which young pitcher has the best shot at the hall?

[willshad]

leaving Joahann Santana out of it, which young pitcher(s) do you think has a shot at the hall? There seem to be a bunch of young guys who are all about equal, with none really breaking from the pack.

- Carlos Zambrano
- Jake Peavy
- Roy Halliday
- Tim Hudson ( a bit older, but still good)
- Roy Oswalt
- Dontrelle Wilis (having a terrible year, but still young)
- CC Sabithia
- Brandon Webb
- Josh Beckett
- Chien-ming Wang

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Is Oswalt still considered "young"? He turned 30 last month. I still pick Oswalt, though.

[philipthegreat]

I would say Johhan santana but where is he on this list:think:

[Chickazoola]

Sabathia, Peavy, and Webb I like alot. Sabathia has an ok shot at 300 if he's lucky, and Peavy is basically the NL's version of Santana, and Webb has looked great so far.

If Beckett keeps pitching in Boston he will get a lot of playoff action, and HOF voters love that.

Halladay if he was on a better team would be up on my list too.

Willis is going to be out of the league or middle relieving by the end of the decade I think.

Wang I like alot too, and if he keeps winning 18 games a year who knows where he will end up.

Oswalt and Zambrano, probably have had the best careers so far, but I think both guys are on a decline, and Zambrano especially concerns due to his heavy workload.

[tearforamariner]

I’ve ranked the players by age and given my input on each of them:

Dontrelle Willis – Willis tanked. He was an overrated rookie who put up a great sophomore campaign. Since then, he has followed it up by one mediocre season and another horrible one. Definitely hurt his chances this year.
Carlos Zambrano – A friend of mine nicknamed Zambrano “the Internal Train-Wreck”. Of the pitchers here, only Willis has done more to weaken his Hall chances than Zambrano this year.
Jake Peavy – Third youngest and definitely the best of the under-28 guys. Has a good shot if he keeps it up.
C.C. Sabathia – Possibly has the best shot of this group of reaching 300 wins, and this may be his only shot at the Hall.
Josh Beckett – Beckett is talented, but early injury problems may have destroyed his hall chances.
Chien-Ming Wang – Wang is empty. All he does is collect wins. He has a slightly above average career ERA and an average WHIP. His K/BB ratio is terrible. Not a Hall candidate.
Brandon Webb – The last five years have been pretty good for Webb overall, but the voters like win-loss records, and Webb’s is only 9 games above .500 right now. He has a ways to go before he can sway the voters.
Roy Oswalt – Also has a fair shot at reaching 300 wins. My pick for the best in this group, he’s strung together 7 pretty darn good seasons to start off his career.
Roy Halladay – Halladay has been pretty good up to this point in his career, but I faer he has been over-used and his arm can’t last much longer.
Tim Hudson – Hudson has a shot, but only if he can return to Oakland form.

[Erik Bedard]

Why are Beckett, Sabathia, and Wang on here over Erik Bedard? All four are the same age (27), and Bedard has the highest ERA+. He will also, in all likelihood, become the only one of the four to lead his league in a meaningful category (SO/9). Aside from longetivity, I like his career thus far over any of the other three.

[tearforamariner]

Why are Beckett, Sabathia, and Wang on here over Erik Bedard? All four are the same age (27), and Bedard has the highest ERA+. He will also, in all likelihood, become the only one of the four to lead his league in a meaningful category (SO/9). Aside from longetivity, I like his career thus far over any of the other three.

His ERA+ is even with Wang's and is barely higher than Sabathia and Sabathia has pitched twice as many innings.

Anyway, the title of this thread is "which young pitcher has the best shot at the hall?", not which one is the best. Bedard is the same age as Sabathia and has less than half of Sabathia's wins. Bedard has five fewer wins than Wang despite pitching in 35 more games. Hall voters like wins. Sabathia has an outside shot at 300 and Wang might just lead the league in wins for both of his first two years as a full-time starter. Wins are the big reason why Bedard doesn't have as good of a shot at the hall as Sabathia or Wang. I think Bedard is clearly a better pitcher than Wang and probably at the same level as Sabathia.

[Erik Bedard]

Hall voters like strikeouts as well. And that's definitely Bedard's strong suit.

You're right that Wang has a better chance to get in to the Hall, stupid though it may be. As long as he pitches for the Yankees, and continues to be their ace, he probably has a better shot than most of the other people on here. However, projecting to the future, Bedard and Beckett have had the best seasons this year, which bodes well for future years. Wang has had a very Chien-Ming Wang year, lots of wins but only a bit above average everywhere else. Sabathia has been better than Wang this year as well, though not on a level with Beckett and Bedard.

[Chickazoola]

Maybe we should all wait 10 years before we seriously discuss any of this.

Bedard hasn't pitched a full season in the majors yet. Wang has improved his k rate every year, and may continue that improvement. Bedard could be the next Erik Hanson for all we know.

And plenty of players emerge after 27 to become hall candidates just as many players fade after 27.

[Erik Bedard]

He pitched a full season last year, and almost did this year (and still leads the majors in strikeouts, even despite not pitching for three weeks). The difference between him and Hanson is that Hanson never once had a season where he posted an ERA+ over 130, or one where he reached Bedard's mark (through the end of August, even) of 221 strikeouts. He could definitely get a career-altering injury, but barring anything like that, a high-strikeout pitcher will generally age better than a low-K sinkerballer like Wang.

[Chickazoola]

He pitched a full season last year, and almost did this year (and still leads the majors in strikeouts, even despite not pitching for three weeks). The difference between him and Hanson is that Hanson never once had a season where he posted an ERA+ over 130, or one where he reached Bedard's mark (through the end of August, even) of 221 strikeouts. He could definitely get a career-altering injury, but barring anything like that, a high-strikeout pitcher will generally age better than a low-K sinkerballer like Wang.

I should amend my statement, Bedard has yet to pitch 200 innings in a season. I like Bedard alot(he will anchor my fantasy rotation in my keeper league), but he has the shortest track record of all the pitchers listed, and he pitches for the worst team. He also didn't get to the majors for good until 25. He would need to be very stellar for at least 10 years to be a viable candidate.

[Erik Bedard]

True, but he's still a better pitcher than Chien-Ming Wang, and about the same as Beckett and Sabathia... all three of whom were listed as options. Beckett and Sabathia probably have better chances due to their earlier starts, but Wang made the bigs even later than Bedard. If the voters were reasonable, he'd have no shot.

[tearforamariner]

Hall voters like strikeouts as well. And that's definitely Bedard's strong suit.

You're right that Wang has a better chance to get in to the Hall, stupid though it may be. As long as he pitches for the Yankees, and continues to be their ace, he probably has a better shot than most of the other people on here. However, projecting to the future, Bedard and Beckett have had the best seasons this year, which bodes well for future years. Wang has had a very Chien-Ming Wang year, lots of wins but only a bit above average everywhere else. Sabathia has been better than Wang this year as well, though not on a level with Beckett and Bedard.

I would say that Sabathia’s season is pretty much equal to Bedard’s and Beckett’s. Sabathia has pitched far more innings than either of them. His ERA+ is pretty much equal, and his WHIP is equal to Beckett’s.

[Chickazoola]

The problem again is that no one can say for certain what's going to happen.
If Wang wins 250 games I would say he has a shot. But none of these guys are even hall-eligible with 10 years of service yet, so it's much too early to tell.

Yes Bedard is a better pitcher than Wang, but Wang might end up with better career.

[penneyAA]

I like Peavy from that list.Jason Verlander is very good.Matt Cain, Felix Hernandez, and maybe Mark Beuhrle could do it.

[catbox_9]

I like Peavy from that list.Jason Verlander is very good.Matt Cain, Felix Hernandez, and maybe Mark Beuhrle could do it.


I thought Justin's little brother's name was Ben, but I could be wrong:laugh

Anyways, Verlander has posted back to back 17 win seasons. He has 3 more starts this year and you could say 18 wins is a real possibility. There was talk last year that he was very overrated (although I could never get a real reason as to why). He hasn't dropped his walk ratio a whole lot, but his K numbers are way up (and therefore his K:BB ratio is greatly improved). He can be wild (hence leading the league in WP's and HBP....many of those WPs should have been PB's if you ask me - his catcher seems to be declining rapidly).

Verlander has become very difficult to hit (he's near the league leaders in H/9IP and threw a no-hitter). The sophomore slump didn't hit him this year. He's also had a very good second half which he didn't last year. In fact, his last 4 starts he's given up just 3 earned runs. He plays for a good team that seems to have a good future which means he should get good run support and therefore rack up the wins.

I'm a Tigers fan so I'm a little biased. It's way too early to call him a future HOFer but he is my favorite Tiger so I can dream...

As for your other guys, Hernandez has shown flashed of brilliance, but needs to put together good full seasons (he's still very young though so it can happen). Cain has an above average ERA, but his team gives him no run support at all. He lost today to move to 7-15 with this line:
6 IP, 1H, 0 BB, 1ER. No matter how good his other numbers are, 7-15 seasons won't get you in the HOF.

Buehrle has quite a few wins and isn't too old. His team should score some runs but can't this year for some reason. I could see him winning a lot of games. HOF? Who knows.

[Chickazoola]

Buehrle has quite a few wins and isn't too old. His team should score some runs but can't this year for some reason. I could see him winning a lot of games. HOF? Who knows.

The White Sox won't score runs as long Ozzie is running the show, and relying on Podsednik, Erstad, and Uribe to get on base. Last year was a perfect storm for that offense, just as 2005 was a perfect storm for the pitching staff.

Back on topic, Buerhle is pretty good, but he has the look and feel of Chuck Finley or Jimmy Key, very good starters but not HOF calibre.

[jalbright]

Doing an evaluation of hitters with this little service in isn't easy, but you have a reasonable chance of doing it. With pitchers, it's far more difficult, as they're basically one bad arm injury away from oblivion, and they're putting their arms under the kind of stress that could result in such an injury every time they pitch. It's an interesting question and discussion, but not one I'm likely to be issuing predictions in.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Oswalt, Halliday, and Hudson are all at about equal points in their careers. I think Halliday has been the best at his peak, but I view Oswalt as the one who will end up with the most impressive career, with Hudson second.

Halliday has had a major injury; that's always a concern.

I don't see Sabathia making the HOF; he's too fat, and he'll get hurt.

The rest, save for Santana, are too early in their careers. Anything can still happen for them, including Tommy John surgery.

[Senor Octobre]

Wang is empty. All he does is collect wins. He has a slightly above average career ERA and an average WHIP. His K/BB ratio is terrible. Not a Hall candidate.

:laugh Love it. One of the most overrated pitchers in baseball.

[ElHalo]

You're right that Wang has a better chance to get in to the Hall, stupid though it may be. As long as he pitches for the Yankees, and continues to be their ace, he probably has a better shot than most of the other people on here.

I actually think this will be Wang's downfall. I don't think he has a shot at the Hall, but his only real chance is to be seen as the Yanks' ace for a bunch of years. The rotation next year is supposed to be Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy. If Chamberlain is half as good a starter as a reliever, there's a very real chance that Wang could be a number four guy on that staff. So we'll have to see.

[STLCards2]

Chien-Ming Wang – Wang is empty. All he does is collect wins. He has a slightly above average career ERA and an average WHIP. His K/BB ratio is terrible. Not a Hall candidate.
.

I agree that Wang isn't quite as good as his records indicate (due to run support), but he is far from "empty". Yes his WHIP is average (actually about .7 above average), but a huge proportion of those hits represented by whip are singles, due to his monsterous gb/fb ratio. In relation, his HR/9 rate is miniscule, and he induces a rediculous amount of double plays. None of these things are "empty." His ERA is 16% better than league average, and the defense behind him has not had tons to do with that success. However, you are correct when saying he will not be a Hall candidate.

[tearforamariner]

I agree that Wang isn't quite as good as his records indicate (due to run support), but he is far from "empty". Yes his WHIP is average (actually about .7 above average), but a huge proportion of those hits represented by whip are singles, due to his monsterous gb/fb ratio. In relation, his HR/9 rate is miniscule, and he induces a rediculous amount of double plays. None of these things are "empty." His ERA is 16% better than league average, and the defense behind him has not had tons to do with that success. However, you are correct when saying he will not be a Hall candidate.

What I meant was that his wins were empty, and not representative of his talent level, which is average.

Also, I just checked. The AL's WHIP is 1.41, so Wang's is actually better than average.

[ChrisLDuncan]

What I meant was that his wins were empty, and not representative of his talent level, which is average.

Also, I just checked. The AL's WHIP is 1.41, so Wang's is actually better than average.

EW! :o :crazy

[ChrisLDuncan]

Why are Beckett, Sabathia, and Wang on here over Erik Bedard? All four are the same age (27), and Bedard has the highest ERA+. He will also, in all likelihood, become the only one of the four to lead his league in a meaningful category (SO/9). Aside from longetivity, I like his career thus far over any of the other three.

Isn't Sabathia the league leader in IP? He's also the leagues leader in K/BB. He is also the AL leader in VORP for pitchers, Bedard got hurt probably because he was over extending himself to get all those Ks. Also CC has the same ERA as Bedard over 700 more innings, also a lower WHIP, also consider that Bedard pitches at a park that is larger than most international airports I would say that CC has the no questions asked edge over Bedard. It's bad enough when you were trying to convince everyone that Bedard was better than a Triple Crown winner last season, now you're reaching way too far. What exactly is there to like about Bedard's career more than Sabathia's?

[ChrisLDuncan]

What do you guys think of Chris Carpenter's chances? He's had a few great years, by NL standards, what does he need to do to get in?

[Chickazoola]

What do you guys think of Chris Carpenter's chances? He's had a few great years, by NL standards, what does he need to do to get in?

He needs alot more of them, and based on his injury history I don't have much faith in him.

He also was pretty inconsistent early on and that hurts his chances.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I don't see Sabathia making the HOF; he's too fat, and he'll get hurt.


What does being too fat have to do with anything? There have been plenty of fat boys that had long careers, Early Wynn, Gaylord Perry, and Cy Young, David Welsl, Rick Reuschel, and Fat Freddy Fitzsimmons to name a few...

[Chickazoola]

What does being too fat have to do with anything? There have been plenty of fat boys that had long careers, Early Wynn, Gaylord Perry, and Cy Young, David Welsl, Rick Reuschel, and Fat Freddy Fitzsimmons to name a few...

Add Mickey Lolich, and Sid Fernandez to that list.

And Cy Young looks pretty husky in his later days.

[jalbright]

What does being too fat have to do with anything? There have been plenty of fat boys that had long careers, Early Wynn, Gaylord Perry, and Cy Young, David Welsl, Rick Reuschel, and Fat Freddy Fitzsimmons to name a few...

Being fat may not automatically disqualify a player from a long career, but it isn't helpful in reducing the wear and tear on anybody's body, much less an athlete's. Furthermore, being fat is often a sign the player isn't very serious about conditioning, which is certainly a red flag when looking for longevity.

Jim Albright

[Erik Bedard]

Isn't Sabathia the league leader in IP? He's also the leagues leader in K/BB. He is also the AL leader in VORP for pitchers, Bedard got hurt probably because he was over extending himself to get all those Ks. Also CC has the same ERA as Bedard over 700 more innings, also a lower WHIP, also consider that Bedard pitches at a park that is larger than most international airports I would say that CC has the no questions asked edge over Bedard. It's bad enough when you were trying to convince everyone that Bedard was better than a Triple Crown winner last season, now you're reaching way too far. What exactly is there to like about Bedard's career more than Sabathia's?

I have never said Bedard was better than Santana. I have, however, often said that he's the second-best lefty in the AL, which can definitely be justified.

Remember, I did say "besides longetivity", so the point about 700 more IP doesn't really have much validity. When adding it in, perhaps Sabathia has a better career than Bedard. But going solely on rate stats, I like Bedard's higher ERA+ over Sabathia's lower ERA. Sabathia does have the lower WHIP, and flat-out doesn't walk anybody. Bedard still has the better SO/9, and his '07 season (through August) is better than any Sabathia's ever had.

P.S: Camden Yards is actually more of a hitter's park than Jacobs Field.

P.P.S: Bedard's injury was a strained oblique. His K's were coming largely from the emergence of his curveball, which wouldn't do anything to his oblique. At least I don't think so.

[willshad]

Why are Beckett, Sabathia, and Wang on here over Erik Bedard? All four are the same age (27), and Bedard has the highest ERA+. He will also, in all likelihood, become the only one of the four to lead his league in a meaningful category (SO/9). Aside from longetivity, I like his career thus far over any of the other three.

am i missing something? I looked up bedard, and it says he's 28 and has a lifetime record of 40-34. he does seem to be improving each year, but to compare him to any of the others on this list is stupid. He has no shot at the hall unless he has a Randy johnson like career after age 29.

[willshad]

I’ve ranked the players by age and given my input on each of them:

Dontrelle Willis – Willis tanked. He was an overrated rookie who put up a great sophomore campaign. Since then, he has followed it up by one mediocre season and another horrible one. Definitely hurt his chances this year.
Carlos Zambrano – A friend of mine nicknamed Zambrano “the Internal Train-Wreck”. Of the pitchers here, only Willis has done more to weaken his Hall chances than Zambrano this year.
Jake Peavy – Third youngest and definitely the best of the under-28 guys. Has a good shot if he keeps it up.
C.C. Sabathia – Possibly has the best shot of this group of reaching 300 wins, and this may be his only shot at the Hall.
Josh Beckett – Beckett is talented, but early injury problems may have destroyed his hall chances.
Chien-Ming Wang – Wang is empty. All he does is collect wins. He has a slightly above average career ERA and an average WHIP. His K/BB ratio is terrible. Not a Hall candidate.
Brandon Webb – The last five years have been pretty good for Webb overall, but the voters like win-loss records, and Webb’s is only 9 games above .500 right now. He has a ways to go before he can sway the voters.
Roy Oswalt – Also has a fair shot at reaching 300 wins. My pick for the best in this group, he’s strung together 7 pretty darn good seasons to start off his career.
Roy Halladay – Halladay has been pretty good up to this point in his career, but I faer he has been over-used and his arm can’t last much longer.
Tim Hudson – Hudson has a shot, but only if he can return to Oakland form.


You underrate Zambranos season...he went 18-13 with a 3.95 ERA..inconsistent, but having an 18 win season in this day and age certainly isnt going to hurt one's hall of fame chances..plus he had another good hitting season. Ill agree on Willis, though...he appears to be headed for a Dwight Gooden-like career track..great rookie season..peaking very young and winning the cy young..then all downhill.

[Chickazoola]

You underrate Zambranos season...he went 18-13 with a 3.95 ERA..inconsistent, but having an 18 win season in this day and age certainly isnt going to hurt one's hall of fame chances..plus he had another good hitting season. Ill agree on Willis, though...he appears to be headed for a Dwight Gooden-like career track..great rookie season..peaking very young and winning the cy young..then all downhill.

I don't think it's fair to compare Gooden to Willis. Gooden was dominant and put up historic seasons early in his career, and faded into averageness by the mid nineties, due to injuries and off-field issues. Willis' best years are not particularly exceptional and his fade has been fairly predictable due to his low strike out rate and poor control.

[nerfan]

Hall voters like strikeouts as well. And that's definitely Bedard's strong suit.

You're right that Wang has a better chance to get in to the Hall, stupid though it may be. As long as he pitches for the Yankees, and continues to be their ace, he probably has a better shot than most of the other people on here. However, projecting to the future, Bedard and Beckett have had the best seasons this year, which bodes well for future years. Wang has had a very Chien-Ming Wang year, lots of wins but only a bit above average everywhere else. Sabathia has been better than Wang this year as well, though not on a level with Beckett and Bedard.

I seriously think that Bedard could have a Randy Johnson-esque career. Maybe he won't get to 300 wins, but I will bet that he will have a better career than CC Sabathia. In addition to Bedard's rapidly emerging curveball, he also features a 94 MPH fastball. He broke the single-season strikeout record on the 26th of August. He had 10.93 K/9. There are 8 pitchers ahead of him. 4 are Hall of Famers, or probable Hall of Famers. 3 had Hall of Fame level talent (Gooden, Kerry Wood, Oliver Perez.) And the last is Hideo Nomo.

[Gregory Pratt]

I seriously think that Bedard could have a Randy Johnson-esque career. Maybe he won't get to 300 wins, but I will bet that he will have a better career than CC Sabathia. In addition to Bedard's rapidly emerging curveball, he also features a 94 MPH fastball. He broke the single-season strikeout record on the 26th of August. He had 10.93 K/9. There are 8 pitchers ahead of him. 4 are Hall of Famers, or probable Hall of Famers. 3 had Hall of Fame level talent (Gooden, Kerry Wood, Oliver Perez.) And the last is Hideo Nomo.

Umm, Bedard hasn't broken any single-season strikeout records. Has he?

2. Why isn't Mark Buehrle anywhere on the radar?

3. Halladay is Halladay. Not Halliday. And he's got a great chance, staying moderately healthy.

[willshad]

Umm, Bedard hasn't broken any single-season strikeout records. Has he?

2. Why isn't Mark Buehrle anywhere on the radar?

3. Halladay is Halladay. Not Halliday. And he's got a great chance, staying moderately healthy.

Buehrle to me is in the same group as Zito, Mulder, and Carpenter..quailty pitchers who are a notch below the others i mentioned...mostly because theyve had a couple of subpar seasons and they need to show they can bounce back. its far easier for a pitcher to suddenly lose it than it is for him to come back strong. the others are more consistent i think.

[Gregory Pratt]

Uh, Buehrle has bounced back from both of his bad (half)seasons, thank you very much, and he's much better than Zito, especially since 2003; Mulder is good, but he's a huge injury now and I'm not sure he was better than Buehrle. As for Carpenter, well, Carpenter's one of the best pitchers in baseball, healthy.

You want to talk consistency with Buehrle? Always gives you a lot of quality innings and even in his only bad stretches he's still given some innings. If there is anything Buehrle is, it's consistent.

Shoot.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

One note on Sabathia. Through the 2005 season his career ERA+ is 106. That's just average. But he has put up a 140 ERA+ in '06 and a 143 ERA+ in '07. That seems to be a clear indication that Sabathia has taken his pitching to another level. Now we shall see if he can keep that up. I wouldn't be surprised if he has even better seasons.

[stejay]

Sabathia and Zambrano, I think. They have the best shot, but that doesn't mean that they would get in however...........

[Erik Bedard]

am i missing something? I looked up bedard, and it says he's 28 and has a lifetime record of 40-34. he does seem to be improving each year, but to compare him to any of the others on this list is stupid. He has no shot at the hall unless he has a Randy johnson like career after age 29.

Really. Comparing him to Chien-Ming Wang is "stupid"? Unless you mean that Wang is nowhere near the talent of Bedard, then you're wrong.

I seriously think that Bedard could have a Randy Johnson-esque career. Maybe he won't get to 300 wins, but I will bet that he will have a better career than CC Sabathia. In addition to Bedard's rapidly emerging curveball, he also features a 94 MPH fastball. He broke the single-season strikeout record on the 26th of August. He had 10.93 K/9. There are 8 pitchers ahead of him. 4 are Hall of Famers, or probable Hall of Famers. 3 had Hall of Fame level talent (Gooden, Kerry Wood, Oliver Perez.) And the last is Hideo Nomo.

I've seen Bedard listed many times as having the best curveball in the AL. He also, as you mentioned, throws his fastball in the mid-90's. And his changeup is nothing to sniff at either. The dude is in the top five in the game as far as stuff goes, right up there with Santana, Peavy, Sabathia, etc.

Umm, Bedard hasn't broken any single-season strikeout records. Has he?

He broke the Orioles' single-season record. That's the only one I know of.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Sabathia and Peavy won their Cy Young Awards. They took big steps forward this year.

Peavy looks like a kid who'll go the distance as a star pitcher, along with Santana. I like Peavy best among guys with 4 years or less into their careers.

[willshad]

[QUOTE=Erik Bedard;1052822]Really. Comparing him to Chien-Ming Wang is "stupid"? Unless you mean that Wang is nowhere near the talent of Bedard, then you're wrong.



I've seen Bedard listed many times as having the best curveball in the AL. He also, as you mentioned, throws his fastball in the mid-90's. And his changeup is nothing to sniff at either. The dude is in the top five in the game as far as stuff goes, right up there with Santana, Peavy, Sabathia, etc.



He broke the Orioles' single-season record. That's the only one I know of.[/QUOT


Wang has a career record of 46-18. bedard has a career record of 40-34. Id say at this point its safe to say that Wang is on more of a hall of fame path than Bedard. And yes I think its stupid to compare a pitcher with a .719 lifetime winning percentage to one with a .541 lifetime winning percentage.

[Brad Harris]

:laugh Love it. One of the most overrated pitchers in baseball.

If he's the answer to some meaningless trivia question (like most wins in a decade) and he has a memorable World Series performance some year, he'll be a popular candidate. Jack Morris fans will need someone to support once their guy's 15 years on the ballot are up. :laugh

[Brad Harris]

Wang has a career record of 46-18. bedard has a career record of 40-34. Id say at this point its safe to say that Wang is on more of a hall of fame path than Bedard. And yes I think its stupid to compare a pitcher with a .719 lifetime winning percentage to one with a .541 lifetime winning percentage.

Bedard has fashioned a .541 winning percentage while pitching for a team with a .441 winning percentage over that time, the .100 difference represents a 23% improvement over his team's percentage.

Wang's .719 winning percentage looks nice on the surface, but the Yankees had a .588 winning percentage over that time, giving Wang a .131 point advantage, but it still boils down to a 22% improvement over his team.

In context, Wang and Bedard's winning percentages are equally valuable accomplishments, given the team's they pitched for. There's also the thought that Bedard's winning percentage has been fashioned over 32 more games (124.3 innings) than Wang.

So it's not as if the two aren't comparable after all. ;)

[willshad]

Bedard has fashioned a .541 winning percentage while pitching for a team with a .441 winning percentage over that time, the .100 difference represents a 23% improvement over his team's percentage.

Wang's .719 winning percentage looks nice on the surface, but the Yankees had a .588 winning percentage over that time, giving Wang a .131 point advantage, but it still boils down to a 22% improvement over his team.

In context, Wang and Bedard's winning percentages are equally valuable accomplishments, given the team's they pitched for. There's also the thought that Bedard's winning percentage has been fashioned over 32 more games (124.3 innings) than Wang.

So it's not as if the two aren't comparable after all. ;)

I agree with you..but the thread is about who has the best shot at the hall, and fairly or not, hall voters go by winning percentage. So, unless either or both guys get traded, Id have to say that Wang has a much better shot at the hall of fame. More likely he will end up being this generation's Andy Pettite, but if he has another 10 years like the last 2, then he has a shot.

[Bravesfan1984]

leaving Joahann Santana out of it, which young pitcher(s) do you think has a shot at the hall? There seem to be a bunch of young guys who are all about equal, with none really breaking from the pack.

- Carlos Zambrano
- Jake Peavy
- Roy Halliday
- Tim Hudson ( a bit older, but still good)
- Roy Oswalt
- Dontrelle Wilis (having a terrible year, but still young)
- CC Sabithia
- Brandon Webb
- Josh Beckett
- Chien-ming Wang

I would say the ones with the best chances are Halliday and Roy Oswalt

[Mike90]

Both Halladay and Oswalt are very close to HOF careers. Oswalt has two 20-win seasons, an ERA title and 5 top-5 Cy Young finishes through his first 8 seasons. Last season was off by his standards, and he still pitched 209 innings with a 120 ERA+. They're both great pitchers.

Peavy has already had 4 seasons with an ERA+ of 134 or better, including his unanimous Cy Young season. He averages a strikeout per inning and will probably be a HOFer if he doesn't suffer a serious injury.

[Allie Fox]

Is it still too soon to consider Scott Kazmir? He's been fairly consistent over the past four seasons and now that the Rays are starting to pick up a bit of steam from their youth and veteran mix, his game should pick up as well.

[henrich]

I like Brandon Webb, Oswalt, Halladay and Zambrano as the future thread discussions in 5 years.

[gwynnfan]

Is it still too soon to consider Scott Kazmir? He's been fairly consistent over the past four seasons and now that the Rays are starting to pick up a bit of steam from their youth and veteran mix, his game should pick up as well.

Its who can last. C.C. has a good start but he could turn into David Wells. Peavy needs goes to a contender to pile up enough wins and he could pitch for a long time. Kazmir is only 24 and needs to pitch more innings in a game to pile up enough wins. He has the stuff when he is on, but walks to many and gets hit hard when he is off. I think a new pitching coach could help him get healthy.

[dgarza]

Like it or not, Francisco Rodriguez should be in this discussion.

[Fuzzy Bear]

After this year, I'd say Halliday has the best shot at the HOF. He's not there yet, however.

[Bravesfan1984]

Like it or not, Francisco Rodriguez should be in this discussion.

He is there but even he keeps this up I think it wil be hard to get in. There is a reluctance to vote closers and recently there has been a surge of closers.

[Captain Cold Nose]

There is a reluctance to vote closers and recently there has been a surge of closers.


Which is it?