Tiered HoF Project: Election 11

[Erik Bedard]

Project Description

Here's how it'll work: We will take the list of players currently in the Cooperstown Hall of Fame, as well as the 23 first candidates elected in the Hall of Corrections, which, by my count, numbers 250, and divide it up into "tiers". For example, the very best of the very best would be on the first tier, the next group on the next one, the next group on the next one down, and so on.

Election Format

I will provide a list of ten randomly selected Hall of Famers. The electorate (you guys) will then rate each player on a scale of 1 to 10 based on his Hall worthiness, with one being a total mistake and ten being a no-brainer. The average rating will determine the tier to which each player is assigned. Players with a rating above 9 will be placed on the first tier, 7-9 on the second tier, 5-7 on the third tier, 3-5 on the fourth tier, and below 3 on the fifth tier.

Other Notes


Voting on all ten players on the ballot, while strongly encouraged, is not mandatory.
Voting will last one week.
The ten members of each week's ballot will be randomly selected by me.
Anyone who wishes to help should PM me.


We should end up with something like this when finished:

10's: 2-4%
9's: 4-6%
8's: 6-9%
7's: 12-17%
6's: 12-17%
5's: 10-15%
4's: 10-15%
3's: 9-13%
2's: 8-12%
1's: 6-9%

You can also try and think of it like this:

10 - In the pantheon of greats
9 - Knocking on the pantheon door
8 - First ballot lock
7 - First ballot possible
6 - Solid choice, no debate
5 - Solid choice with some dissenters
4 - Debatable, you would put them in
3 - Debatable, you would not put them in
2 - Clearly not hall material
1 - What were they thinking?

(thanks to CubNZ for the above scale)

So far, the tiers consist of:

Tier 1: Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Cap Anson, Joe Morgan, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Mike Schmidt, Josh Gibson**, Lefty Grove, Jimmie Foxx, Cy Young, Tris Speaker

Tier 2: Steve Carlton, Carl Hubbell, Eddie Murray, Charlie Gehringer, Harmon Killebrew, Tony Gwynn, Bob Feller, Reggie Jackson, Dan Brouthers, Pop Lloyd**, Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Warren Spahn, Kid Nichols, Eddie Mathews, Johnny Bench, Roger Connor, Joe Williams**, Cal Ripken, Carl Yastrzemski, Sandy Koufax, Al Kaline

Tier 3: John Clarkson, Juan Marichal, Ed Walsh, Paul Hines*, Hal Newhouser, Lefty Gomez, Willard Brown**, Lou Boudreau, Chuck Klein, Bobby Grich*, Bill Terry, Billy Williams, Goose Goslin, Hilton Smith**, Rube Waddell, Frankie Frisch, Fred Clarke, Bill Dickey, Bid McPhee, Pie Traynor, Dale Murphy*, Rich Gossage*, Sam Thompson, Lou Brock, George Davis, Cristobal Torriente**, Ted Simmons*

Tier 4: Nellie Fox, Wes Ferrell*, Sherry Magee*, Lou Brock, Joe Gordon*, Leon Day**, Chief Bender, Heinie Manush, Red Ruffing, Rollie Fingers, Joe McGinnity, Ted Lyons, Ernie Lombardi, Alan Trammell*, Red Schoendienst, Edd Roush, Sam Rice, Earle Combs, Rabbit Maranville, Louis Santop**, Burleigh Grimes, Vic Willis, Jim O'Rourke, Elmer Flick, Addie Joss, Joe Kelley

Tier 5: Tony Lazzeri, Jesse Haines, Ray Schalk, Rick Ferrell, Rube Marquard, Judy Johnson**, Kiki Cuyler, Travis Jackson, Joe Tinker

This election will conclude on Monday, September 3rd. The balloting will be on the following ten players, determined randomly by me:

Dick Allen*
Max Carey
Fergie Jenkins
Bill Foster**
Joe Sewell
Ray Schalk
Amos Rusie
Frank Chance
Bob Gibson
Jackie Robinson

[PVNICK]

Dick Allen* 3
Max Carey 4
Fergie Jenkins 6
Bill Foster** 5?
Joe Sewell 3
Ray Schalk 4
Amos Rusie 6
Frank Chance 4
Bob Gibson 9
Jackie Robinson 9

[MadHatter]

Dick Allen 3
Max Carey 5
Fergie Jenkins 5
Bill Foster 4
Joe Sewell 5
Ray Schalk 6
Amos Rusie 6
Frank Chance 5
Bob Gibson 9
Jackie Robinson 9

[dgarza]

Dick Allen - 6
Max Carey - 4
Fergie Jenkins - 5
Bill Foster - ?
Joe Sewell - 3
Ray Schalk - 1
Amos Rusie - 6
Frank Chance - 1
Bob Gibson - 6
Jackie Robinson - 5

[Dogdaze]

Dick Allen* 6
Max Carey 5
Fergie Jenkins 4
Bill Foster** 7 (see below)
Joe Sewell 4
Ray Schalk 4
Amos Rusie 4
Frank Chance 4
Bob Gibson 9
Jackie Robinson 10


I've noted a few placed a ? next to Foster, I'm assuming they don't know much about him, so here is a little info that might help.

Willie or Bill Foster - LHP

According to James A. Riley, The Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues.

W 130, L 54, with 14 wins and 1 loss in the California winter league.

Link: http://www.coe.ksu.edu/nlbemuseum/history/players/fosterw.html

4-1 vs. major-league competition in exhibition games according to Holway.

Willie Foster was one of the greatest left-handed pitcher’s from the Negro Leagues, with a good fastball, devastating change-up, a "12 to 6 o'clock curve". William Hendrick Foster (Rube Foster's half-brother) was an intelligent power pitcher with near-perfect control and a variety of pitches, all delivered with the same fluid motion. Occasionally, he would use a hesitation wind-up. Foster was a stylish lefty in the mold of Warren Spahn.

In 1926 he won 26 consecutive games. He won the last two games 1-0 and 5-0 to win the league championship. In the Black World Series finale, he threw a 1-0 shutout. In 1927 Foster posted a Negro League record of 18-3.

Foster pitched a two-game series against an America League all-star team composed of players from the Tigers, Browns, Indians, and White Sox. He struggled in the first game, but followed with a shutout in the second contest, pitching eight innings of no-hit ball and striking out nine.

He was the leading vote-getter and winning pitcher in the inaugural East-West All-Star Game in 1933. Foster took the mound for the West squad and left with a complete game victory. Again in 1934 Foster represented the American Giants in the all-star game, this time losing a hard-fought 1-0 decision to Satchel Paige.

Willie Foster was elected to Hall of Fame in 1996. He was also elected to the Baseball Think Factories Hall of Merit, link below;
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/hall_of_merit/discussion/bill_foster

"Willie Foster's greatness was that he had this terrific speed and a great, fast-breaking curveball and a drop ball, and he was really a master of the change-of-pace. He could throw you a real fast one and then use the same motion and bring it up a little slower, and then a little slower yet. And then he'd use the same motion again, and Z-zzz. He was really a great pitcher."
- Dave Malarcher (former Negro League player and manager)

Jocko Conlon, a Hall of Fame umpire, regarded Foster comparable to another Hall of Famer, Herb Pennock but said that Foster was a little faster. Conlon added that Foster was "really something to watch."

"If I could paint you white I could get $150,000 for you right now."
- Charlie Gehringer (said to Foster after an exhibition game)

“Willie Foster was the greatest left-hander that I ever played with. He could have made history if he could have played in the Big Leagues."
-Double Duty Radcliffe (Former Negro League player)

"All the years I played, I never got a hit off him. He threw fire."
- Buck Leonard (former Negro league player)

[538280]

Dick Allen* 8
Max Carey 4
Fergie Jenkins 8
Bill Foster** 5
Joe Sewell 3
Ray Schalk 2
Amos Rusie 6
Frank Chance 2
Bob Gibson 9
Jackie Robinson 9

[DoubleX]

Dick Allen* - 6
Max Carey - 4
Fergie Jenkins - 6
Bill Foster** - 5
Joe Sewell - 4
Ray Schalk - 2
Amos Rusie - 5
Frank Chance - 3
Bob Gibson - 9
Jackie Robinson - 10

I have to say that I can't see Jackie Robinson being anything other than a 10. We're talking about Hall of Fame credentials here, not just on the field production, and Robinson is one of the most symbolically important players in the history of the game. Given what Robinson's career represents, in addition to his fine play on the field, I can think of very, very few players for whom the Hall of Fame is a more deserving and appropriate honor than for Jackie Robinson.

[Dogdaze]

I have to say that I can't see Jackie Robinson being anything other than a 10. We're talking about Hall of Fame credentials here, not just on the field production, and Robinson is one of the most symbolically important players in the history of the game. Given what Robinson's career represents, in addition to his fine play on the field, I can think of very, very few players for whom the Hall of Fame is a more deserving and appropriate honor than for Jackie Robinson.

You do have a good point, so I'm changing my vote to 10 for Jackie.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Dick Allen* 7
Max Carey 5
Fergie Jenkins 5
Bill Foster** 5
Joe Sewell 3
Ray Schalk 4
Amos Rusie 6
Frank Chance 2
Bob Gibson 10
Jackie Robinson 9

[STLCards2]

Dick Allen - 7
Max Carey -5
Fergie Jenkins - 7
Bill Foster - 4
Joe Sewell - 4
Ray Schalk - 3
Amos Rusie - 6
Frank Chance - 3
Bob Gibson -9
Jackie Robinson-8

[Erik Bedard]

Dick Allen* - 7
Max Carey - 4
Fergie Jenkins - 7
Bill Foster** - ?
Joe Sewell - 3
Ray Schalk - 3
Amos Rusie - 6
Frank Chance - 5
Bob Gibson - 7
Jackie Robinson - 10

[Windy City Fan]

Dick Allen - 6
Max Carey - 2
Fergie Jenkins - 6
Bill Foster** - 6
Joe Sewell - 3
Ray Schalk - 4
Amos Rusie - 6
Frank Chance - 5
Bob Gibson - 8
Jackie Robinson - 10

[Erik Bedard]

---bump---

[nerfan]

Dick Allen* - 7
Max Carey - 4
Fergie Jenkins - 7
Bill Foster** - 5
Joe Sewell - 3
Ray Schalk - 3
Amos Rusie - 5
Frank Chance - 4
Bob Gibson - 8
Jackie Robinson - 10

[leecemark]

Dick Allen* - 6
Max Carey - 4
Fergie Jenkins - 7
Bill Foster** - 7
Joe Sewell - 5
Ray Schalk - 2
Amos Rusie - 8
Frank Chance - 6
Bob Gibson - 9
Jackie Robinson - 10

[Erik Bedard]

Voting over. I need to take a week off from this due to school starting.