1990 AL SS Gold Glove

[sturg1dj]

I just stumbled on this, and it seems to be another example of how the gold glove voter make some strange decisions.

Winner: Ozzie Guillen
Leage Average FLD%: .973
League Average Range: 4.00
FLD Range
Guillen .977 4.57
Riplen .996 4.20
Fernandez .989 4.83

[ipitch]

It's even stranger since Tony Fernandez had won the GG the previous four years. Usually the previous year's winner has a big advantage over everyone else (see Rafael Palmeiro in 1999).

[sturg1dj]

i don't really member too much from Ozzie Guillen's playing career.....but I am assuming that he was flashier than Ripken and Fernandez...thats the only reason I could think of

[Westlake]

BP agrees with you as well, by giving Fernandez a FRAA +22, and Smith a -1.

[RuthMayBond]

I had Tony that year, and in the top 20 defensive SS careers. Believe me, it won't be the first Gold Glove voter screwup or the last :grouchy

[dgarza]

Ozzie got a lot of help that year since the Sox finally found a desent 2B to team up with. Without that happening, he wouldn't have won it.

[plask_stirlac]

I can't see this one being explained. From the 1990 perspective, Ripken played every game so he might have 13 E where Fernandez has 12 in a given year, but Tony missed 15 games so it comes out about even or the Orioles had more groundballs or a worse 1B. FPct might come up total E probably weighed the most, along with flair (sigh).

But Ripken had 3 total errors. That's one awful game for some shortstops. 3! In 162 (duh). Amazing. His Glove really was Golden with ability and his throws accurate and swift.

Hose job!!

[RuthMayBond]

I can't see this one being explained. From the 1990 perspective, Ripken played every game so he might have 13 E where Fernandez has 12 in a given year, but Tony missed 15 games so it comes out about even or the Orioles had more groundballs or a worse 1B. FPct might come up total E probably weighed the most, along with flair (sigh).

But Ripken had 3 total errors. That's one awful game for some shortstops. 3! In 162 (duh). Amazing. His Glove really was Golden with ability and his throws accurate and swift.

Hose job!!It's more than just errors/fielding% :rolleyes:

[dgarza]

It's more than just errors/fielding% :rolleyes:
True. I think Ripken edges Guillen still. Same with Alvaro Espinoza. Although it could be close.
Not that Guillen was merely average.
He was arguably the #2-4 SS in the AL that year, but he was no Blue Jay.
Wan't Fernandez also a somewhat "flashy" player in the field?

[RuthMayBond]

True. I think Ripken edges Guillen still. Same with Alvaro Espinoza. Although it could be close.
Not that Guillen was merely average.
He was arguably the #2-4 SS in the AL that year, but he was no Blue Jay.
Wan't Fernandez also a somewhat "flashy" player in the field?
--Player-- PO A RF
Ripken 242 435 4.2
Guillen 252 474 4.57
Espinoza 268 447 4.77
Fernandez 297 480 4.83

Ripken played all those games and still couldn't get to that many balls?

[dgarza]

--Player-- PO A RF
Ripken 242 435 4.2
Guillen 252 474 4.57
Espinoza 268 447 4.77
Fernandez 297 480 4.83

Ripken played all those games and still couldn't get to that many balls?
Please see post #8 and apply for other stats.

[RubeBaker]

It think part of the problem was Ripken was the more fundamentally sound fielder, but Guillen was more spectacular. Too often, stats get ignored and people vote on only what they can see. Example: Derek Jeter. Any coincidence he won the gold glove the same year he made his famous head-first dive into the stnads?

[plask_stirlac]

It's more than just errors/fielding% :rolleyes:

Please read my post. From the 1990 perspective... mostly E, PO, A. Actually, today as well for voters.

If you had BBRef, tell me how. Again, for the voters. Maybe RFg was used, maybe not. It was probably on the fringe (well, the PO and A were known), but would league RFg be available? Probably not. Comparing raw RFg between two players... seems incomplete.

I would look now at FRAA, games, Rate2, RF9 vs league, FPct vs. league, ZR. Wistfully I would use the data of tape-watching statisticians, and there are several now, but they take time.