Roberto Clemente - First Ballot?

[beefkowski]

I'm doing some research on "First Ballot" Hall of Famers. I see on Baseball-Almanac.com that Roberto Clemente is not listed as a First Ballot in their "Baseball Hall of Fame Fast Facts & Frivolites" section. But in Wikipedia, it shows in his stats section that he is a first ballot. I realized that there was a special voting process done for Clemente, and his percentage was 92.69%.

So is he recognized as a "First Ballot" Hall of Famer, or not? Does anyone have a website that states this that is a little more reliable than Wikipedia?

[SamtheBravesFan]

Clemente was a special case: as you probably know, he died in a plane crash on December 31, 1972. The five-year waiting period was waived for him and he was elected immediately in 1973. So he never really had a first-ballot appearance like everyone else, technically.

[beefkowski]

So to clarify, if you were putting together a list of "First Ballot HOF", he should not be listed, correct?

[Captain Cold Nose]

So to clarify, if you were putting together a list of "First Ballot HOF", he should not be listed, correct?

In the traditional sense, yes, he never appeared on a ballot with everyone else, so he's not technically first ballot like Ripken, Gwynn, etc.

He was elected the first time they had the opportunity to elect him, though. The HOF website itself would be considered the most official.

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070215&content_id=283&vkey=hof_news

[Brad Harris]

While Clemente is a special case in that the 5-year waiting rule was waived for him, I would still add him to a list of "first ballot Hall-of-Famers" in that Clemente was added to a ballot along with other candidates (for the first time) and that he was, in fact, elected that year. He was elected in his first appearance on the ballot. What more does the guy have to do to be classified as "first ballot"?

As for Lou Gehrig, the other notorious case, he was elected in 1939, but only through a special election which did not include other players. In short, the writers dealt with Gehrig's election on a separate ballot from the rest of the players that year. So I would say that while the rules were waived to make both of these men eligible earlier, Clemente is a legitimate "first ballot" guy while Gehrig is not.

Either way you want to slice it, both men were elected in their first opportunity.

[MyDogSparty]

Both Gehrig and Clemente were no-brainer HOFers. I've always felt that the HOF induction rules were waived intentionally to get both Gehrig and Clemente in the HOF as soon as possible. I would definitely consider them both "first ballot" HOFers or better.

[1905 Giants]

Both Gehrig and Clemente were no-brainer HOFers. I've always felt that the HOF induction rules were waived intentionally to get both Gehrig and Clemente in the HOF as soon as possible. I would definitely consider them both "first ballot" HOFers or better.

Unanimous is the only thing I can think of for better

[marlins3]

Had they lived to see a true retirement, both Clemente and Gehrig would have been true first-ballot HOF'ers. Clemente was arguably the greatest rightfielder of his generation. He doesn;t get the recognition of Hank Aaron because Clemente played in Pittsburgh and because of Aaron's power.

Clemente played most of his career in Forbes Field which was one of the worst parks ever for power. Clemente's homerun total was modest but would have been much higher had he played elsewhere. In my all-time outfield, I would play Ruth at Leftfield (instead of Rightfield), Clemente in Rightfield, and Willie Mays in center (though I have a bias for Ken Griffey Jr. because he's my favorite modern-day player). My fave players of all time are Ruth, Clemente, Wille Stargell, Ken Griffey Junior, Mike Schmidt, Brooks Robisnon, Johnny Bench, and Josh Gibson. My fave pitchers were Koufax, Satchel Paige, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller, and Randy Johnson. I'm 27 but love the older players.

[MyDogSparty]

Unanimous is the only thing I can think of for better


By "better" I meant that they didn't have to wait the standard 5 years to find out they were first ballot HOFers.

[Macker]

Clemente was added to a ballot along with other candidates (for the first time) and that he was, in fact, elected that year.

The ballots for the 1973 election had been mailed out weeks before Clemente died. When he was voted upon, he was the only name on the ballot. That's why the total votes cast differ from Spahn and the others from the 1973 election.

[Brad Harris]

The ballots for the 1973 election had been mailed out weeks before Clemente died. When he was voted upon, he was the only name on the ballot. That's why the total votes cast differ from Spahn and the others from the 1973 election.

Thank you. I didn't know that. Since that's the case, my opinion changes. Clemente ought to join Gehrig in that special category as having been inducted through special elections.

[Tank Riggins]

Special case or not I would list him as a first ballot HOFer. He would have been anyways. There is no doubt in my mind. I would list him as a first balloter.

[digglahhh]

Special case or not I would list him as a first ballot HOFer. He would have been anyways. There is no doubt in my mind. I would list him as a first balloter.

But this isn't about anybody's opinions, the question was asked with the intent of most accurately representing the historical record. The fact that Clemente had all the makings of a first ballot lock is irrelevant to how we characterize what actually did happen.

Clemente and Gehrig were both elected in their first opportunity possible, but they don't fit "first ballot HOFer title," by the strictest technicalities. If you do choose to include them, I'd suggest a footnote or something that briefly describes the circumstances.

[Brooklyn]

Clemente played most of his career in Forbes Field which was one of the worst parks ever for power. Clemente's homerun total was modest but would have been much higher had he played elsewhere


depends what you consider "much higher". Baseball-reference has his home/road splits, but is missing his first two years. Skipping those two years, he hit 95 homeruns at home and 133 on the road, a sizeable difference to be sure. If he had hit the same number at home as on the road, he would have hit 266, which is a good proxy for a neutral park. As it is, he hit 228 (ignoring the first two years), so his total would have increased 17%. Applying this to the 240 he hit (inlcuding his first two years), you can estimate that he would have hit 280 if his home games were in a neutral park.

I agree this is much higher, but I'm not sure that 280 or 240 is that much of a difference from a mileston perspective. If ha dgotten to 300, that might be a different story, but I don' think we can assume he would have hit 300 career homeruns, unless we assume he played his home games in a very pro-hitter park

[Brian McKenna]

No -- he (and gehrig) was elected by special election - can say he was a first-ballot hofer in the sense that Brooks Robinson or others were.

[Paul Wendt]

I'm doing some research on "First Ballot" Hall of Famers. I see on Baseball-Almanac.com that Roberto Clemente is not listed as a First Ballot in their "Baseball Hall of Fame Fast Facts & Frivolites" section. But in Wikipedia, it shows in his stats section that he is a first ballot. I realized that there was a special voting process done for Clemente, and his percentage was 92.69%.

So is he recognized as a "First Ballot" Hall of Famer, or not? Does anyone have a website that states this that is a little more reliable than Wikipedia?

Wikipedia explains the 92.7% parenthetically as "first ballot" but that is in a sidebar that follows a template. I have not worked on wikiproject baseball but I think I know enough to recognize the real tension between seeking precision and enforcing a limited vocabulary in a feature like those mlballplayer sidebars. The wikipedia biography (the text, not the sidebar) is pretty good:
He was elected to the Hall of Fame posthumously in 1973, thus becoming the first Latin American to be selected and the only current Hall of Famer for whom the mandatory five year waiting period was waived since the wait was instituted in 1954.
Even so, it may be improved by incorporating essentially what Macker says. Anyone can do that.

Again,
I'm doing some research on "First Ballot" Hall of Famers.
. . .
So is he recognized as a "First Ballot" Hall of Famer, or not?
The resolution of this dilemma should depend on the purpose of the research (and writing if it has an audience).

For example, suppose the purpose is analytical. You want to identify patterns in first ballot election including both stability and change. Then Gehrig and Clemente have special status. They are outside the scope of regular BBWAA annual elections, same as the vote for 1936 old-timers.