I really dont care who took steroids!!!!

[Paulypal]

All this crap about Bonds and whoever else. My opinion is I really dont care who took steroids. Does it really matter?

Until we can figure out EVERYONE who used them whats the difference who did. How many of Bonds' homers did he hit off of juiced pitchers? We never hear that angle. Ok so the record is broken....the hated Bonds has the record...did the earth stop spinning on its axis? No. When you went to work was the building still there.....probably I am thinking.

By the way why isnt Todd Helton every mentioned....that is one boy who juiced. No proof, but cmon.

People say "yeah but Aaron, Mays and Mantle were clean"....Oh really were they? Hmmm do you think they didnt use and or abuse amphetamines. Amphets have been abused in baseball for 40 years now. How do you think Mantle played after a night out?

Hyperthetical question...What if you found out Aaron was using Amphets? If you dont think they are a performance enhancer.....take one. What if Mays did, or Mantle? Do you we take the plaques out of Cooperstown?
Where was the public outcry in 1998 when the country was sitting on its fat ass along with MLB watching Mac and Sosa hit 138 homers between them. Please tell me you knew they were taking steroids...please tell me that. It was as obvious as the sun rising. All I know I was entertained by it,,as I have been entertained by Bonds for the last 22 years, and the last 6-7 years its as close to watching Ruth as I ever will get. I enjoyed every minute of it.

Love them or hate but Caminiti and Canseco were dead on accurate. When Canseco's book came out people shrugged him off as a money hungry moron. He may be just that but turns out he was dead on.

If you hate steroid use but the watch the NFL you better turn your TV's off because the whole league is juiced. I dont care what policies are in place in sports. What it comes down to is money...bigger faster, stronger athletes make more money for teams, leagues, television, nike etc etc.

I watch sports to be entertained. Mcgwire, Sosa, Bonds have done just that. I wont pass judgement on 3 players when thousands of players have used them. I wont sit and worry about "hallowed" records....I will just be entertained.

[sharrock]

Sounds to me like you should turn off the TV and SportsRadio and take a break.

[StanTheMan]

All this crap about Bonds and whoever else. My opinion is I really dont care who took steroids. Does it really matter?

By the way why isnt Todd Helton every mentioned....that is one boy who juiced. No proof, but cmon.

People say "yeah but Aaron, Mays and Mantle were clean"....Oh really were they?

So what is your opinion exactly.....

Who Cares?

Wait... THAT guy did it for sure!!

Even the Old Guys did SOMETHING.

I thought you said you didn't care?

I'm not trying to be rude here..... but when you make up your mind.... come on back and share your thoughts.

[uberpsycho]

:clapping

Pretty much agree with everything you said. And share a similar sentiment.

[Paulypal]

I dont care about old guys or new guys and what they did.

I just mentioned that I think Helton did and amphets have been abused.

I dont [care] who puts what in their own body.

[Williamsburg2599]

Now, if you have a different opinion on Bonds, don't post here, just create a new topic!:crazy ;)




We need a banging head against desk smiley

[Johnny Evers]

Sounds to me like you should turn off the TV and SportsRadio and take a break.

That's good advice.

I've reached the point where baseball is more enjoyable if I don't spend my time worrying about steroids. There are so many unknowns that I'm not sure who's clean, who isn't, and why it should matter to me. So - whatever.

[John Shoemaker]

I agree - just sit back and enjoy the games.

[Whitesoxnut]

Boy, Buddy Selig must love some of you guys.

The NFL has been testing since 1989. And MLB didnt start, really start, for another 15 years. And you think during that span, and now, there are more NFL players juicing?:nosleep:

Did you ever stop to think MLB considers us all a bunch of suckers?

[Ytown Tribe fan]

I am not against players taking PEDs. You wanna know why? Because they do it to perform better on the field.

They aren't cheating anyone. They are doing more to help their teams win and make the fans happy and have longer, better careers. They aren't stealing from anyone and they are not hurting anyone except,possibly, themselves.

I am a firm believer that what an adult does to his or her body is his or her's business. That goes for smoking and drinking and PEDs. If they hurt someone else as a result, then the law steps in. If they are adults and hurting themselves only, the law can stay the hell out of it. That's called personal responsibility, and it USED to be as American as baseball and apple pie. Not so much anymore.

When a professional does something to gain a professional advantage, and it helps his company do better against the competition, and doesn't hurt anyone else, then he is ok in my book. If the possible side effects hurt him, and NO ONE ELSE, then he knew the risks and took them anyway, as adults do.

These guys: Sammy and Mac and Barry, are not the Black Sox. They didn't lie and cheat to make their teams LOSE to make money. What they did is quite the opposite. They improved their performance using modern means, as ballplayers HAVE ALWAYS DONE, and took their teams to the postseason, and brought fans into the stadiums. And as long as the owners and execs were all too happy to look the other way, they were not cheating at all. The mediots were voting for these guys come MVP time despite knowing that they were taking PEDs. Now they rail against them. That is why they're called "mediots".

"What about the children who emulate them?" That's the question, eh?

Well, there's these things called PARENTS. The ballplayers have no control over children, but the parents do, and the high school and college coaches do, and once these kids turn 18, they can make adult decision about their bodies too. PEDs are no different than any other drugs or booze or anything else that can harm kids ... and I repeat: kids. Ban 'em, hold the parents responsible, and so on. When the kids become adults, they are responsible for themselves.

Period.

[Dodgerfan1]

That's good advice.

I've reached the point where baseball is more enjoyable if I don't spend my time worrying about steroids. There are so many unknowns that I'm not sure who's clean, who isn't, and why it should matter to me. So - whatever.

Sorry, Johnny, but in my opinion, that's the same as if fans in 1919 had simply chosen to ignore all the players throwing games because it detracted from their enjoyment of the game. I realize throwing games and taking steroids are horses of a different color, but the concept of this sentiment is the same. In both cases, things are being done that could potentially change the outcome of honest games. I don't think that burying your head in the sand, sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "La-la-la, I can't hear you" is the answer, but to each his own. Believe me, I understand what you are saying and am often tempted myself to just say "What the hell" and just accept things as they are, but I think that's a cop out. These things have to be changed, and ignoring the facts isn't going to make that happen.

That may be a pie-in-the-sky wish, but I think it's better than simply ignoring that 800-pound gorilla.

[John Shoemaker]

Boy, Buddy Selig must love some of you guys.

The NFL has been testing since 1989. And MLB didnt start, really start, for another 15 years. And you think during that span, and now, there are more NFL players juicing?:nosleep:

Did you ever stop to think MLB considers us all a bunch of suckers?

IMO almost all the NFL linemen currently use the HGH and there is no way to test for it.

[chrispw1]

I kind of agree in the sense that I don't really worry about who did what. The fact is that there were guys who used and the only way to know for sure is to somehow invent a time machine to test those guys. We don't know how much it added to those guys totals for sure. If they really aided players as much as some people think, then why didn't they send scouts to bodybuilding shows or WWF wrestling events to recruit. I mean there were plenty of other factors that aided them which was how it was explained away back then; smaller ballparks, dilluted pitching from expansion, umps calling smaller strike zones, balls wound tighter, are those suddenly no longer valid? I mean look at how some individual surges were explained away, for Smmy Sosa it was thought to be long hours with Jeff Pentland working on taking better pitches, Luis Gonzalez changing his batting stance. As mentioned earlier in another thread, Bonds was probbaly the dumbest by making it so obvious that many others are off the hook because they were smart enough to start in their 20s and went to a lab that at least so far hasn't been raided by feds and I feel guys like Luis Gonzalez get a pass from suspicion in part because he's considered to be asuper nice guy. Also, people are selective with their outrage to where they only seem upset if it's a home run hitter. In San Diego, many of the fans who booed Barry come this fall will have no problem rooting for Shawnne Merrimann and many of the fans who boo him in Los Angeles and San Diego voted Arnold for governor.

[PVNICK]

IMO almost all the NFL linemen currently use the HGH and there is no way to test for it.
NFL is nuts. Was it only as recently 1986 when Fridge was an anomaly @ 300 pounds. Now he would be small for both OL and DT.

[Dodgerfan1]

If they really aided players as much as some people think, then why didn't they send scouts to bodybuilding shows or WWF wrestling events to recruit.

Um, well.... first of all, who says they didn't? Secondly, bodybuilders and pro wrestlers have far too much muscle mass to play baseball without pulling something sooner or later. Too bulky. But then, you really knew that, right?

[Johnny Evers]

Sorry, Johnny, but in my opinion, that's the same as if fans in 1919 had simply chosen to ignore all the players throwing games because it detracted from their enjoyment of the game. I realize throwing games and taking steroids are horses of a different color, but the concept of this sentiment is the same. In both cases, things are being done that could potentially change the outcome of honest games. I don't think that burying your head in the sand, sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "La-la-la, I can't hear you" is the answer, but to each his own. Believe me, I understand what you are saying and am often tempted myself to just say "What the hell" and just accept things as they are, but I think that's a cop out. These things have to be changed, and ignoring the facts isn't going to make that happen.

That may be a pie-in-the-sky wish, but I think it's better than simply ignoring that 800-pound gorilla.

That's not a fair comparison. In 1919 the Black Sox took money to throw the World Series, compromising the baseball that was played and directly hurting the fans. There hasn't been one moment when I've watched a game and thought to myself, "steroids are preventing me from fully enjoying a competitive ball game."

And I'm not saying that Selig and the rest of baseball shouldn't worry about steroids; that's their job. Mine is to sit back and enjoy the games.

[Dodgerfan1]

That's not a fair comparison. In 1919 the Black Sox took money to throw the World Series, compromising the baseball that was played and directly hurting the fans. There hasn't been one moment when I've watched a game and thought to myself, "steroids are preventing me from fully enjoying a competitive ball game."

And I'm not saying that Selig and the rest of baseball shouldn't worry about steroids; that's their job. Mine is to sit back and enjoy the games.

I do understand that, and share that desire, but the title of your thread I disagree with. I DO care who took steroids. So do most people, IMO, as it should be. If ignoring the steroid issue makes you feel better, then you can pretend it isn't happening and enjoy your games. I enjoy them too, I just realize that certain numbers put up by certain players are tainted, and I will react accordingly.

[hiddengem]

All this crap about Bonds and whoever else. My opinion is I really dont care who took steroids. Does it really matter?

Until we can figure out EVERYONE who used them whats the difference who did. How many of Bonds' homers did he hit off of juiced pitchers? We never hear that angle. Ok so the record is broken....the hated Bonds has the record...did the earth stop spinning on its axis? No. When you went to work was the building still there.....probably I am thinking.

By the way why isnt Todd Helton every mentioned....that is one boy who juiced. No proof, but cmon.

People say "yeah but Aaron, Mays and Mantle were clean"....Oh really were they? Hmmm do you think they didnt use and or abuse amphetamines. Amphets have been abused in baseball for 40 years now. How do you think Mantle played after a night out?

Hyperthetical question...What if you found out Aaron was using Amphets? If you dont think they are a performance enhancer.....take one. What if Mays did, or Mantle? Do you we take the plaques out of Cooperstown?
Where was the public outcry in 1998 when the country was sitting on its fat ass along with MLB watching Mac and Sosa hit 138 homers between them. Please tell me you knew they were taking steroids...please tell me that. It was as obvious as the sun rising. All I know I was entertained by it,,as I have been entertained by Bonds for the last 22 years, and the last 6-7 years its as close to watching Ruth as I ever will get. I enjoyed every minute of it.

Love them or hate but Caminiti and Canseco were dead on accurate. When Canseco's book came out people shrugged him off as a money hungry moron. He may be just that but turns out he was dead on.

If you hate steroid use but the watch the NFL you better turn your TV's off because the whole league is juiced. I dont care what policies are in place in sports. What it comes down to is money...bigger faster, stronger athletes make more money for teams, leagues, television, nike etc etc.

I watch sports to be entertained. Mcgwire, Sosa, Bonds have done just that. I wont pass judgement on 3 players when thousands of players have used them. I wont sit and worry about "hallowed" records....I will just be entertained.


I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is that players like myself trying to pave a way in this game are being/were crushed by users. I was at a breaking point a few yrs back in my career and I decided that I was either going to make it in the game without using or I wouldn't. I knew I would be fighting an uphill battle the whole way and I have. I'm sure I would have more major league time at this point but it is what it is.

The point is, we as players shouldn't be put in a position where we have to put potentially harmful chemicals into our body just to keep up with our competition. It should be man on man, natural abililty vs natural ability. Greenies(amphetamines) I'm fine with those, I've taken a few in my career just to be able to get through a few nights and they helped, but they certainly don't compare to steroids.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is that players like myself trying to pave a way in this game are being/were crushed by users. I was at a breaking point a few yrs back in my career and I decided that I was either going to make it in the game without using or I wouldn't. I knew I would be fighting an uphill battle the whole way and I have. I'm sure I would have more major league time at this point but it is what it is.

The point is, we as players shouldn't be put in a position where we have to put potentially harmful chemicals into our body just to keep up with our competition. It should be man on man, natural abililty vs natural ability. Greenies(amphetamines) I'm fine with those, I've taken a few in my career just to be able to get through a few nights and they helped, but they certainly don't compare to steroids.

Well what is your take on all these hard core pain killers, with the way some atheltes live these anti-inflamatories can be just as bad as roids for you. Also pills like Vikadin and Demerol can really mess you up too, is there just as much pressure to take those to play through the pain?

Also I agree with you that I think it's crap that there are AAAA players who take roids just to become a 7th or 8th hitter on a good team, and that hurts the clean guys. You're right on there. :clapping :clapping

[TonyK]

I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is that players like myself trying to pave a way in this game are being/were crushed by users. I was at a breaking point a few yrs back in my career and I decided that I was either going to make it in the game without using or I wouldn't. I knew I would be fighting an uphill battle the whole way and I have. I'm sure I would have more major league time at this point but it is what it is.

The point is, we as players shouldn't be put in a position where we have to put potentially harmful chemicals into our body just to keep up with our competition. It should be man on man, natural abililty vs natural ability. Greenies(amphetamines) I'm fine with those, I've taken a few in my career just to be able to get through a few nights and they helped, but they certainly don't compare to steroids.

HG,

You make an excellent point. How many good players in the last ten seasons reached AAA ball only to stay there because the guy playing their position on the parent club was hitting 30 to 50 home runs year after year?

[Dodgerfan1]

Greenies(amphetamines) I'm fine with those, I've taken a few in my career just to be able to get through a few nights and they helped, but they certainly don't compare to steroids.

A point many of us have been trying to make, only to be confronted by those who claim that if we are to taint guys like Bonds, Canseco and Giambi with asterisks, why not Aaron, because he took greenies? You are right, Hiddengem, they do NOT compare. These people are trying to make us believe that since both steroids and amphs 'enhance players' abilities', then they should be viewed as if they were equal. Yes, they are both drugs that can enhance performance, but the similarities between the two are like those between murder and robbery. Both are crimes punishable by jail time but that's basically where the similarities end. If one were to view robbery to be as bad as murder, I'd say that person needs a sanity check.

[Paulypal]

I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is that players like myself trying to pave a way in this game are being/were crushed by users. I was at a breaking point a few yrs back in my career and I decided that I was either going to make it in the game without using or I wouldn't. I knew I would be fighting an uphill battle the whole way and I have. I'm sure I would have more major league time at this point but it is what it is.

The point is, we as players shouldn't be put in a position where we have to put potentially harmful chemicals into our body just to keep up with our competition. It should be man on man, natural abililty vs natural ability. Greenies(amphetamines) I'm fine with those, I've taken a few in my career just to be able to get through a few nights and they helped, but they certainly don't compare to steroids.

I agree with some of what you said about health issues etc.....but on the amphets...............So your willing to cheat.........but just a little bit.

My opinion is go ahead take what you want, but on one hand your damning a performance enhancer because YOU wouldnt take it, but saying another is ok because you took it. I realize Amphets is not Roids, but they both enhance performance (or why take them?), and they are both illegal.

This is why I dont really care. The lines are so grayed by who does what that I rather sit and enjoy the game. I love baseball, I love the records but if they go down by players that the public feel are tainted players so be it.

[Paulypal]

A point many of us have been trying to make, only to be confronted by those who claim that if we are to taint guys like Bonds, Canseco and Giambi with asterisks, why not Aaron, because he took greenies? You are right, Hiddengem, they do NOT compare. These people are trying to make us believe that since both steroids and amphs 'enhance players' abilities', then they should be viewed as if they were equal. Yes, they are both drugs that can enhance performance, but the similarities between the two are like those between murder and robbery. Both are crimes punishable by jail time but that's basically where the similarities end. If one were to view robbery to be as bad as murder, I'd say that person needs a sanity check.


So go ahead and rob just dont murder. Both are crimes, yes one is worse than the other, but both are wrong. Its amazing the perception of players from a long time ago. They are hands off no matter what.

[Paulypal]

I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is that players like myself trying to pave a way in this game are being/were crushed by users. I was at a breaking point a few yrs back in my career and I decided that I was either going to make it in the game without using or I wouldn't. I knew I would be fighting an uphill battle the whole way and I have. I'm sure I would have more major league time at this point but it is what it is.

The point is, we as players shouldn't be put in a position where we have to put potentially harmful chemicals into our body just to keep up with our competition. It should be man on man, natural abililty vs natural ability. Greenies(amphetamines) I'm fine with those, I've taken a few in my career just to be able to get through a few nights and they helped, but they certainly don't compare to steroids.

Question for you....How about the player that you jumped ahead of because he refused to take Amphets? (if there is such a player).

[hiddengem]

Well what is your take on all these hard core pain killers, with the way some atheltes live these anti-inflamatories can be just as bad as roids for you. Also pills like Vikadin and Demerol can really mess you up too, is there just as much pressure to take those to play through the pain?

Also I agree with you that I think it's crap that there are AAAA players who take roids just to become a 7th or 8th hitter on a good team, and that hurts the clean guys. You're right on there. :clapping :clapping


I don't know, there are nights when I'm sucking down 6-800mg's of advil because I'm hurting so bad but I've never played on a Vikadin....other guys take vikadin and the like but have to be careful of drug tests. I don't see much abuse of pain killers. I see aderol(sp) and things like that on occasion.

[hiddengem]

HG,

You make an excellent point. How many good players in the last ten seasons reached AAA ball only to stay there because the guy playing their position on the parent club was hitting 30 to 50 home runs year after year?


probably many.

[hiddengem]

A point many of us have been trying to make, only to be confronted by those who claim that if we are to taint guys like Bonds, Canseco and Giambi with asterisks, why not Aaron, because he took greenies? You are right, Hiddengem, they do NOT compare. These people are trying to make us believe that since both steroids and amphs 'enhance players' abilities', then they should be viewed as if they were equal. Yes, they are both drugs that can enhance performance, but the similarities between the two are like those between murder and robbery. Both are crimes punishable by jail time but that's basically where the similarities end. If one were to view robbery to be as bad as murder, I'd say that person needs a sanity check.

I understand your view point, but I'm going to tell you that had steroids been available to those players that abused amphetamines decades ago, they'd of taken juice as well.

[hiddengem]

I agree with some of what you said about health issues etc.....but on the amphets...............So your willing to cheat.........but just a little bit.

My opinion is go ahead take what you want, but on one hand your damning a performance enhancer because YOU wouldnt take it, but saying another is ok because you took it. I realize Amphets is not Roids, but they both enhance performance (or why take them?), and they are both illegal.

This is why I dont really care. The lines are so grayed by who does what that I rather sit and enjoy the game. I love baseball, I love the records but if they go down by players that the public feel are tainted players so be it.

I've played for 10yrs..thats over 1,400 games and I've taken 2 greenies, and those were on the most brutal travel days of all time, where I was a walking zombie.

You really don't care because you don't live in my shoes. If you did you'd have a different perspective.

[hiddengem]

Question for you....How about the player that you jumped ahead of because he refused to take Amphets? (if there is such a player).

During those 2 days out of 1,400 that I took a greeine, I jumped in front of nobody. The people I jumped in front of were out of pure heart, hard work and determination.

[Dodgerfan1]

I understand your view point, but I'm going to tell you that had steroids been available to those players that abused amphetamines decades ago, they'd of taken juice as well.

I have no doubt of that whatever. The fact is, though, that they did not, so the numbers they put up are not as bogus as those put up by steroid users.

[John Shoemaker]

I have no doubt of that whatever. The fact is, though, that they did not, so the numbers they put up are not as bogus as those put up by steroid users.

How do we decide what numbers are bogus when both pitchers and hitters were juiced and more pitchers than hitters have tested positive?

[sturg1dj]

what the average fan needs to realize is that steroids were not against the rules until just recently. So up until that point if you took them is WASN'T CHEATING! it may have been illegal, but that does not make it cheating. Cheating is when you break a rule of the game.

[SamtheBravesFan]

what the average fan needs to realize is that steroids were not against the rules until just recently. So up until that point if you took them is WASN'T CHEATING! it may have been illegal, but that does not make it cheating. Cheating is when you break a rule of the game.

That's moral relativism at this point. Players took PEDs because they knew that they wouldn't be penalized for doing so. Now, they are.

But because of what happened, it's so difficult to weed out who is using. Thankfully, Cal Ripken, Jr. and Tony Gwynn escaped the stigma of the era, but what about others?

[hiddengem]

I have no doubt of that whatever. The fact is, though, that they did not, so the numbers they put up are not as bogus as those put up by steroid users.

Fair enough.

[bluezebra]

All this crap about Bonds and whoever else. My opinion is I really dont care who took steroids. Does it really matter?

Until we can figure out EVERYONE who used them whats the difference who did. How many of Bonds' homers did he hit off of juiced pitchers? We never hear that angle. Ok so the record is broken....the hated Bonds has the record...did the earth stop spinning on its axis? No. When you went to work was the building still there.....probably I am thinking.

By the way why isnt Todd Helton every mentioned....that is one boy who juiced. No proof, but cmon.

People say "yeah but Aaron, Mays and Mantle were clean"....Oh really were they? Hmmm do you think they didnt use and or abuse amphetamines. Amphets have been abused in baseball for 40 years now. How do you think Mantle played after a night out?

Hyperthetical question...What if you found out Aaron was using Amphets? If you dont think they are a performance enhancer.....take one. What if Mays did, or Mantle? Do you we take the plaques out of Cooperstown?
Where was the public outcry in 1998 when the country was sitting on its fat ass along with MLB watching Mac and Sosa hit 138 homers between them. Please tell me you knew they were taking steroids...please tell me that. It was as obvious as the sun rising. All I know I was entertained by it,,as I have been entertained by Bonds for the last 22 years, and the last 6-7 years its as close to watching Ruth as I ever will get. I enjoyed every minute of it.

Love them or hate but Caminiti and Canseco were dead on accurate. When Canseco's book came out people shrugged him off as a money hungry moron. He may be just that but turns out he was dead on.

If you hate steroid use but the watch the NFL you better turn your TV's off because the whole league is juiced. I dont care what policies are in place in sports. What it comes down to is money...bigger faster, stronger athletes make more money for teams, leagues, television, nike etc etc.

I watch sports to be entertained. Mcgwire, Sosa, Bonds have done just that. I wont pass judgement on 3 players when thousands of players have used them. I wont sit and worry about "hallowed" records....I will just be entertained.

So you condone cheating, as long as you can get your 'jollies'.

"I watch sports to be entertained." You must LOVE pro wrestling.

Bob

[bluezebra]

what the average fan needs to realize is that steroids were not against the rules until just recently. So up until that point if you took them is WASN'T CHEATING! it may have been illegal, but that does not make it cheating. Cheating is when you break a rule of the game.

If you do something illegal, you're CHEATING! No matter how you try to rationalize.

Bob

[ChrisLDuncan]

I don't know, there are nights when I'm sucking down 6-800mg's of advil because I'm hurting so bad but I've never played on a Vikadin....other guys take vikadin and the like but have to be careful of drug tests. I don't see much abuse of pain killers. I see aderol(sp) and things like that on occasion.

Wasn't Brett Farve abusing some pain killer a while back? And are those heavy pain killers banned? I didn't know that. Anti-inflammatories are okay as long as they're not used frequently, and with out booze...otherwise kiss your liver goodbye.

[hiddengem]

Wasn't Brett Farve abusing some pain killer a while back? And are those heavy pain killers banned? I didn't know that. Anti-inflammatories are okay as long as they're not used frequently, and with out booze...otherwise kiss your liver goodbye.

I think Brett was abusing Vikadin.

[2Chance]

Steroids were not against the rules until just recently. So up until that point if you took them is WASN'T CHEATING! it may have been illegal, but that does not make it cheating.
Some hyperbole, just to overstate the point: if, after rounding first, you pull a gun on the shortstop to keep him from going to the bag...well, that's illegal, but baseball doesn't have that specifically in their rules. So is that cheating? :crazy

________________________________________
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

[Paulypal]

So you condone cheating, as long as you can get your 'jollies'.

"I watch sports to be entertained." You must LOVE pro wrestling.

Bob

Not sure you actually read my post. I said I dont care if they use roids.I dont condone it but what am I supposed do- cry foul because 75% of MLB has juiced at some point?

You sit there and worry about every player that gets hot if they are juicing.

[sturg1dj]

If you do something illegal, you're CHEATING! No matter how you try to rationalize.

Bob

that is not true at all

you are breaking a law, but as far as the sport goes you are not breaking any rules. It is not cheating at all. Also there are ways around the legality of steroid use. Just look at Chris Benoit, he had perscriptions for it. If a baseball player had a bogus perscription for it would he have been cheating? he wasn't breaking the law or a rule?

[SamtheBravesFan]

Here's a fun thing:

On ESPN's SportsNation, in a poll about cheating, they asked if you go 20 miles per hour over the speed limit on the highway. Apparently, that's cheating. But in the South Carolina driver's manual, it basically says "You should go the speed limit, but the best thing to do is keep up with the traffic". So some "illegal" things have a way around it and they're not really cheating, I guess.

[cardsfanatic]

I've always felt steroids are a red herring. Ballpark size, expansion, new ball, shrinking strike zone and rule changes are more responsible for the HRs in the 90s than steroids (let's not forget some pitchers were taking too).

I look on steroids the same way I would spit balls, shine balls, lower mounds, greenies, cortisone shots, better diets, better workout equipment and other somewhat external factors. In the end, everyone in their era had to deal with their specific environment and if a player was "great" in their era, they should be in the hall regardless of how "right" the environment is judged by others.

[Arnie#6]

i'll be real here, i dont care either. even if they took steroids, you still need a functioning eye and mind to actually hit the ball. as far as i know, steroids never made you see the ball better (glasses/contacts do!) and the matter is that there is a new homerun king, u dont have to like him but you have to give him at least a little bit of credit for staying around baseball as long as he has and continually hitting homeruns

[ESPNFan]

that is not true at all

you are breaking a law, but as far as the sport goes you are not breaking any rules. It is not cheating at all. Also there are ways around the legality of steroid use. Just look at Chris Benoit, he had perscriptions for it. If a baseball player had a bogus perscription for it would he have been cheating? he wasn't breaking the law or a rule?

Uh yeah if your conspiring with a crooked Dr. who is giving you prescriptions you don't need your most likely breaking the law. :crazy

[ESPNFan]

I've always felt steroids are a red herring. Ballpark size, expansion, new ball, shrinking strike zone and rule changes are more responsible for the HRs in the 90s than steroids (let's not forget some pitchers were taking too).

I look on steroids the same way I would spit balls, shine balls, lower mounds, greenies, cortisone shots, better diets, better workout equipment and other somewhat external factors. In the end, everyone in their era had to deal with their specific environment and if a player was "great" in their era, they should be in the hall regardless of how "right" the environment is judged by others.

Wait wait wait. Comparing abusing Steroids/Anabolic substances to cortisone shots, better diets, better workout equipment is not washing with me. All those other things have nothing to do with cheating. They are all perfectly legal advances in modern medicine and athletic training.