Disconnect in simple terms

[merdon133]

Hey guys,

I need some help on understanding this term and what to look for. Not sure how to really tell if this happening or not. So is it the hips opening to soon or the shoulders or neither?

Please try to keep it simple as I'm learning here and some like to get to high tech in the lingo
Thanks,

[Jake Patterson]

Hey guys,

I need some help on understanding this term and what to look for. Not sure how to really tell if this happening or not. So is it the hips opening to soon or the shoulders or neither?

Please try to keep it simple as I'm learning here and some like to get to high tech in the lingo
Thanks,

I define disconnection as the momment the box breaks down and the hands start to extend. Part of this is necessary for a good swing. The body cannot "Stay" connected through the entire swing.

[Chris O'Leary]

I need some help on understanding this term and what to look for. Not sure how to really tell if this happening or not. So is it the hips opening to soon or the shoulders or neither?

Please try to keep it simple as I'm learning here and some like to get to high tech in the lingo

Connection means the hands turning with the shoulders, not before and not after.

Disconnection means the hands turning either well before or well after the shoulders and back elbow.

Hands turning well before, and away from the shoulders and back elbow, results in a weak, arm-y swing. This is often caused by cues like throwing the hands at the ball and making the Power V at the point of contact. A figure skater spins faster the closer their hands are to their body and spins slower the farther their hands are away from their body. The same thing is true for hitters.

Hands turning well after the shoulders and back elbow means bat drag which means a slow (but sometimes still powerful) swing. The problem with a swing with bat drag is that it won't scale; it might work at lower levels but is too long and slow to deal with fast pitching.

[tadlock11]

As it was described to me, think of it in terms of the domino effect except instead of dominos falling, it's the kinetic chain. Starting with the middle/hip area and "domino'ing" out to the bat head. That is how I look at "connection" within a swing.
Disconnection would be when there is a breakdown somewhere in the chain and something within the system gets out of sequence.

[merdon133]

No more teaching lead with the hands and everything will follow?

So when watching video it should be feet - hips - shoulders - hands - bat head? I that about right

[jbooth]

No more teaching lead with the hands and everything will follow?

If you want to hit with very little power, lead with the hands.


So when watching video it should be feet - hips - shoulders - hands - bat head? Is that about right

Yep.

One form of Disconnection that sucks out a lot of power, is to use the arms to pull the bat, and pull it away from the shoulders, so that the arms are powering it, rather than the body and shoulder rotation.

If you want to hit with power, lead with the hips and keep the hands back at the shoulder.

Just like this;



and this;

[merdon133]

Thanks Jim, Chris, Jake!

I went to your site and have you changed it? I thought I remember you having some tips and drills.

I thought you also had a device that looked like a box with a 36" peice of PVC on one end that you rotated with ( kinda like the stick Jake talks about, but with a box)

Anyway thanks for the input, now how to fix it? I'm making the grip stick tonight( haven't glued my fingers yet) any other free drills to work with?

[Chris O'Leary]

One form of Disconnection that sucks out a lot of power, is to use the arms to pull the bat, and pull it away from the shoulders, so that the arms are powering it, rather than the body and shoulder rotation.

In general, the idea is to swing with the entire body, not just the arms.

What happens is that the hips rotate first (this is referred to as middle-out), which pulls the shoulders and thus the hands around.



If you want to hit with power, lead with the hips and keep the hands back at the shoulder.

I agree.

[merdon133]

I sent you an email. I was on your site as well tonight( I love it) the kids love the work you did with the frame by frame. I think all kids want to be like the hero's and that helps.

Thanks for keeping it free to view!

[jbooth]

Thanks Jim, Chris, Jake!

I went to your site and have you changed it? I thought I remember you having some tips and drills.

If you mean http://firstpickclub.com

I don't have drills on it, but I have .gifs and .mpgs of swings and some written comments.


I thought you also had a device that looked like a box with a 36" peice of PVC on one end that you rotated with ( kinda like the stick Jake talks about, but with a box)

Do you mean this? http://firstpickclub.com/images/pvcbox.mpg (http://firstpickclub.com/video/pvcbox.mpg)

It's just a demo to show that you don't need arm and hand force to get the bat to the ball. That doesn't mean that you don't use them, it's just that they aren't THE driving force.

[merdon133]

Thanks Jim

[merdon133]

He said that he's disconnecting and his posture is bad. What else you see and what needs the most attention

[merdon133]

[JackB1]

I didn't see much wrong with the 1st swing, but the 2nd one, he is leaning a bit backwards as he is swings and he dropped his hands a bit before swinging almost like he was trying to uppercut a fly ball to the outfield. But for his age, his swing is outstanding and very solid.

[wogdoggy]

HG in ALL the time playing ball,,HAVE you ever heard a hitting coach or fellow pro ever talk or mention the word disconnect?

[Chris O'Leary]

HG in ALL the time playing ball,,HAVE you ever heard a hitting coach or fellow pro ever talk or mention the word disconnect?

I would doubt it, given how many former pros (and now current color guys like AL Hrabosky) talk about the concept of extension and how important it is.

If course, the problem is that they don't understand what extension is, why it happens, and when it should happen (and when it shouldn't).

[wogdoggy]

I would doubt it, given how many former pros (and now current color guys like AL Hrabosky) talk about the concept of extension and how important it is.

If course, the problem is that they don't understand what extension is, why it happens, and when it should happen (and when it shouldn't).



I would say HG will never tell:silent: and you know why

[merdon133]

I didn't see much wrong with the 1st swing, but the 2nd one, he is leaning a bit backwards as he is swings and he dropped his hands a bit before swinging almost like he was trying to uppercut a fly ball to the outfield. But for his age, his swing is outstanding and very solid.

I have a hard time seeing these things, I'm going to watch/tape a lot more of his swings. But you made his day, like I said he's 9 and works harder then any boy I know at make sure he's improving hitting,pitching and fielding. Problem is he does a lot on his own and I'm afraid that he changes things from time to time to match his favorite player/s(Manny).

[XV84]

As it was described to me, think of it in terms of the domino effect except instead of dominos falling, it's the kinetic chain. Starting with the middle/hip area and "domino'ing" out to the bat head. That is how I look at "connection" within a swing.
Disconnection would be when there is a breakdown somewhere in the chain and something within the system gets out of sequence.

I like using this definition as well, rather than applying it only to the hands.

[FiveFrameSwing]

So when watching video it should be feet - hips - shoulders - hands - bat head? I that about right

Just to clarify, the rotation does not begin with the feet, but with the hips.

[Swing Coach]

I see a lot of older, stronger kids' hands leading the elbow into the swing mainly because they are drilled to death about quick hands. But with the younger kids, I see tons of bat drag (elbows coming first)

My 9-year-old has the opposite problem. We worked rotational hitting to death and he uses his body well, has a nice swing plane...but terrible bat drag (his elbows point at the picther and lead the hands.) I have tried a few fixes, but it is slow work. It's like we totally took the hands out of the equation and eventually got behind. Toward the end of the season, we worked on the "hands beating the elbow"...and used this cue a lot. I didn't really want the hands to win...but this was the only way he understood that the hands have to come down with the elbow, not way late. Does this make sense to any of you who work with young kids?

[jbooth]

I see a lot of older, stronger kids' hands leading the elbow into the swing mainly because they are drilled to death about quick hands. But with the younger kids, I see tons of bat drag (elbows coming first)

My 9-year-old has the opposite problem. We worked rotational hitting to death and he uses his body well, has a nice swing plane...but terrible bat drag (his elbows point at the picther and lead the hands.) I have tried a few fixes, but it is slow work. It's like we totally took the hands out of the equation and eventually got behind. Toward the end of the season, we worked on the "hands beating the elbow"...and used this cue a lot. I didn't really want the hands to win...but this was the only way he understood that the hands have to come down with the elbow, not way late. Does this make sense to any of you who work with young kids?

If you just think of keeping the hands at the shoulder until after the shoulders start to rotate, and think of tucking the back elbow against the side and leaving it there, the elbow won't get ahead of the hand.

You can also use Epstein's drill of putting the bat on the outside of the back shoulder and leaving it there as you rotate, and learn that the bathead will whip around by itself and the hands/arms aren't really needed. The hands "shoot" off the back shoulder, after hip and shoulder rotation.

The problem is, pulling the bat way too soon. The arms and hands don't really get into the act until about here;

[BoardMember]

I define "Connection" as keeping the top hand in a position that core power at the rear shoulder can drive the hands. Core power being defined as the upper torso rotation transfered to the rear shoulder link from the bottom up.

IMO, "Disconnection" happens when the top hand moves away from a position that allows the core power (rear shoulder) to drive the hands, to early.

Maintaining the "V" shape in the rear elbow until the hands must release to get the bat head to the ball, is *key* to staying connected IMO. This is the essense of the Epstein Drill jbooth described. It's basically called "hitting from the shoulder".

On an inside pitch, the "V" shape will hold on longer, and less long on the outside pitch, as the hand are forced to release from this position to find the ball.

IMO, much of Bonds/Pujols/Arod's power comes from this *key*

Here are a few examples of staying connected thinking of this "V" shape *key*:

]

Disconnection and Drag are NOT related. You can stay connected with the top hand at the shoulder, and still lead with the rear elbow. This is why "draggers" still hit with power.




If you just think of keeping the hands at the shoulder until after the shoulders start to rotate, and think of tucking the back elbow against the side and leaving it there, the elbow won't get ahead of the hand.

You can also use Epstein's drill of putting the bat on the outside of the back shoulder and leaving it there as you rotate, and learn that the bathead will whip around by itself and the hands/arms aren't really needed. The hands "shoot" off the back shoulder, after hip and shoulder rotation.

The problem is, pulling the bat way too soon. The arms and hands don't really get into the act until about here;