Congratulations to Tom Glavine

[AutographCollector]

In beating the Cubbies tonight he gets career win #300.
GREAT JOB TOM!!!

[geezer]

Congrats to Tom, a hard working pitcher that after a lot of sacrifice and of years of being a great pitcher, became the 23rd pitcher to achieve a milestone most pitchers wish they can achieve, and that is the 300-win plateau, and now along with his former teammate Greg Maddux, the can be reunited in the future in Cooperstown.

[milladrive]

:applaud:

:thumbsup:

[freshprince85]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Tom Glavine #300 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I´ve said it already in the Mets thread and the Cubs thread:


Thanks to the great people of Chicago for that awesome behaviour

[Dogdaze]

Congratultions Tom Glavine on your 300th win, way to go! :applaud: :clapping :thumbsup:

[Cowtipper]

Congrats to Tommy Glavine. You know, when he first came to the Mets, I thought he was a waste, but I don't think that anymore...

[NewEnglandAmazins]

:applaud: Congrats to Tom Glavine on Win #300.:applaud:

[digglahhh]

Way to go, Glav.

Glavine is an exemplary professional athlete, in basically all ways possible.

[lovethegame]

May I add my kudos to a sure HOF star.

[fenrir]

congrats tom, now a sure fire hofer.

[Captain Cold Nose]

He should have stuck with hockey.

Glavine gets a bit under regarded pitching in an era with four arguable top 10 pitchers, and it's good to see him reach a goal that will resonate to the general public. He deserves every accolade he gets.

[philipthegreat]

Congrats Tom Glavine ffor winning 300

BRAVO

[Barry(US)Bonds]

Eh...Glavine's Decent

[AutographCollector]

Eh...Glavine's Decent

Uhhh... yeah. :thumbsdown:
And why would you say something so silly like that?

[SamtheBravesFan]

Uhhh... yeah. :thumbsdown:
And why would you say something so silly like that?

Anything to keep Barry Bonds as the attention-getter. ;)

[AutographCollector]

Anything to keep Barry Bonds as the attention-getter. ;)

Yeah, I just realized that.
Let's just stick to the topic which is Glavine's success. (Bonds has 4 million other threads about him)

[geezer]

Check out this article:

Tom Glavine Wins 300th:
08-06-07

Tom Glavine finally did it…he got to #300. The question is how? Without question, he’s one of the all time greats and a “sure fire” Hall of Famer, but let’s face it, you look at his stuff and his game and you wonder where’s the dominance? What’s that one thing that he has, that no one else has? What can do that no one else can do? And you just don’t see it! He doesn’t run up 98 miles an hour like Randy Johnson. He doesn’t have Barry Zito’s “filthy hook”. Or Johan Santana’s slider! He has none of that!

What he does have is enormous “stones” and an enormous trust in his stuff. And a baseball I.Q. of about 200! And while not physically overpowering, pound for pound, he’s tough a guy as you’ll ever see. He’s never once been on the D.L. and the guy just knows how to pitch. Up, down, in, out, fast, slow, slower and slower. No one can think their way through a game like Tom Glavine. Not bad for a “wannabe NHLer”. See you in Cooperstown, Tom.

[AutographCollector]

Check out this article:

Tom Glavine Wins 300th:
08-06-07

Tom Glavine finally did it…he got to #300. The question is how? Without question, he’s one of the all time greats and a “sure fire” Hall of Famer, but let’s face it, you look at his stuff and his game and you wonder where’s the dominance? What’s that one thing that he has, that no one else has? What can do that no one else can do? And you just don’t see it! He doesn’t run up 98 miles an hour like Randy Johnson. He doesn’t have Barry Zito’s “filthy hook”. Or Johan Santana’s slider! He has none of that!

What he does have is enormous “stones” and an enormous trust in his stuff. And a baseball I.Q. of about 200! And while not physically overpowering, pound for pound, he’s tough a guy as you’ll ever see. He’s never once been on the D.L. and the guy just knows how to pitch. Up, down, in, out, fast, slow, slower and slower. No one can think their way through a game like Tom Glavine. Not bad for a “wannabe NHLer”. See you in Cooperstown, Tom.

I thought that was a "slam" on him, until I read the last paragraph. The article is right, he doesn't overpower hitters, he "underpowers" them.

[Barry(US)Bonds]

Don't get me wrong...Tom Glavine has had an excellent, long career with 3 or 4 exceptional seasons (enough for an easy entrance into the hall by any stretch of the imagination). However...his win total is overrated. 300 wins are amazing, but in his case are as much a testament to his longevity and playing on great teams as anything else. Glavine is also #2 among active players in losses. His career WHIP (1.31) and lgERA (4.16) are just ok (when compared to other greats)

[SamtheBravesFan]

Don't get me wrong...Tom Glavine has had an excellent, long career with 3 or 4 exceptional seasons (enough for an easy entrance into the hall by any stretch of the imagination). However...his win total is overrated. 300 wins are amazing, but in his case are as much a testament to his longevity and playing on great teams as anything else. Glavine is also #2 among active players in losses. His career WHIP (1.31) and lgERA (4.16) are just ok (when compared to other greats)

Well, he is only the fifth lefthander in history to win 300 games, that should at least count for something.

You must mean his career ERA+, which is 119. He has had five straight years where his ERA+ is below 120, so that drags him down a bit, but that shouldn't discount what he has done.

[Barry(US)Bonds]

Well, he is only the fifth lefthander in history to win 300 games, that should at least count for something.


Why should this count for anything?

I love how everyone acts like being left-handed in baseball somehow hampers your chances of being good. If anything (using the 300 win example) the opposite is true. Only 10% of the US is left-handed. Before Glavine won it 4/22 players with 300 wins were left-handed (18%). Wouldn't this suggest is it easier for a lefty to win 300 games? Just b/c the cat was born a southpaw is no reason to rank him higher than other pitchers. The only reason people look at this is that it is different, rare. Please don't make the argument that this should somehow factor into his worth as a pitcher.

[Senor Octobre]

A great pitcher (who I saw pitch against Montreal in 2004). Congrats Tom! Now retire and start working on your speech

[digglahhh]

Why should this count for anything?

I love how everyone acts like being left-handed in baseball somehow hampers your chances of being good. If anything (using the 300 win example) the opposite is true. Only 10% of the US is left-handed. Before Glavine won it 4/22 players with 300 wins were left-handed (18%). Wouldn't this suggest is it easier for a lefty to win 300 games? Just b/c the cat was born a southpaw is no reason to rank him higher than other pitchers. The only reason people look at this is that it is different, rare. Please don't make the argument that this should somehow factor into his worth as a pitcher.

I'm fully aware of this. But, ironically, I think the case for left-handed greatness being tougher is actually derived from this point, in the opposite direction though.

The imbalance of handedness also dictates that a lefty pitcher will be disproportionately on the wrong side of the platoon advantage against hitters.

Now, lefties are represented in the game of baseball at a higher rate than they are in the general population, which is a consideration to be make to both sides of this argument.

Either way, it doesn't influence his "worth " in a strict, endpoint sense of the word. Some people may indeed think his was a harder road to climb, and that might play into their perception of him. I can see both sides, I try to differentiate the (relatively) small area of greatness that is not overlapped by value. These of course are individual perceptions.

[STLCards2]

I'm fully aware of this. But, ironically, I think the case for left-handed greatness being tougher is actually derived from this point, in the opposite direction though.

The imbalance of handedness also dictates that a lefty pitcher will be disproportionately on the wrong side of the platoon advantage against hitters.

Now, lefties are represented in the game of baseball at a higher rate than they are in the general population, which is a consideration to be make to both sides of this argument.

Either way, it doesn't influence his "worth " in a strict, endpoint sense of the word. Some people may indeed think his was a harder road to climb, and that might play into their perception of him. I can see both sides, I try to differentiate the (relatively) small area of greatness that is not overlapped by value. These of course are individual perceptions.

Lets not forget that Glavine is very unique in the fact that for the most part he has performed better against righthanders than lefthanders (2006 being a big exception). For Glavine, the platoon "disadvantage" might be an advantage.

Speaking of strange outliers for Glavine (2006 rates vs. lefties) Glavine is the king of strange outliers.

Here is a guy who has averaged about a .5 BB/9 less than average, but in .93 and '01, he was among the worst in all of baseball walking guys.

Glavine had an average/below average BABIP almost every year but was awful in 1994 and 1999. With the variables involved with BABIP, this is pretty normal, I must admit.

Glavine is a known GB specialist, but he had a few years ( '93, '02, '07) which he gave up almost as many flyballs as groundballs.

Glavine's career is full of strange outliers, DIPs busting abilities, and strange splits that define every bit of logic or normal patterns of pitching. Even the way he worked around batters with runners on in comaprison to most pitchers who go after guys is unique. Glavine is a unique case study to say the least.

It has been my pleasure to study this man's nueances over the years to determine the causes of his greatness (refering back to geezer's article)

Also...

Barry(US)Bonds- The 4.16 lgERA is actualy a point very much in favor of Glavine. As mentioned, his 3.49 ERA vs. the 4.16 lg ERA has produced a 119 ERA+ for Glavine. For a guy with 4,300 innings, 119 (only 2-3 RSAA from 120) is fantastic. Even if you factor in the 50 runs (estimated) that Glavine's defenses have saved, that puts him at 116. Adjust the 4,300 innings to an all-time innings rate (about 4,900) and you get a guy with Gaylord Perry/Steve Carlton type numbers. This doesn't even factor in the 30 runs he has created above average with his bat. Now you are talking about a 4,300 IP (4,500 including playoffs), 118 RSAA/RCAA/defense-adjusted ERA+ pitcher- pitching during the most difficult time to accumulate innings in baseball history.

[ColbyPants]

Congrats to the pride of Billerica, Ma on 300, he deserves it! WooHoo!

TomC

[geezer]

Now I see this AD, and Who will now that this will be remembered for years to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltD21rYWVw

[SamtheBravesFan]

Now I see this AD, and Who will now that this will be remembered for years to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltD21rYWVw

That's the best ad EVER. :D

[digglahhh]

Lets not forget that Glavine is very unique in the fact that for the most part he has performed better against righthanders than lefthanders (2006 being a big exception). For Glavine, the platoon "disadvantage" might be an advantage.

Speaking of strange outliers for Glavine (2006 rates vs. lefties) Glavine is the king of strange outliers.

Here is a guy who has averaged about a .5 BB/9 less than average, but in .93 and '01, he was among the worst in all of baseball walking guys.

Glavine had an average/below average BABIP almost every year but was awful in 1994 and 1999. With the variables involved with BABIP, this is pretty normal, I must admit.

Glavine is a known GB specialist, but he had a few years ( '93, '02, '07) which he gave up almost as many flyballs as groundballs.

Glavine's career is full of strange outliers, DIPs busting abilities, and strange splits that define every bit of logic or normal patterns of pitching. Even the way he worked around batters with runners on in comaprison to most pitchers who go after guys is unique. Glavine is a unique case study to say the least.

It has been my pleasure to study this man's nueances over the years to determine the causes of his greatness (refering back to geezer's article)

Also...

Barry(US)Bonds- The 4.16 lgERA is actualy a point very much in favor of Glavine. As mentioned, his 3.49 ERA vs. the 4.16 lg ERA has produced a 119 ERA+ for Glavine. For a guy with 4,300 innings, 119 (only 2-3 RSAA from 120) is fantastic. Even if you factor in the 50 runs (estimated) that Glavine's defenses have saved, that puts him at 116. Adjust the 4,300 innings to an all-time innings rate (about 4,900) and you get a guy with Gaylord Perry/Steve Carlton type numbers. This doesn't even factor in the 30 runs he has created above average with his bat. Now you are talking about a 4,300 IP (4,500 including playoffs), 118 RSAA/RCAA/defense-adjusted ERA+ pitcher- pitching during the most difficult time to accumulate innings in baseball history.

Good points, as always StL. Some of the more radical objections to Glavine have motivated you to do some very thorough research on him. And I, for one, am indebted and grateful for that.

My point was more in response to the conditions that lefties face overall.

Imagine if the proportion of lefties and righties in the ML was reversed. Randy Johnson might then be a strong candidate for the greatest of all time.

Glavine's ability to get righties out, and his undoubted devotion to developing and honing those skills are a great testament to his talent and mental approach to the game. Young Mets pitchers not only have a very good pitching coach in their corner, but two first ballot HOF pitchers (one RH and on LH) whose brains they can pick. That's unquantifiable.

[Barry(US)Bonds]

yeah...i recant all of my statements...glavine is bomb

[Defense Counts!]

When was the last time that three-300 win pitchers (Clemens, Maddux, Glavine) were active at the same time?

[Senor Octobre]

When was the last time that three-300 win pitchers (Clemens, Maddux, Glavine) were active at the same time?

After all of them had already achieved 300 wins? Thats a tough one:lookitup

[STLCards2]

After all of them had already achieved 300 wins? Thats a tough one:lookitup

If I am not mistaken, Don Sutton, Phil Niekro, Tom Seaver, and Steve Carlton were all active and 300 game winners at the very end of the 1986 season.

Sutton, Niekro, and Carlton all played in 1987 too.

[sharrock]

As a baseball fan it has been fun keeping tabs on Glavine's career. I try to follow all the MLBers from VT,MA,NH, and ME. I truly enjoyed Galvine's reactiona nd celebration at the end of the game the other night. Good for him and I look forward to his HOF day. I've never liked the Braves nor Mets but I do like Glavine.