George Burns

[Cowtipper]

What do you guys think about George Burns? He's got the grey ink, but I'm not sure what else. Do you think he should be in the Hall?

[Brad Harris]

What do you guys think about George Burns? He's got the grey ink, but I'm not sure what else. Do you think he should be in the Hall?

Good, not great hitter in an era already overrepresented in Cooperstown by similar players. He doesn't belong.

[BlueBlood]

Way behind the rest of the elite pack overall in the measurements on BR...a player who was quite good, if occasionally great.

[KCGHOST]

I don't know how you can consider a guy who was just an average hitter for his position.

[Freakshow]

Which one?

George J. Burns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnsge01.shtml)
George H. Burns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnsge02.shtml)
George Burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_burns)

[The Commissioner]

Which one?

George J. Burns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnsge01.shtml)
George H. Burns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnsge02.shtml)
George Burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_burns)

Mr. Birnbaum's appearance in the "Sgt. Pepper's" Bee Gee's disaster rules him out from ever being inducted into any Hall of Fame as far as I'm concerned. Say good night, Mark Grace.

[PVNICK]

Which one?

George J. Burns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnsge01.shtml)
George H. Burns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnsge02.shtml)
George Burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_burns)

Ditto. The Giants LF, high BB and runs scored or the AL 1B with a good season every three to four years with an assortment of teams?

[dgarza]

What do you guys think about George Burns? He's got the grey ink, but I'm not sure what else. Grey hair?

Going by the Gray Ink comment, I assumed we were talking about the LFer.
I think the LFer has the better case anyway.
He also has the Black Ink as well, if you're looking for that.

[soberdennis]

What do you mean he doesn't belong in the HOF? He was one of the greatest comedians ever.:laugh :laugh
Seriously, I voted maybe. His lifetime BA of .307 was better than many who are in. But the list of similar batters only lists one who is in the HOF. He probably is at best borderline.

[HDH]

The right handed hitting LF for John McGraw's Giants was one of the greatest defensive LF all time. George Burns career spans the 1910s predominantly. However, I don't think that his lifetime .287 and 2077 hits warrant HOF consideration. The only consideration that may make sense is that he could be elected to the HOF for defensive greatness. I never heard that, however.

Athough he's one of the American League's best 1B in the same period, right handed hitting 1B Tioga George Burns wasn't great defensively. Again, I don't think his lifetime .307 and 2018 hits warrant HOF consideration either. He had only two great seasons. I do think he's one of the greatest 6-7 lineup players ever.

[jalbright]

No George Burns is enshrined in Cooperstown.

[AG2004]

What do you guys think about George Burns? He's got the grey ink, but I'm not sure what else. Do you think he should be in the Hall?

There's the black ink, of course. George J. Burns (the LF) also has three seasons with 30+ win shares, and ten All-Star-type seasons (20+ win shares), which are both good signs. He had 290 career WS, 97 in his best three seasons, and 138 in his best five consecutive seasons. However, if you adjust for the short seasons of 1918 and 1919, he's up to 100 in his best three seasons, and 147 in his best five consecutive seasons. Those win share totals aren't automatic "induct me" marks for OF, but they aren't automatic "reject me" or "mistake" levels, either.

Way behind the rest of the elite pack overall in the measurements on BR...a player who was quite good, if occasionally great.

The right handed hitting LF for John McGraw's Giants was one of the greatest defensive LF all time. George Burns career spans the 1910s predominantly. However, I don't think that his lifetime .287 and 2077 hits warrant HOF consideration. The only consideration that may make sense is that he could be elected to the HOF for defensive greatness. I never heard that, however.


I'm not sure you're fully considering context. Burns' best years were 1914-1920, and (as HDH notes) those were deadball years. He led the NL in runs scored in five of those years, was second once, and fourth in the remaining year. Over those seven years, the Giants were playing in the best pitcher's park in the NL, so it was more difficult for Burns and his teammates to gather ink points (or score runs) than it was for players on most other teams to do so. That seven-year span helps Burns' case.

While I was discussing Larry Doyle in another thread, I noted that Doyle may have led NL position players in win shares over the 1910-1919 decade (with 225 total), but Burns led NL position players over the 1913-1922 decade (256 total). By itself, that fact doesn't make Burns worthy of the Hall of Fame. But I have to say Burns has at least a serious case for consideration for the Hall of Fame, and I'll have to make up a more detailed evaluation for him over the next few days.

[Seattle1]

http://waiteswebworld.com/oldsite/burns1c.jpg

[penneyAA]

He played ball ,too?That guy did everything.Say good night, Gracie.