The Bitter Rivals Thread

[KenFougere]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7RwWU0fNmRo/SkDX1auW-wI/AAAAAAAAABg/Wi1REM5HkjE/s400/BR%2520LOGO2.jpg

Which teams do you feel have the strongest 'most bitter' rivalry in Major League Baseball? Also, what makes your favorite rivalry so special?
What's needed to make a rivalry stand out from all the others? http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-018.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7RwWU0fNmRo/SkDb6TDX16I/AAAAAAAAAB4/psWsl53CHmY/s320/2v2d1sn.jpgMy View:

THE rivalry began almost 100 years ago. Ever since, it has taken on a life of its own! It starts at the front office exec's to the players, right down to all the Boston & New York baseball fans (past to present). Unlike other rivalries, these two teams have never re-located, to, or from another city since their inception into the league. They have the same basic team uniforms that date back to before the Titanic sunk! I feel no other rivalry can match this historic Boston Red Sox - NY Yankee rivalry! http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Happy/happy-078.gif

Let the games begin! http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Winks/j_gaba.gif

(Added in Nov/2004)
Since the Red Sox made history, as the first team to win a playoff series after being down 0-3 to the Yankees, :choke:, (which enabled them to win their first World Series in 86 years by sweeping the Cardinals), how can anyone doubt that this rivalry is the best in American pro sports . . . http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Happy/happy-047.gif

:atthepc - I started "The Bitter Rivals Thread" on Feb. 2, 2002 - :lookitup

[cowboy15]

i would have to say its a tie between the mets and braves, they have always been rivalrys of the astros and many of the mets fans that i have met have been complete jackasses, please dont take offense if any of you are fans, but im just talking about the few i have met personally. and then the braves of course because they always seem to bump the stros outta the playoffs whenever we get there

[rockin500]

White Sox n Brewers. I hate the Brewers more than any other team. (well, not hate, as i dont really hate any time. just cant stand the team)

[Steffo]

Yankees. They are the rivals of the Dodgers and I just hate them.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Which do you think is "THE" rivalry that is the oldest & strongest?


My thoughts>>>>

For almost 100 years now THE rivalry began. Ever since then it has taken on a life of its own! It starts at the front office exec's to the players, right down to all the Boston & New York baseball fans (past up to present). Unlike other rivalries these two teams never re-located. They have the same address and team uniforms that date back to before the Titanic sunk! No other rivalry can match the Red Sox - Yankee history.


Agreed.....

Nothing compares to that rivalry...

A good current rivalry now is the Mets and Braves....

Mets and Yanks is always a highly anticipated matchup now that they play each other in interleague.....

[yellowdog]

Without a doubt, the Yankees-Red Sox is the mother of all rivalries. But the Dodgers-Giants would have to be the runner up. The Baseball Guru mentioned the Braves-Mets which should heat up this year, especially with Glavine on the other side now. But in recent years, this has been a pretty one sided rivalry with the Braves pretty much dominating it. That may change this year.

The Braves also had a pretty good rivalry going with the Dodgers in the early 90s when both teams were in the NL West but that sort of fizzled out when the Braves moved to the East.

And I`m thinking the Cubs-Cardinals have a pretty good rivalry going also.

[PopTop]

Agreed, Sox-Yanks sits atop the list all-time ... I might go Giants-Dodgers next, maybe Cubs-Cards third ... Guru's Mets-Braves could fit in there, 'specially since the '69 divisional split.

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by LouGehrig
The Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is a rivalry only to the Red Sox FANS.

A rivalry is a competition for a prize. One team has won the prize 26 times. The other has not won it during that same time frame.

How can that be a rivalry?


I think you need to expand your vision of rivialry. Besides, the BoSox have won a few pennants that the Yanks would have liked to have won themselves. But, unlike the Yanks, the BoSox never capitlized on the opportunities. True, it's bigger for BoSox fans than Yank fans. But hey, what franchise, in any sport, compares with the Yanks?*


*Montreal of the NHL?

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by LouGehrig
The Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is a rivalry only to the Red Sox FANS.

How can that be a rivalry?

Although I've been a hardcore Red Sox fan for over 36 years & I really can't stand the Yankees, I do respect the team. I feel very privileged to have a hometown team that has been and still is involved in this VERY SPECIAL part of baseball...
It's ashame you don't appreciate this unique aspect of the game.
Both teams are lucky to have each other to compete with for so many years!

:rolleyes: :grouchy :eek:

[Sandman]

Yanks-Sox
Yanks-Mets
Mets-Braves

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by Markfisher
I think it would be Yankees-Mets if only the Mets were consistently competitive....sorry Mets fans.

Cheers

Since interleague began the Mets have been pretty consistantly competitive...

They have even played the Yanks in the WS....

My thing with listing this as a good rivalry is not only some of the good games they have played but also the fact that it is NY vs NY and all of the sub-plots that come into play when they play each other..

IE. Clemens and Piazza....

Mets are 11-16 vs the Yanks since the beginning of interleague play.....
Not as one sided as one may think...

[NickG]

There's no doubt that the big one is Yankees vs. Red Sox.

What about Atlanta and Florida? This is one that got started in 1997, and the games have always been interesting since then, even when the Marlins have stunk. It's not as "historic" as the others mentioned here, but it deserves a mention, I think.

[LouGehrig]

Originally posted by KenFougere

It's ashame you don't appreciate this unique aspect of the game.
Both teams are lucky to have each other to compete with for so many years!

:rolleyes: :grouchy :eek:

I do appreciate the unique aspect of the game which you refer to as an intense rivalry at the highest level.

While you are right that in 2003 most fans would consider the Yankees-Red Sox to have the greatest rivalry, I do not accept that conclusion to be valid for the reason I stated.

I lived through the New York Giants-Brooklyn Dodgers rivalry. Due to the passage of time, most modern fans do not consider it the equal of the Yankees-Red Sox, but that does not change the fact that is was more intense for the fans and, more importantly, for the players.

The Yankees and Red Sox players do NOT have the dislike for each other that the Dodgers and Giants players had for each other. Ask David Cone, Mike Stanton, Sparky Lyle, or Mike Torrez ( I did ask Torrez and he said he considers himself a Yankee but has nothing against the Red Sox).

As punishment, O'Malley traded Robinson to the Giants, and to his credit, Robinson simply retired.

When Sal Maglie walked into the Dodgers clubhouse as a DODGER, it was with trepidation and great wariness.

Another important factor is that the Dodgers won sometimes and the Giants won sometimes. While the Dodgers won only one WS while in Brooklyn, it must be recognized that the two teams competed for the pennant, as do the Yankees with the Red Sox, but that there was not great domination of one team over the other as with the Yankees and Red Sox.

Finally, after the Giants won the WS in 1933, neither team again won it until the Giants won in 1954, so there were 21 seasons in which neither team won it all. And the following year, the Dodgers won it. No Yankee World Championship has been followed by a Red Sox WS victory.

[shlevine42]

Thanks, Lou – for putting this issue in perspective and for citing the dominant characteristic of the Dodgers-Giants rivalry:

HATRED. Blinding, unrepressed hatred.

(YOU felt it, and you rooted for ANOTHER TEAM!!)

In fact, “rivalry” is too tame a word; it was a !@#$%WAR.

And unless you lived through it, you can’t appreciate the tension that surrounded EVERY GAME between the two teams. And you’re right to point out that while it was excruciatingly intense for the FANS of both teams, for the players, it was nothing short of COMBAT, driven by the HATRED they felt for one another.

For those of us who DID live through it, it was the defining rivalry/competition of our baseball youth. And 50 years later, those feelings and memories are as vivid and intense as ever.

You hadda be there!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru ..... all of the sub-plots that come into play when teams play each other..

IE. Clemens and Piazza....


Very good point about the "sub-plots" that fester in a rivalry between certain players. :evil

Do you remember when.....
Carlton Fisk met Thurmon Munson at homeplate? :grouchy

Ah.....the good-ole-days! :laugh

[BoSox Rule]

In my opinion, which doesn't have to be the same as your's, is that nothing will ever compare to Red Sox vs. Yankees.

[Calder]

I think for pure theatre the BoSox-Yankee rivalry, right now especially, is pretty fun to observe from a distance. I like the rivalry because both teams have been around for so long. The Clemens-Pedro, 2-0 Sunday night matchup a couple years back on ESPN was one of the most dramatic, nerve-racking regular mid-season games I have ever seen/heard. As a baseball fan, THAT WAS AWESOME! On purpose, I didn't even WATCH the game on ESPN, but listened to the call from Charley Steiner and Soup Campbell on ESPN Radio, and that just added to the lore of that game, for me anyways. Man, that game was pure baseball.

[razors]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by YankeeMan
[COLOR=darkblue] But hey, what franchise, [b]in any sport, compares with the Yanks?*

i think it would depend on the criteria used - e.g. fan base (amount vs. intensity), titles, name recognition, revenue, blah, blah...

manchester united for sure...

...and maybe:

arsenal
barcelona
real madrid
juventus

amd i think the green bay packers have a fairly successful and storied history...

razors

[jhwinfrey]

While these certainly don't qualify as "the" greatest rivalries, they are definitely "my" greatest:

Royals-Yankees
and Royals-Cardinals.

Most Royals fans I know deeply hate the Yankees. The KC A's were treated like a farm team by the 50s and 60s Yankees. Then we had the great playoff series between KC and NY in 1976, 77, 78, and 80. Then the "pine-tar" incident in 1983. So there's some great history there, even if things have been one-sided lately.

Royals-Cardinals is more of an artificial rivalry, fueled quite a bit by Don Denkinger's call in Game 6 of the '85 series. And with interleague play, we basically get to relive the series every year. My wife is a Cardinals fan from St. Louis and we went to a Royals-Cardinals game the day after our wedding. About 30 members of our families were there, and the Royals won, of course (they can always get up for the meaningless games)
Now when we go to interleague games, we take our son, who has a STL cap and a KC jersey.

[CardFanNV]

Don't know if it's really a rivalry, because during the Cub's good years, the Cards are usually buried and vice-versa ............. I don't remember them playing each other when the pennant was on the line for both teams ..................

I think it's more of "a thing to do" .......... both cities are big on baseball, and they're close enough together to drive between .....

Giants/Dodgers is AT LEAST as big as Yanks/BoSox .........

If you lived in NY in the fifties, you loved one and absolutley HATED the other ............. from what I heard, their was no middle ground ............... then it moved to the Left Coast, and continues to this day ........................ many times they've played each ohter with the pennant on the line ...........................

Mets and the Birds had a good one going in the mid-late 80's .....

[racosun]

While I can appreciate the rivalry between the Sox and Yanks, I always look forward to watching the Tigers play the Royals. It simmerred down last year, especially after Weaver was traded, but this will be one that will stick around for a while. Weaver vs. Sweeney was a great matchup, IMO. I can only wonder what Fick would be yapping at Sweeney as Weaver got ready to wizz one by his chin. As we all know, these two teams have been cellar-dwellars for some time now, and both are rebuilding. Hopefully, I can watch the rivalry grow as the teams get better, and it would make for great lore to see these teams battle it out for the division one day. I just pray that that one day is not a week into the season.

[The Real McCoy]

The Red Sox/Yankees rivalry is a good one but its been basically one sided ever since the Babe for Broadway Lights trade. Additionally, the teams and the vast majority of each team's fans are separated by 200 miles.

In contrast, during the forties and fifties, the Dodgers and Giants and their fans were separated by 30.....subway stops. They, both team's management and the fans, never stopped antagonizing each other, never stopped deriding the other team, never passed up a chance to take a gratuitous shot at the other, and it got even worse once the season started. And it reached a fever pitch every one of the 22 times they played each year. Each game was a heavyweight championship fight, the teams literally "feeling each other out" during the first inning which often lasted thirty minutes, unheard of in those days of two and one half one hour games. I was fortunate enough to live through that period, "up close and personal" and was one of a very large contingent of Brooklynites who could never bring themselves to root for the New York Giants.....football team. Brooklyn was a hotbed of Cleveland Browns fans in those days, at least on the corners I frequented.

There are some wonderful rivalries in this wonderful game of ours, the best rivalries in all of sports, but nothing compares to the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants, nothing.

[Biggtone23]

The Yankees - Red Sox is the top rivalry.

But there are some good ones getting bulit up.
The Yankees - Athletics with New York having elminated Oakland from the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years. and now we have one of their best players from those teams.

Yankees - Mariners - same thing. Beat the A's in the LDS then beat the Mariners in the LCS. This is of course intensifed by the 1995 ALDS when the Mariners elminated the Yankees and ended Don Mattingly's career. I know it is not a big deal for the players now but the fans really make the rivalries and we havent forgotten.

[TheDarkDragon]

Consider this: the Red Sox haven't won a World Series since 1918, that's 85 years. During that time, 26 WS have been won by the Yankees, that's more than a third of the years the Red Sox have been in drought. During that time, the Yankees have also won 38 pennants, preventing the Red Sox from reaching the WS nearly half of all of those years. Suppose the Yankees did not exist, how many of those pennants would the Sox have won? Quite a few, I suspect, by nothing more than probability. And out of those WS appearances, how many victories do you suppose they would have? At least a few, after all, even a blind mouse occasionally finds a piece of cheese.

As I've said before, the BoSox aren't cursed, they're screwed.

Are you going to tell me, in all honesty, that there is no animosity toward the Yankees for that dominance all these years?

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by penguinfan
Dodgers & Giants. Man I hate the Giants!:mad:

I can vouch for that rivalry! My dad, "Mr. Dodger", absolutely hated the Giants. Not as much as the Yankees, but hated them none the less.

[Hammerin Hank]

I think the best rivalry in baseball is between the Red Sox and Yankees too. But since I'm a Cubs fan I will allude to that. The best rivalry involving the Cubs, I think, would be against the Cardinals. And the best rivalry for the White Sox would be with the Twinkies, since they're the only two teams in the AL central worth a darn.

[KenFougere]

The reason I really like the Boston-New York yearly battles is that each team picks it up a notch or two every time they meet.

The difference is... come June 15th Boston's intensity go's on vacation for the summer!


-------------:rolleyes: :confused: :mad: :grouchy------------

[lucasmod]

Originally posted by LouGehrig
The Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is a rivalry only to the Red Sox FANS.

A rivalry is a competition for a prize. One team has won the prize 26 times. The other has not won it during that same time frame.

How can that be a rivalry?


I agree with the above statement in that this rivalry does seem to be more of a cncern to Red Sox fans than Yankees fans. I recently moved from Boston, where you can't go to church without hearing a "Yankees Sucks" chant to New York where the average Yankees fans I talk to don't even sweat the Red Sox. For the actual teams, this may be different. Who knows the truth behind George's "stealing" of Contreras from the Red Sox, but from a fans standpoint (I'm a baseball fan moreso than a fan of a particular team), this rivalry is more a one sided hatred on the part of the Red Sox.

Red Sox Fans hate the Yankees regardless of who the Yankees are playing. Yankees fans hate thir teams opponent whoever that may be.

[KenFougere]

I disagree...
...all you have to do is read some of the threads that Yankee fan members post about the Red Sox. Especially when Boston is leading in the AL East, {which is usually only April-June} that's when you'll sense the "rivalry" in the NY fans too!

:laugh :rolleyes: :evil

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by KenFougere

...Especially when Boston is leading in the AL East, {which is usually only April-June}

Actually, don't you mean the first few weeks of April? :p

FYI: During the 1986 World Series (http://baseball-almanac.com/ws/yr1986ws.shtml), I was pulling for the Mets. And I absolutely detest and loathe the Mets. That should tell you how I feel about the BoSox... It's Fisk v. Munson, Normar v. Jeter, and on and on and on... It'll be this way until the BoSox win a championship, which means it'll always be this way. ;)



Sorry Ken, but I have to tease you -- It's the law!
:laugh 1903 :laugh 1912 :laugh 1915 :laugh 1916 :laugh 1918 :laugh

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by LouGehrig
A rivalry is a competition for a prize. One team has won the prize 26 times. The other has not won it during that same time frame.

How can that be a rivalry?

I've played alot of sports and the most enjoyable part of a championship season/series for me was the actual competing against and beating a tough rival.
It's great once the game/series is won,
but the working as a unit with talented team-mates to beat an equally good rival is the most enjoyable part...

I can say this because as a Sox fan I've never had the chance to experience the celebration of BECOMING the world champs...

{Why did I even go there...now I'm depressed}:confused:

[Steffo]

a rivalry are two teams that always fight against eachother.

Bosox and Yanks.

Dodgers and Giants

Cubs and Cards.

[brewcrew82]

Baseball: Yanks/BoSox is the most bitter rivalry.

All of Sports: Rangers vs. Celtic (Scottish Football), these two teams literally HATE each other!!!!

As for the ManUtd vs. NYY debate, I've been talking to alot of people re: this and United are definately the more recognised and worldwide, the most popular sports franchise...I'm pretty sure that they're also the richest, but I may be wrong...(I'm not a huge soccer fan)

[BeckettFan61]

The Yankees are rivals with everyone.

My favorite was when the interleague rivalry series was going on a few years ago. Braves vs. Red Sox. Since I'm a Braves fan and most of my friends are Red Sox fans, I always loved that one.

But nothing will be the Yankees and Red Sox. No one even comes close. Whether it be Cubs-Cardinals or Mets-Braves or Giants-Dodgers.

[Steffo]

Lol, I can't believe no one talks about the old rivalry between the Dodgers and Yanks.

[nyyfanatic85]

Hey, we all agree that Yanks-Red Sox is huge, but what about Cubs-Yankees? They play each other this year for the first time since the '38 World Series and the Cubs have never beaten the Yankees in any game. This could be an up and coming rivalry.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I doubt it about Cubs-Yankees. After this year, when will be the next time they play? You can't have a rivalry based on speculation. The Yankees also play the Reds. Ask YankeeMan how he is looking forward to that.

[baseballwise]

Ken, IMO, baseball historians clearly agree that the Red Sox- Yankees rivalry is by far the best.

It's the most intense, involves some of the greatest players in the game, includes some of the highest highs and lowest lows, and is truly exciting year after year.

Unfortunately, the Red Sox haven't overcome that darned curse yet!!!!! Go Sox!!!!!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by CubbieFan7
Why don't you buy the Yankees and turn them into a hockey team? That way they'll just disappear.

Unfortunately I think the Yankees are the only company that could afford to do it!!!....:rolleyes: ;)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Hey! They've only won six in my lifetime <does some quick caculations> Oh wait, that's the most in baseball, during that time frame. Ummm, nevermind...:D :p ;)


I think of what you said above and I can't help but think of my poor father who LOVED the Sox, lived 79 years and never saw a championship come to Boston,,, I hope you realize how lucky you are. ... :o ...:eek:... ;)

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by KenFougere
I think of what you said above and I can't help but think of my poor father who LOVED the Sox, lived 79 years and never saw a championship come to Boston,,, I hope you realize how lucky you are. ... :o ...:eek:... ;)

I know how "lucky" it is to be a Yankee. I also know, to some extent (18 years) what a drought feels like.

My great baseball hope is that I'll live long enough to see the Cubs and Red Sox both win the World Series.

It would be a great day for baseball -- not just in Boston or Chicago. And if I get a little "watery eyed" while your celebrating know this... It will not be from sadness or anger. It will be from great joy.

Some bitter rivalry, eh? ;)

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Let me take a wild guess....mmmm....

............One of yours perhaps ? ? ? ?........ :rolleyes:......... ;).......... :p

Yep, my 1996 ring. I can now wear it virtually! ;)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Yep, my 1996 ring. I can now wear it virtually! ;)


Ring Lord.....

Now, is that the style that the players got?

Do you get a chioce?

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Ring Lord.....

Now, is that the style that the players got?

Do you get a chioce?

No, the diamond in the center of the interlocking NY is much larger on the player/exec ring. That's the only difference.

[DownUnderDodger]

Obviously I am not way up there with most of you as far as the history of the game is concerned, however from what I have read there is no doubt that no other rivalry can match the Red Sox - Yankee history. Interestingly, during yesterday's telecast of the Giants/Dodgers game the same question was asked in the fans survey and the result (over 17,000 responses) was overwhelming to the BoSox/Yankees with more than 62% of the vote. Second was Giants/Dodgers and third was Cubs/Cards.

RB :)

[YankeeMan]

I know they don't play every year but I wonder why the Yankees-Dodgers rivalry is hardly ever mentioned among the "great rivialries."

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by DownUnderDodger
Obviously I am not way up there with most of you as far as the history of the game is concerned, however from what I have read there is no doubt that no other rivalry can match the Red Sox - Yankee history. Interestingly, during yesterday's telecast of the Giants/Dodgers game the same question was asked in the fans survey and the result (over 17,000 responses) was overwhelming to the BoSox/Yankees with more than 62% of the vote. Second was Giants/Dodgers and third was Cubs/Cards.

RB :)

It's passed on from generation to generation. My grandfather and father talked endlessly about it. Now my 6-year-old son knows ALL about too! It makes every season special...
It's taken on a life of it's own.......

...... :p...... :gt..... :waving

[DownUnderDodger]

It's passed on from generation to generation. My grandfather and father talked endlessly about it. Now my 6-year-old son knows ALL about too! It makes every season special... I am sure if I lived in USA I would be glued to baseball and have a much greater knowledge of the game and its history. That is why I love accessing :atthepc this forum - people like yourself who have had the game passed down thru generations continue to enlighten me!! :cool: :cool:

RB :) :)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
I know they don't play every year but I wonder why the Yankees-Dodgers rivalry is hardly ever mentioned among the "great rivalries."


It's probably not mentioned because there's not many people alive anymore who actually saw them play when the Dodgers were in Brooklyn.
For example, I don't consider the Red Sox-Braves a rivalry at all...

[yellowdog]

The only thing I like as much as baseball is talking about baseball. That's the great thing about this forum for those of us who don't have spouses or friends who share or understand our enthusiasm.

[Perseas]

Originally posted by razors
Originally posted by YankeeMan
But hey, what franchise, in any sport, compares with the Yanks?

i think it would depend on the criteria used - e.g. fan base (amount vs. intensity), titles, name recognition, revenue, blah, blah...

manchester united for sure...

...and maybe:

arsenal
barcelona
real madrid
juventus

amd i think the green bay packers have a fairly successful and storied history...

razors

Thank god someone popped out of the US borders to look further ahead. I only like to watch international soccer games (and I come from a country where 90% of sports news is domestic and international soccer) but you guys have to admit that most of the teams that razors stated have a huge amount of fans worldwide. It is a fact thaat 96% of Man United fans have never been to Old Trafford (because it's thousands of miles away from where they live or come from). Barcelona has a 95000 seat stadium (Camp Nou) and in every home match they issue only 10000 tickets, because they have 80000 season ticket members and around 1500 member clubs worldwide, almost the same as Real Madrid. I myself am a member of the Juverntus fan club in Athens, Greece. So l would advise a little caution when referring to the rest of the world. And besides that you should know that outsside the American continent, the most popular sports league is the NBA.

I apologise if the posting looks offensive it's just that

[aroundthehorn]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Well, ATH, glad you like it!....:waving
Now, what do you think is "the best" baseball rivalry?.... :cool:

Yankees - RedSox is the best, I hope to someday witness 1 page of a yearly chapter of this historic novel in my days roaming the earth. It will come to me.

2nd in line is to me, Cubs-Cardinals, the electricity "buzz", and intense what I would call love/hate to beat the other team is prevalent when these 2 hook up.

The Sosa-McGwire home run race was just dessert for this storied rivalry. It's going to be fun to see Matt Morris v. Wood/Clement/ or Prior this year a few times.

Then, Dodger/Giants.

[Sandman]

Mets-Braves is very heated. That belongs in th top 5, I'd say.

[Steffo]

You cannot forget the classic Devil Rays-White Sox matchups....:p

Actually, I think there are few classic rivalries these days besides the RedSox/Yankees, Cubs/Cards, Dodgers/Giants, and Mets/Braves.

I think the A's have a rivalry but I can't think it.

[bezdomny]

I'm certain that was a joke.

But I think that, over the years ahead, Tampa-Boston could evolve into a great rivalry. Nothing remotely close to the NY-Boston rivalry, of course, but when the Rays get good, I think it will be a rivalry.

Early days yet, but these two teams sure hate each other passionately. And when I go to Rays-Red Red Sox games, there's a lot more tension in the air than when I go to Rays-Yankees games.

In any event, the Red Sox are the team I seem to most enjoy watching the Rays play and, on happy occasions, defeat.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by bezdomny
I'm certain that was a joke.

But I think that, over the years ahead, Tampa-Boston could evolve into a great rivalry. Nothing remotely close to the NY-Boston rivalry, of course, but when the Rays get good, I think it will be a rivalry.

Early days yet, but these two teams sure hate each other passionately. And when I go to Rays-Red Red Sox games, there's a lot more tension in the air than when I go to Rays-Yankees games.

In any event, the Red Sox are the team I seem to most enjoy watching the Rays play and, on happy occasions, defeat.


You're absolutely right. These last couple of years have had their share of bench-clearing brawls, bean-balls and ejections. I remember Pedro being in the middle of it too. It's going to get worse with Lou P. as the manager. He won't back down from anybody.


{to Yankeeman: Speaking of Lou, that was the luckiest stab at a ball (in the sun) that he never even saw!
Do you know what game I'm talking about?}........:grouchy

[bezdomny]

Yep. As of some point last year, the Rays and BoSox led the majors in terms of the two teams who HBP each other the most. I don't know if they finished the season that way, but it wouldn't surprise me, given that Pedro is the active career leader in HBP and the Rays young pitching is prone to it as well.

Here in the Tampa Bay area, there are a lot of relocated Yankees fans, so when you go to a Rays-Yankees game people have a hard time rooting against the team from "back home." But although there are some former Bostonians here as well, they are fewer. And of course, the relocated New Yorkers are used to hating the Red Sox anyway. So I think most Rays fans see the BoSox as the most targetable rival for the Tampa Bay franchise as it seeks to find an identity within the American League.

[BigFan14]

I can't remember who coined the phrase

"A rivalry can only exist when two teams have a chance of beating each other on a consistent basis"

to that light, while the red sox and yankees may go head to head during the season, the redsox have rarely been able to beat the Yankees to gain the first place position.

I think it is called a rivalry for lack of any other word, but the Red Sox can not beat and have not beaten the Yankees therefore, I do not consider this a rivalry

Since the last time Sox won a WS they have won 4 AL Pennants
The Yankees have won 38

an the WS...well we know that record.

[bezdomny]

I have to agree with Ken. After all, the Red Sox have made it past the Yankees to reach the World Series on several occasions. In fact, the last four times the Sox have reached the Fall Classic, they've gone all the way to Game 7 before being heartbroken.

It's the Cardinals (twice), Reds and Mets who have wrenched the glory away from the Red Sox in the end, not the Yankees.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by bezdomny
I have to agree with Ken. After all, the Red Sox have made it past the Yankees to reach the World Series on several occasions. In fact, the last four times the Sox have reached the Fall Classic, they've gone all the way to Game 7 before being heartbroken.

It's the Cardinals (twice), Reds and Mets who have wrenched the glory away from the Red Sox in the end, not the Yankees.
As DarkDragon said in the early part of this thread:
Consider this: the Red Sox haven't won a World Series since 1918, that's 85 years. During that time, 26 WS have been won by the Yankees, that's more than a third of the years the Red Sox have been in drought. During that time, the Yankees have also won 38 pennants, preventing the Red Sox from reaching the WS nearly half of all of those years. Suppose the Yankees did not exist, how many of those pennants would the Sox have won? Quite a few, I suspect, by nothing more than probability. And out of those WS appearances, how many victories do you suppose they would have? At least a few, after all, even a blind mouse occasionally finds a piece of cheese.

[Sandman]

I meant to say that in response to:
It's the Cardinals (twice), Reds and Mets who have wrenched the glory away from the Red Sox in the end, not the Yankees.

[MetsFan11368]

I do agree that the Bosox/NYY is the most intense for sure, but in my case, I don't consider the Yankees/Mets rivalry too significant. Although a Mets fan, I have never been able to root against ANY team from the City of New York, and yes, that includes the Yankees. I always looked forward to a Subway Series and when it finally came, I felt uncomfortable that one of them would have to lose. Not too many of us round......

[Sandman]

Yanks/Mets has been a heated rivalry since the Subway Series

[Sports4u]

Not just because I'm a west coaster, but I think the most bitter rivalry as far as fans, players and ballpark attitude has to be the New York/San Francisco Giants vs the Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers !

The edge here keeps tinkering back and forth as far as supremacy is concerned, wheras the Yankees have so dominated the Red Sox over the years that the supremacy is totally one-sided.

(BTW, I'm a die-hard Yankee Fan since 1956 with Mantle, Mattingly, Murcer & Guidry my all-Time Yankee favorites)

There's only one REAL Team, the New York Yankees. All others just play for the fun of it as the Yankees allow :)

[Sports4u]

Remember Marichal/Roseboro & Ron Cey's remarks ? I guess it can be called a tie here (Red Sox/Yankees, Giants/Dodgers) depending on your geographics.
Both rivalries are obviously intense with fan & team hatred alike.

I'm not from New York, but doubt you can find any more of a Die-Hard to the grave Yankee Fan than I ! The Yankees have so dominated the sport of baseball that second place to their accomplishments are teams somewhere in past history.
Now if your a Brave fan, they suffered the ultimate punishment of humilty for even trying to intimidate the Crowned Kings (sorta like Jordan did to Stackhouse for running his mouth)!

JMHO

by the way, Juan Gonzalez just parked it to take a 3-1 over the Red Sox! Yankee pitchers rarely see this occurence this year :)

[bly11]

Originally posted by BasEbaLlKnoItAll

But i hate the red sox with a passion, i love goin to Fenway Park in my yankee jerseys and stuff and listen to all the sox fans yell and complain, and then get thrown out for taking part in "1918" chants, every chance i get to see those two teams i jump at it, because i love watching us beat you, blah blah blah blah blah ...

The consolation for Red Sox fans here is that KnoItAll will spend the entire next time he's at Fenway being hassled non-stop by all of Will Hunting's buddies. "Hey ... let's beat up that Yankee fan ... and steal his girl ... EHHH!" :D

As a West-Coaster, I have to say that the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry beats Giants-Dodgers, hands down. SF-LA is second ... but it's a distant second.


In support of KenFougere (who had to see about a girl ;) ),

[Hammerin Hank]

Garland passes test in win
By Scott Merkin / MLB.com

CHICAGO -- Jon Garland exited to a standing ovation from the 25,381 fans at U.S. Cellular Field during Saturday’s game between the White Sox and Minnesota Twins.
In a start that the 23-year-old needed just to keep his spot in the rotation, Garland responded with a solid 5 2/3 innings of four-hit ball in a 7-4 victory over the Twins. He walked two, allowed two solo home runs and struck out five, helping the White Sox (13-11) end their three-game losing streak and picking up his first victory.

But, Garland’s pitching wasn’t the only reason the fans showed their support and appreciation.

With two outs and nobody on base in the sixth, Garland hit Doug Mientkiewicz in the backside with a pitch. Mientkiewicz had been thoroughly booed in each at-bat during the first two games of the series, after making comments about taking the All-Star Game from the White Sox on the same night the fans-on-the field incidents took place on April 15.

When hit by the pitch, Mientkiewicz pointed his bat toward Garland as he moved toward first base. Home plate umpire Bruce Froemming, who is also the crew chief, immediately ejected Garland.

Both benches and bullpens emptied, with some brief scuffling taking place between first and second base, but no major fighting. Twins reliever LaTroy Hawkins also was ejected, and Aaron Rowand replaced White Sox center fielder Armando Rios after order was restored.

It was not immediately clear why Rios left the game. In the bottom of the fifth, Magglio Ordonez was hit by Twins starter Kyle Lohse with runners on first and second and one out. Ordonez, angered when hit by J.C. Romero in the ninth inning of Friday’s game, hit a home run off Lohse in the fourth.

Lost in all the hit-batsmen uproar was a return appearance from the White Sox offense, which had produced just 15 runs in the past six games. Frank Thomas homered for the second straight night, giving him five for the season, and moving him into a tie with Albert Belle for 46th on the all-time list at 381.

Carlos Lee also launched a solo shot and added two doubles. Joe Crede delivered an RBI single, and Brian Daubach broke a 0-for-18 slump with a bases-loaded RBI single in the fifth. Ordonez picked up his fifth home run, and second of the game, with a two-run shot in the eighth.

Despite the 10-hit outburst, the White Sox left eight runners on base during the fifth, sixth and seventh innings alone and 10 for the game. Each team has three hit batters and one victory to even this series. There are 17 games remaining this season between the favorites, and heated rivals, in the American League Central.

[YankeeMan]

The greatest game I ever saw: October 2, 1978 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/2000/03/22/yanks_redsox/)
By Peter Gammons

It was before seven on a crystalline autumn morning when Rick Burleson left his home in Acton, Mass., and simply drove around. "I felt like I had ulcers," the Boston Red Sox shortstop said later. A few days earlier Burleson had summarized the emotions of much of New England by saying, "My only feeling for the Yankees is that I hate them."

The 1978 playoff game between the Red Sox and the New York Yankees on Oct. 2 was the sudden-death overtime to a six-month war. In late July the Red Sox had been 14 games in front of the Yankees, living up to a Boston Herald story titled, HOW THE SOX BUILT '78 WONDER TEAM. Then the Yanks began a two-month assault on the Red Sox lead and by Sept. 16 led Boston by 3 1/2 games, prompting New York third baseman Graig Nettles to say of the Sox, "I don't feel sorry for them -- I pity them."

But Boston won their last eight games of the season to tie the Yankees, leaving Red Sox fans with a one-game shot at absolution for 60 years of torment. But for many of those fans there was a sense of dread: Said one fearful follower that day, "They got our parents, and now the sonsuvbitches are coming to get us."

The tension in Fenway Park was nearly overwhelming. The Yankee starter was Ron Guidry, who came in at 24-3. Leading off the second for Boston, 39-year- old Carl Yastrzemski guessed right on a Guidry fastball and buzzed it inside the rightfield foul pole. Red Sox 1, Yankees 0. The homer unleashed the crowd, and by the bottom of the sixth it looked as if the Sox might blow the game open. Jim Rice singled in Burleson. Guidry then intentionally walked Carlton Fisk to pitch to Fred Lynn with two on, two out.

"I knew Guidry didn't have his good stuff at that point," Yankee rightfielder Lou Piniella would say later. "I realized Lynn could pull him. So I moved over towards the line six or eight steps." Lynn smashed a line drive into the corner in right, but Piniella grabbed it just before it hit the low wall. Lynn later asked, "What was he doing out of position? How lucky can he be?"

With two out, two on and a 2-0 lead in the seventh, Sox starter Mike Torrez faced number 9 hitter Bucky Dent. After ball one, Dent fouled a pitch off his foot and limped out of the batter's box. Mickey Rivers, the on-deck hitter, noticed a crack in Dent's bat and gave him another. Dent used it to make history.

At the end of its arc the ball nestled into the screen just inside the leftfield foul pole: Yankees 3, Red Sox 2. How it got to be 5-2 is little remembered: an RBI double by Thurman Munson off reliever Bob Stanley, and a solo blast by Reggie Jackson in the top of the eighth.

But for this 163rd game of the season, the difference could not be three runs -- it had to be one. In the bottom of the eighth, as if the game were scripted by the baseball gods, the Sox scored twice. Then, with one out, one on in the ninth, Jerry Remy jumped a Goose Gossage fastball and hit a line drive to right. In the late October sun Piniella could not see the ball. "I knew it was headed towards me," he said. "I just had to wait for it to come into sight and react like a hockey goalie."

The ball landed in front of him and kicked up to his left; Piniella flashed out his glove and speared it. "If it had gone by me," he said, "it would've rolled to the bullpen, Remy would've had an inside-the-park homer, and he would forever be remembered as the man who ended the Curse. Instead, I got lucky."

Rice flied to right center, and with Red Sox on first and third, it was all set up for one final two-out, bottom-of-the-ninth shoot-out between Gossage, the premier fastball pitcher of his time, and Yaz, arguably the premier fastball hitter of his. I was crouched in an aisle near the Boston dugout; after the first pitch, ball one, I turned to a companion and said, "Yaz always wins in these moments."

Gossage's second pitch was 90-something miles an hour, and just as Yastrzemski began his swing, the ball ran in on him. "That I was not prepared for," Yaz said later. The pop-up soared over the third base coach's box, and when it finally came down, Nettles squeezed it. The one-run difference between the two best teams in baseball belonged to the Yankees.

Gossage would later say, "In some situations there are no losers, only winners. That was one of them." But while the Yankees went on to win the world championship, the Red Sox, for all they had accomplished, were just another second-place team.

Article courtesy of...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/images/logos/sitelogo_large.gif (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/2000/03/22/yanks_redsox)

[BigFan14]

Let's face it, the Bosox Yankee rivalry is only a rivalry to the Bosox fan. I have never heard a "Red Sox Suck" chant, but hear the "Yankees Suck" chant even at the football championship rally.....totally classless I must say.

Again a rivalry is only a rivalry when both teams have an equal chance of winning. The red sox have only won 5 East Championships and 4 AL Pennants ...a long time since 1918....and the Yankees have 38 pennants...this is not a rivalry.


But the hottest and best rivalry I have lived is the south versus north rivalry. The best of which was the Atlanta Braves Versus the NY Yankees in 1996 when the Braves were up 2-0.

The south hate the Yankees--it's a north=south thing. (as in the civil war era).

There was so much cow dung thrown in my face after the Braves went up 2-0. But it then went the next four in the Yankees favor and another WS Champion

That my friends was and is a great rivalry!!!

[YankeeMan]

Yeah, but since the Atlanta Braves have NEVER beaten the Yankees for the title, they're not really rivials, according to your logic.

In fact, NO ONE RIVALS THE YANKEES!!!

The score is:
Yankees 26
"The other team" 9 (at most!)

It would take the second best teams (A's/Cardinals -- 9 titles) 17 World Series titles to catch up!

[brainofj21]

What's the "main" ingredient that makes the great rivalries stand the test of time? Is it geography, personalities, comparable talent level, or just pride? But, all teams have these components. So, what's the ONE thing that makes so few rivalrys {ex. Bos/NY} so strong for so long?... -......-


I think a good rivalry has a little bit of all of those factors involved. But the main factor that comes into a rivalry is how much each team's fans hate the other team's fans and team. I'm a Braves fan and I hate the Mets. I hate the Mets and I can't stand their fans. Red Sox fans hate Yankee fans and the Yankees. It's got to be deep down dislike for the rivalry to last. Like the new "rivalries" between the Yankees and Athletics or Mariners, do you really think 10 years from now people will still remember them? Not likely. But people will still be talking about the Red Sox and Yankees, Dodgers and Giants, and Mets and Braves. I also think jealousy has alot to do with the rivalries in any sport. Red Sox fans are jealous of the Yankees. The Mets are jealous of the Braves and the Yankees. Even though they more than likely not admit to being jealous but it's true in most cases.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by brainofj21
I think a good rivalry has a little bit of all of those factors involved. But the main factor that comes into a rivalry is how much each team's fans hate the other team's fans and team. I'm a Braves fan and I hate the Mets. I hate the Mets and I can't stand their fans. Red Sox fans hate Yankee fans and the Yankees. It's got to be deep down dislike for the rivalry to last. Like the new "rivalries" between the Yankees and Athletics or Mariners, do you really think 10 years from now people will still remember them? Not likely. But people will still be talking about the Red Sox and Yankees, Dodgers and Giants, and Mets and Braves. I also think jealousy has alot to do with the rivalries in any sport. Red Sox fans are jealous of the Yankees. The Mets are jealous of the Braves and the Yankees. Even though they more than likely not admit to being jealous but it's true in most cases.


I was just thinking of great rivalries in other sports that I remember experiencing. In the early 70's the Boston Bruins {with Bobby Orr} had a fierce rivalry going with the New York Rangers {with Brad Park}. There wouldn't be more than 4-6 points separating them at the end of every season. BTW YM - New York/Brad Park always chased but, NEVER caught Boston/Bobby Orr for 1st place, or the Stanley Cup. EX.-{1972 Finals @ Madison Square Garden}..http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/clap.gif..
But, I digress...
My point is I think to make a great rivalry, you need 2 teams to play the regular season in the same division for many years and the playoff structure allows them a chance to advance and play each other for all the marbles.

[brainofj21]

BTW, the Mets-Braves rivialry is prbably not even in the top 10 in baseball. It's merely transitory.


You got to be joking? Name me 10 rivalries that are better? Sports Illustrated ranked it as the 3rd best rivalry in baseball.
It might be a young rivalry, since the divisions were different until 95, but it's a heated one. They played each other in the 99 NLCS, they used to battle each other every year for the NL east. Of coarse the Mets are awful now but every Braves fan still wants to beat the Mets and every Mets fan wants to beat the Braves. It doesn't have the history of the Red Sox vs. Yankees but it's still heated. With Glavine jumping sides this year, it should be interesting to play them this year to say the least.

[KenFougere]

BOSTON -- Right after the final out Sunday, Red Sox manager Grady Little was eagerly anticipating the next game at Fenway Park.
By beating the Anaheim Angels 5-3 Sunday,

The Boston Red Sox tied the Yankees for first place in the American League East.

And starting Monday night, the Yankees will start a three-game series at Fenway Park in Boston.

"I think those baseball gods kind of work in weird ways, don't they?" Little said.
"On the eve before the Yankees are coming into town, they kind of put us in a tie and I don't guess that any of us would have it any other way," he said.
The Red Sox and Yankees have not played this season. Pedro Martinez will pitch Tuesday night for Boston and Roger Clemens will start the finale Wednesday night for the Yankees.

Next week is the rematch in New York.

I say it again, nothing else compares to this!

[Mattingly]

If anyone has YES, there's an interesting piece this evening, which continues.

"The Rivalry That Ruth Built. A look at the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry "

Please check the date and times (http://www.yesnetwork.com/network/index.cfm?cont_id=97453).

[KenFougere]

Now, I heard somewhere that New York starters were in a slump of late. {They must of meant the Mets...}
Who pitched against Texas & Toronto???? [/I].... :rolleyes:..... ;)

[BC498]

Originally posted by A Satch In Time Whiffs Nine
Wow. That must be some riveting television.

You're not kidding. You should see the shots! Sometimes its Mike, sometimes it Dog, sometimes its Mike and Dog.

P.S. I guess I'll give yankeeman the honors tonight.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Now, I heard somewhere that New York starters were in a slump of late. {They must of meant the Mets...}
Who pitched against Texas & Toronto???? [/I].... :rolleyes:..... ;) 4-run 9th!
What a GAME.
BOTTOM 9TH - Yanks MAN ON THIRD! ____!

[YankeeMan]

Hideki Matsui!!!

FINAL
May 28th, 2003
YANKS 6
BoSox 5

Yankees lead season series 4-2

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Hideki Matsui!!!

FINAL
May 28th, 2003
YANKS 6
BoSox 5
Still, WHAT A GAME!

That's Baseball at it's VERY BEST!!

I'd loved to have been a fly on your wall when we tied it!
I can imagine the adjectives!

{How long has the home-plate umpire been on NY payroll?} :rolleyes: ;)

[YankeeMan]

How long have you been a BoSox fan Ken? We always win in the end. :eek: :p :D

[Biggerin]

I'm gonna say sox beat clemens, and win second game, then maybe lose a hearbreaker on the third game.

boy did I pick a bad time to go two outta three ><

so... what was that ump's name again? no reason... oh, and his home address? Not that I wanna do anything necessarily "bad" to him... I mean, what's "bad" mean anyway... for example, was that a "bad" pitch? Maybe my version of bad isn't the same as his version. Just like his version of a ball may in some places, for example earth, would be a strike.

Well, this certainly brings out the yankee-hater in me, and that's a good thing :) It's gonna feel a lot better at the end of the season when we're in the world series and the yanks aren't.

[YankeeMan]

The pitch (2-2) you refer to was inside. I know this because the umpire said so. :eek: :p :waving

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
How long have you been a BoSox fan Ken? We always win in the end. :eek: :p :D

[list=1]
Since the year the Triple Crown in hitting was last won.

No one always wins {doesn't apply to loses}

Your closer {entire bullpen, really} is suspect.
[/list=1]

[YankeeMan]

Okay, we win about 26% of the time -- see text below

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
The pitch (2-2) you refer to was inside. I know this because the umpire said so. :eek: :p :waving
I recall saying the same thing Re: the Snow-Bowl game!!!!!

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
[list=1]
Since the year the Triple Crown was last won.
No one always wins {doesn't apply to looses}...
Your closer {entire bullpen, really} is big time suspect.
[/list=1] Wasn't this Affirmed over Alydar in 1978? Must've been something getting thrown into the middle of that *huge* rivalry back then.

I'd agree that no one always wins in the end, but I'm happy with the results the past few decades. :)

While our pen may be suspect at times, I think that when you look at Osuna, Contreras and HItchcock (the last two of whom have starting capabilities), then we're not as bad off as some believe. Acevedo I wouldn't think is truly deserving to be on a contending team unless he becomes more consistent.

For Mo Rivera and tonight's blown save, he hasn't been out there much, and every closer has blown saves. Even Gossage blew one in the 1984 WS against Detroit, just as Eckersley did in the 1988 WS against the Dodgers' Kirk Gibson. I'm still 100% behind Mo.

Speaking of rivalries, what about fans? I've seen quite a few Boston fans in Manhattan recently during the series. How are Yankee fans treated in Boston when wearing their Yankee tee shirts and caps?

[codyvo]

For teams with such hatred for each other haven't their been a lot of players that have played ever so happily for both teams. Even the "The Great Bambino" and "The Rocket" have played for both of the great enemies not to mention Wade Boggs, so maybe the bitter feud is only between the fans.

[A Satch In Time Whiffs Nine]

How are Yankee fans treated in Boston when wearing their Yankee tee shirts and caps?

I lived in Boston for 8 years and I think Yankee fans who wear their garb around the city generally don't encounter any problems. At Fenway, it might be a different story -- especially if you're in the bleachers and you're calling attention to yourself (i.e. -- standing up and taunting the crowd).

I was at one of the Sox-Yankee games at Fenway last week (the one where Chen pitched) and the trouble I saw only started when this idiot in a Jeter jersey stood up numerous times to egg on the crowd. That's just asking for trouble -- and of course he got it in the form of thrown food and beer.

Of course, I've been to Sox-Yankee games at Fenway were Yankee fans have said nothing, and still gotten tons of crap from the Sox crowd.

(And yes, I admit it: I've dished out my share.).

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by codyvo
For teams with such hatred for each other haven't their been a lot of players that have played ever so happily for both teams. Even the "The Great Bambino" and "The Rocket" have played for both of the great enemies not to mention Wade Boggs, so maybe the bitter feud is only between the fans.

The players feel and feed off the rivalry while playing. I think it makes them play better in those games.
The DEEP passion of the rivalry, which you call hate, I think is embedded forever in the fans... ;)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Okay, we win about 26% of the time -- see text below

Only you, could admit being wrong ....and still come out with a win!






{ya son of a ....} :rolleyes:

[BC498]

Originally posted by KenFougere
{ya son of a ....} :rolleyes:

pitcher?

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by BC498

pitcher?


http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/hmm.gif Acually, I'm not sure what his father does for a living . . .

{But, I do know he's got some family issues to deal with...} http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/nod.gif

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by A Satch In Time Whiffs Nine
I lived in Boston for 8 years and I think Yankee fans who wear their garb around the city generally don't encounter any problems. At Fenway, it might be a different story -- especially if you're in the bleachers and you're calling attention to yourself (i.e. -- standing up and taunting the crowd).

I was at one of the Sox-Yankee games at Fenway last week (the one where Chen pitched) and the trouble I saw only started when this idiot in a Jeter jersey stood up numerous times to egg on the crowd. That's just asking for trouble -- and of course he got it in the form of thrown food and beer.

Of course, I've been to Sox-Yankee games at Fenway were Yankee fans have said nothing, and still gotten tons of crap from the Sox crowd.

(And yes, I admit it: I've dished out my share.). Both Rickey Henderson and David Cone have played for each of the Yanks, BoSox and Mets. In addition, Mike Torrez also pitched for both, but that's all I can remember.

In the Yanks bleachers, opposing fans routinely get called "a**h**e" if wearing an opposing team's gear, even if playing Tampa (which obviously has no fans), with Boston fans getting the worst of it, even if it's not when their team is playing. From what I've seen, if it's a Yankee-Red Sox game and a Boston fan dares to wear their gear in the bleachers, they'll hear it from the crowd, but I don't see any fighting, throwing food, spilling beer or anything like that. If they just cheer on their team, no taunts, we'll just turn around and give them a "so there!" type of look if we get a good RBI hit off one of their pitchers. If they cheer on their team respectfully, they'll still hear it, but not as much backlash as if they're nonsensical smack talkers who don't know much about their team's history.

If referring to busloads of Boston fans cheering "Yankees s*ck", that's something different. No team would want that in their own stadium, and I'm sure Boston fans would be no different if we can into Fenway chanting that about their team. While I'll congratulate you people for your faithfulness to travel with your team a few hundred miles south, those chants I'm pretty tired of.

I too will admit having given Boston fans lots to hear, but then again, I probably wouldn't be much of a Yankee fan otherwise, now would I? ;)

Oh well, at least we got 2 out of 3, even if the third one was pretty ugly. :D :p

[YankeeMan]

I wonder if the "Red Sox Nation" enjoyed the brief stay in first place. Sheesh, I thought they'd hold it a couple of weeks at least. :confused: :choke: :eek: :laugh ;) :waving
:gt

[BC498]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
I wonder if the "Red Sox Nation" enjoyed the brief stay in first place. Sheesh, I thought they'd hold it a couple of weeks at least. :confused: :choke: :eek: :laugh ;) :waving
:gt

I would say its about time to switch those flags in the outfield, no?

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
I wonder if the "Red Sox Nation" enjoyed the brief stay in first place. Sheesh, I thought they'd hold it a couple of weeks at least. :confused: :choke: :eek: :laugh ;) :waving
:gt

Yes! Congratulations on kicking ass on the team who to date totals what..THIRTEEN WINS! Way to go!:laugh

[YankeeMan]

I'm not sure... But didn't we beat BoSux 4 outta six? :eek: :p ;) :waving :laugh

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
I'm not sure... But didn't we beat BoSOx 4 outta six? :eek: :p ;) :waving :laugh To quote someone who earlier made an astute observation...
====>"It's only May..."<====
..........;) ...........:waving ...........:p

[YankeeMan]

Yep, I was really hoping you guys would hold out until August or September before youz guyz faded... ;)

ala 1978... :D

[KenFougere]

Red Sox were the last team to not loose 3 straight this season . . .
{ . . . until now that is}..:rolleyes:..

[YankeeMan]

...and going for six!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
...and going for six! No...I don't think it will take Clemens six starts to reach #300.
;)

{seriously now, wouldn't it be great if he could reach 4000K's in his 300th win!} :cool: Now that's something no one would ever duplicate!

[CardFanNV]

Originally posted by KenFougere
No...I don't think it will take Clemens six starts to reach #300.
;)

{seriously now, wouldn't it be great if he could reach 4000K's in his 300th win!} :cool: Now that's something no one would ever duplicate!


NEWSFLASH: Ken, he's been setting it up that way the last two starts.

When was the last time Roger Clemens gave up 8 and 6 runs in consecutive starts? Has it EVER happened?

[Biggerin]

I've come to the conclusion that ken and yankeeman are, in fact, the same person with multiple personalities.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Biggerin
I've come to the conclusion that ken and yankeeman are, in fact, the same person with multiple personalities.

WOW . . . I don't know who's gonna kringe the most at that statement, Yankeeman or ME ! . . . :laugh

[PopTop]

Finally got around to reading most of the posts here that have been made since the thread first appeared a few months ago ... WHEW! ... It really did turn into the Sox-Yanks thread, didn't it?! ... For the record, the two biggest posters in the thread have been Ken with a whopping 145 (some team Forums don't have that many posts!) and YankeeMan a distant 2nd with 187.

So for my 4th post in the thread, what about the Astros-Red Sox or Astros-Yankees rivalries? ... Hey, it was worth a try since Houston is traveling through the Bronx and Beantown next week for their first appearances at both The Stadium and Fenway.

And on the other end of the rivalry spectrum, how about the Astros and Orioles who are meeting for the very first time this week in Houston ... Pretty odd that the two have NEVER played each other at least in a spring training game or two.

[CardFanNV]

Pop ......................

Didn't the Yanks play the Stros in the first game in the Astrodome?

[aroundthehorn]

Originally posted by KenFougere
No...I don't think it will take Clemens six starts to reach #300.
;)

{seriously now, wouldn't it be great if he could reach 4000K's in his 300th win!} :cool: Now that's something no one would ever duplicate!

It's pretty simple to see what he was referring too, it's not about it taking Clemens 6 starts to get win #300 at all (if it did take that long, something is seriously wrong with Roger)

Originally, you posted that the Red Sox had lost 3 in a row finally, the last team to do that this season...

... and going for six. Means that with a loss tonight in Pittsburgh, Boston will have been defeated for 6 games in a row, double the 3 in a row that they accomplished this past weekend in Toronto.

[PopTop]

Correctamundo, CardFan ... The first exhibition games played in both the Astrodome and the new Arthur Andersen Memorial Stadium downtown featured the Yankees as the opposition ... Houston won both games, with Mantle and Ledee hitting the first "unofficial" homers in both parks.

[CardFanNV]

Originally posted by PopTop
Correctamundo, CardFan ... The first exhibition games played in both the Astrodome and the new Arthur Andersen Memorial Stadium downtown featured the Yankees as the opposition ... Houston won both games, with Mantle and Ledee hitting the first "unofficial" homers in both parks.

I was much more enamored with the nicknames "Ten-run" Field and Bancruptcy Park ......................

Both located in beautiful Stockscam, TX. Just across from the Martha Stewart Home for Wayward Investor Girls ..................

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by aroundthehorn
It's pretty simple to see what he was referring too, it's not about it taking Clemens 6 starts to get win #300 at all (if it did take that long, something is seriously wrong with Roger)

Originally, you posted that the Red Sox had lost 3 in a row finally, the last team to do that this season...

... and going for six. Means that with a loss tonight in Pittsburgh, Boston will have been defeated for 6 games in a row, double the 3 in a row that they accomplished this past weekend in Toronto. Yes, I know what he meant. The smilie at the end is winking... ;)
{It's the rivalry thing - you try to give no satisfaction. So, "tongue in cheek" is usually the rule.} . . . :rolleyes: . . . ;) Get it?

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by Biggerin
I've come to the conclusion that ken and yankeeman are, in fact, the same person with multiple personalities.

I have never been so insulted in all my life. ;)

BTW Ken, I knew that you knew and you knew that I knew, ya' know?

Speaking of rivials... The Yanks lost 3-4 to the Reds today. http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/mecry.gif

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
I've come to the conclusion that ken and yankeeman are, in fact, the same person with multiple personalities. I'll admit to having been VT Sox Fan in another life, but who's counting reincarnations anyway?

[VTSoxFan]

Hey that's news to me! What else has my astral body been doing when I'm not paying attention? Good grief! Is there a past life regression therapist in the house? :p How'd I get dragged into this, anyway?

[Biggerin]

Yeah, I gotta agree with that one, too...

[aroundthehorn]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Yes, I know what he meant. The smilie at the end is winking... ;)
{It's the rivalry thing - you try to give no satisfaction. So, "tongue in cheek" is usually the rule.} . . . :rolleyes: . . . ;) Get it?

I got it, I dig what you're saying, sorry but I had a little cork on the brain !!!

[mikey_s]

When did this thread start???

How did it get to 16 pages???

there are 4800 views and 400 posts.....

Is this a record.......

Maybe this thread should be locked.......

Maybe WE should be locked up???

[Biggerin]

no way!

This thread deserves the "Best... Thread... Evar" award.

[YankeeMan]

I'm the Mod here = "fat chance"

This is the "best thread ever" -- in any fourm.

[YankeeMan]

This is the 400th Post in the thread!

& the Red Sox have still not won a World Series. ;)

[razors]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by YankeeMan:
"This is the 400th Post in the thread!"


yeah and it wasn't a bad read for the first 100 or so...

i wonder how many of the posts are just banter between you and Ken...not sure there's been anything additive to the thread subject in many moons, except maybe someone wants a record?

enough already...

who's the moderator here... :rolleyes:


razors

[Sandman]

Originally posted by razors
"This is the 400th Post in the thread!"
who's the moderator here...
That would be YankeeMan:p :p

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by razors
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YankeeMan:
"This is the 400th Post in the thread!"
yeah and it wasn't a bad read for the first 100 or so...
i wonder how many of the posts are [i]just banter between you and Ken...not sure there's been anything additive to the thread subject in many moons, except maybe someone wants a record?
enough already...
who's the moderator here... :rolleyes: razors
The "banter", as you call it, is between two very opinionated baseball fans extending what their two teams have been involved in for a century, it's called a rivalry. {see title page} It's your choice to come here to read and add your thoughts to the thread. It's also your choice not to . . .
http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/wavey.gif . . . ;) . . . :D

[Biggerin]

nono... not "best thread ever" its:

"best...thread...evar!!!11!"

The 'a' and 1's in the !'s are mandatory.

Anyway, this really is the best thread ever, at least on this forum. It's fun. It's yankees vs. redsox, back to back with insults and all that good stuff.

love it.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by VTSoxFan
Hey that's news to me! What else has my astral body been doing when I'm not paying attention? Good grief! Is there a past life regression therapist in the house? :p How'd I get dragged into this, anyway? Yeah, when you were in the Fenway or Yankee Stadium bleachers, the Bronx bodysnatchers replaced your "LETS GO RED SOX!" with "LET'S GO YANKEES!"

How'd you get dragged into it? I had to drag some unwilling soul into this thread, didn't I? :)

[Biggerin]

just thought I'd mention that the sox are in first place again. :)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Biggerin
just thought I'd mention that the sox are in first place again. :)

Originally posted by YankeeMan - updated by Ken

I wonder if the "Yankee Nation" enjoyed the brief stay in first place. Sheesh, I thought they'd hold it a couple of weeks at least. :confused: :choke: :eek: :laugh ;) :waving
:gt

Truer words . . .

[VTSoxFan]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Yeah, when you were in the Fenway or Yankee Stadium bleachers, the Bronx bodysnatchers replaced your "LETS GO RED SOX!" with "LET'S GO YANKEES!"

How'd you get dragged into it? I had to drag some unwilling soul into this thread, didn't I? :)

AUGH! never never never never! My non-corporeal form is just as loyal to the Sox as the rest of me, and can not be turned, no matter what the nefarious Bronx bodysnatchers may try. (I see a movie... or at least a comic book, in this.)

Are you guys enjoying your stay at the Great American Ballpark?:D We sure are enjoying your stay there!:p

[razors]

Originally posted by KenFougere:
"The "banter", as you call it, is between two very opinionated baseball fans extending what their two teams have been involved in for a century, it's called a rivalry. {see title page} It's your choice to come here to read and add your thoughts to the thread. It's also your choice not to . . . "


Thanks for letting me know my choices on involvement in this forum KenFougere! :)

Anyway, you may think that you are extending a [bitter] rivalry {see title page} - I think you're extending a thread for the sake of it...no harm in that -AT ALL- most GOOD forums end-up having a thread like this once in a while...

...I just happen to think that the best threads are those that have a bit more substance for the majority...I hate to miss a good post because it's buried in an inordinantly long thread...but no big whoop KenFougere, stay cool :cool: - I'm glad you're having fun...



razors


[For your edification KenFougere, in case I have mis-characterized your interaction with the Yankeeman.

Banter:
NOUN: Good-humored, playful conversation.
TRANSITIVE VERB: To speak to in a playful or teasing way.
INTRANSITIVE VERB: To exchange mildly teasing remarks]

[mikey_s]

Originally posted by razors
[B]
Anyway, you may think that you are extending a [bitter] rivalry {see title page} - I think you're extending a thread for the sake of it...

...I just happen to think that the best threads are those that have a bit more substance for the majority...I hate to miss a good post because it's buried in an inordinantly long thread...


Hey Razor I gotta butt in here ('cause I am an A-hole sometimes :grouchy )

...aint you (actually we :D ) doin the same thing?

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by VTSoxFan
AUGH! never never never never! My non-corporeal form is just as loyal to the Sox as the rest of me, and can not be turned, no matter what the nefarious Bronx bodysnatchers may try. (I see a movie... or at least a comic book, in this.)

Are you guys enjoying your stay at the Great American Ballpark?:D We sure are enjoying your stay there!:p The Bronx Bodysnatchers aren't finished. Remember, it's still June. Let's see what happens after the break, if history is any indication! :D :laugh

With Pettitte, it was sloppy "D" including on his own part. With Moose, it was 4 balls golfed as souvenirs. Hope that Contreras can stable this ship, as you guys haven't led us by more than 1/2 game all season so far.

[razors]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mikey_s:
"Hey Razor I gotta butt in here ('cause I am an A-hole sometimes :grouchy )

...aint you (actually we :D ) doin the same thing?"




yep!!! but like i said no big whoop, just no where near the best thread ever...this thread really has nothing to do with bitter rivalries anymore and when 2-300 (or more) of the posts are from just 2 people i wish they'd start a new one...

something like:

"Why KenFougere and YankeeMan like to 'post' to eachother several times a day ;), intead of e-mail or PMs"

...and if i keep on 'whinging' then this thread could reach a 1000 posts in not time (please tell me this thread'll die before then, please!)...


cheers :)



razors

[YankeeMan]

If we use PM's or e-mail -- other Yankee (and BoSux) fans don't get a chance to "chime in" -- which is part of the fun!

But this topic is not limited to ONE rivialry. Others are welcome but it is clear that ONE is a lot more vocal.

[Mattingly]

With the Yanks (34-25, .576) and Boston (33-24, .579) tied at 1st, who blinks first?

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
With the Yanks (34-25, .576) and Boston (33-24, .579) tied at 1st, who blinks first?
[list=1]
New York Yankees...34W 25L .576

Boston Red Sox.......33W 25L .569 ½ GB
[/list=1]

[Mattingly]

Ken, Sportsline's not giving me the right facts. I figured since both games were done, they'd have it right. I'd thought it was only a 1/2 game lead, but after you'd had the double-header, I must've gotten a few wires scrambled. :o

This is what I was looking at originally: http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/standings (shows a tie)

This is what I should've looked at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings (shows just as you've indicated)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Ken, Sportsline's not giving me the right facts. I figured since both games were done, they'd have it right. I'd thought it was only a 1/2 game lead, but after you'd had the double-header, I must've gotten a few wires scrambled. :o

This is what I was looking at originally: http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/standings (shows a tie)

This is what I should've looked at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings (shows just as you've indicated)

CBS Sportsline.com updates all statistics in the morning {once-a-day}

ESPN.com updates continuously . . . ;)

[i8mytoes]

As far as rivalries in other sports that compare to the BoSox-Yanks....

AUBURN VS. ALABAMA..... THE IRON BOWL.

These two schools, as well as their fans, absolutely despise each other.

I honestly can't even begin to put into words the intensity of this rivalry... GOD, It's AWESOME!

All I can say is that I feel priveledged to be part of such a special tradition.

AND, WAR DAMN EAGLE!

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
CBS Sportsline.com updates all statistics in the morning {once-a-day}

ESPN.com updates continuously . . . ;) Cripes, no wonder everybody prefers ESPN.com. I remember that at least an hour after a game, sportsline.com would have the proper standings, but I'll need to use a more reliable source now.

Oh well, first place smells mighty fine, but I'll have to hope it still smells sweet this time tomorrow, as the first place baton keeps being passed up.

For poster i8mytoes, I'd add Army-Navy as far as college football, Duke-Tar Heels for NCAA hoops, and the old Knicks/Celtics/Lakers tri-team rivalries of the 1970s and 1980s weren't anything to sneeze at either.

[BC498]

Well if we're going into other sports, the Rangers/Flyers is a heated one. And then there are those fishermen on Long Island.
Then again, once upon a time there was the prolific scoring defensemen, who skated with the grace of a gazelle Brad Park and that Orr guy. Not to mention the G.A.G. (goal-a-game) line.

But I would have to say that the Red Sox rivalry is the greatest rivalry (in the US anyway) with the exception of The Bums in the 40s and 50s.

P.S. Ken, gotta love those 1903 unis. The Pittsburgh baseball club? How much longer until we see the White Sox in shorts again? Still, the baggy uniforms are at least better than the bright red Sunday jerseys the Sox trot out nowadays.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by BC498

Then again, once upon a time there was the prolific scoring defensemen, who skated with the grace of a gazelle Brad Park and that Orr guy. Not to mention the G.A.G. (goal-a-game) line.

YM...Just a short digression from baseball

Gold Color for Bruins
[list=1]
That Orr guy?
Park was a distant #2

Goal A Game line?
Rattelle-Hadfield-Gilbert was #2 compared to Esposito-Hodge-Cashman
*In 1971, 7 Bruins were in the Top-10
scoring!

Rangers were always #2 in those seasons
[/list=1] . . . :p

[cheesycow]

It never ceases to amaze me that the cubs seem to get more recognition than the cardinals as far as history goes.

Cardinals: 9 titles, 15 NL pennants

Cubs: 1908

I think the cardinals-yankees is the best interleague matchup, most of the others are just geographic. After all, if the '27 yankees were the best team of all time, they were beaten in 7 by the '26 cardinals.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by cheesycow
It never ceases to amaze me that the cubs seem to get more recognition than the cardinals as far as history goes.

Cardinals: 9 titles, 15 NL pennants

Cubs: 1908

I think the cardinals-yankees is the best interleague matchup, most of the others are just geographic. After all, if the '27 yankees were the best team of all time, they were beaten in 7 by the '26 cardinals. After Bob Gibson managed to weave his way out of trouble in Game 7 in 1964, I'd say that's something. I haven't seen all of their history, but there's something there, and we'll see you and our boy Tino in a week.

The Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants both had one fierce rivalry going on, and not just with the Yanks. When the Yanks are added, that's one reason why there's such fierce anti-Yankee feelings, as guess who kept winning in October? (not bragging here)

[cheesycow]

You bring up a good point about the yankees-cards that i didn't think about: We've got Tino, you've got Torre.

Hopefully all Tino needs to give his cardinals career a jump is a trip back to the friendly confines of the house that ruth built.

(crosses fingers)

[Mattingly]

Actually, Tino's one great thing we have in common, someone I've often rooted for (except next weekend, of course). Anyway, he's a prime reason why lots of us will be in the Bronx cheering him on, even if he does play for the opposition.

Yeah, I remember Torre's being there. Was Bob Gibson his pitching coach there? I think he was in Atlanta, when he was the "Attitude Coach", not just the PC.

Anyway, in the 1964 WS, Game 7, Gibson was slowly fading, had the M&M Boys on deck, but managed to get the 3rd out in the 9th. Man, talk about working out of trouble!

[YankeeMan]

How 'bout them BREWERS!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
How 'bout them BREWERS!

One for the Brewsters!
. . . . http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/cheers.gif
. . . . :rolleyes:

[Biggerin]

ugg...

ya know... it's sad... neither the yankees or the sox are playing good baseball right now...

We keep going back and forth on the standings, but that only because we're both losing.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
ugg...

ya know... it's sad... neither the yankees or the sox are playing good baseball right now...

We keep going back and forth on the standings, but that only because we're both losing. Joe Torre blew Clemens' 300th opportunity by bringing in Juan Acevedo. The man couldn't pitch to save his life, and promptly gave up a 3-run HR on his first pitch.

Now that the Yanks are down 4-1, I'm going into a tiny room and sulk somewhere! Boy, this is pathetic.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Joe Torre blew Clemens' 300th opportunity by bringing in Juan Acevedo. The man couldn't pitch to save his life, and promptly gave up a 2-run HR on his first pitch.

Now that the Yanks are down 4-1, I'm going into a tiny room and sulk somewhere! Boy, this is pathetic.

Clemens should be SOOOOOO pissed-off at Torre. 80-something pitches? For Clemens? That's nothing for him... One pitch-...-gone!
... http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/angermax.gif

[Sandman]

They said at the end of the game he was having Respiratory Problems.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Clemens should be SOOOOOO pissed-off at Torre. 80-something pitches? For Clemens? That's nothing for him... One pitch-...-gone!
... http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/angermax.gif Torre's excuse was about Acevedo was that "he's in the pen". I mean, slap someone silly, but if 90 year old Grandma Mable is in the pen, does she go out also?

Osuna, Weaver, Hitchcock, someone like that who's usually reliable, that's who goes out. All they needed was 5 outs before they get to Mo Rivera, but by then, Posada's solo HR in the 9th didn't matter.

Ugly game. I mean beyond ugly!

For the pitch count, I don't know about from his Boston days, but I've seen him pitch 125 games in an 8 inning win before handing the ball to Mo Rivera at home. He seemed to be uncomfortable and losing effectiveness, but it's still a funky call.

[YankeeMan]

I questioned Torre pulling Roger the instant it happened. My wife (Cubs fan) was glad to see him go.

[Atlanta Braves Freak]

Joe Torre must have been out of his mind to pull Roger. Just think if he would have stayed in maybe the Yanks would have scored and won.

[Biggerin]

I was about to go sulk in my room tonight as the sox were down 10-4 in the 6th.

Then meuller hit a pinch hit home run, and I went back to the "Even Stevens" marathon on the disney channel. Yes, that was more entertaining than this game.

Then, keven millar hit a pinch hit grand slam to make it 10-9 :)

Then, trot nixon hit a solo shot to tie the game in the top of the ninth.

Then, jason varitek hit a solo shot to make it 11-10 red sox.

Then, mike timlin closes it out, game over...


Ahh, it's good to be a sox fan sometimes :)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
For the pitch count, I don't know about from his Boston days, but I've seen him pitch 125 games in an 8 inning win before handing the ball to Mo Rivera at home. He seemed to be uncomfortable and losing effectiveness, but it's still a funky call. [/B]

Clemens is a work-horse. He'll have no problem going 125-140 / 9innings

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Clemens is a work-horse. He'll have no problem going 125-140 / 9innings The 125 pitches was from about last August at Yankee Stadium. He'd just turned 40 then and didn't have 300 looming so close. He'd gotten behind a few hitters, allowed 1 or 2 baserunners, but runs didn't score much, had about 13 Ks.

We need to score more runs, since a 1-0 game is too close when there are 2+ innings to go, including who to use in the pen.

Hopefully, whatever bothers Clemens, be it the pressure, his cold, his super pent up energy, I hope he's OK next Friday. At least he could join Seaver in winning #300 at Ruth's house.

I'd like him to do about 110 and 6-7 innings, then someone like Osuna, Hitchcock or Weaver can go through the 8th, then Mo picks it up. Hopefully, that script will be followed and we'll finally win against the Cards.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
The 125 pitches was from about last August at Yankee Stadium. He'd just turned 40 then and didn't have 300 looming so close. He'd gotten behind a few hitters, allowed 1 or 2 baserunners, but runs didn't score much, had about 13 Ks.

We need to score more runs, since a 1-0 game is too close when there are 2+ innings to go, including who to use in the pen.

Hopefully, whatever bothers Clemens, be it the pressure, his cold, his super pent up energy, I hope he's OK next Friday. At least he could join Seaver in winning #300 at Ruth's house.

I'd like him to do about 110 and 6-7 innings, then someone like Osuna, Hitchcock or Weaver can go through the 8th, then Mo picks it up. Hopefully, that script will be followed and we'll finally win against the Cards.


I keep forgetting he's alot older now . . .
The only time Clemens would need 140 pitches, is a night he didn't have his good stuff and was struggling. I really am pulling for him to reach both 4000th K & 300th Win in the same night . . .

[baseballwise]

YankeeMan...please tell your wife, one Cub fan to another from me, that I was VERY disappointed to see Rocket leave the game. After the Choi incident, his loss took the wind out of the game's sails....until the Cubs won, of course.

Torre said Clemens had an upper respiratory infection which caused his retreat and he did a lot of coughing in the dugout during tonight's game.

All's well that ends well.....so I'm happy the Cubs were able to help put the Red Sox a half game into first place as we took two games. Also great to see Sam get hit # 2,000!

[KenFougere]

[list=1]
Both teams better beware of incoming Cardinals!


Boston Red Sox .......35 - 26

New York Yankees....35 - 27 ½
[/list=1]

*{ Gee...tough weekend in Wrigley huh...:D }

[brewcrew82]

Originally posted by KenFougere
[list=1]
Both teams better beware of incoming Cardinals!


Boston Red Sox .......35 - 26

New York Yankees....35 - 27 ½
[/list=1]

*{ Gee...tough weekend in Wrigley huh...:D }

But come on you played the Brewers...You were lucky to get 2 of 3 from us! ;)

[NickG]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
I questioned Torre pulling Roger the instant it happened. My wife (Cubs fan) was glad to see him go.

I questioned it too -- a Cubs fan and a Yankee hater was happy to see him go... strange how these things work out, huh?

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by brewcrew82
But come on you played the Brewers...You were lucky to get 2 of 3 from us! ;)

That late-inning comeback from 6 runs down Saturday was heroic,

not lucky... Sunday's 9-1 win was due to a solid outing by Lowe

and your guy pitching batting practice to the Sox . . . :D . . . ;)


{Please make sure to thank him for us!..:waving}

[brewcrew82]

I'm not taking away from todays 9-1 win...I KNEW you guys would take that one, you had Lowe...we had Glendon Rusch (1-9 this year, with his lone win vs. Pitt).

If we had a decent bullpen, the second game may have turned out a touch different!

[brewcrew82]

As for thanking him...YOU CAN HAVE HIM!!!!!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by brewcrew82
If we had a decent bullpen, the second game may have turned out a touch different!

Believe me, boy, do I know that! Homeruns were flying out for us that night just when we needed them ...
Again, our heartfelt thanks to the Brewers staff! . . ;) . . :D

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by baseballwise

All's well that ends well.....
so I'm happy the Cubs were able to help put the Red Sox a half game into first place
as we took two games. Also great to see Sam get hit #2,000!

http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/biggthumpup.gif . . Baseballwise,
Congratulations on a very successful weekend! . . . http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/clap.gif

[Mattingly]

[quote]I keep forgetting he's alot older now . . .
The only time Clemens would need 140 pitches, is a night he didn't have his good stuff and was struggling. I really am pulling for him to reach both 4000th K & 300th Win in the same night . . . Normally with Clemens, a high pitch count indicates he's gotten behind a lot of batters and has needed to work harder than necessary. He guts it out and makes the 2-out 2-runner strikeout or ground that he needs, but more laborous than necessary.

He should get 300/4,000, since he's now at 299/3,996. We'll see how fiesty St Louis is this weekend. Hopefully Saturday, since I'm not sure how Clemens feels about Friday the 13th.

[KenFougere]

The silence is {a welcome change} but deafening ...

It's been awfully quite down there in Mudville...
Is the reality a bit disheartening that his superYman team is vulnerable this season?

[Mattingly]

Quoted by Ken:

"The silence is {a welcome change} but deafening ...

It's been awfully quite down there in Mudville...
Is the reality a bit disheartening that his superYman team is vulnerable this season?"

I'm curious, why do you use quotes when posting? :)

Every team's vulnerable. Of course, if a team picks it up and has a good series, that always puts a smile on my face.

My next test is to see who has a better series against St Louis. Boston or the Yanks.

[YankeeMan]

Sorry I've been MIA but I was at Wrigley!

[aroundthehorn]

Hope you had fun at Wrigley, watching the very healthy future of pitching in baseball: Wood and Prior :D mow 'em down 21 times.

How long they stay with the Cubs is anyone's guess ?
But as long as they are in contention, now is the time to get Mike Lowell at 3B to solidify the run for the NL crown.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Sorry I've been MIA but I was at Wrigley!

Have a good time, buddy? :D

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Quoted by Ken:

"The silence is {a welcome change} but deafening ...

It's been awfully quite down there in Mudville...
Is the reality a bit disheartening that his superYman team is vulnerable this season?"

I'm curious, why do you use quotes when posting? :)

Every team's vulnerable. Of course, if a team picks it up and has a good series, that always puts a smile on my face.

My next test is to see who has a better series against St Louis. Boston or the Yanks.

St. Louis will be a very tough series for both Boston and New York. They look like a powerful offensive team . . . . . . :(

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
St. Louis will be a very tough series for both Boston and New York. They look like a powerful offensive team . . . . . . :( Maybe Tino will be extra batty this week, but cool down a bit this weekend. I think he's used to doing his best against a certain team in Fenway. :D

[KenFougere]

I think it'll all come down to whose pitching staff recovers the quickest and remains strong the longest. We all know that Boston, New York and Toronto can hit. So pitching's the difference which is why I think Toronto will fade. Pedro's is now 100% and starts on Wednesday.
Let's see if Boston can continue their success at home and if New York continues below .500 @ Yankee Stadium!. . . :D

[Mattingly]

I see you couldn't resist putting in the sub .500 thing, huh? That's alrighty, I'll get ya back! ;)

I'll put a note in to Tino that since having replaced Mattingly and Big Mac, he should get a little happy at the plate and get to the Boston pen a little early. I'll make sure that Rolens and LaRussa get the memo also.

Of course, if they take 2 of 3 at Fenway, but we take 2 of 3 against St Louis, then what's your excuse, my friend? :D :laugh

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
I see you couldn't resist putting in the sub .500 thing, huh? That's alrighty, I'll get ya back! ;)
Of course, if they take 2 of 3 at Fenway, but we take 2 of 3 against St Louis, then what's your excuse, my friend? :D :laugh

The difference could be which St.Louis pitchers start against each team.
And it looks like you're going to face their two best . . .



STL: Woody Williams (8-1) BOS: Kim (2-5)
STL: Brett Tomko (2-4) BOS: Pedro (4-2)
STL: Stephenson (3-5) BOS: Wakefield (5-2)


STL: Matt Morris (7-3) NYY: Clemens (6-4)
STL: Jason Simontacchi (4-3) NYY: AndyPet(5-6)
STL: Woody Williams (8-1) NYY: Mussina (7-4)



I think we're doing pretty good being in 1st place and having gotten there without Pedro for two weeks. He's healthy now and starts tomorrow night.

RE: Yankees home record...Last season it was the Red Sox who sucked at home! Your turn . . . ;)

[YankeeMan]

AL East Update...

1. NYY 36 27 .571 --
2. Bos 35 27 .565 .5

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
AL East Update...

1. NYY 36 27 .571 --
2. Bos 35 27 .565 .5

Back & forth...true but if Boston & New York continue playing lousey ball, we're both going to be looking up at Toronto in the standings! . . . :(

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere

STL: Matt Morris (7-3) NYY: Clemens (6-4)
STL: Jason Simontacchi (4-3) NYY: AndyPet(5-6)
STL: Woody Williams (8-1) NYY: Mussina (7-4)

I think we're doing pretty good being in 1st place and having gotten there without Pedro for two weeks. He's healthy now and starts tomorrow night.

RE: Yankees home record...Last season it was the Red Sox who sucked at home! Your turn . . . ;)When considering the Yanks, I don't think W-L or ERA mean squat. I've seen people like Texas' Chan Ho Park make mincemeat of the Yanks and he had a 7.90 ERA at the time. Clemens' W-L isn't too accurate, since he'd lost his last game in which he'd allowed no runs, but since he had two baserunners, that HR off Acevedo gave him 2 ER and the loss.

Clemens seems reliable, and I hope that Pettitte's two prior starts before his last stinker return. That's not a game I'd put money on, since I'm unsure which Andy will show up. Considering I'm not even sure if Torre will give Clemens an extra day's rest, who knows who will pitch on Friday or Saturday?

Moose looked pretty good in his last start, so if he's "on", then it could be a nice duel on Sunday.

I say it's up to the pen. Contreras is on the DL, so he wouldn't even be able to work the pen for us, but if Weaver, Hitchcock and Hammond are OK, and Osuna performs, we may get to see Mo Rivera in the game.

I hope tonight's game with Woody Williams wasn't a fluke, since Nomar and Manny got to him for 3 RBIs in the 7th. If so, Moose may do the trick.

Now why couldn't Tino have had a hit? I'll have to send him another email, this time marked "Urgent". :D :laugh

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly

Now why couldn't Tino have had a hit? I'll have to send him another email, this time marked "Urgent". :D :laugh

Don't bother with the E-Mail . . .


Tino Martinez will not play the rest of the Boston series and maybe against the New York Yankees either.
Martinez sustained a strain of the right hamstring while running out a grounder in the seventh inning.Martinez is listed as day-to-day but hopes to play Friday night.
He was hurt trying unsuccessfully to avoid an inning-ending double play and pulled up as he approached first base. He was replaced at first base in the bottom of the inning.

[BC498]

Well I hope Clemens is pushed back and Tino plays seeing as I'm going on Saturday. I said at the beginning of the year that the Blue Jays worried me (not that I thought they'd be this good) but I still think they are a year away.

Still, I like the order of the standings, hope it stays that tight into September, with the Yanks coming out on top of course.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Don't bother with the E-Mail . . .


Tino Martinez will not play the rest of the Boston series and maybe against the New York Yankees either.
Martinez sustained a strain of the right hamstring while running out a grounder in the seventh inning.Martinez is listed as day-to-day but hopes to play Friday night.
He was hurt trying unsuccessfully to avoid an inning-ending double play and pulled up as he approached first base. He was replaced at first base in the bottom of the inning.
I hadn't even realized. I was out all day and didn't check much sports news last night. Long story.

Houston pitcher Roy Oswalt, who I think is their ace, got some kind of groin injury in the 2nd inning today when pitching to Posada. I posted in the Astros forum, so if anyone gets any info, they may post there. Means a relief, since they play Boston when we play St Louis.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by BC498
Well I hope Clemens is pushed back and Tino plays seeing as I'm going on Saturday. I said at the beginning of the year that the Blue Jays worried me (not that I thought they'd be this good) but I still think they are a year away.

Still, I like the order of the standings, hope it stays that tight into September, with the Yanks coming out on top of course. I heard that Clemens is pitching on Friday. I'd rather he just get it over with, since he'll have to do it sometime this season.

[KenFougere]

End of 9th inning

.. . O H . . A . . N O . . N O ! . . . :waving
* 8 CONSECUTIVE YANKS STRUCK OUT !

[brewcrew82]

Ken, I bet that felt good!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by brewcrew82
Ken, I bet that felt good!
[list=1]
As a matter of fact, Ya, I'm rather enjoying myself tonight very much . . .
Thank-you for asking!


Boston Red Sox .......36 - 27

New York Yankees....36 - 28 ½
[/list=1]

[Biggerin]

I'd also like to add:

Boston: 13 runs, 19hits
Yankees: 0 runs, 0 hits

Don't worry yanks, we'll give you a few hits back when we're done with em. :)

[YankeeMan]

We really need to win a series at home. When's the BoSux coming to town?

[KenFougere]

Calling all cars!

* ALL POINTS BULLETIN !

A Suicide Watch is in effect for YankeeMan !

[YankeeMan]

Could you tone it down a bit? You're hurting my eyes.

It was one game. The Yanks will still win the last game of the World Series.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
We really need to win a series at home. When's the BoSux coming to town?

Win a series at home???

Jumping the gun a bit aren't you ????

I'd start with getting a hit a home first!

{ Sorry, I just couldn't resist . . .
you can reciprocate when we're zeroed } ;)

[YankeeMan]

Yankees lead the season series against the Red Sox 4-2.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Yankees lead the season series against the Red Sox 4-2. It's Current Events . . . :rolleyes:

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by KenFougere
It's Current Events . . . :rolleyes:

ROFLMAO!

[Biggerin]

nothing a little sweep by the sox won't fix :)

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
nothing a little sweep by the sox won't fix :) We'll see about that. Just make sure you don't send 6 or more unhittable pitchers against us. Looking at the Yankee "offense" lately, that wouldn't be too difficult. :o

[Biggerin]

buddy, have you SEEN the sox relievers this year? lol

[KenFougere]

I'd hate to be the guy who has the first scheduled meeting with KIng George this morning! ;)

{George S. in the Yankee clubhouse Thursday morning...}
"This is how you hit the ball!" http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/wack.gif

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
buddy, have you SEEN the sox relievers this year? lol Yeah, I knew exactly what I was talking about. I've seen the meltdowns. However, the way our guys have played, it may not be totally unrealistic to stop some of our hitters had they been another team, such as Texas and their "feared" pitchers. :laugh

It seems the Yanks get more riled up when playing Boston than anywhere else, just like the Mets will come off a slump and become sabertoothed tigers when facing us. I guess that archrivalry produces amazing results, but unless teams continue this, that one series could almost be looked at as a fluke done only because of the opponent.

The Houston series' rubber match is here today, so regardless, we can still turn that ugly page from yesterday.

[Sandman]

Nope, the Mets will continue to lose...except for Jae Seo

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Sandman
Nope, the Mets will continue to lose...except for Jae Seo I think that Jae's been one of the biggest hidden surprises of the Mets. I've only read headlines, but he's been a welcome sign, winning a few games where I thought Mets pitching was mostly Glavine and ex-Yank Leiter.

Is Seo from the farm? I didn't hear of a trade. I also meant to ask about SS Jose Reyes, just called up a few days ago. How's he doing?

[YankeeMan]

The Yankees win today moves them to 15-16 at The Stadium this year.

[KenFougere]

*
Yankees always seem to come out on top! (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8639) . . .
:D

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
*
Yankees always seem to come out on top! (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8639) . . .
:D Yes, this despite having the bases drunk in the 8th, no outs and all of 1 run scoring on a sac fly to LF.

Right now we're still tied. Unless Boston comes up with 3-4 runs in the bottom of the 9th on the 8, 9 and 1 hitter, the chowda's not gonna taste too good.

[Mattingly]

Now Little PH Tek for Mirabelli and Tek jacks one into the seats. At least the Cards lead 3-2 but Nomar's up.

[Mattingly]

Great, scores tied off Nomar's RBI triple, Manny and Millar both walk, and bases are loaded, 1 out and we won't see extra innings unless thunder strikes and someone parts the Red Sea!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Now Little PH Tek for Mirabelli and Tek jacks one into the seats. At least the Cards lead 3-2 but Nomar's up. Three runs in ...Bases loaded...one out...Trot up next ...Trots down...two outs...3 outs

Extra Innings . . .

Stay tuned...

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Three runs in ...Bases loaded...one out...Trot up next ...Trots down...two outs...3 outs

Extra Innings . . .

Stay tuned... Either the British are coming, the Red Sea has been parted or we're into extra innings. Suppose this one will last 17 innings?

[KenFougere]

Why don't they pick-up a closer, I MEAN A REAL CLOSER?...http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/angryfire.gif

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Either the British are coming, the Red Sea has been parted or we're into extra innings. Suppose this one will last 17 innings?

Not with our, so-called bullpen...

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Why don't they pick-up a closer, I MEAN A REAL CLOSER?...http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/angryfire.gif
You had one last season, and he's only about $1-2m more than Mendoza is. They could've won this game.

St Louis' Eldred giving up 3 runs on 1 out means LaRussa is overly patient.

[KenFougere]

Best game this year...We tied it up in bottom 10th!

[Mattingly]

Tied score. Had LaRussa taken out Eldred right after that 2 run shot by Tek, the game could've been over now. Nice at least knowing it's not just Torre that has brain farts.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Best game this year...We tied it up in bottom 10th! This seems like a game that if the Cards scored another 3 in the 11th, Boston would tie it up, just for spite.

2 more walks, 2 outs and Nixon is ready to do his popup again, I hope.

[Mattingly]

Fielder's choice, so we hit the 11th inning. Talk about a Cards pitching meltdown. :o

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Tied score. Had LaRussa taken out Eldred right after that 2 run shot by Tek, the game could've been over now. Nice at least knowing it's not just Torre that has brain farts. http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/images/smiles/rotfl.gif

[Mattingly]

Pujols isn't looking like himself today, so no runs. The game's all yours if you can get it back to Nomar. Seeing the Cards pen today, that may not be overly hard, unless Tek comes through big.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Pujols isn't looking like himself today, so no runs. The game's all yours if you can get it back to Nomar. Seeing the Cards pen today, that may not be overly hard, unless Tek comes through big. It's sad when we're not thinking who's gonna win it but, which bullpen is gonna lose it!











500

[YankeeMan]

We goto the 12th... still tied at 5!

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
It's sad when we're not thinking who's gonna win it but, which bullpen is gonna lose it!



500
Someone has to lose it soon. They can't keep matching each other in zeroes and 1 run innings all night.

[Mattingly]

Double steal, 2 RISP now, 1 out. Glad Mendoza's still on George's payroll.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Double steal, 2 RISP now, 1 out. Glad Mendoza's still on George's payroll.
N O M A R -Throws to home- Out !

[YankeeMan]

Since the Cards are headed to The Bronx... Let 'em keep going... 20-something innings Card's win would be nice.

[Mattingly]

13th inning, here we come.

[Mattingly]

Quoted by Ken:

"N O M A R -Throws to home- Out !"

Mendoza's still up, so the Cards have a chance. :)

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Since the Cards are headed to The Bronx... Let 'em keep going... 20-something innings Card's win would be nice.

That would suck...but, St.Louis Has One BIG Advantage in NY...


They're playing in
Yankee Stadium!:laugh

{Every visiting team's 2nd home this year!}

[Mattingly]

Ken, right now, they're playing in Fenway and Jim Edmonds just went kaboom! 8-5 score.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Quoted by Ken:
Mendoza's still up, so the Cards have a chance. :)


What do you have? A CRYSTAL &^%$#(*& BALL!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Ken, right now, they're playing in Fenway and Jim Edmonds just went kaboom! 8-5 score.


As i'm watching it on TV, I log-on so you can tell me it...

*I'm sitting here getting the bad news in stereo!

Two runs in, now it's 8-7. . .but two outs...

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
What do you have? A CRYSTAL &^%$#(*& BALL! Remember, when the Yanks release a reliever who's been a part of the furniture, there's a good reason. Doza couldn't buy a 1-2-3 inning, and when runners are threatening to score, he can't get the out. Must be nervousness.

[Mattingly]

8-7, no outs. LaRussa's gonna get shelled in the press if he can't pull this one off.

[YankeeMan]

AL East Update...

1. NYY 37 28 .569 --
2. Bos 36 28 .563 -.5

[VTSoxFan]

up we go and down we go and up....

I'm getting VERY seasick.

Ok, that's over. Go Cards!

BTW, what's Toronto doing?

[YankeeMan]

AL East Update...

1. NYY 37 28 .569 --
2. Bos 36 28 .563 -.5
3. Tor 37 30 .552 -1.0

[VTSoxFan]

Yikes:eek:

Ok...Go, Whoever is Playing Toronto Next! Go Cards!

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by VTSoxFan
Yikes:eek:

Ok...Go, Whoever is Playing Toronto Next! Go Cards!

GO CUBBIES!

[Biggerin]

red sox and yankee fans band together to fight a common enemy....

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
red sox and yankee fans band together to fight a common enemy.... After the Interleague and the AS break, I want revenge by sweeping them at the Stadium and the Skydome. Then I want Boston to sweep them at Fenway and the Skydome. Or do I want Toronto to sweep Boston at Fenway and the Skydome?

When I make my eventual choice, I'll get back to you, but not right away!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
After the Interleague and the AS break, I want revenge by sweeping them at the Stadium and the Skydome. Then . . .

1. I want Boston to sweep Toronto at Fenway and the Skydome.
OR
2. I want Toronto to sweep Boston at Fenway and the Skydome?

When I make my eventual choice, I'll get back to you, but not right away!

HINT: {Number one is a much better choice} . . . ;)

[BC498]

Well Sr. Clemens won his 300th tonight (7 IP/2 ER/BB/10 K) and struck out Edgar Renteria for #4000 in his career. More importantly, the win keeps the Yanks in first. Perhaps, this will spark some consistency in the Bronx Bombers. Which I know everyone wants to see.

[KenFougere]

With all the excitement over Roger's big night, I want to make sure to congratulate the New York Yankees for reaching their magic number too!!!


==============> .500 @ Home! <=============




...{way-to-go} ;)

[YankeeMan]

...and 2-1 record at Fenway!

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
...and 2-1 record at Fenway!

It's good that you find comfort in...other cities.

...small steps, small steps ...;)

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
HINT: {Number one is a much better choice} . . . ;) Yeah, well Houston's gotta learn to win sometime. This weekend would be a great start! Anyway, I think #2 seems like a decent option. :)

Did anyone see that "Buckner" play superstar Bagwell did yesterday at the Stadium? I think Godzilla did a slow dribbler that went right past him, much slower than Mookie's hit.

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Did anyone see that "Buckner" play superstar Bagwell did yesterday at the Stadium? I think Godzilla did a slow dribbler that went right past him, much slower than Mookie's hit.

That ball was hit slower than Mookies?

...was it going backwards?...;)

[J W]

VT, I think the O's are due after these series are over. Cross yer fingers; the Jays have owned them recently.

Hey, I wormed my way onto the thread! Only took me 600 posts...

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
That ball was hit slower than Mookies?

...was it going backwards?...;) The ball was going so slow

CHORUS: How slow was it going?

That Matsui could've run backwards and outrun the ball!

Anyway, it was a gift, since Bagwell isn't expected to mess up like that.