Lefty O'Doul

[Baseball Guru]

What are your thoughts on him and the HOF?

His batting average is 4th all-time.. His obp% is 29th all-time...
His 162 game averages are pretty good as well:
190-hits
19-hr's
91-rbi's

He technically played 11 seasons but in reality played maybe the equivalent of 7 full season but he was in the top 5 in hitting 4 times..

Really didn't become a full-time hitter till age 31...

This is not a thread declaring I think he should be in but rather to see what what the general perception of him is overall...

Do you think he just didn't play enough games overall, which hurt his chances the most or are there some other areas that hurt him more?

[PVNICK]

As a contributor, OK. He is credited with doing a lot for Japanese baseball. As a player 3 great seasons in a hitters era with a short career anren't enough.

[Brooklyn]

Agree, career too short, but had a nice 4-5 year run.

I wonder how much better he'd be though of if he got 1 or 2 more hits in 1929. no one that has hit .400 since 1900 is not in the HOF (Joe Jackson aside). That number is so romanticized, that I wonder it he would have garnsihed more support.

[KCGHOST]

As a player his career was way too short. As a contributor he belongs in the Japaneses Baseball HoF.

[jalbright]

He is in the Japanese HOF, and as a contributor, you can certainly make that argument. As a player alone, he's not worthy IMO.

[538280]

Maybe as a contributor, with his contribution to Japanese baseball, but as a player he's not even close. O'Doul was just a solid outfielder with a few good hitting years, who gets some attention because often people don't put his numbers in context, of era and park.

[Freakshow]

Here's a bio of Lefty O'Doul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefty_O%27Doul).

Another bio. (http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Lefty_ODoul_1897)

[Fuzzy Bear]

I go back and forth on O'Doul. He clearly had a high peak value, but he would be an exceptionally short career honored by the HOF. Plus, he's from an era whose players are over-honored.

Two of O'Doul's best years came at the Baker Bowl, which was not quite the Coors Field of its day, but it was very much a hitter's paradise.

I won't object to his being in the HOF. O'Doul was a great player, if only for a short time. He had a long minor league career at a time when the PCL was a more independent minor league, and O'Doul was a celebrity in San Francisco, so he may have lost some years due to being owned by a minor league team. But he's a marginal HOFer at best. Al Rosen and Hal Trosky have better cases.

[Cougar]

I'm a big O'Doul supporter. Obviously a short career, with all the caveats of era and park, but still...wow! It's not just the raw numbers, it's the fact that he won a couple batting titles and a hit title in that span -- it indicates he stood out among his peers.

Then all the "extras"...his role in Japanese baseball...his years in the PCL, and his icon status in San Francisco...starting out as a pitcher...managing in the PCL, and mentoring Joe DiMaggio...

To me, the complete package is clearly enough.

[Cougar]

I also meant to add (tongue-in-cheek) that Lefty O'Doul may be the most Damon Runyon-esque name in baseball history.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I view O'Doul as the equivilent of Paul Hornung in MLB. Paul Hornung is in the NFL HOF in Canton, despite underwhelming stats. He was a star, though; and O'Doul was a star as well. Putting O'Doul in Cooperstown is analogous to putting Hornung in Canton, dontcha think?

[bambambaseball]

I think hes a HOFer only if you look at him like Buck O'Neil. O'Doul and O'Neil didnt do enough as players. They also didnt do enough as contributors. But look at the whole package and they should be there!

[Brad Harris]

I think hes a HOFer only if you look at him like Buck O'Neil. O'Doul and O'Neil didnt do enough as players. They also didnt do enough as contributors. But look at the whole package and they should be there!
Which is why I'm opposed to including playing achievements for consideration of non-playing contributors as much as I'm opposed to including off-field accomplishments in the consideration of players. Oh what a tangled web we weave when non-players the VC did receive.

[Paul Wendt]

I view O'Doul as the equivilent of Paul Hornung in MLB. Paul Hornung is in the NFL HOF in Canton, despite underwhelming stats. He was a star, though; and O'Doul was a star as well. Putting O'Doul in Cooperstown is analogous to putting Hornung in Canton, dontcha think?
The College Football Hall of Fame was established in 1951 and the NFL Hall, oh Pro Football Hall only in 1963 when Hornung was already long in the tooth. One of Notre Dame's golden boys, the best ever in some eyes. Early in his day college football was bigger than pro football; if he played through the transition it was a close call. So shouldn't his popularity and honors be understood partly in those terms?

Perhaps the NFL had nothing to gain by recognizing AFL or AAFC players, because it was top dog in the pro football world, but it and its Hall of Fame had a lot to gain by electing the biggest football stars who split their careers between college and the NFL. Did they elect others of the very brightest stars who were brighter in college than in the NFL?

[Paul Wendt]

I wonder whether there are Japanese conversations like this one and, if so, whether our many of our colleagues challenge or even ridicule honoring O'Doul. I haven't learned anything to support considering him the "father of baseball" in Japan (which would be ridiculous) or even the father of pro baseball or league baseball.