Bradley Injured Arguing with Ump

[jsmets92]

Video (http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w_id=601434&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive09/092307_colsdn_bradley_ejection_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/09/23/colmlb-sdnmlb-1&vid=7758&mid=200709232226558&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1)

I smell a little bit of baseball karma

[NYMets523]

Unfortunately videos on MLB.com don't work on my computer.

[SamtheBravesFan]

So... basically Bud Black pushed down his own player and he got hurt?

[psbaseballfan27]

Wow!! How???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jsmets92]

So... basically Bud Black pushed down his own player and he got hurt?

That's what it looks like. Probably a hamstring.

[jsmets92]

Unfortunately videos on MLB.com don't work on my computer.

There is another video here
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270923125

[rockin500]

So... basically Bud Black pushed down his own player and he got hurt?
prevented him from probably brutalizing the umpire though.

hes such a nutjob

[GiambiJuice]

From a CBSSportsline gamelogger:

"In the end of game notes, it's going to say: Bradley - ejected in 8th, pulled hamstring during subsequent argument. That one incident sums up Bradley's entire career."

[NYMets523]

There is another video here
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270923125

Thanks. Bradley is such a hothead.

[geezer]

Vintage Bradley, but getting hurt during the argument, now I have seen everything.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

This will gain Black a few more Manager of the Year votes for sure.

I have tons of sympathy for anyone who has to deal with that idiot.

[BoofBonser26]

This will gain Black a few more Manager of the Year votes for sure.

I have tons of sympathy for anyone who has to deal with that idiot.
Completely agree.

What chance is he on now?

Expos
Indians
Dodgers
A's
Padres

That'd be...number five. :dismay:

[BoofBonser26]

Bud Black for NL MVP.

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

[rockin500]

prevented him from probably brutalizing the umpire though.

hes such a nutjob
eh, on review, the umpire escalated things beyond what he should have done. Bradley shouldnt have gone off like he did, but bradley IS right is that winters was terribly unprofessional as well.

[Baseball Guru]

So... basically Bud Black pushed down his own player and he got hurt?

Not exactly... Black was trying to hold him back and his knee looked like it buckled and he fell...

[Erik Bedard]

eh, on review, the umpire escalated things beyond what he should have done. Bradley shouldnt have gone off like he did, but bradley IS right is that winters was terribly unprofessional as well.

I'm with you on this. Milton Bradley is probably the shortest-tempered player in baseball, but an umpire should never say anything to make any player go off, especially not unprovokedly.

[RubeBaker]

I was expecting to see him get picked off, or just miss beating out a throw, but what the hell did either of them say? So pointless.

[Stray Cat]

Don't let the door hit your a$$ on your way out dude! :waving

[BoofBonser26]

Don't let the door hit your a$$ on your way out dude! :waving

For the fourth time! :sleepy:

[Dalkowski110]

Didn't Dave Kingman hurt himself arguing with the ump?

[sds416]

Well here's 2 opinions that should carry some weight:
1st- Padres 1st base coach Bobby Meacham:

"In 26 years of baseball, I can honestly say that's the most disconcerting conversation I have ever heard from an umpire to a player," Meacham said. "It was almost like he wanted to agitate the whole thing. He wanted to get Milton boiling for some reason. Milton, he held his cool. I was just appalled."

Padres CEO Sandy Alderson, a former general manager and president of the Oakland Athletics, said he'd never seen a player injured like that. "But as far as I'm concerned, it was necessary," he said.

Alderson used to work in the commissioner's office, where one of his duties was overseeing umpires.

"We're not going to sit by and see an umpire bait a player," Alderson said. He added that if the commissioner's office concludes the situation was handled appropriately, "I'll be shocked".

To top it off, Hunter Wendelstadt, who has as much business being a major league umpire as Helen Keller, tossed Bud Black 3 pitches later after exchanging a few words about Hunter's blind man's call of a check swing.

This umpiring crew didn't belong together. Winters is a known hot head, Wendelstadt is a blind jackass, living off his father's legacy. MLB saddled Froeming, who was the crew chief, with this bunch, largely out of politics. (They've been dying to get rid of him for a long time and he's been blacklisted ever since some religously insensitive comments he made about a MLB front office person several years ago).

[PVNICK]

I didn't realize the ump aspect. But other than the anecdotes from announcers who used to play it's obvious umps are just way too full of themselves. I think in a Cubs game a few days ago I saw the ump literally moonwalk and slide backwards on his strike three call. Not once but twice. Is there anything more annoying than the 3-2 count, batters starts to go to first and then after several beats the ump makes an exagerrated strike three call. The umps theese days seem to be operating under the misconception that they are part of the show.

[KHenry14]

It's pretty obvious that Winters went out of his way to provoke Bradley. Evidently he called him names that would cause a fight anywhere in the world, and moreso, Winters did it knowing that Bradley is a hothead who'd lose control, and sure enough it worked.

However Meacham isn't noted for behaving like that and his version is very damning of Winters. Frankly, Winters should be fired for engaging in that type of baiting.

Wendlestedt is an embarrassment to MLB and should also be termed. He got to the Show early solely because of his dad's legacy, and has proven over and over again he has no business being a Major League Ump.

MLB better start taking these issues seriously or else theyare going to have some big problems with teams and players.

[NYMets523]

The umpiring has just been awful all year. Some of it is due to these egomanics. Whoever takes over as commish better purge baseball of all the ones causing problems.


Milton Bradley is out for the season with a Torn ACL due to this incident.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3033346

[KCGHOST]

Below is what Baseball Prospectus had in their This Week in Quotes column.

THE HOTHEAD MIKE WINTERS STRIKES AGAIN

"Everyone is going to make a twist that Milton Bradley blew up again. This kid [Bradley] is doing a great job holding it together. He's not going to get thrown out because he knows his team needs him. But there's no possible way a man is going to stand there and take what he said to Milton."
--Padres first base coach Bobby Meacham, on Milton Bradley's encounter with umpire Mike Winters.

"In 26 years of baseball, I couldn't believe my ears the way that he spoke to Milton. [It] was so disrespectful, so angry, so vindictive. The boiling point is when he called Milton a name. Milton did not say anything to him to get him to do that."
--Meacham

"If he had said that to me, I would have charged him."
--Meacham. Bradley sprained his knee while being restrained by his manager, Bud Black.

"It's terrible, and now because of him my knee's hurt. If he costs me my season because of that, he needs to be reprimanded. I'm going to take some action."
--Bradley, on the upshot of the argument. (Corey Brock, MLB.com)

You this kind of bull from umpires is not something MLB wants. The last thing they want to do is go back to the Richie Phillips days (remember Ken Kaiser??) when he had the umpires thinking they were the reason people paid their money. I am sure something will be done, but it will be behind the scenes.

[slugger33]

Bud Black is a total idiot. I don't see why other players try to hold players black when they are about to fight. Just let them go.

[Westlake]

Bud Black is a total idiot. I don't see why other players try to hold players black when they are about to fight. Just let them go.

The idiots are the people who think there's something wrong with trying to hold back one of your players... You do know people get suspended for stuff like that right?

[philipthegreat]

Below is what Baseball Prospectus had in their This Week in Quotes column.

THE HOTHEAD MIKE WINTERS STRIKES AGAIN

"Everyone is going to make a twist that Milton Bradley blew up again. This kid [Bradley] is doing a great job holding it together. He's not going to get thrown out because he knows his team needs him. But there's no possible way a man is going to stand there and take what he said to Milton."
--Padres first base coach Bobby Meacham, on Milton Bradley's encounter with umpire Mike Winters.

"In 26 years of baseball, I couldn't believe my ears the way that he spoke to Milton. [It] was so disrespectful, so angry, so vindictive. The boiling point is when he called Milton a name. Milton did not say anything to him to get him to do that."
--Meacham

"If he had said that to me, I would have charged him."
--Meacham. Bradley sprained his knee while being restrained by his manager, Bud Black.

"It's terrible, and now because of him my knee's hurt. If he costs me my season because of that, he needs to be reprimanded. I'm going to take some action."
--Bradley, on the upshot of the argument. (Corey Brock, MLB.com)

You this kind of bull from umpires is not something MLB wants. The last thing they want to do is go back to the Richie Phillips days (remember Ken Kaiser??) when he had the umpires thinking they were the reason people paid their money. I am sure something will be done, but it will be behind the scenes.


With many umpires today it seems they often provoke the arguements.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Bottom line: if Bradley didn't have a reputation for being trouble, Winters wouldn't have yanked his chain to get him started.

It's pretty clear what happened but I have little sympathy for Bradley, and just for that reason.

This is a lesson most kids learn while in school: if you are a hothead, people will yank your chain just for sport and to get you in trouble, since it will be their word against yours, and people will take their word if you have a reputation for being trouble.

My younger son is in the process of learning that lesson in middle school. But he's 13. What's Bradley's excuse?

[Dalkowski110]

You know, the quality of umpiring this year has been mentioned by some. My Dad and I have also noticed this. My Dad keeps asking me if he's getting older, or if umpiring quality since maybe 2005 or 2006 has just absolutely gone to hell.

[rockin500]

Bottom line: if Bradley didn't have a reputation for being trouble, Winters wouldn't have yanked his chain to get him started.

It's pretty clear what happened but I have little sympathy for Bradley, and just for that reason.

This is a lesson most kids learn while in school: if you are a hothead, people will yank your chain just for sport and to get you in trouble, since it will be their word against yours, and people will take their word if you have a reputation for being trouble.

My younger son is in the process of learning that lesson in middle school. But he's 13. What's Bradley's excuse?

wow, all i have to say is wow.

[sds416]

Bottom line: if Bradley didn't have a reputation for being trouble, Winters wouldn't have yanked his chain to get him started.

It's pretty clear what happened but I have little sympathy for Bradley, and just for that reason.

This is a lesson most kids learn while in school: if you are a hothead, people will yank your chain just for sport and to get you in trouble, since it will be their word against yours, and people will take their word if you have a reputation for being trouble.

My younger son is in the process of learning that lesson in middle school. But he's 13. What's Bradley's excuse?


Congratulations. This is without question the dumbest post ever. You do realize the umpire is there to umpire the game. Period. He is not there to interact with the players. And if what Meacham, Bradley and Bud Black have said is true with regards to what Winters called him, Winters is the one who should be fired and the only shame is that Bud Black held Bradley back from beating the living hell out of him. There's no place for what Winters did. None. To think its OK because Bradley is known to have a short fuse is both ignorant and childish.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Did I say it was OK? No, I did not. Did I say that I agree with what the ump did? Certainly not.

I don't know where you are getting these ideas. Winters is clearly a bully and a troublemaker.

What I said, simply, is that it wouldn't have happened had it not been Bradley. Period. Everything about it being OK, is your words, and not mine. Read my post and see for yourself.

Funny how controversy and trouble always seems to follow some people around, and not others.

[slugger33]

The idiots are the people who think there's something wrong with trying to hold back one of your players... You do know people get suspended for stuff like that right?You can get suspended for not holding back your players? Horrible rule. It wasn't all Bradley. The umpire had to say something rude to make him explode. The umpire is the one that should be suspended. And I can't believe that a coach would throw down his own player.

[Westlake]

You can get suspended for not holding back your players? Horrible rule. It wasn't all Bradley. The umpire had to say something rude to make him explode. The umpire is the one that should be suspended. And I can't believe that a coach would throw down his own player.

That almost made sense. I know it wasn't all Bradley, and Black didnt throw his player down...have you actually seen it... its obviously Bradley's fault he fell... its not like Black violently pushed him on the ground.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Congratulations. This is without question the dumbest post ever. You do realize the umpire is there to umpire the game. Period. He is not there to interact with the players. And if what Meacham, Bradley and Bud Black have said is true with regards to what Winters called him, Winters is the one who should be fired and the only shame is that Bud Black held Bradley back from beating the living hell out of him. There's no place for what Winters did. None. To think its OK because Bradley is known to have a short fuse is both ignorant and childish.

This has got to be like the first or second time ever I've agreed with you. I mean just because Bradley has a bad reputation doesn't mean he can't be right. In this case he is. I hope Winters gets fired and I hope the San Deigo Padres file actions against him.

[Erik Bedard]

Not really Bradley's fault that he fell. It looked like it was kind of a freak accident (unless, of course, Winters just shuts up).

As to it happening if it's someone other than Bradley, you certainly have a point. Milton Bradley probably has the biggest reputation of being a hothead of anybody in the majors, but apparently this was one instance where it was almost all right for him to go off.

[NYMets523]

Did I say it was OK? No, I did not. Did I say that I agree with what the ump did? Certainly not.

I don't know where you are getting these ideas. Winters is clearly a bully and a troublemaker.

What I said, simply, is that it wouldn't have happened had it not been Bradley. Period. Everything about it being OK, is your words, and not mine. Read my post and see for yourself.

Funny how controversy and trouble always seems to follow some people around, and not others.

I don't know what was said, but from what the 1B coach said, it seems like anyone would have flipped out after hearing that. The Ump is at fault. His job isn't to taunt or bait the players. It's to keep his mouth shut and watch the ball.

[Williamsburg2599]

Sounds like something Griffey would do. Not the arguing part, the getting a career threating injury while doing basically nothing, part.

[BoofBonser26]

Bottom line: if Bradley didn't have a reputation for being trouble, Winters wouldn't have yanked his chain to get him started.

It's pretty clear what happened but I have little sympathy for Bradley, and just for that reason.

This is a lesson most kids learn while in school: if you are a hothead, people will yank your chain just for sport and to get you in trouble, since it will be their word against yours, and people will take their word if you have a reputation for being trouble.

My younger son is in the process of learning that lesson in middle school. But he's 13. What's Bradley's excuse?
I agree completely.

A sane person keeps their mouth shut, tunes out the umpire, and continues to play baseball.

Not an excuse for Winters, but you don't attack someone because they call you names. That's exactly what ytown said it was - junior high maturity level.

[MyDogSparty]

The umpire handled this very poorly. He should be fined, suspended, or even fired pending an investigation. My guess is that he's got the same problem Milton has with his temper.

This quote by Milton tells me that this isn't the last time his temper gets him into trouble..."It's terrible, and now because of him my knee's hurt. If he costs me my season because of that, he needs to be reprimanded. I'm going to take some action."

Milton needs to understand that NOBODY is more responsible for his injury than himself. Until that happens he is his own worst enemy. It unfortunate because he's a good ballplayer.

[Pine Tar]

I agree completely.

A sane person keeps their mouth shut, tunes out the umpire, and continues to play baseball.

Not an excuse for Winters, but you don't attack someone because they call you names. That's exactly what ytown said it was - junior high maturity level.

Two important things to consider:
1. Lets get this straight, Bradley did not "attack" Winters. He was trying to get in the face of Winters to challenge him on what he said. If you think he was going to hit Winters or kick him or whatever you might consider an attack, you are prognosticating. It is likley that WInters would have been bumped or even spat at (remember Robbie Alomar) but not "attacked". I think that term is way too loaded to describe the likely outcome of the situation had Bradley not been held back.

2. It is no wonder that baseball is having such an image problem in the African American community. When white umps goad and disrespect a black player, it looks like he was singled out for being black. I am not saying that Winters' statements toward Bradley were racially motivated, but the perception of the African American community is that black baseball players are singled out. See the past statements of Gary Shefield, Albert Belle, and Kenny Lofton. The perception is that baseball is a white man's sport. The Milton Bradley situation simply affirms people's perceptions.

[SamtheBravesFan]

2. It is no wonder that baseball is having such an image problem in the African American community. When white umps goad and disrespect a black player, it looks like he was singled out for being black. I am not saying that Winters' statements toward Bradley were racially motivated, but the perception of the African American community is that black baseball players are singled out. See the past statements of Gary Shefield, Albert Belle, and Kenny Lofton. The perception is that baseball is a white man's sport. The Milton Bradley situation simply affirms people's perceptions.

Just because you perceive something to be a particular way doesn't make it true (in general). Don't make Bradley a victim in this. It was his fault that he argued with a very unprofessional umpire in the first place. Winters never should have started it, but Bradley should never have escalated it either. After all, if he had just ignored it, then he could have reported it later and he would have had a witness.

[PVNICK]

I don't know what was said, but as a rule if you argue with every idiot you come across you don't get very far. Unfortunately that's not the way things go any more in the me, me, me world. Road rage, horns going two beats after a light changes, little league parents, and on and on and on and on. As for Bradley I took the impression he was contemplating legal action not a beating vis-a-vis the ump. "Turn the other cheek" is apparently just something people love to say but not actually abide by.

[Stray Cat]

2. It is no wonder that baseball is having such an image problem in the African American community. When white umps goad and disrespect a black player, it looks like he was singled out for being black. I am not saying that Winters' statements toward Bradley were racially motivated, but the perception of the African American community is that black baseball players are singled out. See the past statements of Gary Shefield, Albert Belle, and Kenny Lofton. The perception is that baseball is a white man's sport. The Milton Bradley situation simply affirms people's perceptions.

I don't get this statement at all. I watch at least 5 games a week and the playing field is pretty well spread out between white, black, oriental and hispanic. What cave have you been living in.
Milton Bradley is a baseball player with an anger problem. The sooner he controls it or leaves the game so someone else who wants to play professional baseball can take his place, the better. After this season I say send him back to the farm. :waving

[Rags2Riches]

Todd Helton is the wild card in this whole situation, he's darned if he does and darned if he doesn't sort of speak.

1.) if his story matches Bradleys and Meachams that Winters provoked Bradley, then he'll have the Umps after him (bad calls etc...)

2.) if his story doesn't match Bradleys and Meachams then the players union will be upset with him......

honestly I believe Bradley and think that Winters told the HP ump that he tossed his bat at him and then he provoked Bradley when he got down to 1b (based soley on his past practices of course) I hope MLB really looks into this and that it comes out that Winters is in the fault....no matter what type of person people think Bradley is, there is no reason what so ever for a ump to provoke a player/Manager as some do during a agruement.

[BoofBonser26]

Two important things to consider:
1. Lets get this straight, Bradley did not "attack" Winters. He was trying to get in the face of Winters to challenge him on what he said. If you think he was going to hit Winters or kick him or whatever you might consider an attack, you are prognosticating. It is likley that WInters would have been bumped or even spat at (remember Robbie Alomar) but not "attacked". I think that term is way too loaded to describe the likely outcome of the situation had Bradley not been held back.

True. But when you're dealing with a player who has been repeatedly arrested, has fled from police, and has thrown equipment all over the field, in addition to countless other displays of a complete lack of anger management I can't recall the specifics of, you've got a guy you HAVE to restrain.

All Bradley did was prove that he has the maturity of a 12-year old. Except that some 12-year olds know to ignore bullies.

[PVNICK]

If I'm not mistaken according to his post-game comments Bradley started the whole thing by asking the 1st base ump if he said taht Bradley threw his bat at the HP ump.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Bradley's a piker compared to Cobb, Anson, Hornsby, Dick Allen ... he's about even with Sheffield and AJ Pierzynski.

[Pine Tar]

If I'm not mistaken according to his post-game comments Bradley started the whole thing by asking the 1st base ump if he said taht Bradley threw his bat at the HP ump.

How dare he ask the ump a question!

[Pine Tar]

True. But when you're dealing with a player who has been repeatedly arrested, has fled from police, and has thrown equipment all over the field, in addition to countless other displays of a complete lack of anger management I can't recall the specifics of, you've got a guy you HAVE to restrain.

All Bradley did was prove that he has the maturity of a 12-year old. Except that some 12-year olds know to ignore bullies.
Nothing you have said makes someone more likley to hit an ump. Get it straight, he wasnt being restrained because bud black thought he would hit the ump. He was restrained bc there would likley be bumping and the sort. That would result in a suspension.
and as for throwing things all over the field didn't George brett do that from time to time? How beserk did he go during the pine tar incident? Was that ok?what was so different?

[Pine Tar]

Just because you perceive something to be a particular way doesn't make it true (in general). Don't make Bradley a victim in this. It was his fault that he argued with a very unprofessional umpire in the first place. Winters never should have started it, but Bradley should never have escalated it either. After all, if he had just ignored it, then he could have reported it later and he would have had a witness.

I wish what you are saying were true, but unfortunately for things to change in baseball there usually has to be a great deal of media and player pressure. I mean, how much outside pressure was there before they instituted a drug testing policy that wasn't laughable? If Bradley had kept his cool, and reported things later, nothing is likely to have been done about it. Now everyone is talking about it, and many influential persons are being very loud about needing to make changes to how unpires are held accountable. Its unfortunate that Bradley was injured in this, because he is not likely to get suspended or fined while I'll bet that Winters is both. That should tell you something about how people around baseball view what happened.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I wish what you are saying were true, but unfortunately for things to change in baseball there usually has to be a great deal of media and player pressure. I mean, how much outside pressure was there before they instituted a drug testing policy that wasn't laughable? If Bradley had kept his cool, and reported things later, nothing is likely to have been done about it. Now everyone is talking about it, and many influential persons are being very loud about needing to make changes to how unpires are held accountable. Its unfortunate that Bradley was injured in this, because he is not likely to get suspended or fined while I'll bet that Winters is both. That should tell you something about how people around baseball view what happened.

Well, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but if what Bradley said is true, then Winters baited him. I suppose you're right that Bradley isn't going to get suspended; he is in effect serving a "suspension" with that injury. He could be fined, but we'll have to see. The best thing to do is fine Bradley and Winters anyway.

[Pine Tar]

Well, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but if what Bradley said is true, then Winters baited him. I suppose you're right that Bradley isn't going to get suspended; he is in effect serving a "suspension" with that injury. He could be fined, but we'll have to see. The best thing to do is fine Bradley and Winters anyway.

Fine Bradley for what, acting upset? If he was fined there is no way that the fine would hold up under appeal. My point though was that by acting as upset about this as he did, then there is likely to be a positive change in baseball where ump misbehavior will be less tolerated. So turning the other cheek is not always the best way of making things better. Remember, umpires are supposed to be impartial. It must therefore be awefully frustrating for Bradley to hear umps talk to him this way. It was clear in his interview that BRadley viewed the umps as singling him out throughout the game. That should not be happenning and hopefully after this incident it will happen less often to other players.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Fine Bradley for what, acting upset? If he was fined there is no way that the fine would hold up under appeal. My point though was that by acting as upset about this as he did, then there is likely to be a positive change in baseball where ump misbehavior will be less tolerated. So turning the other cheek is not always the best way of making things better. Remember, umpires are supposed to be impartial. It must therefore be awefully frustrating for Bradley to hear umps talk to him this way. It was clear in his interview that BRadley viewed the umps as singling him out throughout the game. That should not be happenning and hopefully after this incident it will happen less often to other players.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I got a bit jumbled. I don't blame Bradley for arguing with Winters after the baiting (who wouldn't get upset at that?), but I also think that in general, cooler heads should prevail in situations like that.

Be that as it may, Winters is the one who should be disciplined here, I agree with that.

[AutographCollector]

You know, the quality of umpiring this year has been mentioned by some. My Dad and I have also noticed this. My Dad keeps asking me if he's getting older, or if umpiring quality since maybe 2005 or 2006 has just absolutely gone to hell.

Prime example: Angel Hernandez
:waving

[PeteF3]

Mike Winters has been suspended for the rest of the season. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3037237) I would hope it would carry over into next year as well.

Of course Bradley isn't blameless in this, but for an umpire to get suspended at all means something really bad must have gone down. As a Tribe fan who grew tired of Bradley's antics years ago I'm usually one of the last guys to defend him, but something smelled funny to me when I watched the clip again and saw that the first guy to start verbally sparring with Winters was not Bradley, but Bobby Meacham.

Then you had Todd Helton's non-denial and--according to Buster Olney--a meeting between him and MLB.

[KCGHOST]

I think people should have waited a couple days to see the upshot of this event rather than immediately jumping on Bradley. Then when they made their pronouncement from on high they might have got it right.