How to Obtain Dual Citizenship?

[adamsowell]

I would like to obtain Dual Citizenship for a country in Europe so that I can increase my value as an american/international baseball player and not take up a foriegn player spot on a european team's roster. Also would like to be eligible for that country's national team.

I was born in the USA and so were both of my parents.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on what I can try to do to obtain this?

any advice or comments are apprecaited.

--Adam

[Celtic Mariner]

Central European nations seem to have less strict laws on this, the most notable being Belgium, but even so, residence of 2-3 years is required I believe, it comes up a fair bit in soccer with non-EU players owned by clubs in stricter nations being 'loaned' out. I'm afraid I don't have any concrete information at all, since almost all of my knowledge comes from sport (Rather sad to be honest), though it does seem that Britain is fairly harsh on naturalisation laws.

EDIT: I see you're in Sweden, the rules there are fairly stringent, amounting to five years residency required, however there is a thing called a limited residence permit, which may or may not be sufficient for national team qualification. Pretty sure that when you get any EU citizenship you're set as far as not taking up a foreign slot no matter what country you then go on to play in, I've never heard of distinguishing between 'native' and EU citizenship as far as such things are concerned.

[adamsowell]

From what I heard, i believe you have to show 3 years of residence to be eligible to play on the swedish national team

i think i have some german great great grandparents or something, maybe i could get citizenship there, i'm racking my brain and looking all around for information on the net.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I would talk to INS, but it's not that hard to get.

[Jareb]

Having a great great grandparent or something like that from Germany won't do it. Germany doesn't do citizenship by inheritance unless you have a German parent.

Best bet is either having an Irish or Spanish grandparent - then it's possible.

Good luck

[adamsowell]

Having a great great grandparent or something like that from Germany won't do it. Germany doesn't do citizenship by inheritance unless you have a German parent.

Best bet is either having an Irish or Spanish grandparent - then it's possible.

Good luck

If you have a grandparent that was born to a german "citizen" then you may apply for german citizenship yourself.

[SDL]

I have dual-citizenship with The Netherlands. My father was from there and I have it.

There are at least two Dutch players on their National team with dual-citizenship. Michael Duursma whose mother is American and Leon Boyd whose father is Canadian

[SDL]

I've read that if elected Mike Huckabee, if elected, will try to outlaw dual-citizenship in the US. This will affect me personally, as well as many baseball layers who play in International tournaments

[DownUnderDodger]

I've read that if elected Mike Huckabee, if elected, will try to outlaw dual-citizenship in the US. This will affect me personally, as well as many baseball layers who play in International tournaments

Please don't vote for Huckabee then .:sigh: .....I want dual citizenship when I finally move to USA in a couple of years!! Up until reading that I was somewhat of a Huckabee fan!! :rolleyes:

[Westlake]

I've read that if elected Mike Huckabee, if elected, will try to outlaw dual-citizenship in the US. This will affect me personally, as well as many baseball layers who play in International tournaments

I don't think you have to worry about that. His campaign and candidacy are complete jokes.

[jalbright]

I understand why Mr. Huckabee's position came up, but, please, this forum is for baseball only, and not politics. If there is any more of that kind of political discussion, I'm going to have to start editing/deleting posts in this thread and possibly hand out warnings to those who continue that line of discussion.

Jim Albright

[Shootmaster_44]

How far back do most European countries go as far as inherited citizenship? My great-grandparents were British citizens on my mom's side and Ukrainian citizens on my dad's side. Would I qualify for the automatic inherited citizenship or is that too far removed? Neither of which would qualify me to play international baseball for either country as I doubt I am good enough for either nation.

I often wish I could easily get a Pacific nation's citizenship. It would be kind of cool to pull a Freddy the fish (from the 2000 Sydney Olympic swimming) and be an Olympian even if you aren't all that good at your sport. In the meantime, I can hope one day American football is added to the Olympics and I can play for Team Canada.

[Paula59]

In Germany the only chance you have is to live for 3 years regular, employed, secured and everything + 2 years married to a german. In this time you have to improve your language skills and test them.
I don´t know exactly about loosing your first citizenship but Germany tries that you can only keep one citizenship.

[stejay]

I have a dual passport.
I was born in the USA, as were my parents, but moved to the UK in 2000, and returned in 2005, so I still posess a dual passport

[SDL]

How far back do most European countries go as far as inherited citizenship? My great-grandparents were British citizens on my mom's side and Ukrainian citizens on my dad's side. Would I qualify for the automatic inherited citizenship or is that too far removed? Neither of which would qualify me to play international baseball for either country as I doubt I am good enough for either nation.

I often wish I could easily get a Pacific nation's citizenship. It would be kind of cool to pull a Freddy the fish (from the 2000 Sydney Olympic swimming) and be an Olympian even if you aren't all that good at your sport. In the meantime, I can hope one day American football is added to the Olympics and I can play for Team Canada.

In my case, my father was from The Netherlands..my mother was first-generation American (her parents were from Russia and The Ukraine), so I have the dual-citizenship from my dad. Since I'm Jewish, I could also get Israeli citizenship via The Law Of Return (watch a lot of Jewish players from the US use that to play for Israel if they are in the next WBC), but two ctizenships are enough for me, thank YOU :)

[DownUnderDodger]

Sorry about the "tongue in cheek" political comment jalbright :blush:

A couple of months ago there was an article about an Aussie cricketer (Shane Warne) who was supposedly considering using his distant German heritage to try get some sort of exclusion from foreign status in England (ie making him a non-Aussie so he can play for a County team in England without being classed as a foreigner). I think it was all "paper-talk" but it made me wonder, brieflly, at the time what sort of rules there are in relation to European citizenship. How German citizenship would have helped him in UK is beyond me. Again I comment that I believe this was all "paper-talk" (media hype), so it may have been a story with no substance.

[Paula59]

Sorry about the "tongue in cheek" political comment jalbright :blush:

A couple of months ago there was an article about an Aussie cricketer (Shane Warne) who was supposedly considering using his distant German heritage to try get some sort of exclusion from foreign status in England (ie making him a non-Aussie so he can play for a County team in England without being classed as a foreigner). I think it was all "paper-talk" but it made me wonder, brieflly, at the time what sort of rules there are in relation to European citizenship. How German citizenship would have helped him in UK is beyond me. Again I comment that I believe this was all "paper-talk" (media hype), so it may have been a story with no substance.


I don´t know exactly about what was the deal there but here in europe we have a special rule for foreigners in sport.
If you have citizenship of an european country you can due to the rules of the european union live and work where ever you want in the union.
For example if you are British and you are under pro-contract with a baseball team in Germany and pay taxes, national insurance and everything else in Germany you don`t count as an foreigner in the championship games because european inhabitants have all the freedoms in all of europe. The sport typical decision this is based on the "Bosman judgment

[jalbright]

Sorry about the "tongue in cheek" political comment jalbright :blush:.

Really, if it weren't for the risk somebody would get into that angle in a serious way, it wouldn't bother me. Unfortunately, it only takes a comment like that plus one person who wants to expound on the topic to get us well away from baseball. So, I let it stand and made my position known to deter anyone who wants to talk politics. Seems to have worked, and, if so, I'm satisfied with that.

[spark240]

I just made a comment about dual citizenship in another thread... apologies for redundancy, but my understanding is that the US already does not recognize any multiple citizenships (if you hold US citizenship, you are a US citizen, period)... this is not the same as outlawing multiple citizenship, meaning that it would be a criminal act for a US citizen to hold or apply for citizenship elsewhere (as recognized by that nation).

I knew someone, years ago, who held a dual citizenship, and this was his explanation of the situation. If this is mistaken, or no longer true, I'd be interested in the relevant link.

[Mike_Piazza]

Here a nice article about italian citizenship

Dual Citizenship in Italian Baseball - an in-depth explanation

News - Italian Baseball Leagues



by
Riccardo Schiroli
FIBS Communications manager


The foreign born players who represent Italy in international baseball are in most of the cases Italian citizens from birth. Only in rare occasions (Carlos GUZMAN, born in Guatemala, in the 1970ies; David SHELDON and Daniel NEWMAN, born in the US, in the 1990ies; Laidell CHAPELLI, born in Cuba, in 2007) we saw naturalized players represent Italy in international baseball.


The Italian law gives citizenship on the base of descent and states very clearly that “anyone who is born from an Italian parent is an Italian citizen”. The law also states that “There is no limit to generations”, thus meaning that someone whose great grandfather emigrated and never gave up his citizenship has the right to claim his Italian citizenship simply presenting the appropriate paperwork to an Italian Consulate. The process is know as “citizenship recognition” and can happen at any stage in life. At the end of the process, the person is recognized an “Italian citizen from birth”. It is pretty obvious that the case is quite different from naturalization, even if the effects are practically the same.


The law is pretty old (1912) and was written when Italy was a land of emigrants and not one of the G8 countries, but the Italian Parliament has never showed the intention of changing its basics, even though the law went through massive modifications through the years.


The topic is discussed. Some find it unfair that the child of immigrants who is born in Italy does not have the right to claim his Italian citizenship before 10 years of residence in the country where he/she was born. But this is the law and only a Parliament elected in Democracy can change it.


The Italian law on citizenship does not require any knowledge of the Italian Language to have citizenship recognized. The Dutch law in this sense is less ‘liberal’, but the Italian Constitution states clearly that the land will give freedom of “language and religion” to anybody. In fact, in Italy there are regions where German is the mother language (Alto Adige, Sued Tirol in German) and others where the first language is French (a part of Valle d’Aosta).


The USA, as all of the American countries, have a citizenship law based on place of birth. “Anyone who is born on the US territory is a US citizen”.


This is one of the reasons why both countries (Italy and the US…but it’s the same between Italy and Argentina, Italy and Venezuela, Italy and the Dominican Republic) recognize “dual citizenship”. In short, this means that for Italian authorities the “dual citizen” has the privilege and the duties of every other Italian citizen and for the US authorities he has the privileges and duties of any other US citizen.


The history of Italian sport has been written also by these descendants of Italian immigrants. In the 1930ies Italy won two soccer World Cup also thanks to players like Raimundo ORSI, a son of immigrants born in Argentina. The 2006 Italian squad that won the forth World title for Italy had a regular starter in Mauro CAMORANESI, born in Tandil (Argentina).


When ORSI played for Italy in 1934, the fascist regime (that ruled the country from 1922 to 1943 and was an example of brutal sciovinism, as 1938 racial laws prove) did not accept dual citizenship and created the status of “oriundo”, a term that comes from the old Latin language and means “descendant”. But nowadays the status of “oriundo” does not have any sense, since dual citizenship is recognized and there are only two categories for the Republic of Italy: Italians and foreigners. Well, to be honest three: Italian, other EU citizens and foreigners. But this distinction does not involve citizenship, since any country in the EU is a ’sovereign country’.


In the Italian Baseball League in fact, following a directive of the Olympic Committee, the Federation has created the status of the “Player representing the Italian School of Baseball”.


That is to say someone who has Italian citizenship and has developed as a player in the FIBS youth program or has played at least 6 years in the League. Each team must have 5 players of these status in the line up for each game, including game 3 pitchers of each series. Foreign-born Italians who have not played for 6 seasons do not have the status and cannot pitch in game 3.


Giovanni CARRARA, the former Big Leaguer who represented Italy in the 2007 Euros, had never completed his “citizenship recognition process” (while his brother and sister had) before coming to Italy because his father Ettore (born in a small town near Bergamo, in the north of the country) had given up his citizenship before his birth. Here in Italy Giovanni discovered that his mom (born JIMENEZ in Venezuela, that’s why Giovanni’s full name as a Venezuelan citizen is Giovanni CARRARA JIMENEZ; his full name as an Italian citizen is Giovanni CARRARA, period) had become an Italian citizen (thanks to a part of the law that has been abrogated in the 1980ies) marrying his father before Giovanni was born and so he had the right to go through the process. CARRARA played the whole season as an import pitcher for Nettuno, but his birth certificate now states “Italian citizenship from birth”.


The debate in Italy about these players has been hot for years.


While it may be true that some of them do go through the paperwork only to extend their baseball careers, it is also obvious that their decision cannot be questioned and belongs only to them. The debate, of course, should never forget what the law of the Republic of Italy says.


The Italian Federation, with its Academy, with the rule protecting the players “Product of the Italian School of Baseball” and (why not?) winning the 2007 Under 18 European Championship, has already showed that there’s no addiction in Italy to foreign born baseball players and that Team Italy’s coaches only try to name the best teams possible.

[sandlot]

I just made a comment about dual citizenship in another thread... apologies for redundancy, but my understanding is that the US already does not recognize any multiple citizenships (if you hold US citizenship, you are a US citizen, period)... this is not the same as outlawing multiple citizenship, meaning that it would be a criminal act for a US citizen to hold or apply for citizenship elsewhere (as recognized by that nation).

I knew someone, years ago, who held a dual citizenship, and this was his explanation of the situation. If this is mistaken, or no longer true, I'd be interested in the relevant link.This is a common misunderstanding. If you are a citizen of the US, you cannot be a citizen of another country if that country does not recognize dual citizenship. You have to decide. BUT if the other country does recognize dual citizenship, and will provide you with a passport without requiring you to renounce US citizenship, then as far as the US is concerned your second passport is essentially only a travel document. The US figures, logically enough, that the other nation is a sovereign state and can give passports to whomever it wants. Ireland is an example of a nation that will grant citizenship to people who have familial connections to the country and doesn't require anyone to renounce whatever existing citizenship that they may possess (although in the past couple of years it has tightened the rules).

However, if you are a citizen of country X and want to become a US citizen, you must give up that first nationality because the US doesn't recognize dual citizenship. In short, if you are already an American and want a second passport, it's possible. If you want to become an American, that's something else.

[SDL]

This is a common misunderstanding. If you are a citizen of the US, you cannot be a citizen of another country if that country does not recognize dual citizenship. You have to decide. BUT if the other country does recognize dual citizenship, and will provide you with a passport without requiring you to renounce US citizenship, then as far as the US is concerned your second passport is essentially only a travel document. The US figures, logically enough, that the other nation is a sovereign state and can give passports to whomever it wants. Ireland is an example of a nation that will grant citizenship to people who have familial connections to the country and doesn't require anyone to renounce whatever existing citizenship that they may possess (although in the past couple of years it has tightened the rules).

However, if you are a citizen of country X and want to become a US citizen, you must give up that first nationality because the US doesn't recognize dual citizenship. In short, if you are already an American and want a second passport, it's possible. If you want to become an American, that's something else.

I'm American-born and have dual-citizenship with the Netherlands via my father who was from there. Obviously The Netherlands does recognize it :)

I also know somebody who just got his Irish citizenship, although he's American born like I am. I'm not sure how far back his ancestry goes. but my wife is Irish and I believe it;s her great-grandfather who came over from The Old Sod, so I think she can get a irish passport of she so desires. My late father in law did actually go to Ireland to trace roots years ago.

[Shootmaster_44]

I'm American-born and have dual-citizenship with the Netherlands via my father who was from there. Obviously The Netherlands does recognize it :)

I also know somebody who just got his Irish citizenship, although he's American born like I am. I'm not sure how far back his ancestry goes. but my wife is Irish and I believe it;s her great-grandfather who came over from The Old Sod, so I think she can get a irish passport of she so desires. My late father in law did actually go to Ireland to trace roots years ago.

Just Googled Irish Citizenship and it has to be your grandparents or parents who were Irish citizens. For great-grandparents they had to be Irish citizens before your birth. Sadly for me I am two generations removed from Irish citizenship. Though I'm unsure what my ancestors would be considered since they left Ireland before Ireland was independent. It would be so much easier to travel if I could have an Irish passport since its automatically an EU passport. So it would make travel in Europe so much easier.

[ShawnC]

I'm American-born and have dual-citizenship with the Netherlands via my father who was from there. Obviously The Netherlands does recognize it.

Actually, I don't think the Netherlands does recognize dual citizenship. You got your Dutch citizenship through your father and the term would be a Dutch "citizen by descent". Other people who wish to naturalize in the Netherlands and become "naturalized citizens" are required to renounce their original citizenship I think (I'm sure I saw it on a Dutch immigration website but would have to double-check). As far as Dutch law is concerned (and the same goes for many countries which pass on citizenship through the parents), you were a Dutch citizen from birth and the American citizenship is inconsequential (the same goes for the American law with regards to your American citizenship and your birthright Dutch nationality being inconsequential as far as the American law is concerned) - this is the only type of dual citizenship which would be commonly tolerated by countries which don't recognize dual citizenship.



Just Googled Irish Citizenship and it has to be your grandparents or parents who were Irish citizens. For great-grandparents they had to be Irish citizens before your birth. Sadly for me I am two generations removed from Irish citizenship. Though I'm unsure what my ancestors would be considered since they left Ireland before Ireland was independent. It would be so much easier to travel if I could have an Irish passport since its automatically an EU passport. So it would make travel in Europe so much easier.

Your ancestors would have been considered as British subjects at the time. Before Ireland became independent (and before the 1940s) there wasn't any "citizenship" in the UK or its colonies (or in the Dominions either). There were only British subjects (some with the right to abode in the UK due to a strong connection with the UK). However, your ancestors may have been Irish citizens according to Irish law after independence even if they weren't in Ireland. It would require your parents to register first (with the Foreign Births Register) as Irish citizens I believe and then for you to register. You should check it out. Having great-grandparents who were Irish citizens before one's birth would be rare I'd imagine since the great grandparents would probably be around 60-90 years old at the time of the persons birth (and more likely they would be closer to 90 than to 60).

[jalbright]

Let's get away from the legal stuff to baseball, please.

[ozziethesaint]

It's not too hard to obtain dual citizenship for Italy. Took my brother about 4 months to get it all done with the with help of his team back in the winter of 05-06

[jalbright]

You're not listening--the next post which is not about baseball in this thread will be deleted, and I promise to be even less understanding if anyone does it repeatedly!

[ozziethesaint]

You're not listening--the next post which is not about baseball in this thread will be deleted, and I promise to be even less understanding if anyone does it repeatedly!

Was this aimed at me? Because my comment was 100% baseball related since he got dual citizenship to play for Godo in the A1 series

[jalbright]

Was this aimed at me? Because my comment was 100% baseball related since he got dual citizenship to play for Godo in the A1 series

In part, but only in part--and it wouldn't have been aimed at you at all had you specified such a connection in your post before mine, though it's still stretching a bit to really make that a baseball-related post other than a continuation of the dual citizenship primer. It is that latter part which I am no longer going to be very tolerant of.

[sandlot]

Let's get away from the legal stuff to baseball, please.With respect, I think you're being overly strict, jalbright. This thread is in response to the question of obtaining dual citizenship for the purpose of playing baseball. It's by definition going to be "legal," which cannot be unacceptable in a baseball forum or else we'd have to eliminate a huge amount of stuff about contracts, lawsuits, trials, investigations, and on and on, that's all over BF. (BTW, as you may know, one of the classic studies on the development of the infield fly rule was written as a thesis for a law degee.) This exchange on citizenship rules is being kept in a single thread, it's a focused discussion that's civil in tone, and it's of considerable interest and importance to those involved in it. If it ain't broke, why try to fix it?

[jalbright]

Because this site is for baseball only. If I make an exception for this thread, I'll be faced with arguments for 20 more where folks can make their argument for their pet thread--and that would beget more, and so on. The line is drawn here, whether you like it or not. Also, this is not my policy decision, but that of the Webmaster, that I am enforcing. Sorry.