espn bias?

[west coast orange and black]

at last night's giants game, a few people near me told me that jon miller told the radio listeners that he telephoned espn to complain about something. according to miller, espn reported that the crowd at petco park gave bonds a "mixed" reaction to #755.

miller told his audience that he in no uncertain words suggested to espn that they adjust their sound levels because the words of the espn announcers did in no way come close to matching the reaction of the crowd.

i have not heard espn's broadcast, but i take miller at his word. i was at that game. "mixed" is not the most correct word to describe the reaction of the fans to #755. probably 70% of the fans cheered. many of those, wildly. any booing was drowned by the cheering and clapping.

the fans closest to the visiting dugout - most of 'em wearing blue shirts and "sd" caps, gave bonds a standing o as he tipped his helmet when he departed.

"mixed" ain't right.

anyone experienced anything like this from espn during a game?

[Westlake]

Isn't a 70/30 ratio "mixed"?

[digglahhh]

Isn't a 70/30 ratio "mixed"?

I'd say so, but I consider that because ice melts, Jameson on the rocks is a mixed drink...:hp <-- some would say, in more ways than one...:crazy

[SoxSon]

Isn't a 70/30 ratio "mixed"?

That was my first reaction. 70/30 is pretty mixed, no, wcoab?

[west coast orange and black]

70/30 is a landslide. no?
30% gets one an "f".
besides, not all of the remaining 30 booed. many were quiet. probably 'cause it was a no-padre homer or their beliefs of the merit of bonds' numbers.

jon miller was seriously chapped at what he took as unprofessionalism.

[Barry(US)Bonds]

yeah...i would def. have to say that 70/30 in favor of a visiting team Home Run has to be considered a landslide...I don't think ESPN is biased necessarily...they just love controversy

[SoxSon]

70/30 is a landslide. no?
30% gets one an "f".
besides, not all of the remaining 30 booed. many were quiet. probably 'cause it was a no-padre homer or their beliefs of the merit of bonds' numbers.

jon miller was seriously chapped at what he took as unprofessionalism.

The test/grade analogy doesn't work well, only because a score of up to 59% is still failing in most schools. No one would consider 59% of a population a small number.

Your initial post focused on the use of the word mixed, so that's all I was looking at. If out of the remaining 30%, only 10% booed, then I can see how the word mixed would be pushing it.

[Elvis]

70/30 is a landslide. no?
30% gets one an "f".
besides, not all of the remaining 30 booed. many were quiet. probably 'cause it was a no-padre homer or their beliefs of the merit of bonds' numbers.


So your definition of a mixed reaction is anything short of 50/50? ESPN was "biased" to [accurately] report that the PETCO crowd wasn't unanimous in its praise for Barroids. :laugh Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

[west coast orange and black]

soxson: The test/grade analogy doesn't work well
ok, got that.

Your initial post focused on the use of the word mixed, so that's all I was looking at.

i meant to focus on "mixed reaction".
i think that jon miller has good reason to be ticked as the crowd was overwhelmingly favorable towards bonds.
for me, "mixed reaction" connotes something to describe a situation that could almost go either way, or one that is a close call.

[west coast orange and black]

elvis: So your definition of a mixed reaction is anything short of 50/50?
you seem to be the only one to have this take on what i said.
what is your reason for this?

ESPN was "biased" to [accurately] report that the PETCO crowd wasn't unanimous in its praise for Barroids.
jon miller's point is totally lost on you. by your posts re anything bonds-related, even if only remotely, more than likely by choice.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
if you see no merit in my wondering, i understand.
but stop making it about me, man.

[Elvis]

for me, "mixed reaction" connotes something to describe a situation that could almost go either way, or one that is a close call.

So if you threw a dinner party, and the meal that you served: 70% liked and 30% spit out and said was horrible, you wouldn't be willing to say that that meal got a mixed reaction...

Interesting. And you claim ESPN isn't being objective enough. :crazy

[west coast orange and black]

another one of your possiblilities rather than what is actually front and center.
stay with me here: it happened at a ball game, not a dinner party.

there were more than 43,000 people in attendance.
the cheers and clapping drowned any booing.
the padres fans gave bonds a standing o.

consummate professional miller thinks that "mixed reaction" was not the most appropriate description.
neither do i.

[mwb]

Sounds like Miller is being petty on this one.

If 30% of the people were booing, the reaction was mixed. Perhaps Miller should have said Bonds got a positive reaction considering he was on the road. Mixed is a little vague. A supposed pro, with a command of the English language, like Miller should have explained himself a little better.

[digglahhh]

Sounds like Miller is being petty on this one.

If 30% of the people were booing, the reaction was mixed. Perhaps Miller should have said Bonds got a positive reaction considering he was on the road. Mixed is a little vague. A supposed pro, with a command of the English language, like Miller should have explained himself a little better.

That sounds fair.

The irony is that Bonds does really get a mixed reaction everywhere he goes, but not in this way.

Generally negative when he comes up, generally positive if he parks one.

One thing to consider, WCOAB, is that as a percentage of the whole, more of the supporters will clap than dissenters will boo. An audio measurement is probably not the most accurate representation you will get of the actual distribution of sentiment.

[Elvis]

another one of your possiblilities rather than what is actually front and center.
stay with me here: it happened at a ball game, not a dinner party.

there were more than 43,000 people in attendance.
the cheers and clapping drowned any booing.

So what? Suppose the raves for your meal "drowned out" the 30% who were busy puking up in the toilet.

You still haven't explained why it isn't a mixed reaction except to say that the *unbiased* *cough* pro Jon Miller thought so too.

[hiddengem]

Based on Barry's post game interview I'd say he was hearing mainly cheers as well. He said something like to the affect of" This place was great I really apprecitaed it". And when I watched the game all I could see in the background were people standing up and cheering as he rounded the bases. I'll bet is was more like 80/20.

[west coast orange and black]

mwb: Sounds like Miller is being petty on this one .... Miller should have explained himself a little better.

as i said, i did not hear miller's exact account. perhaps he did a fine job of explaining but those who relayed the story did not.
and, there is nothing "supposed" of miller's abilities.

another swipe at all things giants from you.

[west coast orange and black]

digglahhh: ...as a percentage of the whole, more of the supporters will clap than dissenters will boo. An audio measurement is probably not the most accurate representation...

granted. but i was there and saw what i did.
in my initial post i said "probably 70%". i also mentioned the standing o.
those are both from seeing, not hearing.

[west coast orange and black]

hiddengem: I'll bet is was more like 80/20.

well, you do have a better eye than i. :nod:

[EdTarbusz]

80/20 sounds like mixed reaction to me, especially for that event. I doubt if 20% of the crowd booed Aaron when he tied Ruth.

I wonder how many people there didn't boo Bonds but didn't make any noise at all? If I had been there I wouldn't booed but I wouldn't have cheered either.

[west coast orange and black]

elvis: You still haven't explained why it isn't a mixed reaction except to say that the *unbiased* *cough* pro Jon Miller thought so too.

do you think that 99-1 could fairly be considered a "mixed reaction"?
me neither.
98-2? nope.
97-3? 90-10?
uh-uh. and, sorry.

eventually we would separate at whatever ratio for whatever reason(s). perhaps it is just the way that i look at things. not "things related to the giants or bonds". just "things".
the crowd's reaction, in my estimation, was overwhelmingly positive.
"overwhelming" trumps "mixed".

too bad that you have not ever caught an account of the game by jon miller.
many baseball fans think very highly of him.
you outed yourself with your "*unbiased* *cough* pro".

[downstairs]

Considering that:

1. It was a historic home run (by the numbers)

2. Most people at the game went specifically to see this home run. I doubt as many people who wanted to boo him would have taken the time to go to the game just to do that.

3. He was close to SF, and many of the fans were indeed SF fans

I'd say 30% of the people booing is still a resounding negative reaction.

If 30% of the people booed Aaron when he hit his, we'd all agree it was a bizarre mixed reaction.

If Barry were clean, 100% of the people would have cheered him.

[Elvis]

do you think that 99-1 could fairly be considered a "mixed reaction"?
me neither.

Exactly. Thanks for making my point.


too bad that you have not ever caught an account of the game by jon miller.

Wrong again. I've caught many broadcasts by Miller and I like him. However, in this case, he's obviously biased.

[Elvis]

If 30% of the people booed Aaron when he hit his, we'd all agree it was a [bizarre] mixed reaction.


Except for WCOB. ;) Love is blind.

[rockin500]

So if you threw a dinner party, and the meal that you served: 70% liked and 30% spit out and said was horrible, you wouldn't be willing to say that that meal got a mixed reaction...

Interesting. And you claim ESPN isn't being objective enough. :crazy
no i'd say 30% had bad taste buds. ;)

mixed, IMO is somewhere in the middle quintile.

[Elvis]

mixed, IMO is somewhere in the middle quintile.

Well lets say you're moving to a new city. You are around 70% happy and excited about the move, but have 30% sadness and regret about moving away from you friends and familiar surroundings. Is it fair to say you have mixed emotions about the move?

I am truly at a loss to understand the hubbub about ESPN describing the scene as such, except for a homer bias. Am I missing something? :shrug:

[rockin500]

Well lets say you're moving to a new city. You are around 70% happy and excited about the move, but have 30% sadness and regret about moving away from you friends and familiar surroundings. Is it fair to say you have mixed emotions about the move?

I am truly at a loss to understand the hubbub about ESPN describing the scene as such, except for a homer bias. Am I missing something? :shrug:
i dont really use mixed very much in my lexicon to begin with. I would say i'm pretty much happy in that situation. or i would use primarily happy. I just dont like to use mixed unless its pretty much a toss up.

[G.Costanza]

Espn is bias beyond belief.....................Case in point they didnt even put Ichiro breaking an 84 year old(compare that to how frequent the home run mark is challenged) pure hits record( and he also led the league in ibbs as well btw) on Instant classic, but we all remember how the white media celebrated Mcgwire in 98, even though they found andro in his locker, not only that but they didnt even telivise the game for god sakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now Bonds is treated like Jeffrey Dommer.

[digglahhh]

digglahhh: ...as a percentage of the whole, more of the supporters will clap than dissenters will boo. An audio measurement is probably not the most accurate representation...

granted. but i was there and saw what i did.
in my initial post i said "probably 70%". i also mentioned the standing o.
those are both from seeing, not hearing.

Point taken.

You know I like to make my meta-points, though...

[redlegsfan21]

Espn is bias beyond belief.....................Case in point they didnt even put Ichiro breaking an 84 year old(compare that to how frequent the home run mark is challenged) pure hits record( and he also led the league in ibbs as well btw) on Instant classic, but we all remember how the white media celebrated Mcgwire in 98, even though they found andro in his locker, not only that but they didnt even telivise the game for god sakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now Bonds is treated like Jeffrey Dommer.

I don't think there are any baseball games on ESPN Classic.

[iPod]

Honestly, my impression was that it was more like 80/20. One thing people have to remember is that someone who didn't hear it probably anticipated a LOT of boos. I was expecting 50/50, or maybe even 40/60. If I didn't hear the reaction and read later that it was mixed, I would just assume I had guessed correctly and that it was somewhere around 50/50. Jon Miller's point, I'm guessing, is that ESPN's story didn't point out how unexpectedly positive the reaction was, regardless of whether or not it still fit the literal definition of "mixed."

[Elvis]

I was expecting 50/50, or maybe even 40/60.

I can guarantee you if he had hit it three days earlier that's exactly what he would've gotten. :D I have my own opinions of San Diegans who attend games at PETCO Park. :silent: :hide:

[iPod]

I can guarantee you if he had hit it three days earlier that's exactly what he would've gotten. :D I have my own opinions of San Diegans who attend games at PETCO Park. :silent: :hide:

In LA... what? 20/80? 10/90, even? Don't sell your fanbase short.

[PVNICK]

Isn't Jon Miller a/the Giants broadcaster? I would think he might be a teensy bit biased.

At any rate mixed is such an ambiguous word though the connotation is negative that technically it can be both correct and incorrect depending on what side of the fence you're on.

But this is ESPN for crying out loud. Their interest is probably to make, create, or beat a story to death not to be accurate. He should know better. If Phil Mushnik is to be belived Miller lets Joe Morgan slide on numerous inaccuracies and flat out fabrications every time they broadcast together.

[west coast orange and black]

elvis: Am I missing something?

yes. the forest for the trees.
your needle is stuck on 30% despite my phrase "probably 70% of the fans cheered".
(my italics)

[ESPNFan]

I don't know why this has become such a contentious issue. It probably was 65%-75% positive in regards to 755. This shouldn't really surprise anyone as PETCO was probably packed with Giants fans. I wouldn't be surprised if they had been traveling in the same quantities as Sox and Yankee fans during this HR chase and had ticket agents with hoards of high priced seats waiting for the demand.