Questions on Barry Bonds

[bryanac625]

1) Suppose Barry Bonds' name never came up in the question of performance-enhancing drugs- in other words, suppose he were the same person, same personality, same relationship with the media, yet he never took steroids or anything else. In light of those who did, how would you feel about him then?

OR

2) Suppose Bonds (the steroid Bonds) were about to set some all-time record in some other category: triples, RBIs, games played, grand slams, etc., but not the so-called "most hallowed record in sports" of home runs. Would you have the same feeling about him?

[freddy]

It makes so much sense, he abused the media for years now it's payback.
Have anyone really taken a look at the other players most are on it but because of his past, it seems to be payback time. Anyone ever think of this. Back when Hank was playing , did they have machines to test for performance enhancing drugs? Im not saying drugs were availible then:) but lets just assume they were.

[PepperMartin]

1) Suppose Barry Bonds' name never came up in the question of performance-enhancing drugs- in other words, suppose he were the same person, same personality, same relationship with the media, yet he never took steroids or anything else. In light of those who did, how would you feel about him then?

Ty Cobb was a bad teammate. Ted Williams had a sour relationship with the media. Mickey Mantle was a drunk. They are all remembered to history among the all-time great hitters. Bonds' personality and media relationship will also be forgotten to history, but the performance-enhancer allegations won't. So, he will never be unequivocally seen as one of the game's hallowed greats.

OR

2) Suppose Bonds (the steroid Bonds) were about to set some all-time record in some other category: triples, RBIs, games played, grand slams, etc., but not the so-called "most hallowed record in sports" of home runs. Would you have the same feeling about him?

He isn't any more tainted than other unrepentant steroid users like Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro etc. He should be viewed in the same light. But obviously when you're about to break the most hallowed record in sports, the controversy surrounds you a bit more!

And by the way, his breaking lesser known records isn't completely hypothetical. He is within 88 runs of Rickey Henderson's record, and 98 runs created of Babe Ruth's record. He could have a shot at both of these if he played next year, along with joining the 3000 hit club.

[bryanac625]

Ty Cobb was a bad teammate. Ted Williams had a sour relationship with the media. Mickey Mantle was a drunk. They are all remembered to history among the all-time great hitters. Bonds' personality and media relationship will also be forgotten to history, but the performance-enhancer allegations won't. So, he will never be unequivocally seen as one of the game's hallowed greats.

This doesn't really answer my original question- the question was if he were just a nasty guy who never did steroids, while other people had, what would you think about him then?

He isn't any more tainted than other unrepentant steroid users like Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro etc. He should be viewed in the same light. But obviously when you're about to break the most hallowed record in sports, the controversy surrounds you a bit more!


Qbviously. My thought was that if he were about to break some other lesser light record, like career RBIs or stolen bases, he would not be so reviled. It just makes me wonder what is really the problem at the bad intersection of Bonds, steroids, and the HR record.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Well, Dick Allen is still outside Cooperstown looking in. He may get selected some day, when everyone who remembers him is long gone.

There is a huge difference between Allen and Bonds: Allen was a rotten and divisive teammate, and that affects the performance of his team.

Barry is surly with the media, and that does NOT affect the onfield performance.

Who gives a flying f*** if some reporters get their panties in a twist? It has nothing to do with the sport of baseball. It only has to do with the egomaniacs who write and talk about it and think they are more important than the game on the field.

Just like Max Mercy. The fan doesn't care if Roy Hobbs is rude to Max Mercy, so long as he helps the team win the game. And Max Mercy is within his rights to write anything he wants about what a sourpuss Hobbs is. If that changes the opinion a fan has of Hobbs, then that fan is worried about the wrong thing.

My opinion of Barry is not, "he is rude to reporters and I should believe everything negative they say about him." Rather, it is, "He has performed great things on the field to help his team score runs and win games, and these same reporters voted him MVP SEVEN times. He came in second two other times. In fact, these reporters gave Barry more MVP votes in his career than any other player in baseball history."

That's the kind of coverage I'm talking about.

[maximum jack]

There is a huge difference between Allen and Bonds: Allen was a rotten and divisive teammate, and that affects the performance of his team.

Barry is surly with the media, and that does NOT affect the onfield performance.


While I don't think Bonds is as divisive as Allen, he's never exactly been embraced by his teamates either.

[chrispw1]

Actually, since you mentioned Rickey Henderson's runs scored record, actually you could say that record is somewhat tainted by steroid use since even if he never used, quite a few of those runs scored were driven in by Caminiti in San Diego, Canseco and the asumed user McGwire in Oakland since if their offensive stats are tainted the runs it lead to would be as well.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Actually, since you mentioned Rickey Henderson's runs scored record, actually you could say that record is somewhat tainted by steroid use since even if he never used, quite a few of those runs scored were driven in by Caminiti in San Diego, Canseco and the asumed user McGwire in Oakland since if their offensive stats are tainted the runs it lead to would be as well.

Precisely.