper deck grandstands end right at the foul poles. Very very cool look to it.

What a dandy of a ballyard! I love the simplicity of the grandstands. Can you imagine someone building a new park like this these days, or even thinking about it? No way Jose!

[bandit12]

Same location?

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&ie=UTF8&q=sportsman+park+st+louis&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=NND7ScncOsygmAfe8MGjBA&ll=38.657311,-90.219194&spn=0,359.998289&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=38.657426,-90.219124&panoid=almPLKznXQOrLQR8-ky3Qg&cbp=12,232.62337727840932,,0,2.4608150470219425

or here?

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&ie=UTF8&q=sportsman+park+st+louis&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=NND7ScncOsygmAfe8MGjBA&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.65826,-90.218576&panoid=43YesOIg5Bxr2IYhiGjFTA&cbp=12,234.38087774294658,,0,-1.5595611285266466&ll=38.658219,-90.218485&spn=0,359.996578&z=19

http://photosbybmw.com/Sport_Park_web_pages/images/Sport_park5.jpg

[64Cards]

Not sure if this has already been posted, but I came across a link to some amazing photos of Sportsman's Park in the early 60's. You don't really hear too much about this ballpark, certainly not as much as its contemporaries.

http://photosbybmw.com/Sport_Park_web_pages/index.html
Thanks for posting the Waxman photos, great stuff! I'd seen some of them before, hadn't looked at them in a while. I probably got to see about 25 games at Sportsmans/Busch from 1962-1966. First game I saw Musial hit a hr to beat the Cubs. Last game was on a Friday nite against SF, final series played at the park. I was just checking the attendance figures for that final weekend. Only 14K for the game I was at, even with the Giants in town and a great pitching matchup [Gibson vs. Perry] Saturday's game had 15K and the final on Sunday only had 17K.

I loved the place and while I was impressed with the newness and amenities of the downtown ballpark, soon found myself missing the old place.

[Greg B.]

http://photosbybmw.com/Sport_Park_web_pages/images/Sport_park5.jpg

I like this photo best of all, and wish there was a version of it in original form without the effects.

Sportsman's looks like it was in the middle of an established neighborhood. What kind of area is/was it?

[64Cards]

I like this photo best of all, and wish there was a version of it in original form without the effects.

Sportsman's looks like it was in the middle of an established neighborhood. What kind of area is/was it?

The street in that shot is Grand Avenue, which runs north to south through the center of the city. Just a bit south of the ballpark on Grand is where a lot of the old great movie houses and theaters were located, very close to St. Louis University. At the time also a lot of good dining. The Fox is the only theatre that survived, it's an excellent concert venue. The neighborhood surrounding the ballpark at one time was middle class homes and apartments. There was a large factory, Carter Carburetor, that was adjacent to the park and employed a lot of the folks in the area. The area was probably in it's hey day during the 40's through the mid 50's, when a lot of people began moving out to the new subdivisions being built in the suburbs outside the city limits. By the time the ballpark closed in 1966 the neighborhood had changed, pretty similar to what was happening in many of the cities in the northeast and midwest. The area around the Fox has made a bit of comeback, the area where the park was located is terrible, about as run down as you can get.

[bandit12]

The street in that shot is Grand Avenue, which runs north to south through the center of the city. Just a bit south of the ballpark on Grand is where a lot of the old great movie houses and theaters were located, very close to St. Louis University. At the time also a lot of good dining. The Fox is the only theatre that survived, it's an excellent concert venue. The neighborhood surrounding the ballpark at one time was middle class homes and apartments. There was a large factory, Carter Carburetor, that was adjacent to the park and employed a lot of the folks in the area. The area was probably in it's hey day during the 40's through the mid 50's, when a lot of people began moving out to the new subdivisions being built in the suburbs outside the city limits. By the time the ballpark closed in 1966 the neighborhood had changed, pretty similar to what was happening in many of the cities in the northeast and midwest. The area around the Fox has made a bit of comeback, the area where the park was located is terrible, about as run down as you can get.

Thanks for the info. I see the Carter building is still there and I can see what you mean by the area being run down. A quick trip up and down google street view tells the tale.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&ie=UTF8&q=sportsman+park+st+louis&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=NND7ScncOsygmAfe8MGjBA&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.657243,-90.221191&panoid=XLFxy64ALt_RY63rg3Cihg&cbp=12,215.78813054628398,,0,-18.699059561128525&ll=38.657197,-90.221092&spn=0,359.996578&z=19

[Greg B.]

Thanks for the info. I see the Carter building is still there and I can see what you mean by the area being run down. A quick trip up and down google street view tells the tale.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&ie=UTF8&q=sportsman+park+st+louis&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=NND7ScncOsygmAfe8MGjBA&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.657243,-90.221191&panoid=XLFxy64ALt_RY63rg3Cihg&cbp=12,215.78813054628398,,0,-18.699059561128525&ll=38.657197,-90.221092&spn=0,359.996578&z=19

That is a very interesting trip. While I guess you could say it is run down, what I find more interesting is just how barren it is in spots. Lots of buildings are no more and there are just a whole bunch of vacant lots, grassed over fields, or newer structures set well back from the street. It looks like a low-rent suburbia in some areas. It is remarkably different from the community that was seen in that photo.

[tdinan]

That is a very interesting trip. While I guess you could say it is run down, what I find more interesting is just how barren it is in spots. Lots of buildings are no more and there are just a whole bunch of vacant lots, grassed over fields, or newer structures set well back from the street. It looks like a low-rent suburbia in some areas. It is remarkably different from the community that was seen in that photo.

To illustrate your point...here's a pretty telling comparsion, courtesy of Historicaerials.com.

[Pelt]

That's pretty damn cool!

[JRH11]

The next time I'm down that way, I'll get a photo of that exact spot. I'd say that photo was taken around 1960......Let's say 50 years ago. It looks a lot different today.

[JRH11]

FYI..................43 years ago today, May 8, 1966, the last game was played at Sportsman's Park. :cry:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN196605080.shtml


Mays hit the last homerun.

[ribant]

FYI..................43 years ago today, May 8, 1966, the last game was played at Sportsman's Park. :cry:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN196605080.shtml


Mays hit the last homerun.

Tito Fuentes went 5-5

[thechefs2003]

Same location?

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&ie=UTF8&q=sportsman+park+st+louis&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=NND7ScncOsygmAfe8MGjBA&ll=38.657311,-90.219194&spn=0,359.998289&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=38.657426,-90.219124&panoid=almPLKznXQOrLQR8-ky3Qg&cbp=12,232.62337727840932,,0,2.4608150470219425

or here?

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&ie=UTF8&q=sportsman+park+st+louis&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=NND7ScncOsygmAfe8MGjBA&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.65826,-90.218576&panoid=43YesOIg5Bxr2IYhiGjFTA&cbp=12,234.38087774294658,,0,-1.5595611285266466&ll=38.658219,-90.218485&spn=0,359.996578&z=19

http://photosbybmw.com/Sport_Park_web_pages/images/Sport_park5.jpg

This location....

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/thechefs2003/Picture1.png

[SteveJRogers]

The street in that shot is Grand Avenue, which runs north to south through the center of the city. Just a bit south of the ballpark on Grand is where a lot of the old great movie houses and theaters were located, very close to St. Louis University. At the time also a lot of good dining. The Fox is the only theatre that survived, it's an excellent concert venue. The neighborhood surrounding the ballpark at one time was middle class homes and apartments. There was a large factory, Carter Carburetor, that was adjacent to the park and employed a lot of the folks in the area. The area was probably in it's hey day during the 40's through the mid 50's, when a lot of people began moving out to the new subdivisions being built in the suburbs outside the city limits. By the time the ballpark closed in 1966 the neighborhood had changed, pretty similar to what was happening in many of the cities in the northeast and midwest. The area around the Fox has made a bit of comeback, the area where the park was located is terrible, about as run down as you can get.

How bustling was down town Saint Louie when Busch II opened for business compared to today? I went, ehem, Google Map Walking, and it does seem to be a nice major metropolis today.

I'd imagine the area around Busch II and Busch III is what the Wilpons hope will happen once the redevelopment of the Iron Triangle happens.

[Bobby_Ayala]

What a dandy of a ballyard! I love the simplicity of the grandstands. Can you imagine someone building a new park like this these days, or even thinking about it? No way Jose!Good call, just look at the current Busch Stadium, the polar opposite of Sportsman's.

[87Twins91]

Love the pics of old Sportsmans. The huge Bud scoreboard was really cool and the Busch ad to the left of it with the winter scenes was probably refreshing to look at on those hot and humid St Louis afternoons.

If I could go back in time, the two ballparks I'd want to visit most would be Ebbets and Sportsmans.

[SultanOfWhat]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/SgnppNl1UHI/AAAAAAAAF4M/MOJVPqSgbKQ/s800/March%201948%20Bob%20Dillinger%203B%20Stl.%20Brown s.jpg
March 1948 --- Bob Dillinger, St. Louis Browns third baseman, noted for base stealing antics.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/Sgnppkb-JzI/AAAAAAAAF4Q/9sb6xrCDR6A/s800/1952.jpg
1952, St. Louis, Missouri, USA --- St. Louis Browns General Manager Bill Veeck [Didn't realize he was a Marine who lost a leg at Bouganville.]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/SgouPdinMDI/AAAAAAAAF6Y/rA9ubXDcJO8/s800/April%2018%2C%201945%20Pete%20Gray%202-1.jpg
4/18/1945- Peter Gray, the one-armed baseball player for the St. Louis Browns at bat.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/graype01.shtml?redir



http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/Sgoqdg3u2OI/AAAAAAAAF50/7_8F10K9xN4/s800/August%2018%2C%201951.jpg
18 Aug 1951 --- Creative baseball promoter and St. Louis Browns owner, Bill Veek hires dwarf Eddie Gaedel to bat for his team in a game against the Detroit Tigers.

Wiki:

Eddie Gaedel was under strict orders not to attempt to move the bat off his shoulder. When Gaedel had hinted to Veeck that he might be tempted to swing at a pitch, the owner promised to bring a rifle to the game and shoot him if he tried. Tigers catcher Bob Swift offered his pitcher a piece of strategy: "Keep it low."
With Bob Cain on the mound - laughing at the absurdity that he actually had to pitch to Gaedel - and Swift catching on his knees, Gaedel crouched with bat in hand. Cain delivered four consecutive balls, all high. Gaedel took his base (stopping twice during his trot to bow to the crowd) and was replaced by pinch-runner Jim Delsing. The 18,369 fans gave Gaedel a standing ovation.

[EdTarbusz]

[1952, St. Louis, Missouri, USA --- St. Louis Browns General Manager Bill Veeck[Didn't realize he was a Marine who lost a leg at Guadalcanal.]

.

Veeck was the Browns owner at the time. Veeck's leg was injured by artillery recoil at Bouganville, and amputated after he returned to the states.

[SultanOfWhat]

Veeck was the Browns owner at the time. Veeck's leg was injured by artillery recoil at Bouganville, and amputated after he returned to the states.

Thanks. I read both Bouganville and Guadalcanal. I'll change it. I'll leave the Corbis captions as they are, though (re: GM, owner). They do screw up pretty often.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/Sgk4eVDz9fI/AAAAAAAAF24/edhZmxYDrJw/s800/10-7-46%20WS%20shift%20Williams.jpg

07 Oct 1946, St. Louis, Missouri, USA --- 10/7/1946-St. Louis, MO: Although not employing the famed Cleveland shift, the entire Cardinal defense with the exception of the shortstop and left fielder veered sharply towards the right when Ted Williams, Red Sox slugger, came to bat for the first time in the World Series opener at Sportsman's park. Howie Pollet, Cardinal southpaw, is shown here preparing to toss one up to Williams. The Red Sox won in the 10th inning, 3-2, on Rudy York's homer.

[64Cards]

How bustling was down town Saint Louie when Busch II opened for business compared to today? I went, ehem, Google Map Walking, and it does seem to be a nice major metropolis today.

I'd imagine the area around Busch II and Busch III is what the Wilpons hope will happen once the redevelopment of the Iron Triangle happens.

Actually, St. Louis had a rather busy downtown area, that was located several blocks north of where the stadium was located. At the time, it was the area's premier commercial and shopping area. The area where the ballpark was constructed was rather was mostly some old warehouses, flophouses and vacant buildings. Downtown Busch, which opened about the same time as the completion of the Arch, did bring in a lot of economic development and new construction over the years, plus tourism. While the area around the ballpark has stayed pretty nice, the old downtown business and shopping areas have considerably shrunk. Many of the businesses have moved out of the city of STL to the county or even out of the region and no one goes down there to shop. The city of STL has a government that has been basically ruled by one party virtually forever, with a bureaucracy and a high tax base that doesn't encourage commerce.

[stlfan]

Actually, St. Louis had a rather busy downtown area, that was located several blocks north of where the stadium was located. At the time, it was the area's premier commercial and shopping area. The area where the ballpark was constructed was rather was mostly some old warehouses, flophouses and vacant buildings. Downtown Busch, which opened about the same time as the completion of the Arch, did bring in a lot of economic development and new construction over the years, plus tourism. While the area around the ballpark has stayed pretty nice, the old downtown business and shopping areas have considerably shrunk. Many of the businesses have moved out of the city of STL to the county or even out of the region and no one goes down there to shop. The city of STL has a government that has been basically ruled by one party virtually forever, with a bureaucracy and a high tax base that doesn't encourage commerce.

Not to mention the fact of the city/county division. Because of that the region is always battling each other. If they would just wise up and extend St. Louis County to include the City of St. Louis, things would be much better.

[JRH11]

Not to mention the fact of the city/county division. Because of that the region is always battling each other. If they would just wise up and extend St. Louis County to include the City of St. Louis, things would be much better.


You both hit the nail on the head. The city of St. Louis is an absolutely archaic way of running a community. The city earnings tax is the #1 reason businesses flee the city limits. It's been that way for years and years.

[64Cards]

Not to mention the fact of the city/county division. Because of that the region is always battling each other. If they would just wise up and extend St. Louis County to include the City of St. Louis, things would be much better.
Umm, no thank you. As a county resident, I can't see one possible benefit. We pay high enough taxes without having to take care of more deadbeats who exhaust the use of government services. The city schools are a joke, the police force is corrupt and if they merged with the county we would then have essentially one party rule of this new government, where things are pretty much split 50/50 right now in the county. Also remember, over 100 years ago the City drew their boundaries and told the areas outside to form their own governments. That's why there is a separation between the City and County of St. Louis.

[64Cards]

Love the pics of old Sportsmans. The huge Bud scoreboard was really cool and the Busch ad to the left of it with the winter scenes was probably refreshing to look at on those hot and humid St Louis afternoons.

If I could go back in time, the two ballparks I'd want to visit most would be Ebbets and Sportsmans.

They changed the Busch billboard, depending on what ad campaign they were using for the season. I can remember when they had Harry Caray's mug on it, with a glass or bottle of Busch Bavarian in his hand. Everybody associates Harry with Bud, from his years on WGN when Bud sponsored the telecasts and he did the Cub fan/Bud man bit, but for most of his years in St. Louis, at least after AB bought the team in 1953, he was peddling Busch on the broadcasts. They had the huge Bud sign over the scoreboard and mentioned Bud at the intro to the broadcasts, but the commercials and numerous ad lib mentions during the broadcast were about Busch.

No one could sell beer better.

[SultanOfWhat]

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/SiNFb4GlfkI/AAAAAAAAGzk/dYXVyloGLNA/s800/October%207%2C%201964%20gm%201.jpg
07 Oct 1964, St. Louis, Missouri, USA --- 10/7/1964-St. Louis, MO: Lou Brock of the Cardinals scores the first run of the World Series opener, without a play on him in the first inning. He raced in from third base on Ken Boyer's fly to Mickey Mantle in right field. Yanks' catcher is Elston Howard.

[majorleads]

Thanks. I read both Bouganville and Guadalcanal. I'll change it. I'll leave the Corbis captions as they are, though (re: GM, owner). They do screw up pretty often.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/Sgk4eVDz9fI/AAAAAAAAF24/edhZmxYDrJw/s800/10-7-46%20WS%20shift%20Williams.jpg

07 Oct 1946, St. Louis, Missouri, USA --- 10/7/1946-St. Louis, MO: Although not employing the famed Cleveland shift, the entire Cardinal defense with the exception of the shortstop and left fielder veered sharply towards the right when Ted Williams, Red Sox slugger, came to bat for the first time in the World Series opener at Sportsman's park. Howie Pollet, Cardinal southpaw, is shown here preparing to toss one up to Williams. The Red Sox won in the 10th inning, 3-2, on Rudy York's homer.


Funny seeing this because I had never heard of Howie Pollet until yesterday during the Mets game. Ralph Kiner was sitting in on the TV broadcast and Gary Cohen asked him who he hit his first HR against and he said Howie Pollet. I said to myself that he must have been a stiff cause I'd never heard of him. Well I just checked his stats and he actually won 21 games that season, finished 4th in MVP voting.

[YankeeFanBx]

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Q_Zerpnj63I/SiNFb4GlfkI/AAAAAAAAGzk/dYXVyloGLNA/s800/October%207%2C%201964%20gm%201.jpg
07 Oct 1964, St. Louis, Missouri, USA --- 10/7/1964-St. Louis, MO: Lou Brock of the Cardinals scores the first run of the World Series opener, without a play on him in the first inning. He raced in from third base on Ken Boyer's fly to Mickey Mantle in right field. Yanks' catcher is Elston Howard.
This is the first WS I ever watched, brings back many memories.

[ericlc129]

Tito Fuentes went 5-5

Tito Fuente? He was a helluva band leader too! :rolleyes:

[SteveJRogers]

Sportsman Park now home to youth field (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090711&content_id=5820786&vkey=allstar2009&fext=.jsp)