View Full Version : head down on ball
MannyRamirez2006
08-14-2007, 06:20 AM
I know it's the oldest "cue" in the book but it's amazing how important it is. Maybe a lot of players are having no problem doing it but I know I wasn't doing it when I thought I was. I was hitting yesterday and I noticed that I was definetley pulling off the ball so I decided to watch the ball all the way to the bat and not worry or think about ANYTHING else. I just swung so easy because I watched the ball all the way to the bat as long as I possibly can and I pulled one to left field farther then I have ever hit a ball with a wooden bat. What could be causing this?? Could it be the fact that it controls my swing and keeps me from overswinging which slows down my swing or could it be the fact that by keeping my head "down" or "in there" my hips don't prematurely open and they "stay on the ball" and explode with my lead shoulder at the right time??
Your head holds your eyes, and together they lead the rest of you wherever you go all your life. Like steering a dumb horse but that's how it works.
IMO when your head pulls off it's likely to be happening because of tension in the neck from swinging too hard.
You got it half right when you said;"could it be the fact that it controls my swing and keeps me from overswinging which slows down my swing or
You stopped overswinging, it stopped pulling your head, your head & eyes stayed with the ball and other good things happened.
BoardMember
08-14-2007, 08:43 AM
This is a pretty good thread on Tracking and Head position:
Keeping your eye on the ball (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=60432)
I know it's the oldest "cue" in the book but it's amazing how important it is. Maybe a lot of players are having no problem doing it but I know I wasn't doing it when I thought I was. I was hitting yesterday and I noticed that I was definetley pulling off the ball so I decided to watch the ball all the way to the bat and not worry or think about ANYTHING else. I just swung so easy because I watched the ball all the way to the bat as long as I possibly can and I pulled one to left field farther then I have ever hit a ball with a wooden bat. What could be causing this?? Could it be the fact that it controls my swing and keeps me from overswinging which slows down my swing or could it be the fact that by keeping my head "down" or "in there" my hips don't prematurely open and they "stay on the ball" and explode with my lead shoulder at the right time??
jbooth
08-14-2007, 09:17 AM
I know it's the oldest "cue" in the book but it's amazing how important it is. Maybe a lot of players are having no problem doing it but I know I wasn't doing it when I thought I was. I was hitting yesterday and I noticed that I was definetley pulling off the ball so I decided to watch the ball all the way to the bat and not worry or think about ANYTHING else. I just swung so easy because I watched the ball all the way to the bat as long as I possibly can and I pulled one to left field farther then I have ever hit a ball with a wooden bat. What could be causing this?? Could it be the fact that it controls my swing and keeps me from overswinging which slows down my swing or could it be the fact that by keeping my head "down" or "in there" my hips don't prematurely open and they "stay on the ball" and explode with my lead shoulder at the right time??
Your head can't change its position in space, by itself. The head pulls out, moves up or down, back and forth, due to change in position of other body parts. If your head is pulling out, it is due to your straigtening up your back. If your head is popping up it is due to straightening the back leg and/or straightening the back.
You told yourself to track the ball longer and your brain solved your pull out problem by telling your back to stay in place so your head would stay still and your eyes could follow the ball. The concious thought "keep your head down" causes you to keep your posture. You could just as well tell yourself "stay tilted", or "stay down."
MannyRamirez2006
08-14-2007, 04:46 PM
interesting points thanx guys!
but do you think that keeping your head in there or on the ball whatever you want to call it could help in power because of the fact that your hips don't open as prematurely as do your shoulders.
Centerfielder2
08-14-2007, 05:01 PM
Its also good that you have a Swing thought. When i don't have one my hitting is all messed up. So i have to think hands to the ball or something like that to make my hitting better
Padday
08-14-2007, 05:07 PM
I'll tesfy to the success that keeping your focus on the ball all the way in helps. Recently, I have been just stinking up the place while at the plate. I tried everything in the book but I had no luck. Then at my last training session while taking some bp my coach just said to me to not pull my head away and watch the ball in. I didn't even realise I had been doing it so I took another swing at the next pitch without making an adjustment and all of a sudden it was clear as day. Next three pitches I smoked. The best swings undoubtedly in weeks.
I believe that the head flailing out leads to a domino effect which inevitably leads to premature disconnection and as you said in the original post overswinging the bat and slowing it down.
Stealth
08-14-2007, 05:08 PM
So I have to think hands to the ball or something like that to make my hitting better
Now you did it - this thread should go down the drain quickly!:laugh
jbooth
08-14-2007, 08:01 PM
I'll tesfy to the success that keeping your focus on the ball all the way in helps. Recently, I have been just stinking up the place while at the plate. I tried everything in the book but I had no luck. Then at my last training session while taking some bp my coach just said to me to not pull my head away and watch the ball in. I didn't even realise I had been doing it so I took another swing at the next pitch without making an adjustment and all of a sudden it was clear as day. Next three pitches I smoked. The best swings undoubtedly in weeks.
I believe that the head flailing out leads to a domino effect which inevitably leads to premature disconnection and as you said in the original post overswinging the bat and slowing it down.
Absolutely! You must keep a steady head. It one of the most important parts of the swing. But, remember; the head moves up, down, or out from your body being out of control, from bad leg movement and/or spine angle change.
Somebody did a study in 2003 of all MLB hitters, on their head positions an from the time the front foot gets weighted up until bat/ball contact, their heads do not move forward or backward more than 2 inches. The head may move in a bit for low or low and away pitches, but it rarely moves out, and never more than 2 inches forward or back.
You have to be balanced and head movement often means lack of balance.
MannyRamirez2006
08-19-2007, 10:08 AM
I'll tesfy to the success that keeping your focus on the ball all the way in helps. Recently, I have been just stinking up the place while at the plate. I tried everything in the book but I had no luck. Then at my last training session while taking some bp my coach just said to me to not pull my head away and watch the ball in. I didn't even realise I had been doing it so I took another swing at the next pitch without making an adjustment and all of a sudden it was clear as day. Next three pitches I smoked. The best swings undoubtedly in weeks.
I believe that the head flailing out leads to a domino effect which inevitably leads to premature disconnection and as you said in the original post overswinging the bat and slowing it down.
This is what I am thinking because the farthest balls I have hit all have been watching the ball almost to bat contact (or as long as humanly possible). I know you can't physically watch the ball hit the bat because it just happens too fast but you get my drift. I can't believe how much more power I have by doing this. I'm thinking it solves two of my problems. The first problem being premature disconnection of shoulders and hips because of the fact that I (like most players) are "hands happy" and don't let the hands "go for the ride" that the bigger muscles (hips/legs/shoulders) produce and I think that it stops me from trying to kill the ball. I am obsessed with the HR and I always try to kill the ball and it's a horrible habit that I can't break. The harder you swing doesn't mean the harder you will hit the ball. Some players (Gary Sheffield) can do it because they swing fast through the ball but when I try to kill the ball I tense up right at contact which slows down my bat speed.
bbfreak8
08-20-2007, 12:30 AM
This is what I am thinking because the farthest balls I have hit all have been watching the ball almost to bat contact (or as long as humanly possible). I know you can't physically watch the ball hit the bat because it just happens too fast but you get my drift. I can't believe how much more power I have by doing this. I'm thinking it solves two of my problems. The first problem being premature disconnection of shoulders and hips because of the fact that I (like most players) are "hands happy" and don't let the hands "go for the ride" that the bigger muscles (hips/legs/shoulders) produce and I think that it stops me from trying to kill the ball. I am obsessed with the HR and I always try to kill the ball and it's a horrible habit that I can't break. The harder you swing doesn't mean the harder you will hit the ball. Some players (Gary Sheffield) can do it because they swing fast through the ball but when I try to kill the ball I tense up right at contact which slows down my bat speed.
I definitely agree...I actually just started working on the same thing the other day. I noticed that in bp I wasn't tracking the ball all the way to the bat because I was lifting my eyes (which more than likely caused me to move my head) just before the point of contact so I could watch the flight of the ball. This is probably the cause of what you are doing also.
This may not be as crucial in bp but think about some of the late movement that some pitchers have on fastballs or any other pitch. If you're lifting your eyes to watch the flight of the ball, do you think you're going to be able to adjust for that late movement? Much less even see that movement? Don't think so.
Derek Jeter is probably the best example of tracking the ball ALL THE WAY to the bat (and I hate the Yankees! lol). Just look at a still photo of him at contact. Beautiful!
The way that I've been working on it is to hit off the tee and/or hit front toss and consciously keep your eyes at contact point. Off the tee I even go as far to make sure that my eyes are still looking at the head of the tee AFTER I have already FINISHED the swing.
Good luck
MannyRamirez2006
08-26-2007, 01:28 PM
so what is this about body tilt?? What does body tilt actually do?? Does it help with the swing plane?? Does it help bat speed?? Can somebody explain body tilt more??
MannyRamirez2006
08-30-2007, 06:49 PM
Your head can't change its position in space, by itself. The head pulls out, moves up or down, back and forth, due to change in position of other body parts. If your head is pulling out, it is due to your straigtening up your back. If your head is popping up it is due to straightening the back leg and/or straightening the back.
You told yourself to track the ball longer and your brain solved your pull out problem by telling your back to stay in place so your head would stay still and your eyes could follow the ball. The concious thought "keep your head down" causes you to keep your posture. You could just as well tell yourself "stay tilted", or "stay down."
so keeping my head "in there" longer caused my body to tilt which helped with batspeed somehow someway?? I am just amazed how much better I hit the ball when I really concentrate on keeping my head in there the whole way. I must be tilting and not even knowing and my swing plane is better?? I noticed that my swing plane is horrible. VERY wavy.
Go Cardinals
08-30-2007, 07:30 PM
Absolutely! You must keep a steady head. It one of the most important parts of the swing. But, remember; the head moves up, down, or out from your body being out of control, from bad leg movement and/or spine angle change.
Somebody did a study in 2003 of all MLB hitters, on their head positions an from the time the front foot gets weighted up until bat/ball contact, their heads do not move forward or backward more than 2 inches. The head may move in a bit for low or low and away pitches, but it rarely moves out, and never more than 2 inches forward or back.
You have to be balanced and head movement often means lack of balance.
Put your mouse down on Albert's head before he starts his swing (in load), then leave it there. Watch how much it moves!
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=5&n=1&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
jbooth
08-30-2007, 08:06 PM
http://firstpickclub.com/video/pujolsalbert1head.gifPut your mouse down on Albert's head before he starts his swing (in load), then leave it there. Watch how much it moves!
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=5&n=1&m=12&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
OK, I did, and it doesn't move hardly at all after his front foot gets weighted. Which is what I said before, perhaps you missed it.
Somebody did a study in 2003 of all MLB hitters, on their head positions, and from the time the front foot gets weighted up until bat/ball contact, their heads do not move forward or backward more than 2 inches.
The head moves during the stride, or until shoulder rotation starts and then it doesn't move much. You're seeing movement from his shift. I wasn't talking about that.
Go Cardinals
08-30-2007, 08:31 PM
http://firstpickclub.com/video/pujolsalbert1head.gif
OK, I did, and it doesn't move hardly at all after his front foot gets weighted. Which is what I said before, perhaps you missed it.
The head moves during the stride, or until shoulder rotation starts and then it doesn't move much. You're seeing movement from his shift. I wasn't talking about that.
Oh, I am sorry, my mistake. You are correct, my bad!
MannyRamirez2006
08-30-2007, 08:46 PM
i'm curious the cause of the effect that Pujols and many other MLB hitters get on their back tippy toe or even off the ground.
Go Cardinals
08-30-2007, 09:04 PM
i'm curious the cause of the effect that Pujols and many other MLB hitters get on their back tippy toe or even off the ground.
umm... you are supposed to, it comes from a good weight transfer/shift.
MannyRamirez2006
08-30-2007, 09:19 PM
umm... you are supposed to, it comes from a good weight transfer/shift.
I am not questioning if it's right or not. Obviously it is because they do it. I am questioning what the cause and effect is.
Go Cardinals
08-30-2007, 09:23 PM
I am not questioning if it's right or not. Obviously it is because they do it. I am questioning what the cause and effect is.
Exactly what I said, a good weight shift/ weigh transfer. That is the cause!
MannyRamirez2006
08-30-2007, 09:31 PM
Exactly what I said, a good weight shift/ weigh transfer. That is the cause!
I know I was referring to the part where you said "ummm, u are supposed to."
Go Cardinals
08-30-2007, 09:39 PM
I know I was referring to the part where you said "ummm, u are supposed to."
Ok it is hard to tell the tone of our voices since we are typing, but I in a sarcastic way I was trying to tell you that the reason they do it is because of a good weight shift/transfer. I ment that I answered your question when you thought I was like critisicing you...... doesn't matter anyway but now you know what I ws thinking!
MannyRamirez2006
08-30-2007, 09:42 PM
Ok it is hard to tell the tone of our voices since we are typing, but I in a sarcastic way I was trying to tell you that the reason they do it is because of a good weight shift/transfer. I ment that I answered your question when you thought I was like critisicing you...... doesn't matter anyway but now you know what I ws thinking!
so they actually shift weight onto the front foot and then rotate?? wow I always thought the weight distribution was 50/50.
jbooth
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
so they actually shift weight onto the front foot and then rotate?? wow I always thought the weight distribution was 50/50.
ALL of the pressure of weight shift and rotation is on the front foot at contact. The upper body mass (torso) stays centered, but the front foot is absorbing ALL of the weight/pressure/force of momentum, at contact.
You drive into your front foot and then firm up and straighten the front leg, to hold the torso centered, and then finish the rotation.
Go Cardinals
08-30-2007, 10:25 PM
ALL of the pressure of weight shift and rotation is on the front foot at contact. The upper body mass (torso) stays centered, but the front foot is absorbing ALL of the weight/pressure/force of momentum, at contact.
You drive into your front foot and then firm up and straighten the front leg, to hold the torso centered, and then finish the rotation.
Well put jbooth. You explained that very nicely.
so they actually shift weight onto the front foot and then rotate?? wow I always thought the weight distribution was 50/50.
That 50/50 weight distribution refers to most stances. Once in motion it changes as jbooth describes.
MannyRamirez2006
08-31-2007, 10:32 PM
so does tilt naturally happen when you keep your head down on the ball. Once again I went in the cages today and started hitting ok. Then it dawned on me that I forgot to watch the ball for as long as possible. Once I started doing this I started really crushing the ball again. It's the weirdest thing and I am curious why I hit the ball better. It's not just about making good contact because I am making good contact when I don't think about this. I really think it has something to do with the swing plane or body tilt but I'm not sure. I can't just settle with oh it works don't worry about why it works. I like to know the reason for everything.
so does tilt naturally happen when you keep your head down on the ball. Once again I went in the cages today and started hitting ok. Then it dawned on me that I forgot to watch the ball for as long as possible. Once I started doing this I started really crushing the ball again. It's the weirdest thing and I am curious why I hit the ball better. It's not just about making good contact because I am making good contact when I don't think about this. I really think it has something to do with the swing plane or body tilt but I'm not sure. I can't just settle with oh it works don't worry about why it works. I like to know the reason for everything.
Never mind the mumbojumbo, IT EXPLAINS NOTHING. It's about total physical coordination eyes and all down to the ground.Now you have a grip on this, study and memorize the feel of it and groom the habit. Forget words coined by others to suit their own needs. Your need is to crush the ball so just crush the ball!! **FORGET THE WORDS !!