umpire attitude

[Canuck]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this post, but I need to let off a little bit of steam. Over the past couple years I have periodically read the umpires forum at www.officiating.com. What I have observed from this site is a group of umpires with a very poor attitude toward the game of baseball as a whole. As a professional educator, such attitudes really concern me. Is knowledge of the rules of baseball all that is required to umpire? What about skills on managing people? Here in Canada I have not come across umps like this, but perhaps I have just been lucky.

Many thread have upset me, but this one from today really made my blood boil: http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=36376. Basically, a coach came and asked for advice on how to deal with an umpire who clearly missed a call. It was totally innocent. Instead of discussing the matter, the members of this forum essentially told this coach there is no way he could be correct and that he was a whiner. Worse off, though, these umps went on to explain that ALL (yes, all) coaches and players are like this and that they canot be trusted, etc. - even going as far as calling them "rats".

This lack of respect for the people who manage and play the game is something I found very very sad. Would these folks prefer people stop playing and coaching and they just sit around umpiring hypothetical games? Other threads I have read have shown a fondness for ejecting folks for minor offences, claims that coaches just do not know the rules, and even incidences of "baiting" coaches. Am I the only one concerned about the future of the game if these folks are officiating? Coaches usually come out for a love of the game or for the kids (generally they are not paid, unlike the umps) - maybe umps should understand and realize this.

One thing I always teach my kids is a respect for umpires (and most coaches do the same), it's really a shame the favour is not returned.

When watching MLB, we do see the odd hot-head umpire who is on a power-trip or looking for a fight, but generally the umps are quite good - but that is because they realize that they are part of the game and that shirt does not give them extraordinary amounts of power. Hopefully umps with the type of attitude expressed on the forum will never make it to a high level (although it's too bad that grass roots ball is stuck with this type of thing).

Thanks for listening to my vent. The game of baseball is very important to me and I really hope this isn't the reality of how things are going.

[sparks504]

I couldn't agree with you more on your assesment of how umpires view and subsequently respond to coaches , managers and players under the most ideal and most clinical of situations. There's a big difference between coming off as a whiner on the part of a coach , manager , or player and genuinely looking for some kind of an explanation from an umpire as to why he reached his decision under any one of a number of circumstances. I am also dismayed by the fact that umpires who call balls and strikes have such inconsistent strike zones amongst them all. I think there should be one clearly defined pattern for calling balls and strikes. It shouldn't be descretionary upon each individual umpire as to where the strike zone ends. If need be they all need to go back and review how to call balls and strikes, whether it be under some type of schooling that they provide for umpires or reviewing different angles on which balls and strikes are called, (overhead view) comes to mind right away. I watched the end of the game Sunday night when San Diego was down by 5 in the 9th and came back to within one run of tying the game, only for Marcus Giles to be called out on a slider which was CLEARLY off the plate. I equate this to an NBA finals game when with the score tied the ref will call a ticky tak foul on a guy with 1.3 seconds left on the clock, thus affecting the outcome of the game in a very controversial way. Again , i am most disayed by this aspect of the game, along with what the previous gentleman brought forth concerning umpires attitudes in general.... Thank you...

[Armstrong]

The fans come to watch the umpires. Don't you know that?

[Jake Patterson]

[QUOTE=Canuck;942577]Couldn't disagree more. Most of our Umps are board certified and while they have varying levels of competency based on ability and experience I have found close to all to be very professional and helpful. Maybe it's just our board...

[TG Coach]

There are good and bad umpires just like there are good and bad players and coaches. The handful of umpires a coach has an issue with are far easier to remember than the hundreds a coach has a good laugh with at the park. In the big picture I look at the umpires the same way I look at coaches, we're there for the players.

I don't look at umpires as adversaries. Most of them are good. Almost all are putting in maximum effort (knowing the rules, hustling). I also remind parents we don't have MLB umpires because our kids are not MLB players.

Even the one time I was run from a game I showed enough respect for the umpire I walked out to the plate and insulted him in a tone only he could hear and not players and parents. As I left I told the parents to leave the umpire alone since I gave him a very good (albeit short) assessment of his ability and effort. I don't like parents giving an umpire a hard time.

[virg]

Plenty of good ones around, but they don't like presiding over the upset of an undefeated team or pitcher and seem to get too careful then.

[Drill]

Question the rule not the umpire. So you need to know the rules so you don't make the umpire look bad.

Nobody wants to look bad.


respectfully yours,

drill

[Canuck]

Thanks for the responses. I agree for the most part. Just like in any profession, there are good and bad, nice guys and hotheads. For whatever reason, many of the hotheads happen to frequent that little message board. Just today, one of the chief hotheads, made a comment along the lines of how dare we, as coaches, suggest we know more about the game than an umpire. LOL. I'd love to know the last time that guy taught base stealing.

[TG Coach]

Thanks for the responses. I agree for the most part. Just like in any profession, there are good and bad, nice guys and hotheads. For whatever reason, many of the hotheads happen to frequent that little message board. Just today, one of the chief hotheads, made a comment along the lines of how dare we, as coaches, suggest we know more about the game than an umpire. LOL. I'd love to know the last time that guy taught base stealing.

With all due respect to the few good LL umpires, we had umpires in our LL who thought they knew more about the game because they knew the rule book. None of them ever played the game at a competitive level. I was their worst nightmare, a coach who had read the rule book.

The biggest mistake a lot of coaches make is not reading the rule book relating to the level of play they coach. A coach should never think he knows the rules because he played the game. Rules can be different in each program. Rules can change from year to year.

I watched a bunch of parents and a coach go nuts over a "must slide" double play call. Since I was just an observer without a kid playing I wasn't sure what the rules were for the program. It turns out Junior Legion/Legion ball has a "force play, must slide" rule. Several parents made fools of themselves screaming otherwise. I didn't know the rule. My son play USSSA where we have "must avoid contact" not FPMS. I kept my mouth shut other than asking if Legion uses OBR or FED. None of the loudmouth parents knew.

[scorekeeper]

Canuck,

Being someone who has gotten “flamed” pretty well on that site, I can certainly understand how you would get the idea that all umps, or at least all umps who frequent that site are pretty much jerks. However, you have to remember that your perspective is nowhere near what theirs is.

You should be able to answer your own question: Is knowledge of the rules of baseball all that is required to umpire? You know it takes far more than that, but without that knowledge, its pretty much impossible to do the job.

The thing is, you have to separate individuals from the group when you start to try to analyze why things appear as they do. FI, I’m fairly sure the one fellow who’s been umping for 21 years isn’t out there doing a lot of LLI games, so he’s used to dealing with coaches who may not be “good”, but they do have lots of experience in dealing with umpires.

You can no more expect umpires who generally deal with a college or pro environment to deal very well with Little League coaches, as you could expect tenured college professors to deal very well with grade school situations. Just because the game is baseball, it doesn’t mean everyone’s playing the same game by the same rules and using the same language to communicate.

As far as the “rat” comment, I don’t know why that made you so angry. The original poster called himself a rat in the title of the very first post. As a matter of fact, I also see coaches as whiners, very seldom correct in their interpretation of an on field event that’s driven by umpires, and unable to be trusted. The difference is, I don’t see “ALL” coaches that way, any more than I see all parents as PITA’s, all players as a$$ busting, clean living people who’d lay their life down for the integrity of the game in a heartbeat.

The lack of respect isn’t something confined to umpires! The next time you’re at a game, listen, or even better, have someone put a tape recorder so that it can pretty much hear what’s being said in the stands on both sides of the field. Even better, surreptitiously put a recorder in both dugouts and listen to what the coaches say about the parents, and umpires, right in front of the players who they are supposed to be role models for.

There are umpires who eject people more than others, but I have to tell ya, ejections are much more of a conversation topic than actual fact! In college and HS ball, ejections are very much frowned upon by administrators. In two years of watching about 120 college games, and 6 years of watching about 200 HS games, I only saw 2 college coaches get run, and 5 HS coaches. Now that may not be typical, but in my experience, all this tossing of coaches is exaggerated way out of proportion to what’s really happening.

Now when you start talking about tournament and youth coaches, there’s a whole new dynamic that comes into play. Think about how many of those guys would qualify as a HS or above coach. of course there are some, but for the most part, those guys simply don’t possess the wherewithal to deal with umpires very well. then, that gets compounded by the fact that at the lower levels, in general, the umpires aren’t a very skilled lot either. Toss in ignorant players, and even more ignorant parents, and it’s a disaster just waiting to happen.

You’re correct that coaches usually come out for a love of the game or for the kids, but what makes you believe most umpires don’t do it for the same reasons? Sure a lot of them get paid, but picture why that is, and also understand that most head coaches at HS and above get paid too.

Do you really think there’s a lot of umpires coming out for 25-$75 a game because they’re gonna get rich? Picture yourself doing something for $75 that takes 3-4 hours of your life, and during most of that time you’re the object of derision by half the folks at a game and the object of affection by the other half, but that often flip flops with every pitch!

When you watch a MLB game, you need to keep in mind that those guys are scrutinized like vultures looking for a meal, and the odd guy you see such as you described either changes or is rapidly disposed of.

Whether or not “grass roots ball” is stuck with anything, you have to remember, you usually get what you pay for, and like water, people involved in a common endeavor normally seek their own level.

I’m glad there are folks like you out there who still have a lot of caring and passion for the game! You keep it fresh. But, you have to understand that an entire group of people who number in at least the tens of thousands, can’t be faithfully represented by the few you come into personal contact with, or the 10-20 you see posting on a WWW bulletin board.