Great Story on Bonds and Racism

[Robin Yount]

Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds haters in this forum and the general public use the whole roids thing to mask their own racism. Hammerin' Hank part 2.


Bonds bemoans taunts' impact on daughter

By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
August 2, 2007





LOS ANGELES – The 8-year-old girl stood a few feet from the man mocking her father. She seemed somewhat oblivious, and considering the situation's flammability, that was probably a for the best.

Because were she just a few years older, how would Aisha Bonds, daughter of Barry Bonds, have reacted to the Caucasian man who painted his face brown, wore matching latex skin over his head and stuffed a muscle suit beneath his authentic No. 25 jersey?

"You look funny," she said, according to the man who played the imposter, 22-year-old Scott Keighley Jr., and his father, 47-year-old Scott Keighley.

Good thing Bonds himself missed the pathetic minstrel show. Rage – roid or otherwise – surely would have been warranted.

ADVERTISEMENT



"It's no big deal," Keighley Jr. said Wednesday about the scene that had played out a night earlier. "We're just trying to have some fun."

En route, he and his father overstepped the line between fun and moronic. The elder Keighley sported a white lab coat, playing BALCO founder Victor Conte to his son's Bonds. They wore costumes for the first two games of the San Francisco Giants' series against the Los Angeles Dodgers, sitting in the third row behind home plate, which gave them postgame access to the area about 15 feet from the Giants' clubhouse entrance.

Aisha Bonds had waited for her father there among the Dodgers fans streaming out Tuesday.

"I walked away just so she wouldn't be able to put two and two together, just so she might think (Scott Jr.) is a fan," Keighley said. "I don't think kids can know that.

"I would never hurt a kid or say anything to a child in any way. We didn't want to hurt her feelings."

He didn't, it appeared. Innocence spared her.

And the moment reinforced that Hank Aaron wasn't the only one on a legendary home run chase to deal with racism, both tacit and overt.

This is nothing new for Bonds, and his return here – where he experiences the greatest loathing – triggered the kind of display that would curdle anyone's sensibilities.

In fact, Bonds said in the Giants' clubhouse before going 0 for 3 with an intentional walk Wednesday nightin a 6-4 loss to the Dodgers that sometime within the last year opposing fans' nonstop jeering made Aisha wonder why all these strangers were saying mean things about her dad.

"My daughter already had her breakdown," Bonds said. "She's over it."

The subject surfaced after the Dodger Stadium crowd had greeted each of Bonds' at-bats with increasing fury the first game of the series. Bonds sat at his locker before Wednesday's game, hand on chin, looking like he'd rather be with his pal Greg Anderson in prison than shadowed by the media in the cramped visitors' clubhouse.

As much as Bonds tried to play sunny – among his assessments: "I feel good," "I'm enjoying it" and "I'm having a good time" – his disposition said something entirely different, and his reaction to Dodgers fans confirmed it.

"The only thing that bothers you is when your little kids are around and you've got adults acting like children," Bonds said. "That's the only thing that bothers you. They pay their money. They're going to say what they want to say."

Now in his 22nd season, Bonds learned that long ago. Still, for the boos to echo so loudly when he's on the cusp of what commissioner Bud Selig, on hand for the festivities, called "the greatest record in American sports" is not exactly a warm fuzzy.

So Bonds slogs through it, stuck on 754 home runs, a full-time security guard on his hip for the journey, trying to steel himself after a July in which he hit .186, his worst month since April 1991. He said he doesn't see the cameras clicking during his at-bats, doesn't hear the voices that chant "Ste-roids, ste-roids," doesn't feel pressure to hit Nos. 755 and 756.

And if so, good for him. Because some of what he would see, hear and feel is anything but funny.


Jeff Passan is a national baseball writer for Yahoo! Sports. Send Jeff a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

Updated on Thursday, Aug 2, 2007 11:32 am, EDT

Email to a Friend | View Popular

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ar59d2AQJ34apTOirNbVvrYRvLYF?slug=jp-bonds080207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Robin Yount]

It's pretty convenient to hide behind the cover of steroids now isn't it

[Williamsburg2599]

It's pretty convenient to hide behind the cover of steroids now isn't it

How many times do we have to have this stupid discussion?:rolleyes: Are we forgetting that what color Henry Aaron's skin was? So one drunken idiot of a fan does something semi-racist, and your accusing everyone who dislikes/hates/doesn't bow down to Bonds is a racist? Are there people out there a small group of people who hate Bonds because he is black? Sure. But I take offense to you accusing me and every other Bonds "hater" out there of being a racist.


And on another note, how come your not Jumping on Bonds for only hitting .186 last month? Because now Bonds is playing just as bad as Aaron was in his last season's July (1976), where he bat .185.

[mwb]

Sounds like someone is hiding behind racism.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Many probably are, on both sides, mwb.

The racial ills of this country are not going to be solved in a baseball forum. While it's fine that you post such an article RY, it is not fine to throw out accusations. Uncivil posts will be removed.

[MyDogSparty]

Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds haters in this forum and the general public use the whole roids thing to mask their own racism. Hammerin' Hank part 2.


Bonds bemoans taunts' impact on daughter


What exactly do you find racist in this article?

[mwb]

Maybe if Bonds would explain his association with BALCO & how he became the Incredible Hulk, his daughter would be spared the steriod taunts. Instead Bonds would rather have his daughter be taunted then blame everyone else but himself.

[mwb]

"What exactly do you find racist in this article?"

I was trying to figure that out too. Either the fact that the hecklers painted themselves black or the accusation they are racist has been created by RY to link racism to their taunting. It's a bit of a stretch.

[Chris from NY]

I'm sure their may be fans who dislike Bonds for the colour of his skin, his often surly attitude, or others things, but really it just seems like he is disliked because he is about to break one of the biggest records in pro sports, and he is allegedly going to do it with the help of steroids. No sense trying to read any further into it than that.

[Captain Cold Nose]

The taunting itself isn't necessarily racist. Painting oneself a different color can definitely be considered racist. Why do you think Ted Danson got in so much trouble a few years go?

So why isn't Matt Lawton getting similar treatment, or vitriol from the anti-Bonds faction in this forum? Or the rest of those who have tested positive for steroids or are under the suspicion of having taken them? Nothing to do with race, just wondering why the vitriol toward Bonds is so much greater than it is toward anyone else. What you've heard from "people" in regards to his demeanor is only what you've heard, not necessarily reality. So why Bonds and no one else?

[west coast orange and black]

the great majority of the fans at dodger stadium are there for the show. and the show is barry bonds.

thousands tauntingly chant his name and call him names, feigning disgust at the bonds’ physique, selection of associates and homerun numbers. they probably feel that it is their duty to do so. but when bonds is up at the plate camera flashes make quite the spectacle - even at a place so close to hollywood.

bonds is the show.

when bonds is finished with an at bat, only then do thousands stream up the aisles to the concession stands.
they don’t dare to miss what might happen -- history.

bonds is the show.

the fans at dodger stadium famously arrive late and leave early, but the seats for the first two games filled faster than for any other games within memory. but as soon as bonds left the game, so did nearly half of those in attendance.

bonds is the show.

dodger stadium had 8 sellouts in their first 53 home games.
with bonds in town, make that 11 outta 56.

bonds is the show.

my take is that the keighleys – both senior and junior – did not act in a racist manner. i did not read where either said something that could be taken as racist. it’s simply that the keighleys desperately wanted to be a part of the show, but just don’t know how to compete with bonds, the real show.

[Chris from NY]

So why isn't Matt Lawton getting similar treatment, or vitriol from the anti-Bonds faction in this forum? Or the rest of those who have tested positive for steroids or are under the suspicion of having taken them? Nothing to do with race, just wondering why the vitriol toward Bonds is so much greater than it is toward anyone else. What you've heard from "people" in regards to his demeanor is only what you've heard, not necessarily reality. So why Bonds and no one else?
My theory on that is A) Bonds is closing in on one of the most prestigious records n all of sports, and B) The media has seemed to be anti-Bonds since before the steroids stuff. Bonds doesn't like the media and the media doesn't like Bonds. I'm not saying the average fan can't make up their own mind about what they think of the guy, but the media does hold certain powers in that regard. Barry will always be written about much more negatively than someone like Matt Lawton or anyone else whose name is affiliated with alleged steroid use.

[west coast orange and black]

williamsburg2599: And on another note, how come your not Jumping on Bonds for only hitting .186 last month? Because now Bonds is playing just as bad as Aaron was in his last season's July (1976), where he bat .185

don't know about you, but i remember aaron very late in his career.
he had his moments but in no way struck fear in the opposition the way that bonds still can.

ya know, i can not help your praising of aaron down there in your signature. i hope that you are not back-dooring a slight of any other player(s) while doing so. that would be an undeserved slap at the mighty hammer.

but, aaron's 1975/76 and bonds' 2007: do you really wanna go there?

[mwb]

Hooray. Bonds is the show. Baseball is one step closer to professional wrestling.

It's official-Bonds is now bigger than the game. I hope baseball can continue after he retires.

Maybe they should kick the scrawny guys out of the Hall of Fame & in the future only induct big muscular guys or guys who were controversial & had a large group of people who either loved them or hated them.

[west coast orange and black]

typical to mock what is not understood.

[mwb]

Bonds is the show for some of the wrong reasons. That's what you don't understand. If Bonds was the show because he is a member of a rival team & a player that could defeat the home team, then that would be the right reasons. In addition, if he was the show solely because he's about to break the HR record, that would be a right reason.

However, he's also the show because people think he's a cheater. That's the wrong reason. That should not be celebrated. I'd shut down baseball before I celebrate huge crowds coming to taunt someone they think is a cheater.

[bryanac625]

Is it racist every time a white person goes out in "blackface?" Well, I can think of at least two instances where I would not recommend it:

1) if you're running for political office;

2) you're a young white guy meeting your black girlfriend's parents for the first- or even the second- time.

[Mattingly]

Is it racist every time a white person goes out in "blackface?" Well, I can think of at least two instances where I would not recommend it:

1) if you're running for political office;

2) you're a young white guy meeting your black girlfriend's parents for the first- or even the second- time.
Since when did this become the water cooler section of a baseball forum? All I can say is that whoever dates who, I don't see why there's need for any discussion on blackface or any other non-baseball social issues. You may wish to check out the history of things like this which were used about 5-6 decades ago.

Anyway, this thread was recently covered in this thread: racism in the bleachers (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=63859).

All:

This is a baseball forum, so please keep things strictly focused on baseball. I believe there are already quite a few newsgroups and forums on the Internet dedicated to ethnical and socio-economic discussion. Please feel free to visit those sites and discuss the subject that they're dedicated towards. Over here, we prefer to focus on *BASEBALL*, thank you! :)

[sandlot]

...I don't see why there's need for any discussion on blackface or any other non-baseball social issues. You may wish to check out the history of things like this which were used about 5-6 decades ago.Blackface would indeed be a non-baseball item -- if someone didn't show up at a baseball game dressed that way to comment upon a baseball player who's the most talked about individual in baseball, possibly the best baseball player ever and who's about to break the all-time baseball record for homeruns (and, incidentally in the process of this little masquerade, risk hurting a child's feelings very deeply, whether she was a player's child or another kid of color who just happened to be in the stands at a baseball game). I'm rather suprised that this guy wasn't stopped at the door and asked whether his attire, arguably suitable for a private halloween party, might not be appropriate for attending a baseball game. At least one of these individuals had the decency to walk away. This incident, in its way, reveals yet again that while racism may not be the cause of the anti-Bonds hatred, racism -- conscious or unconscious -- is undeniably a fueling factor. Incidents like these also suggest that there's good reason to believe that at the end of the day, Barry Bonds -- like many deeply flawed but iconic figures before him -- will prove to be greater than his detractors.

[jwkfs]

Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds haters in this forum and the general public use the whole roids thing to mask their own racism.


Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds lovers in this forum and the general public use the whole race thing to mask the roids issue.

The fact is Bonds has been a jerk to the media, a jerk to the fans, and engaged in more race-baiting that you can shake a stick at. And if you can read the leaked grand jury testimony and with a straight face tell me that you don't think that he used something (knowingly or not!), then I have some nice ocean front property in Arizona you might be interested in.

I for one am tired of reading about Bonds and whether or not one is racist for disliking him. If Bonds were white or brown or green or yellow or purple, he'd still be a controversial figure and plenty of people would still dislike him.

[Elvis]

bonds is the show.

when bonds is finished with an at bat, only then do thousands stream up the aisles to the concession stands.
they don’t dare to miss what might happen -- history.


Sounds like you've never watched a Dodger Giant game at the Ravine before. Dodger fans have ALWAYS been glued to Barroids at bats because he's the most hated player to ever visit the Ravine. Dodger fans want to see Barroids strike out. If Dodger fans want Bonds to hit a home run than tell me why they wildly cheer when he K's? :noidea

Derek Lowe made an asinine comment yesterday--saying how he didn't understand Dodger fans because they boo Barry when he comes up and boo when he gets an intentional walk. Duh, Derek! We want to see him K!

[Westlake]

Sounds like you've never watched a Dodger Giant game at the Ravine before. Dodger fans have ALWAYS been glued to Barroids at bats because he's the most hated player to ever visit the Ravine. Dodger fans want to see Barroids strike out. If Dodger fans want Bonds to hit a home run than tell me why they wildly cheer when he K's? :noidea

Derek Lowe made an asinine comment yesterday--saying how he didn't understand Dodger fans because they boo Barry when he comes up and boo when he gets an intentional walk. Duh, Derek! We want to see him K!

Is that why there are thousands of flashbulbs that go off every time he swings, Marcus? They want a picture of him striking out? I'm sorry, I don't think I can buy what you're selling. If A-Rod was in Boston during this 500 HR thing, everyone would be glued to their seats to see if he hits it, but if he K'ed OF COURSE they will cheer. All of my buddies HATE Barry Bonds, but when the Giants were on TV the other night, they asked me to call them into the house when Barry was going to bat, and I dont think it was to watch him strike out.

Even people that don't like him want to see that HR when it happens so they can say that they saw it. It's history, for better or worse.

[Mattingly]

Blackface would indeed be a non-baseball item -- if someone didn't show up at a baseball game dressed that way to comment upon a baseball player who's the most talked about individual in baseball, possibly the best baseball player ever and who's about to break the all-time baseball record for homeruns (and, incidentally in the process of this little masquerade, risk hurting a child's feelings very deeply, whether she was a player's child or another kid of color who just happened to be in the stands at a baseball game). I'm rather suprised that this guy wasn't stopped at the door and asked whether his attire, arguably suitable for a private halloween party, might not be appropriate for attending a baseball game. At least one of these individuals had the decency to walk away. This incident, in its way, reveals yet again that while racism may not be the cause of the anti-Bonds hatred, racism -- conscious or unconscious -- is undeniably a fueling factor. Incidents like these also suggest that there's good reason to believe that at the end of the day, Barry Bonds -- like many deeply flawed but iconic figures before him -- will prove to be greater than his detractors.
That wasn't mentioned in the post #17 to which I'd replied to in post #18, to which you're quoting. If that did happen, then I'd consider this very classless. However, I don't see what one person showing up in blackface (re dating someone of another race) would have anything to do with someone going to a baseball game dressed in this, as if to mock Bonds racially in a highly unveiled manner.

If taken to a racial extreme, someone showed up wearing a white hood over their head, does that open up the door for every single racial topic imaginable?

Please forgive me for my choice of examples (not all will), but I'm simply suggesting that simply because someone at a game makes a royal fool of themselves by attacking Bonds' race, whereas many others (some of whom are black) are against him because of the PED allegations, not his race. To me, his race is unimportant, but I'm not saying that this is the way to everyone else. I believe I can speak about my own thoughts.

When Curt Schilling did some political stumping for the current President of the USA, would that mean we could then discuss politics? Or which Democrat dates which Republican (like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver)?

Like I said, anybody can date whoever they feel like it, since I won't discuss it here. However, let's at least stick to the baseball aspect of things. I don't think that racism is big enough of an issue for Barry to fully consider, especially when he's most disliked mostly because of PED allegations. There have been many blacks who've been immensely popular, and his Godfather is very much amongst them. Please add Tony Gwynn, Griffey, Jr, amongst others.

While I'll admit that racism may be a subconscious reason why some dislike him, one which this person you've described at the stadium put up-close-and-center, I still believe it's not the primary reason people dislike him. His alleged PED usage and his overall attitude seem to be the primary reasons for people strongly disliking him, not his race.

[west coast orange and black]

elvis, i have seen the giants 28 times at dodger stadium since bonds arrived. i'm guessing that that is more frequent than many dodger fans who live in the more immediate area than my sf bay area home.

while true that dodger fans have always booed bonds, the past 3 nights were different. (this is my assessment from the confines of my home. i did not go to this series, but i'm seeing two in san diego). it's not so much that the fans wanted to see bonds homer - they wanted to witness history.
the red sox fans got it right when bonds homered in boston:
they clapped and booed as they gave a standing o.

dodger fans booing an intentional pass, i suspect, comes more from the disappointment of not getting to see bonds swing. i remember the final series of the '93 season. the place was packed on sunday - the season finale - and the fans were going absolutely nuts as the hated dodgers kept the giants from a 1-game playoff with the braves by thrashing the big men 12-1.

but i'll also remember what the buzz in the stands was before that final game: bonds' performance of the friday night game.

[west coast orange and black]

jwkfs: Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds lovers in this forum and the general public use the whole race thing to mask the roids issue.

i think that the steroid issue is a legitimate topic.
i also believe that racism, as it pertains to baseball, is also legitimate. separate, but legitimate.

the possibility of racism having an affect on baseball or, more specifically, bonds and 756, is real, and it ought to be able to be discussed. the best place to do that is the best baseball site, baseball-fever. the best forum in bb-f to discuss it is "current events".

[digglahhh]

I believe I can speak about my own thoughts.

Most people do. Yet, very few haven given even a cursory effort to digest the most basic research in regards to how we think. To say that you entirely understand your own thoughts is to say that you entirely understand the complex systems that influence them - as well as advanced neurology and the myriad mysteries of the workings of the subconscious mind.

People make statements like this to protect their own ego, but the truth is that we have very little understanding of why we think the way we do, or why we make the decisions or develop the preferences we have - and when our reasoning for decisions is tested, it is frequently unrelated to the decision we made. Read the Kenneth Clarke doll experiment, take the implicit association tests on the Harvard website. Read some of the experiments done with food consumption, setting, and presentation. Or, if you want to be less abstract, read some of the leading research that drives the advertising industry.

Simply put, that belief is, ironically, the most formidable obstacle to learning what is needed to begin to understand your own thoughts - most importantly, to distill what parts of them are actually your own...

[RubeBaker]

The only time we are really reminded that Bonds even has kids is when he uses them to fight back at the media and whine that they are getting hurt by the media's attack on him.

I don't see what's racist about this. Does a man dressing up as a woman make him a sexist? Probably not the best idea to change your skin color for purposes of a public statement, even for one not even remotely related to race. The statement was against Bonds and steroids. I am not denying that there is true, ugly racism out there, but this wasn't one of those cases.

[digglahhh]

The only time we are really reminded that Bonds even has kids is when he uses them to fight back at the media and whine that they are getting hurt by the media's attack on him.

This is true. We don't see much of any athlete's children though. Also, allegations that Bonds exploits his children don't have any bearing on whether the kids' grief is real. The fact that Bonds whines about it doesn't mean one can't feel for his children. Even the perspective that Bonds brought this upon himself is not a justification for his children's grief, only an explanation.

What if your kids thought the public hated you? Wouldn't that be hard to process, coming from an innocent child who has nothing but unconditional love for her daddy? I'm not saying that people should root for Bonds for the sake of his children. But, we have to acknowledge the fact that it is a crappy situation for the kid - Barry's actions not withstanding.

I don't see what's racist about this. Does a man dressing up as a woman make him a sexist?

I'm not convinced that this was a racist action. However, you can't deny that cross-dressing does not have the history that blackface does.

[bigtime39]

Two guys dress up to mock Bonds and steroids. Both are white. One goes as a doctor, the other as Bonds. You only have two choices here, if you're going for "accuracy": brown or green (Incredible Hulk puffed up on 'roids reference).
Would we feel the same way we do about these guys actions if instead, two black guys were mocking a 'roided up white player who was chasing Aaron's record?

Whether or not these guys were "correct" or "right" in their choice, what on earth was Bonds doing putting his daughter into a section where she would come into close contact...with a bunch of Dodger fans? Knowing how they feel about all Giants players, and especially Bonds. I have to call him either cynical or stupid for that move.

[bluezebra]

Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds haters in this forum and the general public use the whole roids thing to mask their own racism. Hammerin' Hank part 2.


Bonds bemoans taunts' impact on daughter

By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
August 2, 2007





LOS ANGELES – The 8-year-old girl stood a few feet from the man mocking her father. She seemed somewhat oblivious, and considering the situation's flammability, that was probably a for the best.

Because were she just a few years older, how would Aisha Bonds, daughter of Barry Bonds, have reacted to the Caucasian man who painted his face brown, wore matching latex skin over his head and stuffed a muscle suit beneath his authentic No. 25 jersey?

"You look funny," she said, according to the man who played the imposter, 22-year-old Scott Keighley Jr., and his father, 47-year-old Scott Keighley.

Good thing Bonds himself missed the pathetic minstrel show. Rage – roid or otherwise – surely would have been warranted.

ADVERTISEMENT



"It's no big deal," Keighley Jr. said Wednesday about the scene that had played out a night earlier. "We're just trying to have some fun."

En route, he and his father overstepped the line between fun and moronic. The elder Keighley sported a white lab coat, playing BALCO founder Victor Conte to his son's Bonds. They wore costumes for the first two games of the San Francisco Giants' series against the Los Angeles Dodgers, sitting in the third row behind home plate, which gave them postgame access to the area about 15 feet from the Giants' clubhouse entrance.

Aisha Bonds had waited for her father there among the Dodgers fans streaming out Tuesday.

"I walked away just so she wouldn't be able to put two and two together, just so she might think (Scott Jr.) is a fan," Keighley said. "I don't think kids can know that.

"I would never hurt a kid or say anything to a child in any way. We didn't want to hurt her feelings."

He didn't, it appeared. Innocence spared her.

And the moment reinforced that Hank Aaron wasn't the only one on a legendary home run chase to deal with racism, both tacit and overt.

This is nothing new for Bonds, and his return here – where he experiences the greatest loathing – triggered the kind of display that would curdle anyone's sensibilities.

In fact, Bonds said in the Giants' clubhouse before going 0 for 3 with an intentional walk Wednesday nightin a 6-4 loss to the Dodgers that sometime within the last year opposing fans' nonstop jeering made Aisha wonder why all these strangers were saying mean things about her dad.

"My daughter already had her breakdown," Bonds said. "She's over it."

The subject surfaced after the Dodger Stadium crowd had greeted each of Bonds' at-bats with increasing fury the first game of the series. Bonds sat at his locker before Wednesday's game, hand on chin, looking like he'd rather be with his pal Greg Anderson in prison than shadowed by the media in the cramped visitors' clubhouse.

As much as Bonds tried to play sunny – among his assessments: "I feel good," "I'm enjoying it" and "I'm having a good time" – his disposition said something entirely different, and his reaction to Dodgers fans confirmed it.

"The only thing that bothers you is when your little kids are around and you've got adults acting like children," Bonds said. "That's the only thing that bothers you. They pay their money. They're going to say what they want to say."

Now in his 22nd season, Bonds learned that long ago. Still, for the boos to echo so loudly when he's on the cusp of what commissioner Bud Selig, on hand for the festivities, called "the greatest record in American sports" is not exactly a warm fuzzy.

So Bonds slogs through it, stuck on 754 home runs, a full-time security guard on his hip for the journey, trying to steel himself after a July in which he hit .186, his worst month since April 1991. He said he doesn't see the cameras clicking during his at-bats, doesn't hear the voices that chant "Ste-roids, ste-roids," doesn't feel pressure to hit Nos. 755 and 756.

And if so, good for him. Because some of what he would see, hear and feel is anything but funny.


Jeff Passan is a national baseball writer for Yahoo! Sports. Send Jeff a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

Updated on Thursday, Aug 2, 2007 11:32 am, EDT

Email to a Friend | View Popular

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ar59d2AQJ34apTOirNbVvrYRvLYF?slug=jp-bonds080207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I consider Bonds a 'juiced-up' schmuck, not deserving of breaking Aaron's HR record. No matter what color his skin is.

Bob

[Elvis]

Is that why there are thousands of flashbulbs that go off every time he swings, Marcus?

Thousands of video cameras were taping the WTC disaster too. Does than mean that people were wanting that? It's called being an eyewitness to history and some wanting to record the moment if it happened.

I've talked to many of my Dodger fan friends this week, and to a T, they did NOT want to see Barroids hit a home rune in our park. How do you explain that? Now you can call me a liar, and not believe on "what I'm selling", but it's a fact.

[digglahhh]

Would we feel the same way we do about these guys actions if instead, two black guys were mocking a 'roided up white player who was chasing Aaron's record?

It's not the same thing! There is history involved. Would chucking a cotton bale at a white player be the same thing as waving one in front of black player?

Again, I'm not completely willing to ascribe racial intent to the theatrics in Dodger Stadium. I think it is quite possible the gentleman just didn't think about how his planned actions may be perceived by all parties. However, it is nothing short of ignorant to equate whites painting themselves black with blacks painting themselves white. Whites painted themselves black to exploit and shame the black race. Blacks painted themselves white at one point to, it was called "passing" and they did it to avoid discrimination and violence.

[sandlot]

That wasn't mentioned in the post #17 to which I'd replied to in post #18, to which you're quoting. If that did happen, then I'd consider this very classless. However, I don't see what one person showing up in blackface (re dating someone of another race) would have anything to do with someone going to a baseball game dressed in this, as if to mock Bonds racially in a highly unveiled manner.

If taken to a racial extreme, someone showed up wearing a white hood over their head, does that open up the door for every single racial topic imaginable?

Please forgive me for my choice of examples (not all will), but I'm simply suggesting that simply because someone at a game makes a royal fool of themselves by attacking Bonds' race, whereas many others (some of whom are black) are against him because of the PED allegations, not his race. To me, his race is unimportant, but I'm not saying that this is the way to everyone else. I believe I can speak about my own thoughts.

When Curt Schilling did some political stumping for the current President of the USA, would that mean we could then discuss politics? Or which Democrat dates which Republican (like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver)?

Like I said, anybody can date whoever they feel like it, since I won't discuss it here. However, let's at least stick to the baseball aspect of things. I don't think that racism is big enough of an issue for Barry to fully consider, especially when he's most disliked mostly because of PED allegations. There have been many blacks who've been immensely popular, and his Godfather is very much amongst them. Please add Tony Gwynn, Griffey, Jr, amongst others.

While I'll admit that racism may be a subconscious reason why some dislike him, one which this person you've described at the stadium put up-close-and-center, I still believe it's not the primary reason people dislike him. His alleged PED usage and his overall attitude seem to be the primary reasons for people strongly disliking him, not his race.We are generally in agreement. I think the person who mentioned the dating example was just trying to show how face-painting -- in this case, a white guy in brown(black)face -- could be interpreted quite negatively in certain circumstances, showing up at the ballyard or to meet a girl's parents being among them them. (I think showing up in a white pillowcase with eyeholes cut out could also invite a reaction that would be defensible in court. :))

I do not argue, and never would, that racism is the sole reason that most of those who dislike Bonds feel that way. The primary reason is his personality, the second is his alleged PEDs use, while the third -- and aggravating -- reason is race. (A fourth reason, I suppose, is that he's broken a record held by a man who's been the icon of baseball for the better part of its history, and is about to break the all-time record held by a man of enormous talent who was able to endure with dignity what others could not.)

When I say race is an aggravating element, it's because I suspect that if everything about Barry Bonds were the same, except his color, that the response to him would be qualitatively different overall. Those who are really upset by what they see as cheating would still be angered; those who dislike his personality still wouldn't like it, and those who dislike both his personality and his alleged cheating would still be wound up as well. But I firmly believe that the overall level of vitriol would palpably diminish if Bonds were white.

I say this becasue many other players have admitted or been found guilty of PEDs use, but none has generated the kind of venom that's constantly aimed at Bonds. In fact, I can't think of a single player in my decades of watching baseball who has received anything approaching the same kind of treatment, at least not since Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. Not guys who bet on baseball, not guys convicted of beating their wives or girlfriends, not guys repeatedly busted for fistfights in bars, not guys who doctored balls or corked their bats, not even guys convicted of armed robbery or other felonies carrying sentences of imprisonment -- nobody. Eventually, one has to ask the question: Why not?

Finally, I have to assume that there are a lot of African-American fans who are as upset by alleged cheating as anyone else, who don't like Bonds' personality, and who really love hank Aaron. So why aren't any of them dressing up as lab technicians or puffing themselves up like bobbleheads to express their feelings at the stadium? Are they simply more civilized? Why aren't the stands full of them pointing fingers or waving signs saying "Shame!"? Could it be that their disapproval of Bonds is tempered by an understanding of the forces that have helped to shape him into who and what he is? I don't know the answers to those questions, but they are questions worth asking.

[jwkfs]

jwkfs: Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds lovers in this forum and the general public use the whole race thing to mask the roids issue.

i think that the steroid issue is a legitimate topic.
i also believe that racism, as it pertains to baseball, is also legitimate. separate, but legitimate.

the possibility of racism having an affect on baseball or, more specifically, bonds and 756, is real, and it ought to be able to be discussed. the best place to do that is the best baseball site, baseball-fever. the best forum in bb-f to discuss it is "current events".

I agree with your post completely, but I think you missed my point.

There have been quite a few posts/topics lately questioning whether the steroids issue is a vehicle for people who are just plain racist. These posts come with smug race-baiting remarks like

Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds haters in this forum and the general public use the whole roids thing to mask their own racism.


Let me translate: Hey everyone out there who doesn't like Bonds...I just said you could be a racist, but I used the whole "makes me wonder" line to mask what I really said!

Where I'm from you don't even insinuate that someone is racist unless you're damn well ready to back it up.

What I'm getting at with:

Makes me wonder how many of the Bonds lovers in this forum and the general public use the whole race thing to mask the roids issue.

Is that I think that the issue of racism is nowhere near as big as the steroids issue or even the fact that Bonds is just a person who is really easy to dislike. But when someone cries "racism!" the whole topic shifts and everyone who doesn't like Bonds has to go on the defensive or be labled a racist.

Just my two cents.

[sandlot]

I don't see what's racist about this. Does a man dressing up as a woman make him a sexist? Probably not the best idea to change your skin color for purposes of a public statement, even for one not even remotely related to race. The statement was against Bonds and steroids. I am not denying that there is true, ugly racism out there, but this wasn't one of those cases.If these guys had gone to the costume shop and bought a rubber Barry Bonds mask, a giant syringe and a labcoat, I'd say it was a case of fair social comment and defensible, although making the display in front of a player's child certainly leaves a great deal of good sense, compassion and taste out of the equation. But, when a white person dons blackface face to taunt a black guy, he has to be either very ignorant, very stupid, very inconsiderate or know exactly what he's doing. I hope the stadium management has had a meaningful discussion with this pair about any future plans they might have to show up for games in mufti.

[Westlake]

Thousands of video cameras were taping the WTC disaster too. Does than mean that people were wanting that? It's called being an eyewitness to history and some wanting to record the moment if it happened.

I've talked to many of my Dodger fan friends this week, and to a T, they did NOT want to see Barroids hit a home rune in our park. How do you explain that? Now you can call me a liar, and not believe on "what I'm selling", but it's a fact.

Were those cameras there BEFORE the WTC disaster, waiting for it to happen? Two different things, obviously.

I'm not saying they want Barry to hit a HR, but that if it is going to happen, they are going to want to be there to see it, not buying nachos on the concourse.

[west coast orange and black]

rubebaker: The only time we are really reminded that Bonds even has kids is when he uses them to fight back at the media and whine that they are getting hurt by the media's attack on him.

sounds as though you missed the softball game on all-star sunday.
and, bonds frequently has one or more of his children at games - either in the stands (who can forget aisha's cute "pitch to my daddy" signs near the end of 2001?) or the dugout (nikolai has been a batboy regular since forever).

the media approach bonds (even with his kids in tow) a lot more often than bonds going to them.

[west coast orange and black]

elvis: ...to a T, they did NOT want to see Barroids hit a home rune in our park. How do you explain that?

well, of course your buds didn't want to see bonds hit a homerun.
but, at the same time, they did.

red sox fans didn't want bonds to hit a home run.
but when he did, they stood and applauded and were happy to witness it.
(actually, everyone was already standing and booing before bonds' home run.)

[Williamsburg2599]

red sox fans didn't want bonds to hit a home run.
but when he did, they stood and applauded and were happy to witness it.
(actually, everyone was already standing and booing before bonds' home run.)

They did?
http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w_id=578548&w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/tp/archive06/061707_sfnbos_bonds_hr_tp_350.wmv&pid=mlb_tp&gid=2007/06/17/sfnmlb-bosmlb-1&mid=200706172032573&cid=mlb&fid=mlb_tp400&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1
Maybe some people were, but a lot of people stand when a HR is hit anyways, and a lot of those people were still booing.

[west coast orange and black]

jwkfs: There have been quite a few posts/topics lately questioning whether the steroids issue is a vehicle for people who are just plain racist.

i don't buy into that. the two topics ought to be addressed separately.
they are difficult enough even when separated.

...when someone cries "racism!" the whole topic shifts and everyone who doesn't like Bonds has to go on the defensive or be labled a racist.

this is very unfortunate, at the very least. at its worst, it is very ugly.

[west coast orange and black]

wcoab: red sox fans didn't want bonds to hit a home run.
but when he did, they stood and applauded and were happy to witness it.
(actually, everyone was already standing and booing before bonds' home run.)

williamsburg2599: They did?
Maybe some people were, but a lot of people stand when a HR is hit anyways, and a lot of those people were still booing.

if your "they did?" is about the audience both applauding and booing while standing, the answer is yes.
i was at that game, and the majority of the fans were standing during bonds' ab before he popped it out. and many of those standing were booing. when the ball left the yard many of those standing and booing started to clap... while still booing.
maybe it's a red sox fan thing. i dunno. but it was fun.

[mwb]

People get juiced when Bonds comes to town because they are a witness to history, because Bonds is a villian or because some people like him.

I saw HR #713 in Philly last year. The fact that I remember it was #713 obviously is proof that it is a part of history. I still have the ticket stub. Of all the games I saw last season, I couldn't tell you what other players hit HRs & what number it was in their career. But it's history until it's proven that it was tainted. But in his other AB's, there were more cheers when he made an out than the AB when he hit a HR.

The emotions towards seeing a historic HR & celebrating an out are not mutually exclusive. The fact I witnessed #713 doesn't make me any less happy when he struck out.

[scotkeg]

I WAS the one who mocked Barry, and if you also read the story that ran in the AP, [a vital part that was left out in Passan's article] was that I brought in A three foot clown syringe. I gave the motion as if I was giving [Bonds}my son a shot in the buttocks on his first AB. I was after authentic not racismhttp://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-fangallery01-pg,1,3644759.photogallery?coll=la-headlines-sports&index=3 Moreover, if I take my little girl to an R rated movie & she hear's or see's something of adult content then who's should take responsibility. This Is Dodger stadium... not Disneyland. Scott Jr. was a 4 year varsity letterman in football [Righetti High] at 5'11" 175lbs that was a result of hard work & dedication. Not cheating! so all I can say is "Take your B.S. record to S.F." My conscience is clear
Scott Keighley

[PepperMartin]

The irony here is that Passan himself is a Bonds hater. His articles over the past two or three years have contained a large amount of anti-Bonds rhetoric. He appears to have toned it down lately, perhaps because of the high volume of verbal and written abuse Barry undergoes.

It's pretty hard not to feel any pity for Bonds, even if he deserves what he's getting.

[sandlot]

I WAS the one who mocked Barry, and if you also read the story that ran in the AP, [a vital part that was left out in Passan's article] was that I brought in A three foot clown syringe. I gave the motion as if I was giving [Bonds}my son a shot in the buttocks on his first AB. I was after authentic not racismhttp://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-fangallery01-pg,1,3644759.photogallery?coll=la-headlines-sports&index=3 Moreover, if I take my little girl to an R rated movie & she hear's or see's something of adult content then who's should take responsibility. This Is Dodger stadium... not Disneyland. Scott Jr. was a 4 year varsity letterman in football [Righetti High] at 5'11" 175lbs that was a result of hard work & dedication. Not cheating! so all I can say is "Take your B.S. record to S.F." My conscience is clear. Scott KeighleyThanks for this post. I appreciate the fact that you're being up front. It makes a difference.

I looked through all the pictures, and it appears that you did pretty much what I'd coincidentally described earlier -- had a lab coat, big inflatable syringe and a Bonds costume. I do wish that there had been one showing you guys from the front, as that would have helped clarify things even more. I am curious, though: Do you think that you could have done everything the same way, except for the face paint, and have made the same point just as effectively and without the confusion? I mean, if Bonds' skin color is not an issue, but his (alleged) cheating is, then the blackface is irrelevant to the point of the exercise, isn't it? Except for the coat, did you do something to make yourself more closely resemble Victor Conte? And what extra do you feel was gained by the authenticity? Again, I think fair social comment is at work here, but it is fair comment that also raises a fair question mark.

However, I think I have to disagree with you about Dodger Stadium being somehow an adult zone unlike Disneyland. Both are entertainment venues (as the big entertainment sign in the stadium makes plain), both are public and both are places that encourage families to come. I am hardly an old-fashioned person, but even I am at times offended by the language, gestures and conduct of some fans, who seem to feel that because they've purchased a ticket they can be as offensive as they wish with impunity. I would hope that those who criticize Bonds (and others) because they want to stand up for the integrity of the game, as it appears that you are, would also respect the integrity of the feelings of other people at the ballpark, especially when they are children.

Again, thanks for sharing this with us.

[Elvis]

Were those cameras there BEFORE the WTC disaster, waiting for it to happen? Two different things, obviously.


Germaine to the point of recording an historical moment that you would prefer not to be seeing--not a different thing, obviously.

[YankeeDJW]

It's pretty hard not to feel any pity for Bonds, even if he deserves what he's getting.

No, it's actually really easy not to pity Bond's. He's a multi-million dollar jerk who brought everything he is getting on himself, and he has yet to show any remorse or that he even really cares about his abhorrent legacy.

[Robin Yount]

I WAS the one who mocked Barry, and if you also read the story that ran in the AP, [a vital part that was left out in Passan's article] was that I brought in A three foot clown syringe. I gave the motion as if I was giving [Bonds}my son a shot in the buttocks on his first AB. I was after authentic not racismhttp://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-fangallery01-pg,1,3644759.photogallery?coll=la-headlines-sports&index=3 Moreover, if I take my little girl to an R rated movie & she hear's or see's something of adult content then who's should take responsibility. This Is Dodger stadium... not Disneyland. Scott Jr. was a 4 year varsity letterman in football [Righetti High] at 5'11" 175lbs that was a result of hard work & dedication. Not cheating! so all I can say is "Take your B.S. record to S.F." My conscience is clear
Scott Keighley


Oh so you're really the guy huh? LMAO, sure you are

At any rate, some are talking about why Bonds would have his daughter in the seats amidst all the riff raff; You people need to understand about the "dugout boxes" at Dodger Stadium. These seats are very limited in number and reserved for an exclusive group of fans with some kind of connection to the Dodger organization or MLB. I know these seats very well and was lucky to have access to them during an entire season some 20 years ago. How did I get this access? I had a special pass to free entry to any National league game anywhere in the country for that seasom (86). I was given this pass by my friend Dutch Rennert the umpire. Never in these seats did I witness anyone engaged in any theatrics such as this. This kind of nonsense is expected in the general seating area but not these exclusive dugout boxes. In short, this is not the place to wear costumes as no one in the stands will see u. TV cameras will not have a clear view of you either. So who will see you? People with baseball connections, family members, players. So what's the point? Bottom line is that these 2 were a couple of fools who probably offended all who were around them.

[Robin Yount]

2 years before I had access to those boxes, I was watching my hero Bonds at College games at USC when Bondsy was an ASU player. He's a class act. Of course McGwire was on my side at that time, yet another guy getting a bum rap from hall voters

[Williamsburg2599]

I don't know where to begin....:shrug:
Oh so you're really the guy huh? LMAO, sure you are

Why wouldn't that be the guy? Is it possible that he looked his name up on google and found it? In fact, when you google his name and baseball, this very thread comes up 2nd. And i guess HiddenGem isn't a real baseball player too, right?
At any rate, some are talking about why Bonds would have his daughter in the seats amidst all the riff raff; You people need to understand about the "dugout boxes" at Dodger Stadium. These seats are very limited in number and reserved for an exclusive group of fans with some kind of connection to the Dodger organization or MLB. I know these seats very well and was lucky to have access to them during an entire season some 20 years ago. How did I get this access? I had a special pass to free entry to any National league game anywhere in the country for that seasom (86). I was given this pass by my friend Dutch Rennert the umpire. Never in these seats did I witness anyone engaged in any theatrics such as this. This kind of nonsense is expected in the general seating area but not these exclusive dugout boxes.

So what, the "civilized" people in the box seats aren't as wild as those "animals" in the general seating? Looks like someone's doing a little stereotyping themselves.


In short, this is not the place to wear costumes as no one in the stands will see u. TV cameras will not have a clear view of you either.

Really? Because they constantly show Bond's family on the ESPN broadcasts.

So who will see you? People with baseball connections, family members, players. So what's the point? Bottom line is that these 2 were a couple of fools who probably offended all who were around them.
I'm pretty sure no one hired him do to this, so he wasn't putting on a show for the fans or for the TV cameras. I believe he was trying to send a message to Barry Bonds and/or baseball in general.

[scotkeg]

First off the seats behind home plate are what's called Dugout club. They can be purchased for about 600.00 a pair if you buy the whole season. I bought the seats from a guy on ebay before the season started.This was the middle of the season homestand with the Dodgers,Giants. Section 3 seat 5 & 6 row CC. Dugout club gives you access the a nice Wolgang Puck buffet, plus all the typical baseball food. This section was installed after Frank McCourt bought the team. I bought from this guy last year for the Giant games. The year before the seats were two rows away from visitors on deck circle. I guess he moved to an upgraded position this year. last year Barry got an ear full from about 6 feet away. Were not the typical Dodger fans full of vile swear words, I'd like to consider what I did as the tenth man, chatter if you will. Sure there were people in the Dugout club that I offended, Penny Marshall, Rob Reiner,Jan Carl and other Hollywood elitists. To bad! I can assure you that if I was a drinker, I would have drank free all night. I yelled @ Barry things like "You owe me money" " I wasn't the one who told" "Can I help you with you[arthritis] with that flair up" " It's only flaxseed oil"
Barry's a cheater. At least he didn't tie or break the record @ Dodger stadium. Oh buy the way, this is the most hated rivalry in baseball, we're Hatfields there McCoys. P.S. Put your money where your mouth is... If I'm Not the guy 1000.00 says that I am

[sandlot]

I haven't challenged you and took you at your word. No reason not to. So how about responding to the points raised in post #45?

[Elvis]

...This [Dugout Club] section was installed after Frank McCourt bought the team.

For the record, the Dugout club and seats were built after the 1999 season by the FOX ownership. The McCourts bought the team in 2004.

[digglahhh]

Scott,

Thanks for coming here and sharing.

Is it fair to say that the potential for ramifications of your blackface was something that you didn't consider when you did it?

Assuming it is, to what extent you can be "blamed" for that, is a complicated issue - highly individual. I doubt you intended to offend anybody on the basis of race, but it would behoove you to be contrite to those who took it that way - even if the misinterpretation was theirs. Apparently, you did something to invite those misinterpretations.

[Elvis]

You people need to understand about the "dugout boxes" at Dodger Stadium. These seats are very limited in number and reserved for an exclusive group of fans with some kind of connection to the Dodger organization or MLB. I know these seats very well and was lucky to have access to them during an entire season some 20 years ago. How did I get this access? I had a special pass to free entry to any National league game anywhere in the country for that seasom (86).

Dude, that section didn't even exist 20 years ago. :laugh Those seats are available to anyone who can afford them. You don't need connections.

[dl4060]

"What exactly do you find racist in this article?"

I was trying to figure that out too. Either the fact that the hecklers painted themselves black or the accusation they are racist has been created by RY to link racism to their taunting. It's a bit of a stretch.

I feel the same way. As I have said before, the vast majority of the ill will towards Barry is due to his behavior, not his race.

[scotkeg]

Look, I went there to give the cheater both barrels. It was only when I went there that Passan had said, that might be offensive. I guess if spot it you got it. But the AP reporter thought I hit it out of the ballpark. So... I think that there is a double standard here. If I'm Dave Chappel or the Wayans it's not racism, but caucasion male well... Dodger stadium is for family's, kinda, but not for the Giants or EPECIALLY Barry They HATE him!!! so for him to bring his daughter there?