PDA

View Full Version : Mock 1950 BBWAA Election


Brad Harris
09-09-2007, 06:58 PM
Hall of Fame Inductees - by position
Pitchers - Grover Cleveland Alexander, Mordecai Brown, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Stan Coveleski, Red Faber, Pud Galvin, Clark Griffith, Lefty Grove, Carl Hubbell, Walter Johnson, Tim Keefe, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Kid Nichols, Eddie Plank, Charley Radbourn, Eppa Rixey, Amos Rusie, Al Spalding, Dazzy Vance, Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh, Cy Young

Catchers -Charlie Bennett, Roger Bresnahan, Mickey Cochrane, Buck Ewing, Gabby Hartnett, Deacon White

First Basemen - Cap Anson, Dan Brouthers, Frank Chance, Roger Connor, Lou Gehrig, George Sisler, Joe Start, Harry Stovey, Bill Terry

Second Basemen - Ross Barnes, Cupid Childs, Eddie Collins, Larry Doyle, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, Bid McPhee

Third Basemen - Frank Baker, Jimmy Collins, John McGraw, Pie Traynor

Shortstops - Bill Dahlen, George Davis, Jack Glasscock, Hughie Jennings, Dickey Pearce, Joe Sewell, Honus Wagner, Bobby Wallace, John M. Ward, George Wright

Outfielders - Earl Averill, Jesse Burkett, Max Carey, Fred Clarke, Ty Cobb, Sam Crawford, Ed Delahanty, Hugh Duffy, Elmer Flick, George Gore, Goose Goslin, Billy Hamilton, Harry Heilmann, Paul Hines, Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley, King Kelly, Sherry Magee, Jim O'Rourke, Edd Roush, Babe Ruth, Tris Speaker, Sam Thompson, George Van Haltren, Zack Wheat, Harry Wright

Hall of Fame Inductees - by induction
1936 - Grover Cleveland Alexander, Cap Anson, Dan Brouthers, John Clarkson, Ty Cobb, Eddie Collins, Roger Connor, Ed Delahanty, Buck Ewing, Billy Hamilton, Walter Johnson, Nap Lajoie, Christy Mathewson, Tris Speaker, Honus Wagner, Cy Young

1937 - Frank Baker, Mordecai Brown, Sam Crawford, George Davis, Tim Keefe, King Kelly, Kid Nichols, Jim O'Rourke, Eddie Plank, Ed Walsh

1938 - Jesse Burkett, Fred Clarke, Jimmy Collins, Stan Coveleski, Bill Dahlen, Harry Heilmann, Sherry Magee, Charley Radbourn, Amos Rusie, John Ward

1939 - Red Faber, Willie Keeler, Joe McGinnity, George Sisler, Rube Waddell, Zack Wheat, Deacon White, George Wright

1940 - Roger Bresnahan, Max Carey, Pud Galvin, Paul Hines, Joe Kelley, Al Spalding

1941 - Hugh Duffy, Jack Glasscock, George Gore, Hughie Jennings, Bid McPhee, Babe Ruth, Dazzy Vance

1942 - Charlie Bennett, Clark Griffith, John McGraw, Harry Stovey, Bill Terry, Sam Thompson, George Van Haltren

1943 - Bob Caruthers, Mickey Cochrane, Frankie Frisch, Rogers Hornsby, Joe Start

1944 - Goose Goslin, Dickey Pearce, Eppa Rixey, Edd Roush, Pie Traynor, Bobby Wallace

1945 - Lou Gehrig, Joe Sewell

1946 - Elmer Flick

1947 - Ross Barnes, Larry Doyle, Lefty Grove, Harry Wright

1948 - Earl Averill, Frank Chance, Charlie Gehringer, Gabby Hartnett

1949 - Cupid Childs, Carl Hubbell
Italics indicates a Veterans Committee selection

Rules

Only players listed on the ballot are eligible for election.
Players appearing on the ballot last played anywhere from 1920-1944.
Players named on 75% of the ballots will be inducted.
A voter may vote for 0-10 candidates.
There is no ineligibility rule for “banned” players. Nor is there a minimum 10 seasons played rule for eligibility.
Candidates remain on the ballot for 25 years before being permanently dropped.
The 5-year wait is in effect.
Retain the “no automatic induction” rule.
Eligibility rules are not waived in case of premature death of a candidate.
Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
Each annual election is open for ballot submission Monday to Friday. Results are announced over each weekend.
Anyone may vote by posting their ballot in the thread.


1950 BBWAA Ballot
Pitchers – Babe Adams, Jim Bagby, Chief Bender, Joe Bush, Eddie Cicotte, Jack Coombs, Wilbur Cooper, Wes Ferrell, Freddie Fitzsimmons, Larry French, Lefty Gomez, Burleigh Grimes, Jesse Haines, Waite Hoyt, Sam Jones, Dutch Leonard, Dolf Luque, Firpo Marberry, Rube Marquard, Carl Mays, Jack Quinn, Herb Pennock, Eddie Rommel, Charlie Root, Bob Shawkey, Urban Shocker, Hippo Vaughn, Smokey Joe Wood

Catchers – Bob O'Farrell, Steve O’Neill, Muddy Ruel, Ray Schalk, Wally Schang, Hank Severeid

First Basemen – Lu Blue, Jim Bottomley, George H. Burns, Ripper Collins, Jake Daubert, Jack Fournier, Charlie Grimm, Joe Judge, Willie Kamm, George Kelly, Ed Konetchy, Stuffy McInnis, Fred Merkle, Wally Pipp

Second Basemen – Max Bishop, Johnny Evers, George Grantham, Bucky Harris, Tony Lazzeri, Buddy Myer, Del Pratt

Third Basemen – Jimmy Dykes, Larry Gardner, Heinie Groh, Fred Lindstrom, Red Rolfe, Buck Weaver, Billy Werber

Shortstops – Dave Bancroft, Donie Bush, Art Fletcher, Travis Jackson, Rabbit Maranville, Roger Peckinpaugh, Billy Rogell, Everett Scott, Glenn Wright

Outfielders – Wally Berger, George J. Burns, Earle Combs, Gavvy Cravath, Kiki Cuyler, Chick Hafey, Harry Hooper, Joe Jackson, Baby Doll Jacobson, Heinie Manush, Bob Meusel, Irish Meusel, Clyde Milan, Lefty O'Doul, Carl Reynolds, Sam Rice, Riggs Stephenson, Roy Thomas, Bobby Veach, Cy Williams, Ken Williams, Hack Wilson, Ross Youngs

1950 Additions: Chuck Klein, Pepper Martin and Al Simmons were added to the ballot. Each retired following the 1944 season.

1950 Drop-Offs: Jack Barry and Hal Chase were removed from the ballot. Each retired prior to the 1920 season.

Last Year's Ballots (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=67221)

Last Year's Leading Vote Recipients
70% Sam Rice
64% Lefty Gomez, Heinie Groh
52% Burleigh Grimes, Carl Mays
47% Wes Ferrell, Joe Jackson
41% Wally Schang
35% Kiki Cuyler
29% Wally Berger
23% Chief Bender, Jim Bottomley, Gavvy Cravath, Rabbit Maranville, Hack Wilson
17% Ray Schalk
11% Earle Combs, Johnny Evers, Tony Lazzeri, Buddy Myer, Lefty O'Doul, Joe Wood
5% George J. Burns, Wilbur Cooper, Sam Jones, Heinie Manush, Firpo Marberry, Everett Scott, Urban Shocker, Bobby Veach, Cy Williams

Ballots are due before Saturday, September 15.

Feel free to ask any questions here. Also, if there is an eligible player who does not appear on this ballot who you think merits consideration, please let me know and he may be added to future ballots.

Brad Harris
09-09-2007, 07:00 PM
Wally Berger
Gavvy Cravath
Kiki Cuyler
Wes Ferrell
Burleigh Grimes
Heinie Groh
Carl Mays
Sam Rice
Wally Schang
Al Simmons

Windy City Fan
09-09-2007, 10:36 PM
Chief Bender
Gavvy Cravath
Wes Ferrell
Heinie Groh
Rabbit Maranville
Lefty O’Doul
Al Simmons

BlueBlood
09-09-2007, 11:23 PM
Chief Bender
Jim Bottomley
Earle Combs
Kiki Cuyler
Lefty Gomez
Joe Jackson
Lefty O'Doul
Sam Rice
Al Simmons
Hack Wilson

leecemark
09-10-2007, 05:40 AM
Wally Berger
Wes Ferrell
Burleigh Grimes
Henie Groh
Eabbit Maranville
Wally Schang
Al Simmons

jalbright
09-10-2007, 06:54 AM
1. Wes Ferrell
2. Burleigh Grimes
3. Heinie Groh
4. Carl Mays
5. Sam Rice
6. Al Simmons

Captain Cold Nose
09-10-2007, 07:04 AM
KiKi Cuyler
Wes Ferrell
Burleigh Grimes
Heinie Groh
Lefty Gomez
Carl Mays
Sam Rice
Al Simmons

Freakshow
09-10-2007, 08:04 AM
G. Cravath - RF
W. Ferrell - P
B. Grimes - P
H. Groh - 3B
J. Jackson - LF
T. Lazzeri - 2B
Maranville - SS
C. Mays - P
W. Schang - C
A. Simmons - LF

DoubleX
09-10-2007, 08:27 AM
Wally Berger
Lefty Gomez
Heinie Groh
Sam Rice
Wally Schang
Al Simmons

We need to get a few more votes for Heinie Groh.

MadHatter
09-10-2007, 09:48 AM
Lefty Gomez
Sam Jones
Carl Mays
Smokey Joe Wood
Larry Gardner
Travis Jackson
Rabbit Maranville
Harry Hooper
Joe Jackson
Sam Rice

Baseball Guru
09-10-2007, 10:55 AM
Chief Bender
Jim Bottomley
Kiki Cuyler
Lefty Gomez
Joe Jackson
Chuck Klein
Sam Rice
Al Simmons
Smokey Joe Wood

KCGHOST
09-10-2007, 12:32 PM
Lefty Gomez
Heinie Groh
Chuck Klein
Urban Shocker
Al Simmons

dgarza
09-10-2007, 04:07 PM
Jim Bottomley
Kiki Cuyler
Lefty Gomez
Joe Jackson
Chuck Klein
Heinie Manush
Sam Rice
Al Simmons
Bobby Veach
Hack Wilson

Dogdaze
09-12-2007, 01:18 PM
Chief Bender
Jim Bottomley
Earle Combs
Lefty Gomez
Joe Jackson
Chuck Klein
Sam Rice
Ray Schalk
Al Simmons
Hack Wilson

Cougar
09-12-2007, 02:02 PM
Sam Rice
Wally Schang
Carl Mays
Burleigh Grimes
Gavvy Cravath
Lefty O'Doul
Al Simmons
Heinie Groh
Lefty Gomez
Kiki Cuyler

Notes:

(1) I've finally come around sufficiently on Groh to support him...I still think he's being overrated in some quarters.

(2) It's hard for me to support Berger over Cy Williams, who I feel pretty strongly had the better career. One of these days I'll start a thread on this...Cy Williams was Duke Snider with half his career in the deadball era.

leecemark
09-12-2007, 08:50 PM
--Williams probably would have been a Hall of Famer had he been born 10 years later, but he really didn't have much of a career in the deadball "half". Although he debuted in 1912, he only played as many as 140 games once before 1920. His skills weren't really appreciated until the ball got lively and he was already 32 in 1920. Well it was partly they weren't apprieciated and partly they just weren't as valuable. He only beat his career 125 OPS+ once in the 8 seasons he played in the deadball era - and his 2nd best season was only at 112.

Cougar
09-12-2007, 09:22 PM
Mark -- Cy W. led the league in HR twice in the dead ball era (extending it through 1920...that's a bit of a gray area season), and came in 2nd twice and 3rd once. Second and third place finishes ought to be "darker gray" than a 7th or 10th place finish, I think you'll agree. Anyway, that's a heck of a run.

Then, in the live ball era, starting in 1921, he started hitting more HR, as everyone else, but he remained in the upper reaches of the leaderboard: two more 1st place finishes, one 2nd, three 3rds.

Combined, he led the league in HR four times, came in 2nd three times, and came in 3rd four times -- that's in a 13 year period! (Blended in is a 7th and one off the leaderboard.) I can't think of another player who had such a run on the HR leaderboard, while playing a premium defensive position well (CF) and hitting for a (sometimes more than) respectable average who's not in the Hall. But of course almost everyone like that played their whole career in the live ball era.

Also, I think there's a statistical problem in comparing his OPS+ scores in the teens to the twenties...heteroscedascity (if I spelled that right). OPS+ is basically a measure of how much the player's performance varies from the league average, but the variance in league performance is going to be much bigger in the live ball era than the dead ball era. Hence, blending the different variances together (as we do in his career OPS+) will lead to an overestimation of his late career performance and an underestimation of his early career performance.

(I think...it's late at night and I'm tired.)

In terms of his early career -- he definitely missed a lot of time in his early seasons...I don't really know why. The fact that he was among the league leaders every year despite that is impressive, even in a left-handed way. He also lasted forever, so it cuts both ways. Wally Berger, our point of comparison, started like a house on fire at 24, but was done as a full time player after 30 and out of baseball by 34. It was harder to be durable back then...if either one of these guys had been, they'd probably be slam dunk HOFers. As is, they're in the gray area.

Erik Bedard
09-13-2007, 08:00 PM
Gavvy Cravath
Wes Ferrell
Lefty Gomez
Heinie Groh
Burleigh Grimes
Joe Jackson
Chuck Klein
Rabbit Maranville
Carl Mays
Al Simmons

Brad Harris
09-15-2007, 12:33 AM
Congratulations to Al Simmons on his election to the Hall of Fame!

FULL RESULTS
93% Al Simmons
-----------------------------
68% Heinie Groh
62% Lefty Gomez, Sam Rice
50% Wes Ferrell, Burleigh Grimes, Carl Mays
43% Joe Jackson
37% Kiki Cuyler
31% Gavvy Cravath, Chuck Klein, Rabbit Maranville, Wally Schang
25% Chief Bender, Wally Beger, Jim Bottomley
18% Lefty O'Doul, Hack Wilson
12% Earle Combs, Joe Wood
6% George J. Burns, Wilbur Cooper, Larry Gardner, Harry Hooper, Travis Jackson, Sam Jones, Tony Lazzeri, Heinie Manush, Ray Schalk, Urban Shocker, Bobby Veach