View Full Version : Pitchers who have surprised this season !?
Zagi-CRO
08-09-2007, 03:55 AM
You didn't expect that they could be so good this season !
Ok.
Please, choose three (3) the most surprising pitchers, in your opinion !
My choice is:
Dan Haren
Kelvim Escobar
Tim Lincecum
PVNICK
08-09-2007, 05:01 AM
I voted for Oliver Perez, Harang and Bedard. Bedard was good but over the last month he's been something else. John Maine would have been #1 for me. Carmona is also up there. I guess after yesterday Gallardo and to a lesser extent Guthrie may not qualify.
Erik Bedard
08-09-2007, 05:46 AM
Carmona, Perez, Young, Haren, and Guthrie. I knew Young and Haren were good, but not this good. I thought Perez would just keep on doing his 70 ERA+ thing, and that Carmona would be as useless in a starting role as he was in a closing one. I didn't even know who Guthrie was before ST. Who are the three people that claim that Guthrie hasn't surprised them?
slugger33
08-09-2007, 05:57 AM
Carmona easily. This guy has been horrible his entire career until now. Harang should have won a Cy last year, so he really isn't a surprise.
AutographCollector
08-09-2007, 05:59 AM
No option for John Maine?
SouthPaw77
08-09-2007, 09:59 AM
Had to go with Fausto Carmona for the Tribe.
And although his numbers aren't overwhelming, Dustin McGowan has been a very pleasant surprise for the Jays this season. With his stuff he should be a very key piece to Toronto's pitching puzzle next season.
Now, keeping Halladay, and particularly, Burnett healthy is another story altogether.
FilthySheets
08-09-2007, 10:09 AM
Carmona easily, the guy has very few losses and it was only last yr he was racking up losses and blowing saves for the tribe... also Chris Young, I never thought he would be this good.
Erik Bedard
08-09-2007, 11:49 AM
And you mean to tell me that you all predicted that Jeremy Guthrie would be the front-runner for the AL RoY? Please.
Actually, now that I look at Carmona's splits, last year, while it was certainly defined by his disastrous stint at closer, wasn't all that bad. In fact, between the time when he was moved to the 'pen and the time the Tribe decided he should close ballgames, he had a 0.95 ERA. He's had the stuff before, but we were blinded by his futility over a stretch of four appearances.
GiambiJuice
08-09-2007, 12:01 PM
Harang should have won a Cy last year, so he really isn't a surprise.
Harang led the league in wins (tied) and strikeouts last year but did not receive even one vote for Cy Young. I wonder if that has ever happened before in the history of the award.
Westlake
08-09-2007, 12:35 PM
And you mean to tell me that you all predicted that Jeremy Guthrie would be the front-runner for the AL RoY? Please.
.
Uh, yeah, NO ONE said that. Relax, dude. The world's thoughts don't revolve around the Baltimore Orioles.
Williamsburg2599
08-09-2007, 12:37 PM
Okajima?.......
Senor Octobre
08-09-2007, 01:04 PM
This guy has been horrible his entire career until now.
Entire career? Its his second year in the majors... even his career minor league ERA was 3.41
KCGHOST
08-09-2007, 01:46 PM
Carmona, Okajima, and Soria.
Erik Bedard
08-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Uh, yeah, NO ONE said that. Relax, dude. The world's thoughts don't revolve around the Baltimore Orioles.
11 of the 20 people who voted said that he hasn't surprised them.
BTW, unless the poll is restricted to those with previous MLB service (and it isn't, because Matsuzaka's on it), Okajima and Soria should be on here.
Westlake
08-09-2007, 01:58 PM
And you mean to tell me that you all predicted that Jeremy Guthrie would be the front-runner for the AL RoY? Please.
.
11 of the 20 people who voted said that he hasn't surprised them.
Obviously, 2 different things. You put words in people's mouths by saying they are all trying to say they predicted Guthrie would be front runner for RoY.
Erik Bedard
08-09-2007, 02:10 PM
He was up until last night the front-runner for the AL RoY. If he hasn't surprised you, that means you aren't surprised that he was the front-runner for the AL RoY. If you aren't surprised, that means you predicted it.
Westlake
08-09-2007, 02:24 PM
If you aren't surprised, that means you predicted it.
Not even close.
ChrisLDuncan
08-09-2007, 02:25 PM
I said Beckett, Young, Perez, and Haren.
Beckett I didn't think he'd learn to keep the ball in the park, same thing with Young I didn't think such a FB pitcher would pitch this well, Perez I thought would keep his below average pitching up, and I didn't know Haren could be the best pitcher in the AL.
Brian McKenna
08-09-2007, 02:37 PM
Maddux at 7-9
with run support he could have won easily also on:
4/6, 4/17, 4/22, 5/4, 5/9, 5/31, 6/22, 7/18, 7/28 and 8/3
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=3933
I realize this happens to every pitcher but come on!
What is the definition of a "quality start" and can someone tell me how many he had this year?
Sean Casey
08-09-2007, 02:41 PM
He was up until last night the front-runner for the AL RoY.
Front runner according to who? I can think of three rookies on the Red Sox alone who I would rank higher for RoY than Guthrie.
Erik Bedard
08-10-2007, 05:47 AM
Prior to Wednesday night, he had an ERA under 3, the lowest of any rookie starter. Pedroia and Okajima have cases, but how do you take Matsuzaka over Guthrie? Excluding Guthrie's last two starts, when he lost his status as the front runner, and his time in the bullpen, he had a 2.48 ERA. Even with the excluded parts, he still beats Matsuzaka handily. Add in that both Matsuzaka and Okajima have professional experience at the highest level in Japan, and only Pedroia challenges Guthrie. And discounting his last start, Guthrie beats Pedroia. Right now, I'd take Pedroia, though.
bkmckenna, a quality start is when a pitcher goes at least six innings and gives up no more than three earned runs. Maddux has had 13, meaning that his record (only counting QS) would be 13-11.
Westlake, okay, predicted is not the same as not surprised by. But still, who's not surprised by Guthrie's season so far?
Old Sweater
08-10-2007, 06:01 AM
EB>>>
and only Pedroia challenges Guthrie ????? You mean when Pedroia is batting?? Or ROY award?
Ted Lilly and Jeff Francis deserves mention.
BoofBonser26
08-10-2007, 06:31 AM
Could the 9 people who didn't vote for Fausto Carmona explain how they predicted his Cy-Young candidate (NOT winner, I know that, but you have to agree he'll get votes) season?
Westlake
08-10-2007, 10:24 AM
EB>>> ????? You mean when Pedroia is batting?? Or ROY award?
Ted Lilly and Jeff Francis deserves mention.
Deserve mention for what?
Sean Casey
08-10-2007, 11:05 AM
Prior to Wednesday night, he had an ERA under 3, the lowest of any rookie starter. Pedroia and Okajima have cases, but how do you take Matsuzaka over Guthrie? Excluding Guthrie's last two starts, when he lost his status as the front runner, and his time in the bullpen, he had a 2.48 ERA. Even with the excluded parts, he still beats Matsuzaka handily. Add in that both Matsuzaka and Okajima have professional experience at the highest level in Japan, and only Pedroia challenges Guthrie. And discounting his last start, Guthrie beats Pedroia. Right now, I'd take Pedroia, though.
Matsuzaka may have a higher ERA, but he has almost twice as many wins in just 4 more starts than Guthrie, and he's averagine more than one strikeout per inning. Guthrie's been surprising, but not as much so as some of the others, and certainly not a front-runner for RoY. Maybe if he gets his wins into double digits and keeps his ERA in the low 3.00's, but even then, that's only if the others struggle down the stretch. And Matsuzaka's and Okajima's prior experience in Japan shouldn't be a major factor. Many players who have excelled in Japan have not made a particularly good transition to the majors (Hideki Irabu, Kaz Matsui, Kei Igawa) so it's not like every year there's a new Japanese player in the running for the RoY. Still though, if the season ended today, I'd vote for Pedroia, not because Matsuzaka and Okajima have prior professional experience, but because I just think Pedroia has been better.
PVNICK
08-10-2007, 11:29 AM
Could the 9 people who didn't vote for Fausto Carmona explain how they predicted his Cy-Young candidate (NOT winner, I know that, but you have to agree he'll get votes) season?
I did give him honorable mention.
EdmondsFan#1
08-10-2007, 12:31 PM
Could the 9 people who didn't vote for Fausto Carmona explain how they predicted his Cy-Young candidate (NOT winner, I know that, but you have to agree he'll get votes) season?
I overlooked him.
Westlake
08-10-2007, 12:35 PM
Could the 9 people who didn't vote for Fausto Carmona explain how they predicted his Cy-Young candidate (NOT winner, I know that, but you have to agree he'll get votes) season?
Westlake, okay, predicted is not the same as not surprised by.
............
Erik Bedard
08-10-2007, 04:17 PM
Matsuzaka may have a higher ERA, but he has almost twice as many wins in just 4 more starts than Guthrie, and he's averagine more than one strikeout per inning. Guthrie's been surprising, but not as much so as some of the others, and certainly not a front-runner for RoY. Maybe if he gets his wins into double digits and keeps his ERA in the low 3.00's, but even then, that's only if the others struggle down the stretch. And Matsuzaka's and Okajima's prior experience in Japan shouldn't be a major factor. Many players who have excelled in Japan have not made a particularly good transition to the majors (Hideki Irabu, Kaz Matsui, Kei Igawa) so it's not like every year there's a new Japanese player in the running for the RoY. Still though, if the season ended today, I'd vote for Pedroia, not because Matsuzaka and Okajima have prior professional experience, but because I just think Pedroia has been better.
Matsuzaka is behind in most rate stats, leading in only wins. He also has twice as many losses. Guthrie has the better percentage as well. Matsuzaka also has better strikeout stats, and their K/BB is almost identical. I'd take Guthrie and his lead in WHIP and ERA over Matsuzaka in K/9 and wins.
Okajima is a tough case, since he's a setup guy, not a starter. He's been the best setup guy in baseball this year, but he's still a setup guy with prior big-league experience. I'd have him #3 as of today.
Pedroia would be my pick to win it if the season ended today. He's been solid on defense, and he's had an All-Star caliber bat. I'd take him over Guthrie given current stats, but a week ago I'd still take Guthrie.
BoofBonser26
08-11-2007, 06:17 AM
I overlooked him.
You and everyone in baseball, including us Tribe fans. :laugh
He began the season as our sixth starter - he was supposed to be headed off to AAA after 2 spot stars to begin the year. Well, you can see how that went...
sturg1dj
08-12-2007, 08:50 AM
about a month ago you could have added Verlander and Bonderman to the list....so much for that, even though Verlander didn't do too bad last night
Adam Eaton-PHI
I'm surprised he's this bad. He's lucky he's 9-6.
Zagi-CRO
08-13-2007, 02:30 AM
Standings:
1. Carmona 23
2. Guthrie 18
3. O.Perez 17
I agree, Fausto Carmona have surprised.
He had 2006. 1-10 5.42 !!
And now 13-7 3.26!!
In the AL CY Award race he's on excellent 9th place:
CYP W L ERA SO
Dan Haren 1.66 13 4 2.53 131
John Lackey 1.80 15 6 3.07 126
Josh Beckett 1.80 15 5 3.24 140
Erik Bedard 1.90 12 4 3.11 199
C.C. Sabathia 2.18 14 6 3.52 154
Johan Santana 2.19 12 9 2.98 170
Kelvim Escobar 2.22 12 6 2.74 115
Dais Matsuzaka 2.50 13 8 3.59 159
Fausto Carmona 2.64 13 7 3.26 89
Jus Verlander 2.70 12 4 3.58 133
My votes are in bold.
Beckett-- I knew he was going to have a bouceback year.
Matsuzaka-- His numbers are what everyone was projecting, high 3 ERA with 9 K/9IP.
Lackey-- Stud, always in contention for Cy Young.
Escobar-- Great stuff, just needed to stay healthy to be consistent.
Carmona-- Failed as a closer. Very surprised the move to rotation gave him success.
O.Perez-- Been awful last few years. Finally fixed his mechanics.
Gallardo-- Not the best stuff, but has command. Had his ups and downs.
Peavy-- Off year last year. Was due for bounceback.
C.Young-- Petco certainly helps. Putting it all together.
Penny-- Dodger Stadium helps. Getting more groundouts.
Hamels-- See second half of last year.
Haren-- Nasty splitter. Having career year.
Bedard-- Focused and locating well. Always had the stuff.
Guthrie-- A rookie (that wasn't highly touted), need I say more?
Harang-- Improved numbers, but not that surprising.
Lincecum-- Numbers are on par with his stuff and rookie status.
NYMets523
08-14-2007, 07:40 PM
A lot of options.
Bedard, Perez, and Carmona would be my top 3.
I don't think anyone would have expected Bedard to outpich Santana, which he has. Perez has been better than he's been in years. He's still a bit away from being the ace he was in 2004. And Carmona sucked before this year so he's a surprise.
Haren has gotten better every year so I'm not surprised he is so good now.
howiek
08-15-2007, 08:42 AM
John Maine is one of the Biggest suprises. Back when the Mets got Maine. He was just a throw in. When people talked about that trade it was Benson for Julio and nobody mentioned Maines name.
As for Oliver Perez, he doesn't suprise me. He showed shades of brilliance in the past and just faded. Pirates and Padres gave up on him before. Eventually the Mets will also. I would be great if he pitches well and sticks around. But, I just don't think its going to happen
NYMets523
08-15-2007, 08:46 AM
Perez is a surprise because that 2004 season could have just been a career year. Considering he's made the leap from 3-13 with a 6 ERA to 10-8 (He should be more liek 12-6) with a ERA just a shade over 3, it is a surprise as to how quickly he's improved.
Zagi-CRO
08-16-2007, 01:40 AM
Bedard is one of the greatest !
Against the Yankees he pitched 7 strong innings.
Bedard struck out eight and allowed four hits in seven shutout innings. He is 8-0 in his last 12 starts and hasn't lost since June 10 against Colorado.
Bedard has thrown 20 straight scoreless innings against the Yankees and is 2-0 with a 1.29 ERA in three starts against them this year.
Bedard ran his big league-best strikeout total to 207, becoming the first Orioles pitcher to reach 200 in a season since Mike Mussina fanned 210 in 2000 -- his last season in Baltimore before joining the Yankees.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=270815110