The People Have Spoken....

[TonyStarks]

NEW YORK (AP) -- The ball Barry Bonds hit for his record-breaking 756th home run will be branded with an asterisk and sent to the Baseball Hall of Fame, its owner said Wednesday.

Fashion designer Marc Ecko, who bought the ball in an online auction, set up a Web site for fans to vote on the ball's fate, and the decision to brand it won out over the other options, sending it to the museum unblemished or launching it into space.

"We're going to be working with the folks at the Hall of Fame," Ecko said on NBC's "Today" show.

Ecko, whom Bonds called "an idiot" last week, had the winning bid Sept. 15 in the online auction for the ball that Bonds hit Aug. 7 to break Hank Aaron's record of 755 home runs. The final selling price was $752,467, well above most predictions that assumed Bonds' status as a lightning rod for the steroids debate in baseball would depress the value.

The asterisk suggests that Bonds' record is tainted by alleged steroid use. The slugger has denied knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs. Fans brought signs with asterisks on them to ballparks as he neared Aaron's hallowed mark.

Hall of Fame president Dale Petroskey, also interviewed on the show, said accepting the ball did not mean the Hall endorses the viewpoint that Barry Bonds used drugs.

"We're happy to get it," he said. "We're a nonprofit history museum, so this ball wouldn't be coming to Cooperstown without Marc Ecko buying it from the fan who caught it."

The Giants announced Friday they will part with Bonds after this season, the seven-time NL MVP's 15th in San Francisco and 22nd in the majors.

[Cajun Yankee]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070926/capt.6d4dbda015124ef4b067f1e8aa0843cd.bonds_756_ba ll_baseball_ny159.jpg *

http://www.sadkids.com/images/oak_asterisk_72dpi.jpg
I guess it won't be missing now. :D

[ESPNFan]

They Just had a representative from The Hall of Fame on Mike & Mike's ESPN Radio show. Jeff Idelson said that they would gladly accept the ball and display it with the asterisk on it. He said it was not only a historic ball but also it reflects the feelings of the American baseball fans on a contentious subject.

:clapping

[Zagi-CRO]

Ecko, whom Bonds called "an idiot" last week....

:laugh :laugh
Bonds is the legend!!

[KCGHOST]

I guess I understand the HoF's position, but personally I would have refused to accept it had I been them.

[TonyStarks]

I guess I understand the HoF's position, but personally I would have refused to accept it had I been them.

I guess the term, "Beggars can't be choosers" applies here. :D

[Yankwood]

I guess I understand the HoF's position, but personally I would have refused to accept it had I been them.
Why? I guess I don't understand your stance.

[runningshoes]

I still say an outhouse would be a great place to house that ball.

[GiambiJuice]

I wonder if Bonds gets elected to the HOF in a few years and the ball is still sitting there whether he will refuse to show up for the ceremony.

[Mattingly]

I guess I understand the HoF's position, but personally I would have refused to accept it had I been them.
The ball which broke the most revered record in all of sports, you'd have refused? Trust me, had you been in charge, your subordinates would've had something to say about this.

One more reason to visit Coopertsown is all I'll say.

*756

[Knick9]

*

You can't escape the court of public opinion. I'm A-okay with the decision. In fact, I voted for the ball to be branded, numerous times.

[johnnypapa]

I guess I understand the HoF's position, but personally I would have refused to accept it had I been them.



Why? Because it's not your viewpoint? It's still an historical artifact but with an extra added attraction....the baseball fan's veiwpoint. How often do we get to have an opinion that counts for something besides the all star game? I would have liked to see a vote where you could only vote once but so be it.

[Mariano_Rivera]

This is what voted for so I`m happy

[bigtime39]

This is NOT what I voted for...but, whatever.
My only concern is that once the ball is "branded", I assume it's "branded" for the duration. I just don't see the point in defacing the ball itself. Maybe make a giant * display stand for the thing as a condition of the donation...

[SamtheBravesFan]

This is NOT what I voted for...but, whatever.
My only concern is that once the ball is "branded", I assume it's "branded" for the duration. I just don't see the point in defacing the ball itself. Maybe make a giant * display stand for the thing as a condition of the donation...

Same here. I didn't vote for it, either, but I guess I'm glad to be in a minority this time.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I guess I understand the HoF's position, but personally I would have refused to accept it had I been them.

I totally agree with you, the ball is history...it should be in it's unbranded state.

[BoofBonser26]

I totally agree with you, the ball is history...it should be in it's unbranded state.

So better no history than history you don't agree with?

[SamtheBravesFan]

So better no history than history you don't agree with?

I suppose. When the ball is displayed, I'll just say I don't agree with what was done with it.

[Dalkowski110]

Well, think of this...unless he branded six or seven asterisks on every side of the ball, the Hall of Fame could merely have the asterisk facing against the back or bottom of the display. I voted FOR the asterisk, but I figure they'll do what I've just mentioned.

[fenrir]

i didn't vote cause i don't care about the ball. asterisk or not, nobody but bonds and his loyal fans give a rats about that ball.

[rdonahue]

NEW YORK (AP) -- The ball Barry Bonds hit for his record-breaking 756th home run will be branded with an asterisk and sent to the Baseball Hall of Fame, its owner said Wednesday.



Yet another reason why average people shouldn't vote on most matters...

[Seattle1]

NEW YORK (AP) -- The ball Barry Bonds hit for his record-breaking 756th home run will be branded with an asterisk and sent to the Baseball Hall of Fame, its owner said Wednesday.

That is awesome. Thank goodness for Mark Ecko, what a hero!

:clapping

[KCGHOST]

Why? I guess I don't understand your stance.

I would not accept an object that has been deliberately disfigured to express contempt for the person the object should be honoring. IMHO, most of the people voting to asterisk the ball did so, not out of any strong feeling on the steroids issue, but instead to express their displeasure toward a person they consider an a**hole.

[RubeBaker]

I agree with the hall here. I said from the begininng, branding it would symbolize the whole public viewpoint of this chase and the thoughts and the emotions that went with it.

As for the hall, why would they want to refuse the branded ball? People on both sides of the issue are going to come to see this thing.

[johnnypapa]

Yet another reason why average people shouldn't vote on most matters...


Average people? So the 'average' person should just shut up and buy the ticket? Who are the 'above average' people that will get to decide what's good for us?

[Knick9]

Yet another reason why average people shouldn't vote on most matters...

You are wrong on so many levels, it isn't funny.

I won't be quiet and pretend nothing wrong is happening, FYI.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Here's a trendy idea: find Jackie Robinson's rookie uniform and draw a Swastika on it. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

This fashion designer is a moron and he is wrong to deface an historic artifact that is bound for a museum. Period.

He's got his 15 minutes of fame and he's got his money to buy things, but it is still wrong.

Go buy the Mona Lisa and paint a mustache on her and donate it to the Louvre. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

[SamtheBravesFan]

Here's a trendy idea: find Jackie Robinson's rookie uniform and draw a Swastika on it. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

This fashion designer is a moron and he is wrong to deface an historic artifact that is bound for a museum. Period.

He's got his 15 minutes of fame and he's got his money to buy things, but it is still wrong.

Go buy the Mona Lisa and paint a mustache on her and donate it to the Louvre. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

Not exactly the most convincing argument ever, but on principle, I believe you're right. However, there are millions and millions of votes (apparently) that say the ball should be defaced because it's not the "real" record ball. That's the way it's going to be.

[ESPNFan]

Here's a trendy idea: find Jackie Robinson's rookie uniform and draw a Swastika on it. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

This fashion designer is a moron and he is wrong to deface an historic artifact that is bound for a museum. Period.

He's got his 15 minutes of fame and he's got his money to buy things, but it is still wrong.

Go buy the Mona Lisa and paint a mustache on her and donate it to the Louvre. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

Not even a remotely close comparison. The ball has an asterisk on it because it was the way the general public felt about an accomplishment that many feel was accomplished illegitimately because cheating is wrong.

People putting a swastika on Jackie Robisnons uniform is born solely from a hate that is neither right nor a product of a choice made by the player.

The Mona Lisa example is nonsensical.

And he doesn't need 15 minutes of fame. IMO he used 750K to not only brilliantly market his brand but gain the thanks of the majority of Baseball fans for giving them a voice.

[Imapotato]

People are sheep and this proves it.

A drug can make you the all time HR king...well then Alex Rodriguez must be on it.

He never failed a drug test

The government, who when they want to take you down, does so 99% of the time...can't with Bonds

All the evidence is circumstantial

He played in an era when HRs were at an all time high per game, with the weakest talent level it has ever had...I mean 50% of the players in baseball are from ONE island in the Caribbean! Plus more sports and hobbies +unhealthiest kids in our nations history who can't play sports because they are obese by age 7 that take away from the talent pool

This whole stunt with the asterisk is childish

[hudsonharden]

My biggest gripe with this is that they chose to use the 5-sided * asterisk instead of the 6-sided * asterisk. I feel that the 6-sided gives more emphasis to the suspicion of performance enhancing drug use and better displays his unpopularity outside of the Bay Area. With the 5-sided, future generations are more likely to empathize with Bonds and forgive him for his transgressions.

[SamtheBravesFan]

He never failed a drug test


Well, there was that amphetemines thing.

[SamtheBravesFan]

My biggest gripe with this is that they chose to use the 5-sided * asterisk instead of the 6-sided * asterisk. I feel that the 6-sided gives more emphasis to the suspicion of performance enhancing drug use and better displays his unpopularity outside of the Bay Area. With the 5-sided, future generations are more likely to empathize with Bonds and forgive him for his transgressions.

That was good for a laugh. :laugh

[hudsonharden]

Imapotato... you are right about people being sheep. I don't think that this branding the ball is so much a referendum on how the public feels about Bonds, it shows how eager people are to feel like they have a say in what goes on. Shows you why American Idol is so popular. I bet that half the people who voted on the fate of this ball can't name 5 other players on the Giants.

[Ordep]

I think he intended to mark the ball from the very start. Putting a decision up to the fans I think was a cheap way for him to justify doing so without catching a ton of flack. Now when people spit fire at him, he can lay the blame elsewhere. That is my honest opinion though.

At the end of the day this is nothing more than a marketing ploy, one that cost $752,467 instead of millions of dollars.

[NYMets523]

I voted for the ball to go in unbranded. I personally think Mark Ecko is an ***hole for doing this. He just wants his 5 min. of fame.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I voted for the ball to go in unbranded. I personally think Mark Ecko is an ***hole for doing this. He just wants his 5 min. of fame.

Well, more fame.

[Yankwood]

I would not accept an object that has been deliberately disfigured to express contempt for the person the object should be honoring. IMHO, most of the people voting to asterisk the ball did so, not out of any strong feeling on the steroids issue, but instead to express their displeasure toward a person they consider an a**hole.I think that although he is an easy person to dislike, it would have been easier to accept him as the record holder if his body hadn't been, as you say, "deliberately disfigured".
Bring on the asterisk. We shouldn't have to accept this. It's rubbish.

[BoofBonser26]

People are sheep and this proves it.

A drug can make you the all time HR king...well then Alex Rodriguez must be on it.
And Bonds Aaron and Ruth and Conner and Stovey, right?

[Seattle1]

Here's a trendy idea: find Jackie Robinson's rookie uniform and draw a Swastika on it. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

This fashion designer is a moron and he is wrong to deface an historic artifact that is bound for a museum. Period.

He's got his 15 minutes of fame and he's got his money to buy things, but it is still wrong.

Go buy the Mona Lisa and paint a mustache on her and donate it to the Louvre. Wouldn't that be KEWL?


I don't follow your analogies. Robinson didn't do anything untoward to artificially advance his career. Da Vinci didn't take take any illegal substances to inflate his artistic abilities. Why vandalize their things?

Branding the ball with an asterisk is a good way to permanently undermine the validity of Bonds's "record." He deserves it. He'll go to his grave knowing that ball has a permanent asterisk on it.

[Mattingly]

My biggest gripe with this is that they chose to use the 5-sided * asterisk instead of the 6-sided * asterisk. I feel that the 6-sided gives more emphasis to the suspicion of performance enhancing drug use and better displays his unpopularity outside of the Bay Area. With the 5-sided, future generations are more likely to empathize with Bonds and forgive him for his transgressions.
Except that your 6-sided *asterisk* looks like a snowflake.

I see that by changing to an "Arial" font, the number of sides of the asterisk changes. Interesting.

[west coast orange and black]

the hall will not be receiving the ball that bonds hit as #756.
the hall will be receiving a ball that will be deliberately marred.

ecko believes that a vote by the general public represents what baseball fans want. he is sadly mistaken.

baseball fans go to cooperstown, not the general public.
i think that bonds has this one correct: ecko is an idiot.

[Mattingly]

Not even a remotely close comparison. The ball has an asterisk on it because it was the way the general public felt about an accomplishment that many feel was accomplished illegitimately because cheating is wrong.

People putting a swastika on Jackie Robisnons uniform is born solely from a hate that is neither right nor a product of a choice made by the player.

The Mona Lisa example is nonsensical.

And he doesn't need 15 minutes of fame. IMO he used 750K to not only brilliantly market his brand but gain the thanks of the majority of Baseball fans for giving them a voice.
I couldn't have said this better myself. Neither Jackie nor Koufax deserve any of that nonsense. That thing is a form of pure hatred that recently affected a few Brooklyn Heights Synagogues in NYC (area of Brooklyn closest to Manhattan, next to the world's famous Brooklyn Bridge).

Anyway, while I certainly couldn't afford this, had I won the Mega, I wouldn't have minded doing this. The designer took the people's votes, so whatever the public decided, that's what would happen. I'm just glad that it wasn't sent into outer space.

I have no idea why Barry considers this guy an "idiot". He was already a 1st Ballot HoFer with 500 jacks and 400 thefts. He decided to get greedy and seemingly overnight, transformed himself into "Super Barry". I can't see someone doing this so quickly and so overpoweringly w/o any use of artifical helpers. Therefore, if anyone is the "idiot", I wouldn't say it's the designer, is all I'll say for now.

As to the world famous Mona Lisa, the woman with the most amazing and interesting smile, I can't for the life of me see how a single ball would be worth this. No way you get the Mona Lisa for 3/4 of a million. Nobody in their right mind would ever consider defacing such a legendary & treasured piece of artwork.

[west coast orange and black]

mattingly: I have no idea why Barry considers this guy an "idiot".

this is an easy one. ecko plans to deliberately deface the ball.

would you think that ecko is an idiot if he decided - simply because of the size of his wallet - that he would bury the ball 1,000' underground, encased in concrete, never to surface?

to have the space ride as an option makes ecko an idiot.

[Westlake]

So better no history than history you don't agree with?

How is branding a formally unbranded ball 'history'?

I personally wish the hall would have just laughed in Ecko's face and not accepted it. Oh well, I guess i'm in the minority, and the hall should do what the people want. :(

I don't think Ecko is an idiot. He's using a piece of baseball history to promote himself, and that's smart business wise I suppose. A jerk, maybe.

[west coast orange and black]

mattingly: I have no idea why Barry considers this guy an "idiot". He was already a 1st Ballot HoFer with 500 jacks and 400 thefts.

ecko being called an idiot by bonds is not about bonds. it is about ecko.
focus, two-three, focus.

[Mattingly]

mattingly: I have no idea why Barry considers this guy an "idiot".

this is an easy one. ecko plans to deliberately deface the ball.

would you think that ecko is an idiot if he decided - simply because of the size of his wallet - that he would bury the ball 1,000' underground, encased in concrete, never to surface?

to have the space ride as an option makes ecko an idiot.
So long as Barry is very strongly accused of cheating, then I have no problem with the ball's being defaced. If Barry can't handle that ball being defaced, I have no problem with that. He should've thought a bit more carefully about whether he was so willing to get the single-season & career HR records, and whether he was going to go about doing things using respected methods and non-respected methods, with PEDs being the not respected methods.

I'd say that the concrete thing 1,000 underground would be impossible. Who's going to dig 100 stories underground to bury a ball. I was passing by the Federal Reserve on Liberty St in lower Manhattan. They've got some vault buried 5 stories down. That's *FIVE* stories. Who would pay a drilling company to bury a ball *ONE HUNDRED* stories below sea level? You may as well just fling it into the Pacific Ocean and hope it never returns.

To me, it's like having a Ferrari, but suddenly, you're outracing everyone else in existence like you've got a rocket car instead. You think others aren't going to be suspicious? If people consider your records to be tainted, they'll express that. The "*" is the expression of just that.
mattingly: I have no idea why Barry considers this guy an "idiot". He was already a 1st Ballot HoFer with 500 jacks and 400 thefts.

ecko being called an idiot by bonds is not about bonds. it is about ecko.
focus, two-three, focus.
I think it's about Bonds. He shouldn't be one to call anyone an idiot. When you're one of the most celebrated players around, a 1st ballot HoFer, you don't do something as stupid as being affiliated with some BALCO Lab. You stay clear of any suspicions like that.

While not necessarily the most artful way of expressing himself, I think that the *asterisk* on the ball is very justified. Perhaps the "focus" should be on Barry's strongly alleged actions, and whether or not those are "dumb" or not. Look at what Ecko did, and look at what Barry Bonds did to his wonderful and glorious career. Some baseball historians are willing to bypass everything after his 2001 season, since they feel he's cheated. Who's the true "idiot" out there?

I'd say that the "focus" be on the big picture, not just how inartful Ecko was in his approach. In either case, I think he gets the average baseball fan's solution with the *asterisk*, which many fans feel is well-deserved. I don't find any idiocy in that at all.

[TonyStarks]

Generally speaking here....

I don't get why most people think that Ecko is putting on a PR Campaign here.
Anyone familiar with Fashion, Hip Hop or Grafitti are all familiar with Marc and his clothing brand.

The guy has sponsered Import Race Cars, he's got Video Game, and one of the biggest Urban Clothing lines out there. He's not looking for 15Mins....he is a well known fashion designer.

BTW, I think it was Dateline or ABC World News that recently had a big segment on him and his clothing line and the effect he's had in Hip Hop and Urban Clothing. That was about a month ago and that was before this whole branded ball thing started.

I think the guy is a just a baseball fan as we all are and could it be that he just feels Bonds doesn't merit the record as most of us do. He had the $750K to voice his opinion and he's excercising it.

Democracy...ain't it grand :D

[west coast orange and black]

I think it's about Bonds. He shouldn't be one to call anyone an idiot. When you're one of the most celebrated players around, a 1st ballot HoFer, you don't do something as stupid as being affiliated with some BALCO Lab. You stay clear of any suspicions like that.

for years now, you have made it about bonds at every turn, even when out of turn.
bonds is not a statesman. he is a ballplayer. why is he limited to what he can or can not say?

can it be that both bonds and ecko have been idiots?
bonds for, as you say, being accused. ecko for what he has actually done.

defacing in itself is wrong. surely you recognize that.

[SamtheBravesFan]

defacing in itself is wrong. surely you recognize that.

I don't think they do, because they get the impression that their voice is being heard; it's something they agree with.

[Yankwood]

Here's a trendy idea: find Jackie Robinson's rookie uniform and draw a Swastika on it. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

This fashion designer is a moron and he is wrong to deface an historic artifact that is bound for a museum. Period.

He's got his 15 minutes of fame and he's got his money to buy things, but it is still wrong.

Go buy the Mona Lisa and paint a mustache on her and donate it to the Louvre. Wouldn't that be KEWL?Why there's an accurate analogy.:rolleyes: And wha the he11 does KEWL mean? KEWL? You're serious?

[sturg1dj]

the internet vote is over and the fans voted to have an asterisk branded on it before sending it to the hall of fame


for me this seems sad, when I go to the Hall I don't want opinion, I want the items there and I want to make a decision for myself.

[Elvis]

Here's a trendy idea: find Jackie Robinson's rookie uniform and draw a Swastika on it. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

This fashion designer is a moron and he is wrong to deface an historic artifact that is bound for a museum. Period.

He's got his 15 minutes of fame and he's got his money to buy things, but it is still wrong.

Go buy the Mona Lisa and paint a mustache on her and donate it to the Louvre. Wouldn't that be KEWL?

Since when are uniforms and paintings hit into the crowd as souvenirs for people to keep and do what they want with? If Bonds wanted his ball to be safe from public wrath, he shouldn't have hit it into the "public" bleachers. He should've hit it into the section of all Giants employees, all Giants fans, or people that signed a pre-entrance agreement to relinquish the ball.

[Ordep]

Next up, Google offers Bonds millions of dollars to stamp it's logo on memorabilia he decides to donate to the hall. AT&T offers the same deal to Clemens. When I go to the baseball HoF I don't want to see gloves and so on decked out in ads like NASCAR vehicles. If the hall takes in the ball, it will only be a matter of time before the rest of the garbage will follow.

[johnnypapa]

Next up, Google offers Bonds millions of dollars to stamp it's logo on memorabilia he decides to donate to the hall. AT&T offers the same deal to Clemens. When I go to the baseball HoF I don't want to see gloves and so on decked out in ads like NASCAR vehicles. If the hall takes in the ball, it will only be a matter of time before the rest of the garbage will follow.




Branding the baseball with an * is not an advertisment...it is a statement. Like it or not this era of baseball is saddled with the issue of steroids. Enough so that even the casual fan suspects it. Big name players have been implicated and we have had a Congressional hearing on it. The HOF has a section devoted to women playing baseball during WW2 as well they should. The brand of baseball was far from major league level, indeed closer to softball but because of the circumstances the women's league was an important representation of baseball and society in that era. Well, guess what, steroids is and is going to be an important representation of baseball and society of this era. I'm sure if it was up to MLB they would want to sweep the whole thing away and have you think it never existed. Thankfully the HOF is a private organization.

[ChrisLDuncan]

So better no history than history you don't agree with?

I find it asinine and childish to brand it with an asterisk, and it being branded will only show people that go to the Hall what childish cry babies baseball fans are. I consider it an embarrassment. Who's to say that a guy like Brett Favre didn't use performance enhancers? I bet if you do some digging you would probably find that he may have done some illegal stuff along the way that allowed him to be the Ironman, and break some passing records...so is Canton going to brand his uniform? Doubtful because he's probably the most beloved athlete in America today. I get it Bonds is a tool, doesn't mean we still shouldn't show some respect.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I would not accept an object that has been deliberately disfigured to express contempt for the person the object should be honoring. IMHO, most of the people voting to asterisk the ball did so, not out of any strong feeling on the steroids issue, but instead to express their displeasure toward a person they consider an a**hole.

Exactly, it's just because Bonds is a jerk that nobody likes.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Average people? So the 'average' person should just shut up and buy the ticket? Who are the 'above average' people that will get to decide what's good for us?

People who are smarter than the average person...

[ChrisLDuncan]

Not even a remotely close comparison. The ball has an asterisk on it because it was the way the general public felt about an accomplishment that many feel was accomplished illegitimately because cheating is wrong.

People putting a swastika on Jackie Robisnons uniform is born solely from a hate that is neither right nor a product of a choice made by the player.


Dude, do you even know what you are talking about? Do you know what the general sentiment towards black people was during the time that Jackie Robinson was playing? They used to spray them with fire hoses, a swastika would actually accurately reflect the way people felt about blacks.

[ChrisLDuncan]

How is branding a formally unbranded ball 'history'?

I personally wish the hall would have just laughed in Ecko's face and not accepted it. Oh well, I guess i'm in the minority, and the hall should do what the people want. :(

I don't think Ecko is an idiot. He's using a piece of baseball history to promote himself, and that's smart business wise I suppose. A jerk, maybe.

I wish they'd have Nolan Ryan throw it back in his face ;) I want to hear what Joe Morgan, the VP of the Hall, has to say about this...I want to know why they are accepting this? I want an explanation from the hall on this one. I'd love to hear what stalwarts of honor of game that are enshrined like Gaylord Perry have to say about this. I think Sparky Anderson said it best about this one...

[Mattingly]

I think it's about Bonds. He shouldn't be one to call anyone an idiot. When you're one of the most celebrated players around, a 1st ballot HoFer, you don't do something as stupid as being affiliated with some BALCO Lab. You stay clear of any suspicions like that.

for years now, you have made it about bonds at every turn, even when out of turn.
bonds is not a statesman. he is a ballplayer. why is he limited to what he can or can not say?

can it be that both bonds and ecko have been idiots?
bonds for, as you say, being accused. ecko for what he has actually done.

defacing in itself is wrong. surely you recognize that.
I haven't made it "about Bonds" for years now. If it were "years", then you're talking about 3 years? 5? 10? I think I've only voiced my opinions most strongly about Bonds for about 2 years ago most, but who knows? Maybe some posts of mine against Bonds date back to 2004. In either case, my point is this:

Barry Bonds *MUST* be held accountable for his actions. If he is unable to account for his actions, then he's unworthy of respect. Mark McGwire ran away from "the past", and where did that get him? A 1-way ticket out of anyplace in St Louis, MO, that's what. I'd say that Barry Bonds is in a similar scenario.

Barry Bonds isn't limited to what he can or cannot say. So long as there's the 1st Amendment, he can say whatever he pleases. Then again, so can his critics, so the 1st Amendment works both ways. Do you wish to limit Bonds' critics? I certainly don't wish to limit yours.

If Barry thinks that someone is an "idiot", then some can also call him an "idiot" the same way. If Barry feels that his records aren't tainted, then there's a legion of people who feel otherwise. As mentioned, that "*" demonstrates just this.

As to whether one is an idiot in my mind, I've never said that Ecko is or was an idiot. He used his money to simply demonstrate what many baseball fans have long felt about Barry Bonds' 73-HR 2001 season and his 756th HR ball. He felt that it was tainted, so therefore, the public voted and they felt that it should be branded with an asterisk.

Were the American public voting also a bunch of idiots? Do you respect the voice of the people's right to an opinion?

In most cases, I would say that defacing would be wrong. If you're talking about memorabilia, such as cutting up a very rare game-worn jersey from Cy Young, Ruth or Cobb, or Jackie Robinson's earlier jerseys, then putting them on baseball cards, I'd say that blasphemous (spl). However, when people strongly feel that a record is tainted and some would say is downright fraudulent, then the "*" is appropriate to me in that case.

I'm not under the History forum here much, but I've seen a thread or two where forumers ignored Bonds' post-1998 seasons (or thereabouts, but it could be post-1999 or -2000), since they'd felt those weren't attained fairly. Why do you think this is so?

Therefore, I neither consider Ecko to be an idiot, nor do I find anything unacceptable about his tampering with the ball. Had Barry not been so strongly accused of tampering with his body in order to gain such monumental records, especially at his advanced age, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Then again, Barry would actually have to account for his actions sometime, which I don't expect to occur in his or my lifetime, even if we both live another 50 years.

[ESPNFan]

the internet vote is over and the fans voted to have an asterisk branded on it before sending it to the hall of fame


for me this seems sad, when I go to the Hall I don't want opinion, I want the items there and I want to make a decision for myself.

Well if you don't want opinion then you shouldn't be going to the hall.
Every player enshrined in there is based on the collective opinions of the voters.
That opinion thing might be a little hard to escape.

[ESPNFan]

mattingly: I have no idea why Barry considers this guy an "idiot".

this is an easy one. ecko plans to deliberately deface the ball.

would you think that ecko is an idiot if he decided - simply because of the size of his wallet - that he would bury the ball 1,000' underground, encased in concrete, never to surface?

to have the space ride as an option makes ecko an idiot.

Actually Bonds supporters should have thanked Echo for having the Space option on the ballot. It gave them a chance for the Anti Bonds factions to Perot the vote and let the ball slide into the hall unscathed. But fortunately there were enough people that saw the truth for what it was.

[johnnypapa]

People who are smarter than the average person...


Look where that has got us!:)

[johnnypapa]

Dude, do you even know what you are talking about? Do you know what the general sentiment towards black people was during the time that Jackie Robinson was playing? They used to spray them with fire hoses, a swastika would actually accurately reflect the way people felt about blacks.



I have edited my out my response because it was a reply to the subject about Bonds and steroids being a racial issue and not appropriate to this particular statement. I apologize for the confusion.

[ESPNFan]

Dude, do you even know what you are talking about? Do you know what the general sentiment towards black people was during the time that Jackie Robinson was playing? They used to spray them with fire hoses, a swastika would actually accurately reflect the way people felt about blacks.

Yes I know exactly what I am talking about. The Bonds Ball is not a public referendum on race or religion or sexual preference. It's the backlash from the fans of baseball who let their voices be heard in regards to using anabolic substances. Bonds was the most prominent suspected user, was unapologetic about his involvement with an illegal and banned substance(s) and only has himself to blame.

The racial atmosphere of the US in the late forties early fifties was far more contentious and vile than anything Barry Bonds has been accused of. People that would want to mar anything that Robinson owned or did with a swasztika would be from the lowest common human denominator. People full of racial intolerance, prejudice and malicious evil. If you could have asked do you think Pee Wee Reese or Hank Greenberg would think this was a fair comparison? They witness what Robinson when through on a daily basis and it makes the treatment Barry has received look like a mildly annoying visit to the DMV.

Simply put Bonds ball has an asterisk on it because people believe he chose to cheat. Robinson would be marked because peopel hated that he was a black man that was excellent at baseball.

Trying to compare these two different times and circumstances is not only a bad analogy but also in horrible taste.

[johnnypapa]

With the talk about Jackie Robinson I thought that the thread was heading to where the Bonds/steroids issue was going to digress to a racial issue. It might very well be. I would venture to guess that for a lot of people it is. So my response to that is whether it is or not I do believe that if you had the same kind of vote on an artifact of McGwire, Sosa, Rose and others with recent integrity issues you would get the same result.

[Old Sweater]

*756


*(hit more HR's then any other player on Earth)

[SamtheBravesFan]

*756


*(hit more HR's then any other player on Earth)

Except Sadaharu Oh, of course. :)

[hudsonharden]

Generally speaking here....

I don't get why most people think that Ecko is putting on a PR Campaign here.
Anyone familiar with Fashion, Hip Hop or Grafitti are all familiar with Marc and his clothing brand.

The guy has sponsered Import Race Cars, he's got Video Game, and one of the biggest Urban Clothing lines out there. He's not looking for 15Mins....he is a well known fashion designer.

BTW, I think it was Dateline or ABC World News that recently had a big segment on him and his clothing line and the effect he's had in Hip Hop and Urban Clothing. That was about a month ago and that was before this whole branded ball thing started.

I think the guy is a just a baseball fan as we all are and could it be that he just feels Bonds doesn't merit the record as most of us do. He had the $750K to voice his opinion and he's excercising it.

Democracy...ain't it grand :D
I completly agree. If you don't like what happened to Barry Bonds' home run ball, you should have ponied up the money and bought it to protect it. Blame this one on capitalism and the free market.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Yet another reason why average people shouldn't vote on most matters...Agreed. What percentage of those votes came from non-baseball fans? I cringe at the thought...

http://blogs.bootsnall.com/Leaott/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/sheep.jpg

[sturg1dj]

Average people? So the 'average' person should just shut up and buy the ticket? Who are the 'above average' people that will get to decide what's good for us?

uh oh...it looks like one of the "average people" just got mad


hehe, jk....or am I? no really I am.....hmmm...???

[SamtheBravesFan]

Agreed. What percentage of those votes came from non-baseball fans? I cringe at the thought...


I'd love to know that myself, but I don't think we will.

[AznInvasion]

Here's what I would do. Ask Barry for a mold of his head. Brand the ball with an asterisk and place into the mold. Then throw it into McCovey Cove.

[johnnypapa]

uh oh...it looks like one of the "average people" just got mad


hehe, jk....or am I? no really I am.....hmmm...???



lol....nah, I'm not mad. Proud to be one of the 'average'. But I'd still like to know who you think should be making these kind of decisions (or lack thereof). Bud Selig? The Owners? The Union? Seems like that's how we got into this mess in the first place by leaving it up to them.

[west coast orange and black]

johnnypapa: Branding the baseball with an * is not an advertisment...it is a statement. Like it or not this era of baseball is saddled with the issue of steroids. Enough so that even the casual fan suspects it.

agreed.
so, why then the need to mark the ball?

[johnnypapa]

Agreed. What percentage of those votes came from non-baseball fans? I cringe at the thought



What difference does it make...it's not a technical baseball issue. Non sports based news outlets were talking about it and aired portions of the Congressional hearings.

[rsuriyop]

I've got mixed feelings regarding this whole issue. For one thing, I really do think that Bonds is a cheat for taking PED's, and for that matter wouldn't really mind it so much if #756 was labeled w/ an asterisk. But why have it sent to Cooperstown to be displayed, the very place where player achievements should be honored, not condemned or be open to ridicule?

[johnnypapa]

johnnypapa: Branding the baseball with an * is not an advertisment...it is a statement. Like it or not this era of baseball is saddled with the issue of steroids. Enough so that even the casual fan suspects it.

agreed.
so, why then the need to mark the ball?


I guess to make a statement.....

[Yankwood]

johnnypapa: Branding the baseball with an * is not an advertisment...it is a statement. Like it or not this era of baseball is saddled with the issue of steroids. Enough so that even the casual fan suspects it.

agreed.
so, why then the need to mark the ball?So that the young fans, and those not yet born, will know that he holds a tainted record. And then they might read about him and find out that he's a liar and a cheat. We don't need our youth looking up to people like him. There are good role models out there.

[SamtheBravesFan]

So that the young fans, and those not yet born, will know that he holds a tainted record. And then they might read about him and find out that he's a liar and a cheat. We don't need our youth looking up to people like him. There are good role models out there.

But we don't need an asterisk on the ball to do that. The asterisk is just piling it on.

[west coast orange and black]

mattingly: I haven't made it "about Bonds" for years now. If it were "years", then you're talking about 3 years? 5? 10? I think I've only voiced my opinions most strongly about Bonds for about 2 years ago most...

seems as thought you end up agreeing in the plural, not the singular.

Barry Bonds *MUST* be held accountable for his actions. If he is unable to account for his actions, then he's unworthy of respect.

so, your condemnation has changed from bonds being accused to having to pay for his actions.

If Barry thinks that someone is an "idiot", then some can also call him an "idiot" the same way. If Barry feels that his records aren't tainted, then there's a legion of people who feel otherwise. As mentioned, that "*" demonstrates just this.

the majority is not always correct.
in this case, the voting was not limited to baseball fans. many fans, i'm certain, have no true sense of what the story of substances in the game has been or is. also, the very casual fans and non-fans who voted just to vote against bonds had an equal say as those who do have a clue.
that's democracy at both its best, and worst, i suppose.

He used his money to simply demonstrate what many baseball fans have long felt about Barry Bonds' 73-HR 2001 season and his 756th HR ball. He felt that it was tainted, so therefore, the public voted and they felt that it should be branded with an asterisk.

i see nothing "simple" about this entire episode of baseball history, including what will happen to the ball

Were the American public voting also a bunch of idiots? Do you respect the voice of the people's right to an opinion?
of course i respect the right to an opinion. to ask means that you still have but a very small clue as to what makes me tick. in this case, i sincerely believe that the voters got it wrong.
think about it: to vote to permanently mar the ball.

I'm not under the History forum here much, but I've seen a thread or two where forumers ignored Bonds' post-1998 seasons (or thereabouts, but it could be post-1999 or -2000), since they'd felt those weren't attained fairly. Why do you think this is so?
what one believes is what one believes.
i honestly have no clue as to why anyone would spend any time at all dissecting the game and players and stats... and only include bonds in a discussion of substances. anyone who can not reel off 50 names of players who used - not suspected, actually used - oughht ajust keep quiet about certain things 'til the story finally trickles down to 'em. otherwise, it's just bonds bonds bonds.

Had Barry not been so strongly accused of tampering with his body in order to gain such monumental records, especially at his advanced age, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
curious that you and so many others put it so matter-of-factly: bonds used to increase numbers and gain records. have you ever asked him? has anyone? the authors of game of shadows didn't. there have been many assumptions to this story. i have heard 'em and read 'em everywhere from the yard all the way to this board.

[johnnypapa]

But we don't need an asterisk on the ball to do that. The asterisk is just piling it on.


Well you don't need it but apparently a majority of people are pissed off enough to want it. If you can't understand why just think back to how mad you were when there was no baseball because of strikes. (assuming you were mad:)

[SamtheBravesFan]

Well you don't need it but apparently a majority of people are pissed off enough to want it. If you can't understand why just think back to how mad you were when there was no baseball because of strikes. (assuming you were mad:)

I do understand the anger, but I don't share it.

As for the strike, I wasn't angry; I was just sad. I was sad that there would be no baseball, and I wondered when it would come back. I even embraced the replacement players, because that meant baseball was back. I was 11 at the time.

[VTSoxFan]

I do not agree with the decision/vote to deface the ball. I have a great respect for history, and would prefer to have my history served up ungarnished by others' opinions. I believe that the ball should be there as the centerpiece of an exhibit that informs museum visitors of about the era and circumstances, and allows them to draw their own conclusions based on unbiased information.

Given the era of baseball that we are in, it seems likely that there are many, many players using some kind of substance to heal faster, to stay sharp, to get and stay strong. This being the case, then shouldn't every accomplishment and record broken and set anew be under suspicion? Should not every ball from a no-hitter, every gold glove, every item added from now on have an asterisk?

Did Bonds use something to gain an advantage? Prob'ly. He's not the only one, though. He just broke a famous and revered record, and his difficulties in dealing with fans and media make him an easier target.

Defacing an artifact, whatever the circumstances, just doesn't feel right to me. Even if I were one of those angrily ready to expunge Bonds' name and accomplishments from the record books, I would still not want the ball defaced. The circumstances are what they are, and the record was broken under these circumstances. Defacing the artifact -- the ball -- does not and will not change that. It just seems vindictive and destructive.

That's just the way I feel.

[ESPNFan]

Agreed. What percentage of those votes came from non-baseball fans? I cringe at the thought...

http://blogs.bootsnall.com/Leaott/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/sheep.jpg

Yes lord forbid the non baseball fans watching ESPN and having Barry this and Barry that shoved down their throats for the past 4 years not behaving them selves:rolleyes:

[Mattingly]

wcoab, have you ever considered using the "quote" feature here? It certainly helps.
mattingly: I haven't made it "about Bonds" for years now. If it were "years", then you're talking about 3 years? 5? 10? I think I've only voiced my opinions most strongly about Bonds for about 2 years ago most...

seems as thought you end up agreeing in the plural, not the singular.
Agreeing in the plural? I have no idea what's the difference between agreeing in the plural or singular. In either case, who counts the start and current date from when they held a viewpoint?
Barry Bonds *MUST* be held accountable for his actions. If he is unable to account for his actions, then he's unworthy of respect.

so, your condemnation has changed from bonds being accused to having to pay for his actions.
No, it just means that if he couldn't care less about the fans' viewpoints, then the same fans have spoken. Something (the ball) that represents his accomplishment now shows what the fans he's ignored think about what he's done to the game.

Respect the game more; you get respected; respect the game less, you don't get respected. Simple, right?
If Barry thinks that someone is an "idiot", then some can also call him an "idiot" the same way. If Barry feels that his records aren't tainted, then there's a legion of people who feel otherwise. As mentioned, that "*" demonstrates just this.

the majority is not always correct.
in this case, the voting was not limited to baseball fans. many fans, i'm certain, have no true sense of what the story of substances in the game has been or is. also, the very casual fans and non-fans who voted just to vote against bonds had an equal say as those who do have a clue.
that's democracy at both its best, and worst, i suppose.
Who's to say who was a baseball fan or not? What's the definition of a baseball fan? How do you know how many of those asked weren't at one time or the next following a baseball team?

So who are these more educated people you refer to who do have a clue? Do they all reside in the Bay Area and support Bonds? Are we to limit voting on this issue to sports medical professionals? To me, if you wish to be very selective or exclusive, please state the type of people you feel should be qualified to vote. If so, would you accept their conclusion, even if you disagreed with it?
He used his money to simply demonstrate what many baseball fans have long felt about Barry Bonds' 73-HR 2001 season and his 756th HR ball. He felt that it was tainted, so therefore, the public voted and they felt that it should be branded with an asterisk.

i see nothing "simple" about this entire episode of baseball history, including what will happen to the ball
I never said that the entire history of baseball was simple. However, putting an asterisk on the ball lets Barry and his supporters know what many baseball and other fans feel about how he'd gotten the HR and other slugging records.
Were the American public voting also a bunch of idiots? Do you respect the voice of the people's right to an opinion?
of course i respect the right to an opinion. to ask means that you still have but a very small clue as to what makes me tick. in this case, i sincerely believe that the voters got it wrong.
think about it: to vote to permanently mar the ball.
I never claimed to have a great clue as to what makes you tick. Do you have a clue as to what makes me tick? I'm not here to decipher someone's overall "wavelength".

As to marring the ball, I thought about it. Right after I figured that Barry marred the #755, I didn't figure there was much more room for discussion. Record marred = ball marred. If Barry can't handle this, then he could've tried replying honestly to people who'd wondered aloud if he'd cheated. Those "no comments" seem unlike how he'd discussed the issue when it was his turn to get the short end of the respect when the ball was marked up.
I'm not under the History forum here much, but I've seen a thread or two where forumers ignored Bonds' post-1998 seasons (or thereabouts, but it could be post-1999 or -2000), since they'd felt those weren't attained fairly. Why do you think this is so?
what one believes is what one believes.
i honestly have no clue as to why anyone would spend any time at all dissecting the game and players and stats... and only include bonds in a discussion of substances. anyone who can not reel off 50 names of players who used - not suspected, actually used - oughht ajust keep quiet about certain things 'til the story finally trickles down to 'em. otherwise, it's just bonds bonds bonds.
I'm quite sure there are other players who've used. However, none of them have broken the single-season and career HR records. Does anyone care that Jeremy Giambi and other no-names have used?

So people should remain quiet until the story trickles down? From where? Is Barry going to enlighten us on the whole story?
Had Barry not been so strongly accused of tampering with his body in order to gain such monumental records, especially at his advanced age, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
curious that you and so many others put it so matter-of-factly: bonds used to increase numbers and gain records. have you ever asked him? has anyone? the authors of game of shadows didn't. there have been many assumptions to this story. i have heard 'em and read 'em everywhere from the yard all the way to this board.
You want me to ask Barry Bonds? Should I bring a camera and microphone? Will he answer my questions?

He's gone out of his way to avoid the media, so you think he's going to suddenly provide answers? For someone who bypasses the media, I can't sit down waiting for him to reply to anything. If he wants people to ask him questions, perhaps he should try answering said questions every now and then.

Hey, Barry, did you cheat or didn't you? Are you paying Greg Anderson not to testify against you? Please let me know when he's actually ready to answer those and other questions.

[BoofBonser26]

Did Bonds use something to gain an advantage? Prob'ly. He's not the only one, though. He just broke a famous and revered record, and his difficulties in dealing with fans and media make him an easier target.
While I sympathize with your statement that Bonds isn't the only one, I also feel that since he's the only one who broke the most prestigious record in sports, he deserves all the "attention" he gets.

[rkoch]

I was certainly dissappointed that more people did not vote as I did,"blow it into outer space". Then it wouldnt be in the hall, and would be in reposed in an area that it richly deserved.

[Padday]

I was certainly dissappointed that more people did not vote as I did,"blow it into outer space". Then it wouldnt be in the hall, and would be in reposed in an area that it richly deserved.

I don't like this option because it would almost seem like a tribute or something. The same way people have had their ashes blasted into space.

I'm happy with the result. The ball forever tarnished just like the record and part of history it represents and on display for the world to see and spread one of lifes great lessons: cheaters never win.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I don't like this option because it would almost seem like a tribute or something. The same way people have had their ashes blasted into space.

I'm happy with the result. The ball forever tarnished just like the record and part of history it represents and on display for the world to see and spread one of lifes great lessons: cheaters never win.

The only ways that Bonds won't win are if his playing record is completely erased and he won't be elected to the Hall of Fame. Neither of these things will happen.