View Full Version : Best Swing Mechanics
Ricky
08-23-2007, 07:35 AM
Who in the majors right now do you think has the best mechanics??
I want to model my swing after someone and I'm looking for input...
I'm thinking either Barry Bonds, Lance Berkman, or Ryan Howard....
FYI I'm a lefty....
Thanks
jbooth
08-23-2007, 07:43 AM
Who in the majors right now do you think has the best mechanics??
I want to model my swing after someone and I'm looking for input...
I'm thinking either Barry Bonds, Lance Berkman, or Ryan Howard....
FYI I'm a lefty....
Thanks
There is no swing better than Barry Bonds'. But, you have to understand the differences between his personal style of setup, versus what he does in the swing.
Chris O'Leary
08-23-2007, 08:13 AM
I'm thinking either Barry Bonds, Lance Berkman, or Ryan Howard....
I wouldn't copy Bonds because you can see the steroids in his swing. For example, he is able to get away with a less efficient, squish the bug lower body pattern.
Howard is a better choice, although he has a tendency to get away with disconnecting on some swings.
Have you considered David Ortiz?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/DOrtiz2002MIN_Double_SView.gif
Or Ken Griffey Jr.?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/Griffey01.gif
Or Carlos Beltran?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro2/CBeltransview.gif
Or Ted Williams?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/tedbp1.gif
wogdoggy
08-23-2007, 08:50 AM
hey i can see the steroids too..and look close you'll notice the arrogance as well
why not prince fielder?:D
tom.guerry
08-23-2007, 09:26 AM
bonds, barry bonds
MCBaseball13
08-23-2007, 09:34 AM
please dont try to copy other peoples swings.
do whatever feels best for you.
Mark H
08-23-2007, 09:40 AM
MC,
Well, sort of. No need to copy but picking someone you resemble and studying your clip synced to the ML hitter's clip can tell you where your inefficiencies are. IOW, where you are losing time/frames and they are not.
As to Bonds, I would say http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=0&n=1&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 and http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=17&n=13&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 are both rotating well and getting off the back side which is a result of rotating well. You have to have at least a little momentum development to rotate well, but you don't necessarily have to have a lot.
BoardMember
08-23-2007, 01:22 PM
Of course, there is this. Some feel this is the best swing mechanic ever devoloped:
One of the best (http://i11.tinypic.com/42mfrqg.gif)
MC,
Well, sort of. No need to copy but picking someone you resemble and studying your clip synced to the ML hitter's clip can tell you where your inefficiencies are. IOW, where you are losing time/frames and they are not.
As to Bonds, I would say http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=0&n=1&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 and http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=17&n=13&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 are both rotating well and getting off the back side which is a result of rotating well. You have to have at least a little momentum development to rotate well, but you don't necessarily have to have a lot.
Mark H
08-23-2007, 04:16 PM
Sure. Just ask him or his buddy Tom. ;)
Jake Patterson
08-23-2007, 05:40 PM
Or Ted Williams?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/tedbp1.gif
Love how he comes off his back foot..
Chris O'Leary
08-23-2007, 07:27 PM
Love how he comes off his back foot..
No squishing the bug in that swing.
BoardMember
08-23-2007, 10:28 PM
No squishing the bug in that swing.
No ROIDS! :hyper:
Go Cardinals
08-23-2007, 10:45 PM
[QUOTE=Chris O'Leary;985244]I wouldn't copy Bonds because you can see the steroids in his swing. For example, he is able to get away with a less efficient, squish the bug lower body pattern.
How can you say that the way he uses his lower body is......
a- Less powerful considering he is the all time homerun champion
b- Just because he has a differen't way of using his lowerbody doesn't meen he juiced! Maybe that way of lower body helps him....maybe his upper body is
naturally stronger and he can get away with flipping it on the outside pitches.....look at morneau it's similar!
Just because his swing uses a different mechanic, doesn't meen that he juiced. Look at other facts. Look for other things, because someone's mechanics doesn't tell you that he juiced.
aj9020
08-23-2007, 11:07 PM
Go Cardinal is right. I don't understand how you can see roids in Bond's swing?? His swing is perfect. He approach (body motion) has been the same since he entered the league.. His swing is the refined (short stroke) version of his earlier years.. So refined that he rarely will not jump at pitches that are outside the zone of his stroke.
Ricky, from the left side, I use the same double hitch that Bonds used, which helps getting the weight transfer initiated and the hands moving, but my stroke was different..
I think Griffey Jr has the most fluid swing from the left side.. Who do you like?
Griffey has a lot of arm-barring in his swing. This CAN lead to the hands disconnecting/casting from the body.
Bonds swing is a "pull" swing. Next time you watch him, see how close he sets up to the plate. He isn't trying to go the other way at all. Not that he can't, but it's not in his gameplan. He chokes up not only so he can control the bat better, but so he can still hit a pitch on the sweet spot when its way inside.
Ricky, of the three guys you mentioned, I would model after the best all around hitter, and that's Lance Berkman. You don't see the shift being put on for Berkman.
Chris O'Leary
08-24-2007, 09:12 AM
How can you say that the way he uses his lower body is......
a- Less powerful considering he is the all time homerun champion
b- Just because he has a differen't way of using his lowerbody doesn't meen he juiced! Maybe that way of lower body helps him....maybe his upper body is
naturally stronger and he can get away with flipping it on the outside pitches.....look at morneau it's similar!
Just because his swing uses a different mechanic, doesn't meen that he juiced. Look at other facts. Look for other things, because someone's mechanics doesn't tell you that he juiced.
First, Bonds certainly used HGH. That is the only thing that causes you head and feet to grow in middle age.
Second, we have established on this site that squish the bug is a less efficient pattern because it doesn't fully get the hips involved in the swing. Bonds is able to get around this because his muscles are artificially enhanced. He can compensate in other parts of his swing.
Third, are there any other big league power hitters who squish the bug? I can't think of any. Everyone that I've seen has their back foot mostly or entirely unweighted at the point of contact in a good swing.
Chris O'Leary
08-24-2007, 09:14 AM
Go Cardinal is right. I don't understand how you can see roids in Bond's swing?? His swing is perfect.
Squishing the bug is not perfect.
When people come on this site asking for advice, a very frequent criticism is that their hip rotation is not quite right because they are squishing the bug.
There's no squishing the bug in this swing...
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro2/CBeltransview.gif
There's no squishing the bug in this swing...
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/DLee_SView.gif
There's no squishing the bug in this swing...
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/DOrtiz2002MIN_Double_SView.gif
There's no squishing the bug in this swing...
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/MRamirez_Side.gif
AcidLake
08-24-2007, 09:55 AM
Squishing the bug equals a disaster... Hank Aaron sometimes had his back foot off the ground while making a contact and that goees some to Frank Thomas.
Doesn't Epstein advocate staying on backfoot?
Jim W.
08-24-2007, 12:24 PM
AL - I've read a lot of Epstein's stuff and never got that he is an advocate of staying on the back foot. He clearly indicates the importance of balance and not a "squish the bug" approach.
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 04:51 PM
[QUOTE=Chris O'Leary;986301]Squishing the bug is not perfect.
When people come on this site asking for advice, a very frequent criticism is that their hip rotation is not quite right because they are squishing the bug.
There's no squishing the bug in this swing...
I know squishing the bug is not the most effective way to do it, but that doesn't meen he used steriods. Also Chris, you got your facts wrong. If he ever used anything, it wasn't hgh, but it was the clear from balco. If your going to critisize anyone, do it right!
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 04:53 PM
AL - I've read a lot of Epstein's stuff and never got that he is an advocate of staying on the back foot. He clearly indicates the importance of balance and not a "squish the bug" approach.
I agree that squishing the bug is not good, but listen. Esptein has ALOT of problems. I've talked to Tony Gwynn in person about Espstein. He has some great stuff, but..... it has its holes, kind of like englishbey.
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 04:59 PM
Chris, I've searched for some stuff or Morneau, but he pivots a little but too. Just because for most people it isn't the best way, doesn't meen it isn't the best way for bonds!
Also, just because a swing is perfect doesn't mean that it doesn't work. Pivoting must not be THAT bad (yes I still think the pivotting is less effective that the other way), but Barry Bonds is still the all time home run champion (innocent into proven guilty by the court of law).
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 05:04 PM
You have to have at least a little momentum development to rotate well, but you don't necessarily have to have a lot.[/QUOTE]
You are very correct. Everyone needs a different amount of hip action to get the rotaion going. Look at that video of hg teaching the kids. Also, look at alot of lefties (I can't think of any off hand, but I'll try to pull up some stuff). They don't fully rotate around.
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 05:08 PM
This is supporting my last post which was a quote by Mark H.
Thome uses little hip roation, but he still gets enough momentum, does that mean he's juicing? Also, Bonds does the little turn, that after POC he squishes the bug.... not before, but after!
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 05:13 PM
I think we can all agree that 98-02 is about when Bonds is suspected to be cheating. His rotation looks pretty similar to thome's if you ask me..... look at the picture of him in that time period.......
Chris O'Leary
08-24-2007, 05:44 PM
Also Chris, you got your facts wrong. If he ever used anything, it wasn't hgh, but it was the clear from balco. If your going to critisize anyone, do it right!
The clear contained an anabolic steroid. Anabolic steroids do not cause one's head or feet to grow in middle age.
Only HGH does that.
Chris O'Leary
08-24-2007, 05:47 PM
Thome uses little hip roation, but he still gets enough momentum, does that mean he's juicing? Also, Bonds does the little turn, that after POC he squishes the bug.... not before, but after!
What was the result of the swing?
Often you will see different swings depending on the result of the swing.
Even Albert Pujols' swing looks (a little) like mine when he gets fooled.
Chris O'Leary
08-24-2007, 05:48 PM
I think we can all agree that 98-02 is about when Bonds is suspected to be cheating. His rotation looks pretty similar to thome's if you ask me..... look at the picture of him in that time period.......
This is a completely different moment in time than the Thome pic. Well after the point of contact. Many rotational guys look like this (which looks like squishing the bug) at this point.
Jake Patterson
08-24-2007, 06:41 PM
This is supporting my last post which was a quote by Mark H.
Thome uses little hip roation, but he still gets enough momentum, does that mean he's juicing? Also, Bonds does the little turn, that after POC he squishes the bug.... not before, but after!
It's difficult to use stills when describing actions like rotation.
[QUOTE=Chris O'Leary;986301]Squishing the bug is not perfect.
When people come on this site asking for advice, a very frequent criticism is that their hip rotation is not quite right because they are squishing the bug.
There's no squishing the bug in this swing...
I know squishing the bug is not the most effective way to do it, but that doesn't meen he used steriods. Also Chris, you got your facts wrong. If he ever used anything, it wasn't hgh, but it was the clear from balco. If your going to critisize anyone, do it right!
Metabolically speaking, Bonds was most definitly on HGH. Just because he called it "The Clear" doesn't make it not HGH. Athletes started taking steroids because they were a naturally occuring substance in the human body. They were just inducing muscle growth with steroids at unnaturally occuring levels. Hence the massive growth in muscle mass without a growth in skeletal structure. Thereby causing significant increases in skeletal injuries (knees, shoulders, etc). HGH is a naturally occuring human substance just at unnaturally occuring levels. Bonds never tested positive because the league was only testing for steroid use. Tests for HGH, until recently, have been highly, if not completely, unreliable. Again, what you are testing for is a naturally occuring substance at unnaturally occuring levels. It is also what made blood doping in track and cycling very difficult to diagnose. Athletes that train at altitude and train on mountain terrains have increased levels of red blood cells. Blood doping involves removing several pints of an athletes blood several weeks before competition and them returning that same blood just before competition giving the increased red blood cell counts and increased stamina due to the athletes inceased ability to carry oxygen. As we previously noted, the emperical evidence of Bonds HGH use are his increases in skeletal structures that don't naturally occur after the age of 21. Bonds went from a size 6 7/8 hat and size 9 1/2 shoe at almost age 30 to a size 7 1/2 hat and size 13 shoe at age 40.
Mark H
08-24-2007, 09:26 PM
Second, we have established on this site that squish the bug is a less efficient pattern because it doesn't fully get the hips involved in the swing.
I agree. I just don't think that Bonds squishes the bug/aka fails to get off the back side. The difference between Bonds' weight shift and the other clips you posted is a matter of degree.
You ever get down to Houston?
Mark H
08-24-2007, 09:28 PM
AL - I've read a lot of Epstein's stuff and never got that he is an advocate of staying on the back foot. He clearly indicates the importance of balance and not a "squish the bug" approach.
He says the weight starts on the inside of the front thigh and moves to the inside of the back thigh.
Mark H
08-24-2007, 09:31 PM
I agree that squishing the bug is not good, but listen. Esptein has ALOT of problems. I've talked to Tony Gwynn in person about Espstein. He has some great stuff, but..... it has its holes, kind of like englishbey.
;) .
Mark H
08-24-2007, 09:35 PM
You have to have at least a little momentum development to rotate well, but you don't necessarily have to have a lot.
You are very correct. Everyone needs a different amount of hip action to get the rotaion going. Look at that video of hg teaching the kids. Also, look at alot of lefties (I can't think of any off hand, but I'll try to pull up some stuff). They don't fully rotate around.
Your second sentence is not really a good representation of what I said to the point I don't know that you understand my point. Your last sentence seems to indicate you don't understand my point nor the role of momentum development and transfer. I suggest you study Dixon and Englishbey. Might fill in some "holes" for you. ;)
Mark H
08-24-2007, 09:37 PM
I think we can all agree that 98-02 is about when Bonds is suspected to be cheating. His rotation looks pretty similar to thome's if you ask me..... look at the picture of him in that time period.......
Stills don't mean do squat.
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 11:32 PM
[QUOTE=bafh;986850][QUOTE=Go Cardinals;986751]
Metabolically speaking, Bonds was most definitly on HGH. Just because he called it "The Clear" doesn't make it not HGH.
If Bonds took any steriod, it was the clear! Nothing you can say denies that fact.
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 11:33 PM
[QUOTE=Mark H;986965]I agree. I just don't think that Bonds squishes the bug/aka fails to get off the back side. The difference between Bonds' weight shift and the other clips you posted is a matter of degree.
Exactly my point!
Go Cardinals
08-24-2007, 11:35 PM
Your second sentence is not really a good representation of what I said to the point I don't know that you understand my point. Your last sentence seems to indicate you don't understand my point nor the role of momentum development and transfer. I suggest you study Dixon and Englishbey. Might fill in some "holes" for you. ;)
...................
Mark H
08-25-2007, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=Mark H;986965]I agree. I just don't think that Bonds squishes the bug/aka fails to get off the back side. The difference between Bonds' weight shift and the other clips you posted is a matter of degree.
Exactly my point!
Good. I of course was disgreeing with Chris on this one.
Mark H
08-25-2007, 08:00 AM
Actually I understand your point 100%, and I think I know what rotaional hitting is considering I have an edge over alot of coaches on this sight...... I actually play it and do it, you guys teach it..... coaches get so caught up in this ****! Mark H, why don't you go read some ****! I feel insulted, you say such a remark when you probably just read, speak and tell your information, while I actually live it, do it, and even teach it to some people.
Insulted? Get over yourself. And no, I don't think you understand Dixon or Englishbey fully.
Chris O'Leary
08-25-2007, 10:05 AM
I agree. I just don't think that Bonds squishes the bug/aka fails to get off the back side. The difference between Bonds' weight shift and the other clips you posted is a matter of degree.
You ever get down to Houston?
Valid point.
I haven't gotten down there yet, but I want to.
Mark H
08-25-2007, 12:50 PM
I look forward to it. I know you are working hard at this stuff. You, me and Steve should hang out for awhile.
Hard Liner
10-02-2007, 03:53 PM
I'd be out of my league discussing swing mechanics, but on a more general level, wouldn't it make sense that the best mechanics would probably come from the player with best production-to-body weight ratio?
Maybe that just leads back to Bonds but I wonder if some of the ligher guys, either now or historically, are being overlooked.
StraightGrain11
10-02-2007, 09:36 PM
I wouldn't copy Bonds because you can see the steroids in his swing. For example, he is able to get away with a less efficient, squish the bug lower body pattern.
Howard is a better choice, although he has a tendency to get away with disconnecting on some swings.
Have you considered David Ortiz?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/DOrtiz2002MIN_Double_SView.gif
Or Ken Griffey Jr.?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/Griffey01.gif
Or Carlos Beltran?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro2/CBeltransview.gif
Or Ted Williams?
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/tedbp1.gif
I'll def agree with you on Beltran...Griffey, too. Don't forget about Manny and A-rod, though. Ever consider Kent or Olerud? And I would be remiss if I didn't include probably the best hitter of this generation, Todd Helton (.332 lifetime, 21st All-Time)
http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro2/kent.gif http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/JOlerud2005BOS_SView.gif
steve777
10-10-2007, 05:42 PM
It is amazing how Derek Lee can lift his front leg that high, and stride that far,
and not move his head so much that he loses a good track and has sight on the ball. I play in an over 30 league and I have lately felt I need to minimize my stride.
StraightGrain11
10-10-2007, 06:18 PM
Juan Gonzalez use to do it that way too, so did A-Rod - but he's toned his down a bit now. It is amazing they can hit like that.
Go Cardinals
10-11-2007, 09:40 PM
adressing the origional question, pujols has the best.... no questions asked.... a-rods is good too, but I like alberts better....lol _That wasn't biased by me at all _lol
StraightGrain11
10-12-2007, 02:29 AM
If you're going to have a serious discussion on best swing mechanics, you must include Paul Konerko.
Anybody have any good footage/clips of Robinson Cano?
Drill
10-12-2007, 03:58 AM
could not get swing to post
sorry
Go Cardinals, some of your responses in this thread and on other threads really demonstrates your lack of knowledge and maturity. You should really do a bit more research before you attack other people's comments, otherwise you look foolish. Just my honest assessment, take it as you like........
Go Cardinals
10-12-2007, 04:21 PM
Go Cardinals, some of your responses in this thread and on other threads really demonstrates your lack of knowledge and maturity. You should really do a bit more research before you attack other people's comments, otherwise you look foolish. Just my honest assessment, take it as you like........
How am I attcacking other peoples comments, I want to know. The origional question here was, best swing mechanics, so I said that I think pujols has the best swing mechanics. Am I missing something here?
This is adressed to everyone, why is it that when I ask questions, I get shunned, but when I try to learn to much I get shunned to. I can't even reply to a thread because "I can't comment." I don't get this. All i am trying to do is learn as much as I can about my favorite thing to do... baseball. Is that really such a crime? Please respond, I want to know as much as I can, so I can not only be a better ball player, but a better person.
Connor, you're 14 and most of us are old ..... There is a communication gap...just like there is between my son and me. Also, many of these guys have been either teaching or coaching for as long as you have been on earth. Clearly you are a bright guy, but there is no way your life experience can equal what these guys have seen and heard. If you are truly here to learn, then do more reading than responding. Hang in there and like I've said before, I want to see game vid, not backyard stuff.
Jake Patterson
10-12-2007, 07:44 PM
The origional question here was, best swing mechanics, so I said that I think pujols has the best swing mechanics.
I get in these types of discussion with my sons (One of which is twice your age) all the time. What I try to do is have them validate their opinions with some thoughtful discussion based on facts. What I think DDogg (Who by the way does this stuff for a living) was saying is merely stating who has the best swing is the easy part, validating why you think so is a little more difficult. Tough thing for a 14 y/o. Pujols has a great swing and trying to emulate him would be a good thing if you feel you are his type of hitter.. Understanding the difference between him and other sucessful hitters brings even more to the table.
Listen to the old man grasshopper for he has walked the path on which you are about to step.:happy:
Keep smilingm keep asking questions and keep playing...