View Full Version : Mike Piazza-HOF as a Met or Dodger??
What do you think? He came up with LA & had five great years with them. Traded to the Mets & had 7 great years with them. Does he choose the team that drafted him & gave him a chance or does the choose the team where he had the majority of his success.
Brad Harris
08-14-2007, 10:57 PM
I voted Dodger, though I could really care less.
PVNICK
08-15-2007, 06:22 AM
I'm a Met fan, but voted Dodgers. I think he "made" the Hall-of-Fame with his seasons as a Dodger and closed the deal with the Mets.
KCGHOST
08-15-2007, 09:31 AM
I said Dodgers, but have no problem with either.
GiambiJuice
08-15-2007, 09:36 AM
He had by far his best seasons with the Dodgers, plus there's the whole Tommy Lasorda connection. On the other hand, he took the Mets to the World Series and hit that dramatic home run in NY after September 11th.
I think it's a close call, but he'll choose the Mets.
BoofBonser26
08-15-2007, 09:38 AM
He had by far his best seasons with the Dodgers, plus there's the whole Tommy Lasorda connection. On the other hand, he took the Mets to the World Series and hit that dramatic home run in NY after September 11th.
I think it's a close call, but he'll choose the Mets.
Well, it doesn't matter what he chooses, because it's the hall's call now. :crazy
I think the Hall "signs off" on the player's decision. So if Piazza said Mets or Dodgers, the HOF would be ok with either one. If he said the Florida Marlins, then that would be rejected by the HOF.
In that case, I don't know if the HOF would choose a team or tell Mike to try again.
Tough call. (Not like Glavin !)
Couldn't argue either way. My quess is he'll choose NY. He sure was well treated here, wasn't he ?
BUT....
If Tommy Lasorda is still alive when Mike's voted in, he may lean on him to go in as a Dodger. Piazza definitly owes him his career. Makes for an interesting decision.
HOWEVER....
If he goes in as a Dodger - He can say goodby to any post career ($$) in New York. There are so many transient fans in LA, it would never have the same type of negative impact if he went in as a Met. His post playing career ($$) won't be affected.
AND...
I'm quessing Wilpon will offer to retire his number, something the Dodgers will definitly NOT do. He'll make more money w/ a retired number.
SO...
I say - follow the money - he'll go in as a Met !
That's why it's such an interesting question.
BlueBlood
08-15-2007, 11:25 AM
He left LA for more money. Statistically, he should go in as a Dodger, but I'm sure he'd prefer being inducted as a Met. Plus, it's not like the Dodgers would want to retire his number or anything.
The only reason people think of him as a Met is because that was the uniform he wore when he finally made it to the World Series.
(just a guess on my part)
bambambaseball
07-06-2009, 10:49 PM
He should go in as a Dodger but he'll go in as a Met!:twocents:
gman5431
07-07-2009, 07:22 AM
Before i read the first post i would have thought he had more years in LA. Anyways, i still see him as a Dodger.
G Man
RyanExpress30
07-07-2009, 08:14 AM
Both teams have decent arguments, so it wouldn't shock the conscience to see him go in with either cap . . . that being said, I'd like to see him go in as a Met . . .
stejay
07-07-2009, 08:34 AM
I think Mets. I think he is more revered there, but that is just my opinion.
ReyesOfHope
07-07-2009, 01:15 PM
I think the Hall "signs off" on the player's decision. So if Piazza said Mets or Dodgers, the HOF would be ok with either one. If he said the Florida Marlins, then that would be rejected by the HOF.
In that case, I don't know if the HOF would choose a team or tell Mike to try again.
From the HoF website.
Who decides what team logo will be used on Hall of Fame plaques?
The choice of which team’s logo appears on a player’s plaque is the Museum's decision, though we always consider the wishes of an inductee. As a history Museum, it's important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player's career. A player's election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark.
In mike's case...I kinda think the museum will ask him which he prefers since both are valid choices. You can make very good arguments for the Mets or the Dodgers.
jjpm74
07-07-2009, 03:26 PM
His best years came as a Dodger, but I'd personally like to see him go in as a Met.
Brad Harris
07-07-2009, 03:33 PM
I think a meaningful guage of public sentiment on these sorts of questions should exclude votes from any fans of the teams involved (Dodgers and Mets fans in this case.)
EricAnno
07-10-2009, 07:20 PM
Dodgers, no question.
They were the only organization that took a chance on him, he had his best seasons (by far) there, and it would probably make good ol' Tommy happy!
Use a dollar sign for the logo on his cap.
redban
07-10-2009, 08:44 PM
Definately as a Met.
You can argue both ways.
He had (Statistically) better years as a Dodger, but then he had more popularity, memorable moments, and post-season success as a Met.
The clincher, I believe, is Piazza's desire to go as a Met. I know the decision is on the Hall of Fame, but they should at least give consideration to the player's wish. Piazza's retirement speech made it pretty clear that he wants to go in as a Met.
Brad Harris
07-10-2009, 08:44 PM
Dodgers, no question.
They were the only organization that took a chance on him, he had his best seasons (by far) there, and it would probably make good ol' Tommy happy!
Well as long as Tommy's happy... :laugh
EricAnno
07-11-2009, 05:53 PM
Well as long as Tommy's happy... :laugh
Try telling Doug Rau how to make Tommy happy. :faint:
Cougar
07-11-2009, 07:25 PM
The HOF could compromise and put him in as a Brooklyn Dodger.:D
ol' aches and pains
07-11-2009, 07:47 PM
First of all, he has to get elected. If he's on that list of 104 players from '03, all bets could be off. I'm not accusing him, I'm just sayin'.
StrawberryField
07-17-2009, 12:16 AM
hmmm....5 years as a dodger.....8 years as a Met.....World Series as a Mets.....swept twice in division series with dodgers.....more HR's and games played as a Met.....Is Mike Piazza gonna be apart of the closing of Dodger Stadium if when that ever happens? NO.
He's a Met and it's unbelievable to me that anyone thinks he's more Dodger.
He said the best time he had in his career was as a Met and obviously thinks of himself as a Met.
Case closed
Shea Knight
07-17-2009, 01:21 PM
People ask this question quite a bit, and I really don't see why:
It's clear he should be a Met.
Statistically, he had his biggest years with the Blue Crew, and there's the Lasorda connection, but:
-More time in NY
-Meant more to the Mets (made them matter again, led them to a World Series, you can't say they make it in 2000 without him) than the Dodgers (good seasons, but he was just a cog, albeit a big cog, and any, they traded him- what does that say about how they viewed him?)
-Nearly every big Piazza moment that is memorable and definitive, the stuff that fans remember, that enters baseball lore, and the Hall loves (His welcome and immediate impact in '98, his '99 and '00 leadership, his blasting Clemens' pitches to smitereens, betting beaned by him, and finally the bat-incident game and the HR he hit in that game, his post-9/11 HR that lifted NY and the nation to its feet, his passing Carlton Fisk as the all-time HR-hitting catcher and best-hitting catcher ever, and on and on) happened with the Mets, the Dodger years were stat years- nice but not as memorable or magical. What do you remember first when you think of Kirk Gibson (not a HOFer, at least not yet, that's another conversation, but a good player)- whatever year he hit the most HRs of his career, or the "I don't believe what I just saw!" shot in the World Series. With Gibbie, he had just a couple years with the Dodgers and the one moment and many great years with the Tigers; Piazza had more years with the Mets than Dodgers and many more "moments."
-Piazza, in his farewell, thanked all the fans in all the cities he played in, but said that he especially wanted to thank the NY fans, and said he loved and treasured his time with the team.
-The Dodgers have plenty of HOFers already that are uniquely Dodgers- and a HOF catcher already, even- and all the Metropolitans have is Seaver. Let them have one...
-Speaking of Seaver, who was selected as the catcher to catch the final pitch at Shea Stadium, over HOFer Gary Carter, which reminds me...
-The Mets have already had a catcher "stolen" from them in the Hall- Carter asked for a Mets plaque because he had his most memorable years and his only Championship with the Mets. Granted he had many more years with the Expos and a couple with the Dodgers, but Frank Robinson selected the Orioles over the Reds, whom he spent more time with, based on the experiences he had with the O's and the championships he won. Carter was between Expos and Mets, and the Mets lost out. Let them have it this time.
-Franchise identification: when you say Yankees, who do you think of? Babe, Lou, Joe D., the Mick, Yogi, Jeter, many more. Dodgers? Jackie, Pee Wee, Campy, Sandy, Garvey, many more. Less successful teams now- Padres? Gwynn. Blue Jays? Joe Carter (not a HOFer, but a good player) and probably Doc Halladay (at least for know; and some day he may be a HOFer, off to a great start, just a few more seasons are needed...) Now say "Mets.' Who comes to mind? Seaver- and Piazza. You can say plenty of other good-borderline HOF plaayers like Keith Hernandez, Doc Gooden, Jerry Koosman and more recently Reyes and Wright, but it's Seaver and Piazza that immediate come to mind- the best hitter and best pitcher in team history. How TERRIBLE would it be if the best hitter and one of the true icons of the Mets was forever enshrined with another hat- and not just another hat, but with the hat of the semi-rival-and-never-welcome Dodgers.
Piazza is 10x more a Met than a Dodger.
Granted I'm biased on the account maybe a bit (check my name, and Piazza's my favorite player, the reason I started watching the Mets and baseball) but I think my points are valid.
If you want to challenge them, go ahead- I'm up for a friendly debate.
The 7 things I'm pretty set in my ways over:
-The 49ers (my team in the NFL) must stay in SF.
-Popular music today is mostly crap (I'm a theatre/opera guy, and I have some friends who love '60s stuff, so that too I like, it's pretty impossible to dislike the Beatles or Stones...)
-Comedians today need to be more like the Marx Brothers and Johnny Carson and less like Ben Stiller and Jimmy Fallon (Funny actor, but he has no business hosting a Late Night show.)
-Star Trek is awesome, and I love all the shows, but nothing outisde of Kirk or Picard (or "new" Kirk)'s ships really matters that much
-Theatre/Opera/English/Philosophy are the most expressive forms of... well, expresssion, and the soul of WEstern civilization (a few other componets to it too, though, lol)
AND.........
-Mike Piazza is the greatest hitting catcher ever and must go into the Baseball Hall of Fame first ballot, and as a MET.
Thank you for permitting my rambling. ;)
Shea Knight
07-17-2009, 01:23 PM
Oh, no just ssaw- those are 6 things, not 7 lol
I'll give you the 7th later lol
theAmazingMet
09-15-2009, 06:08 AM
SheaKnight said it best (the part pertaining to Piazza I mean :laugh
)
Piazza will probably go in as a Met because there are no position players in the Hall wearing a Mets cap. That one reason trumps all others.
The Hall put in Carter as an Expo,because they wanted the Expos to have a permanant mark on the history of the game. The Hall understands Mike's significance to the Mets and how we lost out on getting a HOF position player. I would bet $ on the fact that he gets in as a Met.
538280
09-15-2009, 06:36 AM
The Hall put in Carter because they wanted the Expos to have a permanant mark on the history of the game. .
Carter is one of the best catchers of all time, he was a lock HOFer regardless of what team he played for. Carter clearly should have gone in as an Expo, though. He only really had one great season with the Mets and was in decline for the rest of his time there. He played 1502 games with the Expos, 600 with the Mets, and his quality per game was far higher with the Expos as well. Piazza really could go in as either a Met or a Dodger, in this case I think the decision should be made by Piazza himself.
theAmazingMet
09-15-2009, 06:49 AM
Carter is one of the best catchers of all time, he was a lock HOFer regardless of what team he played for. Carter clearly should have gone in as an Expo, though. He only really had one great season with the Mets and was in decline for the rest of his time there. He played 1502 games with the Expos, 600 with the Mets, and his quality per game was far higher with the Expos as well. Piazza really could go in as either a Met or a Dodger, in this case I think the decision should be made by Piazza himself.
I should have been more concise in my writing. I meant to say that Carter was a lock to go in the Hall as an Expo. Obviously he is a HOF player. I would say one of the top 5 hitting catchers ever. Apologies.
twinkies
09-18-2009, 06:39 PM
he told me the mets
Paul Wendt
09-18-2009, 07:19 PM
is this all the Mets have going?
EricAnno
09-18-2009, 07:46 PM
hmmm....5 years as a dodger.....8 years as a Met.....
Reggie Jackson:
5 years as a Yankee
5 years as an Angel
He was as much of an Angel as he was a Yankee, right?
(And, just for the record, Piazza actually played in Los Angeles for seven years, not five.)
World Series as a Mets.....swept twice in division series with dodgers.....
Was, for the most part, a terrible playoff hitter with the Mets.
And the Mets lost that World Series.
more HR's and games played as a Met.....
Better batting average, on-base percentage, slugging percentage, OPS, OPS+ with the Dodgers.
Is Mike Piazza gonna be apart of the closing of Dodger Stadium if when that ever happens? NO.
And, you know that...how?
He more than likely will be part of the closing, should that happen.
He's a Met and it's unbelievable to me that anyone thinks he's more Dodger.
I could say the same thing for anyone who thinks he's a Met. His best numbers, by far his best numbers came with the Dodgers and that's really all that matters anymore.
He said the best time he had in his career was as a Met and obviously thinks of himself as a Met.
Do players even get to decide for themselves anymore?
Case closed
Not really.
Fuzzy Bear
09-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Piazza played more years as a Met. He played so many more years as a Met that it's hard to justify putting him in as a Dodger.
CandlestickBum
09-19-2009, 06:20 PM
Gotta vote Mets since I'm incapable of voting FOR the Bums.
Fuzzy Bear
09-19-2009, 07:18 PM
In memory of Wayne Huizenga, Piazza should go in as a Florida Marlin! :)
brett
09-19-2009, 07:27 PM
WARP III as a Dodger: 44.0
WARP III as a Met: 33.4
That being said, I don't really care. I always felt they should let guys go in with 2 caps-Fisk for example.
nerfan
09-19-2009, 08:09 PM
To be honest it's completely about public perception. Just look at Piazza's best buddy Roger Clemens. Clemens in Boston > Clemens in New York. Clemens is going into the Hall with a Yanks hat.
Los Bravos
09-19-2009, 09:07 PM
Clemens is going into the Hall with a Yanks hat.Right after he pays for a ticket.
Mike will be lucky to escape the same fate.
EricAnno
09-19-2009, 09:13 PM
Piazza played more years as a Met. He played so many more years as a Met that it's hard to justify putting him in as a Dodger.
Years with Mets: 8
Years with Dodgers: 7
You're right.
He sure played a whole lot more years in New York!
nerfan
09-19-2009, 09:29 PM
Right after he pays for a ticket.
Mike will be lucky to escape the same fate.
The public's grown on steroids. I personally don't care. Eventually the writers won't either. Without steroids Roger still would have been one of the greatest pitchers of all time, so deal with it. He's getting into the Hall, whether you like it or not.
nerfan
09-19-2009, 09:30 PM
Years with Mets: 8
Years with Dodgers: 7
You're right.
He sure played a whole lot more years in New York!
About 3000 PA's as Dodger.
About 4000 PA's as a Met.
The gap isn't as big as most people think.
BSmile
09-19-2009, 10:32 PM
It's an extemely close call...and I still can't believe the Dodgers traded him.
He might go in with a blank cap, although it looks like his best hitting years were with the Dodgers.
Los Bravos
09-20-2009, 02:31 AM
The public's grown on steroids. I personally don't care. Eventually the writers won't either. Without steroids Roger still would have been one of the greatest pitchers of all time, so deal with it. He's getting into the Hall, whether you like it or not.Overreact much?
I've made my personal position on him clear but my opinion on his Hall chances is based on my objective observation and nothing else. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
Fuzzy Bear
09-20-2009, 05:54 AM
Years with Mets: 8
Years with Dodgers: 7
You're right.
He sure played a whole lot more years in New York!
One of the seven "seasons" in LA was a 21 game cup of coffee in 1992. Another one of those "seasons" was 37 games as a Dodger in 1997.
Piazza played five full seasons with the Dodgers (1993-97). In 1998, he played 37 games with the Dodgers, 5 games with the Marlins, and 109 games with the Mets. He played 246 more games with the Mets than he did with the Dodgers; that's about 1.75 seasons more in terms of full-time catching play. If you want to add all of this up, Piazza played about 5 1/3 years as a Dodger and about 7 2/3 years as a Met.
Piazza is also the greatest catcher in the history of the Mets. He's the greatest LOS ANGELES catcher in Dodger history, but he's probably behind
Roy Campanella as the greatest catcher in Dodger history.
These are my arguments for Piazza going in as a Met. On the other hand, in verifying how much longer Piazza played with the Mets vs. Dodgers, I also reassesed what Piazza did while a Dodger vs. as a Met, and Piazza's 5 full years as a Dodger is, I believe, the greatest 5 year offensive run by a catcher at any time in baseball history. On top of that, Piazza had more defensive value early in his career. What Piazza did from 1993-97, in and of itself, might have been enough to put a catcher in the HOF, even if he had got hurt in 1998 and limped to 10 years of service. Piazza's PEAK as a Dodger was so much higher than his peak as a Met that putting him in as a Dodger may be the right thing to do after all.
nerfan
09-20-2009, 06:40 AM
Overreact much?
I've made my personal position on him clear but my opinion on his Hall chances is based on my objective observation and nothing else. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
I was sort of going on a tirade against the writers, not you. If they don't put the greatest pitcher in the history of MLB in the Hall... smoke will come out of my ears, nose, mouth, etc.
brett
09-20-2009, 08:09 AM
The public's grown on steroids. I personally don't care. Eventually the writers won't either. Without steroids Roger still would have been one of the greatest pitchers of all time, so deal with it. He's getting into the Hall, whether you like it or not.
Rumor is that Hank Aaron or Frank Robinson has enough HOFers pledged to blackball him (and Bonds, MacGwire and Sosa) that they wont get a chance in the next 25 years.
Paul Wendt
09-20-2009, 09:22 AM
Rumor is that Hank Aaron or Frank Robinson has enough HOFers pledged to blackball him (and Bonds, MacGwire and Sosa) that they wont get a chance in the next 25 years.
It's Aaron, Robinson, and Co. who won't get a chance in the next 25 years. (almost)
Beginning in three years the writers will have 15 years to elect Mike Piazza and others who played during the 2007 season, such as Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds. That will be for induction sometime 2013 to 2027! Not until fall 2026 will those players be in the position of Jim Rice last fall, if the writers do naysay them fourteen times. Here I suppose that the Hall of Fame will preserve the jurisdiction of the BBWAA over recent players, as it has during many previous revisions of several veterans committees.
Bobby Doerr and Bob Feller were the oldest living Hall of Fame players, both 90 years old, when that group voted on Santo, Kaat, and Oliva last fall. Aaron and Robinson are 75 and 74 years old now. They will both be in their nineties, if they are so fortunate, when Piazza & Co. expire on the writers ballot, if they are so unfortunate.
Los Bravos
09-20-2009, 06:38 PM
I was considering adding something on that score last night but I decided to keep my original response brief and on point.
Whatever the writers do, if one of those guys, (I think Bonds or Clemens in particular), is elected you will have scant participation fom the existing members in the ceremony and possibly a full on boycott.
Up until recently, McGwire is the only one of these guys who has been on a ballot. They've had the extra fact that he was sort of a one dimensional player to fall back on to explain his lack of support, but when the likes of Palmeiro, Bonds and Clemens show up, with stellar resumés (at least on paper), then we'll find out where they really stand.