Where Is Minoso's HOF Support From The Hispanic Community

[philliesfiend55]

I wonder if Cubano 100% or some other Hispanic posters can tell me why in the 2006 Negro Leagues election and the Veterans committee elections (last held in Feb. '07) the Hispanic community didn't throw more support behind the election of Minnie Minoso to the Hall Of Fame?
Besides being an excellent ballplayer (seven-time American League and two-time Negro leagues All-Star) he was a racial and ethnic trailblazer. As the first black in the majors from Latin America and first non-American born black didn't he serve a function for his community that was something akin to Jackie Robinson's role for the American-born black player? Didn't he open a lot of doors for Latinos of color and isn't his impact still being felt today, as now black latinos now greatly outnumber american blacks in the major leagues.?
Couldn't a letter writing campaign to Hall Of Fame voters and an organized effort to present the view that Minoso deserves to be a Hall Of Famer by using radio, television and other media have proved effective in remeinding voters how great a career Minoso had and how far reaching his impact was?
At the time of the Negro League election in 2006 the only kind of a movement going on among Hispanic fan groups was to get Roberto Clemente's number retired by all teams. While I don't diminish the goals of that effort, shouldn't at least as an aggressive an effort have been made by Latinos and other like-minded fans to get Minoso elected to the Hall Of Fame. (With the death of Buck O'Neill, Minoso is now the only living candidate who was on that '06 Negro Leagues Hall Of Fame ballot).
What must really hurt Minnie about not making the Hall Of Fame to this point is that he seems to have been to have been forgotten and ignored by his own people and community.

Note: (I placed this in the International Baseball category because I hoped to get the attention and reaction of some hispanic posters that often post in this category. It might just have easily been placed in the Hall Of Fame threads).

philliesfiend55

[jalbright]

I wonder if Cubano 100% or some other Hispanic posters can tell me why in the 2006 Negro Leagues election and the Veterans committee elections (last held in Feb. '07) the Hispanic community didn't throw more support behind the election of Minnie Minoso to the Hall Of Fame?
Besides being an excellent ballplayer (seven-time American League and two-time Negro leagues All-Star) he was a racial and ethnic trailblazer. As the first black in the majors from Latin America and first non-American born black didn't he serve a function for his community that was something akin to Jackie Robinson's role for the American-born black player? Didn't he open a lot of doors for Latinos of color and isn't his impact still being felt today, as now black latinos now greatly outnumber american blacks in the major leagues.?
Couldn't a letter writing campaign to Hall Of Fame voters and an organized effort to present the view that Minoso deserves to be a Hall Of Famer by using radio, television and other media have proved effective in remeinding voters how great a career Minoso had and how far reaching his impact was?
At the time of the Negro League election in 2006 the only kind of a movement going on among Hispanic fan groups was to get Roberto Clemente's number retired by all teams. While I don't diminish the goals of that effort, shouldn't at least as an aggressive an effort have been made by Latinos and other like-minded fans to get Minoso elected to the Hall Of Fame. (With the death of Buck O'Neill, Minoso is now the only living candidate who was on that '06 Negro Leagues Hall Of Fame ballot).
What must really hurt Minnie about not making the Hall Of Fame to this point is that he seems to have been to have been forgotten and ignored by his own people and community.

Note: (I placed this in the International Baseball category because I hoped to get the attention and reaction of some hispanic posters that often post in this category. It might just have easily been placed in the Hall Of Fame threads).

philliesfiend55

Let me start by saying I agree Minoso belongs. That said, please understand that the committee which voted on Minoso was focused on the Negro Leagues, not hispanics. I'm not overly fond of ethnic politics in deciding who should be in the Hall, either. There were blacks and/or Hispanics before and after Minoso. He's not terribly special in that single regard.

Most of all, though, philsfiend, you seem to think Cooperstown gives a darn about campaigns like this. They don't. The Hall is a small, tight knit group that tends to be rather insular in its outlook. It took them a long time of getting beaten up over supporting the racism of the past to knuckle under to allow Negro Leaguers to be represented. If Minoso's Negro League years are considered (as they should), his case becomes stronger. The current Veteran's Committee is made up of HOFers, and is surprisingly ignorant of the history of the game before the sixties. Furthermore, those voters have a vested interest in keeping the Hall an exclusive club, so they're not going to induct anyone who they don't see as clearly belonging. Heck, with all Buck O'Neil did for the game, he couldn't get in during his long and fruitful life. Minoso was a better player, I agree, but in overall impact, he falls behind Buck.

So I think calling out Hispanic people on their support of Minoso is misguided at best (and really, if you want their support, is this the best way to do it?). It's the Hall which has failed in the case of Minoso, and it's the Hall which has to decide to correct that failure.

Jim Albright

[bluezebra]

I saw Minnie play at Comiskey Park. He was an exciting player. I believe his stats speak for themselves. He belongs. And this is from a Cubs fan.

Bob

[J.P]

I started a thread here a while back, where I was wondering why Minnie was out but Monte Irvin was in; why Luis Tiant was out but Catfish Hunter, Jim Bunning, Don Drysdale, and Ferguson Jenkins were in; why David Concepcion and Bert Campaneris were out, but Phil Rizzuto and Pee Wee Reese were in...................the main reasons given by other posters was that their lack of interaction with the press(due to their limited english) hurt them, and also that sometimes voters make mistakes and put in players who shouldnt be in, and that didnt mean other mistakes should be put in; I wondered then, why was it so hard for a hispanic with borderline stats to become a "mistake", and so easy for their American counterparts.......

[Captain Cold Nose]

I started a thread here a while back, where I was wondering why Minnie was out but Monte Irvin was in; why Luis Tiant was out but Catfish Hunter, Jim Bunning, Don Drysdale, and Ferguson Jenkins were in; why David Concepcion and Bert Campaneris were out, but Phil Rizzuto and Pee Wee Reese were in...................the main reasons given by other posters was that their lack of interaction with the press(due to their limited english) hurt them, and also that sometimes voters make mistakes and put in players who shouldnt be in, and that didnt mean other mistakes should be put in; I wondered then, why was it so hard for a hispanic with borderline stats to become a "mistake", and so easy for their American counterparts.......

You think Jenkins was borderline? His counting stats, the ones the writers really look at, well-exceeded Tiant's. As for the others, he certainly is on par, if not better.

The VC, a small crony committee for both elections, voted in both Reese and Rizzuto. Concepcion and Camapaneris did not have that luxury, so it's a little different there. Another comparison is Kirby Puckett was first-ballot, but Tony Oliva, a much-feared hitter in his day, languished for years on the ballot, drawing modest support. He still draws that same level of support from the present VC, many of whom are contemporaries.

[Brian McKenna]

The VC needsto be overhauled. Since when did you ever see a slew of ballplayers that were a true historians of the game outside his own interaction and observations.

How many of them even remember their own history correctly?

How many of them detested the inclusion of Jackie Robinson but swear they were all for him? How many of them swear today that they never even noticed that the black players didn't eat with them or stay with them at times? My only point here is that their memories are selective and full of nearly-100% flowery rhetoric about themselves and others - this is the antithesis of what a qualified voter should be.

[philliesfiend55]

to Jim Albright:
I see the kind of insular situation that you mentioned as one of the Veterans Committee's biggest problems. They are not open to outside (fan) opinions, but think they know it all. Probably only a few do any statistical or other research and most votes are strictly "off the top of their heads".
In this debate: I've always said hat Minoso was a star on three levels: In his native, Cuba, in the Negro Leagues, and in the major leagues. However the Negro Leagues committee does not seem to want to consider what he did in Cuba before he got to the Negro Leagues or what he accomplished later in the big leagues. or his impact on future generations of Latino players, and the Veteran's Committee does not want to consider what he did before he got to the major leagues, or that it was racism that delayed his entry to the major leagues until his late 20's, which to me is a very valid point that they should not have ignored.
If Minoso had been able to aspire to the major leagues at an early age, with no racial barrier, been signed to an organization at 17 or 18 years of age and gotten to the majors at 20 or 21 what would his final career numbers have been, if his performance from age 28 had remained the same.
1500 RBI, 300 home runs, 400 stolen bases and most importanly, over 3,000 hits would all have been strong possibilites. In light of the fact that he had 1960 hits from age 28 on, he might very well have enjoyed some very good seasons in his early and middle 20's and reached 3,000 hits. This milestone was even more of a lock for, and certain ticket to the Hall Of Fame back during Minoso's playing days than it is today.
Dennis Orlandini (philliesfiend55)

[Cubano100%]

I am not the most qualify to write about who belongs in the HOF. For what I have read, he belongs in it. I think the voters do not take into account the accomplisment Minoso achieved in the negro and big leagues altogether.


Elect him after he dies. That would be great.

[philliesfiend55]

"Elect him after he dies. That would be great". - Cubano 100%

Minoso's 84, turning 85 in November, so Cubano, there isn't a great deal of time left for him, but I still hold out a slight ray of hope that he can be elected in his lifetime and not after he's gone, like his teammate Nellie Fox.

Election in your lifetime is a cause for celebration.
Election after your death is only your fans' and family's consolation.

-philliesfiend55-

[Brian McKenna]

I saw a discussion this weekend at the HOF between third basemen - Brooks, Nettles, Brett and Schmidt. Brett talked about not even knowing who the last man to hit .400 was when he was going after the mark in 1980. And, it didn't sound like he has been a student of baseball history since then.

I also saw that the VC was redone but the living HOF are still the majority of the voters. Hard for me to see how it will work and a fair shake is given to some that might need a second look.

If Dick Williams was a tough man, how many living HOF are going to vote for him?

How will this work in the future when all living HOFers are filthy rich and have spend their life's pursuits in other way than talking the game and its history which they did in bygone eras?

[Cubano100%]

"Elect him after he dies. That would be great". - Cubano 100%

Minoso's 84, turning 85 in November, so Cubano, there isn't a great deal of time left for him, but I still hold out a slight ray of hope that he can be elected in his lifetime and not after he's gone, like his teammate Nellie Fox.

Election in your lifetime is a cause for celebration.
Election after your death is only your fans' and family's consolation.

-philliesfiend55-

That was me being sarcastic.