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View Full Version : BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: Final Run-off


Freakshow
08-27-2007, 09:50 AM
Welcome to Baseball Fever's Mock HOF VC Black Baseball Players election Final Run-off. This follows the 12 elections in the project to conduct Hall of Fame VC special elections from 1995-2006. The goal of this election is to identify the deserving hall of famers from the remaining candidate list.

This post will provide two things:

1) The Format and Rules

2) A Guide for the Run-off Election

Format and Rules
- In 1995, the Hall decided to begin holding a special election each year to elect one player from black baseball. Non-players were apparently not being considered at this time. Players whose primary contribution was off the field, such as Sol White and Buck O’Neil, were apparently not included. (The HOF VC never published an actual ballot for these special elections, and the results of their voting were not compiled for public consumption.) The original plan was to do this for five years, which was extended for two more. Here is who the Hall elected:

1995: Leon Day
1996: Bill Foster
1997: Willie Wells
1998: Bullet Joe Rogan
1999: Smokey Joe Williams
2000: Turkey Stearnes
2001: Hilton Smith

Five years later, in 2006, the special committee on African-American baseball elected twelve more players to the Hall: Frank Grant, Pete Hill, Jose Mendez, Louis Santop, Ben Taylor, Ray Brown, Willard Brown, Andy Cooper, Biz Mackey, Mule Suttles, Cristobal Torriente and Jud Wilson.

- We will have a 15-player ballot for this final election. These players received more than 20% support in at least one of the 12 elections in this project, meaning the electorate has identified them as viable candidates.

- Voters may vote for as many players as they like, but you must list at least five. This is an attempt to have our total number of electees be consistent with results of the Cooperstown HOF, the BBFHOF and the Hall of Merit.

- We will enshrine all players who receive at least 75% support in this runoff election.

- This thread is also meant to be a discussion thread, so please feel free to stump for and/or against players.

- When figuring a candidate’s worthiness, everything counts, the sum of their lifetime in baseball.

- The election will close two weeks after it starts.

- IMPORTANT: There is some concern about voters defrauding this process by voting with multiple screen names. First, please don't as there is really no point and it takes the fun out of this which is to see how we come out, more than it being a heated competition to get your player elected. Nevertheless, to take precaution against the possibility of a voter abusing the process, votes will be made public, so if we see unfamiliar screen names casting similar ballots, we'll see cause for concern, and if the concern proves to be founded, some form of punitive action could follow. So basically, ONE PERSON = ONE BALLOT. Anything else is really just moronic and defeats the purpose.

- MORE IMPORTANT: Remember, this is not an election of the BBF VC; this is not the place to express your personal feelings as to where the line should be drawn for the Hall of Fame. You've gotta support some guys. I am also asking voters to be sensitive to the consensus of who the top candidates are (see chart below) and try to support them. I may even taken the unpleasant step of singling out ballots that are obviously contrary to our aim. Highly idiosyncratic voters will be asked to justify their ballot to avoid having it disqualified.

So, please, no off-the-top-of-my-head ballots. Don’t just cast a contrarian ballot without good reasoning. If that means fewer ballots, that’s fine. I would rather have an informed vote of 10 ballots then a quick-and-dirty vote of 40 ballots. Ballots that are judged to be frivolous or an obstruction to our goal of enshrining the best, will not be counted in the results of the poll. This rule will be more strictly enforced for this election.

If you have no interest or knowledge of Black baseball or think they weren't really playing baseball or you dismiss them out of hand, well, this poll isn't for you; go back to your fanboy team forum and leave this job to the experts.

Black Players Runoff Election Guide
There are many good avenues for researching Black baseball. Jim Albright has developed good resources here at BBF. The Hall of Merit has done groundbreaking work in creating MLE’s for many players. There are also many websites dedicated to promoting and educating people about the Negro leagues.

Top Vote-getters in the 2000-2006 Elections

2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
Joe Williams 81.82% ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------
Bill Foster 54.55% 62.50% ------ ------ ------ ------ ------
Biz Mackey 72.73% 62.50% 91.67% ------ ------ ------ ------
Louis Santop 81.82% 62.50% 66.67% 75.00% ------ ------ ------
Ray Brown 72.73% 62.50% 66.67% 75.00% 100.00% ------ ------
Jud Wilson 63.64% 50.00% 66.67% 62.50% 100.00% 76.92% ------
Willard Brown 54.55% 50.00% 41.67% 62.50% 100.00% 61.54% 71.43%
Jose Mendez 72.73% 62.50% 66.67% 62.50% 100.00% 69.23% 71.43%
Pete Hill 54.55% 62.50% 41.67% 75.00% 100.00% 61.54% 71.43%
John Beckwith 36.36% 37.50% 41.67% 62.50% 80.00% 46.15% 71.43%
Grant Johnson 9.09% 25.00% 8.33% 50.00% 80.00% 38.46% 71.43%
Dick Redding 27.27% 37.50% 41.67% 62.50% 80.00% 53.85% 57.14%
Frank Grant 45.45% 37.50% 25.00% 62.50% 80.00% 46.15% 57.14%
Leon Day 18.18% 12.50% 16.67% 50.00% 60.00% 53.85% 57.14%
Hilton Smith 27.27% 12.50% 33.33% 62.50% 40.00% 53.85% 57.14%
Dobie Moore 27.27% 12.50% 16.67% 50.00% 60.00% 38.46% 57.14%
Perucho Cepeda 0.00% 12.50% 8.33% 25.00% 40.00% 23.08% 42.86%

Disqualified from Runoff Ballot (9)
Andy "Lefty" Cooper -P-
Sam Jethroe -CF-
Dick Lundy -SS-
Oliver "Ghost" Marcell -3B-
Bill Monroe -2B-
Bruce Petway -C-
George "Tubby" Scales -2B-
Charles "Chino" Smith -RF-
Quincy Trouppe -C-

Actual Hall of Famers on this Ballot (6)
Leon Day
Frank Grant
Pete Hill
Jose Mendez
Hilton Smith
Ben Taylor

Members of BBF Hall of Fame on this Ballot (4)
John Beckwith - elected in 49th election
Pete Hill – 49th
Jose Mendez – 48th
Dick Redding – 38th

Members of the Hall of Merit on this Ballot (6)
John Beckwith – elected in 1957
Frank Grant - 1926
Pete Hill - 1927
Grant Johnson - 1925
Jose Mendez - 1985
Dobie Moore - 1991

For previous discussion of this project, see this thread:
Links to the BBF mock HOF elections (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57084)

Which has the links to these threads:
Cooperstown, NY – Spring, 1994
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 1995 (Mule Suttles elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 1996 (Turkey Stearnes elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 1997 (Cristobal Torriente elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 1998 (Bullet Joe Rogan elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 1999 (Willie Wells elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 2000 (Smokey Joe Williams elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 2001 (Bill Foster elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 2002 (Biz Mackey elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 2003 (Louis Santop elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 2004 (Ray Brown elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 2005 (Jud Wilson elected)
BBF Mock VC Black Baseball Players Election: 2006 (Willard Brown elected)

WJackman
08-27-2007, 11:52 AM
I posted this on the "Greatest What If?" thread. It seems appropriate here are well.

From "The Encyclopedia of Negro League Baseball" by Thom Loverro.

New York Giants manager John McGraw wanted Jackman and in a newspaper interview lamented the color barrier that prevented him from signing the pitcher. "I never predict pennants, but I saw a young fellow the other day, and if I had him things would be so much better," McGraw said. When asked by the reporter why he wouldn't try to trade for the player, McGraw replied, "Young man, I wish I could. His name is Jackman, and he's a Negro, but if there wasn't a color line, Jackman could be a regular on any major league team in the United States. That young fellow has the speed and curve for a major league pitcher, but he'd probably be like Babe Ruth. I would probably go crazy deciding whether to use his big bat every day, or have him pitch every four days. Either way he would be a star. I have used Cubans, and some of them were good, too, but this Jackman is the greatest natural, all-around baseball player I ever saw."

Jackman's career numbers, albeit forced to face mostly semi-pro squads among his many games against major and negro leaguers, project out to 800 wins, 150 homers as a batter, 200 shutouts, 250 games with at least 10 strikeouts, and 8,000.

For more, please see the article on Jackman in the latest edition of SABR's The National Pastime.[/QUOTE]

WJackman
08-27-2007, 11:53 AM
8,000 strikeouts.

Freakshow
08-28-2007, 12:01 PM
Classic:

Do you actually think that everyone on this ballot belongs in the Hall of Fame?

Freakshow
09-04-2007, 06:54 AM
More than halfway through this final catch-all election, we're on track to elect six more players to the Hall. Hopefully, we'll get a few more members of our expert electorate to cast a ballot.

Freakshow
09-10-2007, 12:43 PM
Here are the results for the Final Runoff election for excluded Black Baseball players:

Frank Grant 8 100.00% (elected)
Pete Hill 8 100.00% (elected)
Grant Johnson 8 100.00% (elected)
Hilton Smith 8 100.00% (elected)
John Beckwith 7 87.50% (elected)
Jose Mendez 7 87.50% (elected)
Leon Day 5 62.50%
Dobie Moore 5 62.50%
Dick Redding 5 62.50%
Ben Taylor 5 62.50%
Perucho Cepeda 4 50.00%
Alejandro Oms 4 50.00%
Luke Easter 3 37.50%
Spotswood Poles 3 37.50%
Ted Radcliffe 3 37.50%

The voters deemed six more players worthy of enshrinement in the Hall of Fame: Frank Grant, Pete Hill, Grant "Homerun" Johnson, Hilton Smith, John Beckwith and Jose Mendez. Two of these, Johnson and Smith, are not members of the BBF Hall of Fame. One member of the BBF Hall, "Cannonball" Dick Redding, is seen by our electorate here as a mistake of the BBFHOF.

This project elected a total of 18 players to the HOF, adding to the 10 Negro League players elected prior to 1995. This total of 28 players enshrined is one less than the total in Cooperstown.

Our results disagree with the Coop on five players: they see Andy Cooper, Leon Day and Ben Taylor as deserving and we don't; we have Grant Johnson and John Beckwith as deserving and they do not.

Thanks to all who contributed in this project. :clapping Please continue to support us in these BBF mock elections.:twocents: