Do you want Bonds to break the record?

[SteveNYY]

Do you want Bonds to break the record?

Personally I hope he gets 1 shy, then has a heart attack and can't ever play again.. but even if he does break it I think ARod is gonna break that anyway

a steroid user holding one of (if not the) most prestigious records is sports is a disaster, a disgrace, and a shame

[Westlake]

A heart attack? You're a cruel person. It's sad that you would wish that upon someone.

[SteveNYY]

he's a cheater whose ruining the sport and it's reputation.. he's the only person id wish that upon

[bigtime39]

I voted "no", but he's going to break the record regardless of what I think. And frankly, I'm not going to be all that thrilled when that Rodriguez person breaks the record, either.

[TonyStarks]

I voted no....but I'm sure that he will break the record barring an unforeseen event.




And FYI: There are rules against wishing bodily harm to players.

I'd edit that remark before one of the Gods sees it and puts you on the naughty list.

[Red Sox Rule]

I dont want him to but i think he will and i definatly dont wish harm to him. A heart attack? fairly harsh aint it!?!?

[hiddengem]

Do you want Bonds to break the record?

Personally I hope he gets 1 shy, then has a heart attack and can't ever play again.. but even if he does break it I think ARod is gonna break that anyway

a steroid user holding one of (if not the) most prestigious records is sports is a disaster, a disgrace, and a shame

And you know forsure that A-Rod has never used anything? I'm not saying I know or not, but I do know that he was hitting alot of HR's long before testing started.

[hiddengem]

A heart attack? You're a cruel person. It's sad that you would wish that upon someone.


He's from New York..cut him some slack.

[SteveNYY]

it hasnt been proven that he has unlike bonds

[SteveNYY]

never said i want arod to break it, cause i dont.. i think he will tho

[Williamsburg2599]

it hasnt been proven that he has unlike bonds

I hate to sound like one of those people ;), but they've never proved Bonds has taken steroids either. Amphetamines is a different story. Anyways, use the search button, they're have about a billion threads on this before.

[hiddengem]

it hasnt been proven that he has unlike bonds

Maybe you could point us to where it has been proven by a Major League baseball sanctioned drug test.

[SteveNYY]

maybe i didnt want a thread with a lot of posts in it already and wanted a new one! lol

and cmon man u kno bonds used PED's

[Williamsburg2599]

maybe i didnt want a thread with a lot of posts in it already and wanted a new one! lol

and cmon man u kno bonds used PED's

Again, hate to sound like one of those (;)) people again, but no one KNOWS this, maybe you BELIEVE it, and I would agree with that belief, but the only people that KNOW this is Bonds and his trainer. ( One thing I don't believe is that I'm talking about Bonds AGAIN. :cry: :crazy )

[KCGHOST]

Like many of us I would prefer Aaron to remain the HR King, but it can't be denied that Bonds is a special player.

[hiddengem]

maybe i didnt want a thread with a lot of posts in it already and wanted a new one! lol

and cmon man u kno bonds used PED's


No, I don't know and neither do you. I never actually watched him shoot himself up or take pills. I have my hunches by I surely don't know forsure.

[SteveNYY]

he definitely is^, and he was a hall of famer before he hit the juice..

i dont even know what to say as far as showing we KNOW he took roids cause its never gonna be proven the way you guys want it to be.... yet we all know he took the PED's, which is why i asked if you wanted him to break it, cause you know he took them and therefore doesnt deserve it!

[SteveNYY]

so, what, all the allegations and connections with his trainer and everything that's happened... just all made up? stuff doesnt come about, especially to this magnitude, out of nowhere

[gambler21777]

Personally I hope he gets 1 shy, then has a heart attack and can't ever play again How could you wish that. He will brake the record and he will go to the hof. He was grat befer roids. A heart attak cmon.

[Williamsburg2599]

so, what, all the allegations and connections with his trainer and everything that's happened... just all made up? stuff doesnt come about, especially to this magnitude, out of nowhere

It sold books and magazines and got ESPN ratings, didn't it? While I don't agree that with the Bonds apologists, I can atleast look at it from their POV.

[gambler21777]

Do you want Bonds to break the record?

Personally I hope he gets 1 shy, then has a heart attack and can't ever play again.. but even if he does break it I think ARod is gonna break that anyway

a steroid user holding one of (if not the) most prestigious records is sports is a disaster, a disgrace, and a shame
Why the heck would you wish that. When my son was 2 we went to the giants game and we sat next to Barry Bonds. It happend again when he was 3. The guy was as nice as could be. I wont be mad when he brakes it. But whe A-rod does i will be ticked.

[MyDogSparty]

I have my hunches.

What are they?

[philipthegreat]

I frankly don't give much thought about it because everyone knows he took performance enhancing drugs.

[Paul McCartney]

I'm one of the 2 people that voted 'I don't care.'

[ChrisLDuncan]

And you know forsure that A-Rod has never used anything? I'm not saying I know or not, but I do know that he was hitting alot of HR's long before testing started.

If A-Rod did take stuff it was in conjunction with what every other major leaguer has done. I think he's clean...and I am willing to bet the house that he damn sure didn't juice up like the others of his generation didn't do.




That said if Bonds breaks the record that is the best thing that can possibly happen for baseball. Baseball lacks the body crushing hits of the NFL, and the defiance of laws of physics that basketball has; but it does have it's heroes...well it used too. Cal Ripken Jr was baseball's last hero. If Bonds breaks the record any one who gets close to breaking Bonds' record will become baseball's new hero...he will be greatly received in just about every park like Ripken, Gwynn, and Jr. used to be. He will become MLB's new face and he will be marketed like crazy. This may cause a jump in fan viewership seeing a "clean" guy breaking the record, people getting to say I saw blank player play...kind of like how people used too and still talk about Ripken.


I will draw a comparison to professional wrestling, work with me here, at it's peak popularity it featured the villan boss Vince McMahon who had a generally unlikeable personality and a charasmatic everyman in Stone Cold Steve Austin challenging the villan...then later you had other heros like The Rock...but none were as popular as Stone Cold Steve Austin was, and none drew better ratings. Now baseball will have the villan, and they just need the hero to draw in fans. As things stand right now I see no real oppurtunity for a hero when such a likeable guy in Henry Aaron has the HR record.

[Williamsburg2599]

If A-Rod did take stuff it was in conjunction with what every other major leaguer has done. I think he's clean...and I am willing to bet the house that he damn sure didn't juice up like the others of his generation didn't do.




That said if Bonds breaks the record that is the best thing that can possibly happen for baseball. Baseball lacks the body crushing hits of the NFL, and the defiance of laws of physics that basketball has; but it does have it's heroes...well it used too. Cal Ripken Jr was baseball's last hero. If Bonds breaks the record any one who gets close to breaking Bonds' record will become baseball's new hero...he will be greatly received in just about every park like Ripken, Gwynn, and Jr. used to be. He will become MLB's new face and he will be marketed like crazy. This may cause a jump in fan viewership seeing a "clean" guy breaking the record, people getting to say I saw blank player play...kind of like how people used too and still talk about Ripken.


I will draw a comparison to professional wrestling, work with me here, at it's peak popularity it featured the villan boss Vince McMahon who had a generally unlikeable personality and a charasmatic everyman in Stone Cold Steve Austin challenging the villan...then later you had other heros like The Rock...but none were as popular as Stone Cold Steve Austin was, and none drew better ratings. Now baseball will have the villan, and they just need the hero to draw in fans. As things stand right now I see no real oppurtunity for a hero when such a likeable guy in Henry Aaron has the HR record.

That may be true, but I'd rather see an untainted MLB then one who is popular and cares too much about ratings. It may be good for MLB's pockets, but I'd rather have it be good for the MLB reputation. I'd rather have less fans if it means no having ones who are in the same group of people who watch the NFL just for the hits, or the NBA just for the dunks. (Plus, anyone who knows anything about baseball know the laws of physics can be bent just as much of the diamond as on the hardwood, see Tori Hunter, Coco Crisp.)

[hiddengem]

If A-Rod did take stuff it was in conjunction with what every other major leaguer has done.



If this is true, how is he any better than Bonds, if the allegations agains Barry are true? Isn't cheating, cheating? Why does it matter if you were a juicer or a major juicer?

[SteveNYY]

draw in fans? i hate watching the giants cause of all the coverage of Bonds, Bonds, Bonds.. unless they're playing the yankees theres no way id watch them.. if anything i think the whole situation is turning people off

breaking the record will only make him MORE hated.. hes not all the sudden gonna be accepted by fans

id also much rather an untainted MLB..... we dont need bonds to make up for the lack of hits like in the NFL or gravity like in the NBA, we really dont need that in baseball

[SteveNYY]

and BTW gambler.. the fact that he was nice to your little child doesnt make him a good person or clean player.. what's he gonna do? sit there and make fun of your kid or be an punk? theres very very very few players that might do that


EDIT-- i didnt say 'punk' lol

[west coast orange and black]

stevenyy, what say to the idea that a world series (or 2 or 30) were won on the back(s) of players using? are you bothered by the possibility? i mean, it's the world series.
if no, why not?
if yes, please start a thread as to such.

[SteveNYY]

Yes, I am bothered by that.. but I don't see world series' being won by teams carried by players that everyone knows are steroid users.. and I do see the most prestigious record baseball has being broken by a scumbag

[Williamsburg2599]

Yes, I am bothered by that.. but I don't see world series' being won by teams carried by players that everyone knows are steroid users.. and I do see the most prestigious record baseball has being broken by a scumbag

Giambi has admitted to using steroids..... He put up huge numbers when the Yankees made in to the World Series in 2003.

Bonds played a huge role in the Giants winning the NL pennant in 2002.

The '89 A's won the World Series, with both Canceco and McGwire on the team.

Now I'm not saying the reason these teams made it this far because of steroids, but accused and confessed steroid users HAVE played a role in the playoffs.

[SteveNYY]

did giambi's team win the 03 WS? no.. did he carry that team? no

did the giants win in 2002? no

and thats one, in 89... and yea i do have a problem with that.. as i have a problem with conseco and mcgwire just like i do barry bonds.. only difference is they arent breaking the most prestigious record baseball has

[ChrisLDuncan]

If this is true, how is he any better than Bonds, if the allegations agains Barry are true? Isn't cheating, cheating? Why does it matter if you were a juicer or a major juicer?

Well I think he's clean but I wasn't specifcally reffering to A-Rod, there's also a guy named Pujols too ;) I was more speaking to the public perception.

[ChrisLDuncan]

That may be true, but I'd rather see an untainted MLB then one who is popular and cares too much about ratings. It may be good for MLB's pockets, but I'd rather have it be good for the MLB reputation. I'd rather have less fans if it means no having ones who are in the same group of people who watch the NFL just for the hits, or the NBA just for the dunks. (Plus, anyone who knows anything about baseball know the laws of physics can be bent just as much of the diamond as on the hardwood, see Tori Hunter, Coco Crisp.)

Hey the damage has been done. I agree with you but right now there is no "bad guy" in baseball. There's no one to root for, all the story lines are dead. Also what's good for the gander is good for the goose, if MLB's ratings go up that means more televised baseball across the country. If you're a baseball fan that lives in the midwest life pretty much sucks...the only good team in your area is the Tribe, and you don't get them on TV much, however you get an assload of Cards, Cubs, White Sox, and Royals. However, if MLB's ratings go up perhaps you can get a nationally televised game that's worth watching every night. I personally am a big football fan, but you get a lot of people that watch football for the athletisim of Reggie Bush types, and guys like Ray Lewis crushing dudes (now how is that not fun to watch)...however I watch football for the same reason I watch baseball. People always say baseball is "boring" I call those people "idiots" however, a storyline may be good for the game.

[Williamsburg2599]

did giambi's team win the 03 WS? no.. did he carry that team? no

did the giants win in 2002? no

and thats one, in 89... and yea i do have a problem with that.. as i have a problem with conseco and mcgwire just like i do barry bonds.. only difference is they arent breaking the most prestigious record baseball has

They still won the pennants, and IF steroids played a role in it, they may of kept another deserving team out of the WS. (I'M NOT CLAIMING that's the reason the Yankees beat the Sox in '03 or anything, but like i said before, accused and confessed steroid users HAVE played a role in the playoffs.)

[SteveNYY]

well if you live in midwest u can get mlb.tv, hook your computer up to your tv and boom, every baseball game you get.. like i do lol.. for 50 bucks a year

and i have a muchhh bigger problem with a record such as aaron's being broken then 2 instances of AL/NL pennants being won with the help of those players.. if bonds' giants won the world series that year its just more of a reason for me to hate him lol

[Cucamongadan]

Being a math geek, I just finished running this mornings numbers.

Based on his season total (13 hrs) and the number of Giants games (67) he is getting 1 homer per 5.15 games, which puts him on pace to tie Aaron in the 109th game of the season and pass him on the 114th.

But- he has only 1 homer in his last 44 at bats. If you factor that with his season total 164 at bats in 67 games, his current pace is 1 homer per 17.98 games, and he is on pace to tie Aaron not until the 49th game of 2008, and pass him 162 games from now, in the 67th game of 2008. A year is a long time for a 44 year old player with bad knees among his known ailments.

My prediction is that unless the current slump is because he's falling apart or something, he will get back in a groove any day and break the record this summer.

I voted don't care in the poll, because I'll be happy that such a warm and lovable person gets to break the record, but at the same time I'll be sad for MLB, having to live with the taint of all the PED talk, which is so undeserved after all their years of proactively working against it.
(I'm being sarcastic?)

[sanket]

Personally I hope he gets 1 shy, then has a heart attack and can't ever play again..

I'm with you

[digglahhh]

I'm with you

This a horrible thing to say. So, because he took steroids and is a jerk, you wish for his child to grow up without a father?

If you seriously root for the injury or death of a professional athlete, you have real psychological problems, and probably too much time on your hands.

How would you react if somebody wished that upon your mother?

My opinion, for the record, people should be banned for making posts like that.

[Hammerin Hank]

A heart attack? You're a cruel person. It's sad that you would wish that upon someone.

I personally am opting for a stroke.

[mwb]

I kind of wish it was being broken by someone without a cloud of suspicion hanging over them.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Wow we have a group of saints here at BBF don't we...how about this instead of rooting against Bonds root for people to catch Bonds.

[Williamsburg2599]

Wow we have a group of saints here at BBF don't we...how about this instead of rooting against Bonds root for people to catch Bonds.

Like the Feds? :laugh

[SouthernBelle]

he's a cheater whose ruining the sport and it's reputation.. he's the only person id wish that upon

To wish anyone physically ill is unfortunate. Better to hope that the commissioner makes the (clearly correct) decision to void any and all records held by Bonds and any other player shown to engage in steroid or other performance-enhancing substance abuse. After all, the sole reason they use that junk in the first place is to break records. Thus, the solution would be to take away the coveted prize of the statistical record. I've heard the arguments for the ubiquitous asterisk, and frankly I don't think that's much more than a slap on the wrist. Consequences need teeth to be effective.

[Lin_Kuei_Fighter]

Instead of saying bad things about Bonds, why don't we call the opposing team stupid for pitching to him? And CLD is right.

[Cucamongadan]

Being a math geek, I just finished running this mornings numbers.

Based on his season total (13 hrs) and the number of Giants games (67) he is getting 1 homer per 5.15 games, which puts him on pace to tie Aaron in the 109th game of the season and pass him on the 114th.

But- he has only 1 homer in his last 44 at bats. If you factor that with his season total 164 at bats in 67 games, his current pace is 1 homer per 17.98 games, and he is on pace to tie Aaron not until the 49th game of 2008, and pass him 162 games from now, in the 67th game of 2008. A year is a long time for a 44 year old player with bad knees among his known ailments.

My prediction is that unless the current slump is because he's falling apart or something, he will get back in a groove any day and break the record this summer.

I voted don't care in the poll, because I'll be happy that such a warm and lovable person gets to break the record, but at the same time I'll be sad for MLB, having to live with the taint of all the PED talk, which is so undeserved after all their years of proactively working against it.
(I'm being sarcastic?)


I knew he'd hit one today if I posted this.

[Koufax HOF]

I voted yes so we can just get the damned thing over with.
What should be a moment of complete joy and celebration will become sullied by what we think we know about the man. This will be the first legendary record broken in my lifetime so I look forward to all the hoop-la and endless disscussion.
I`m not a veteran baseball fan like most of you guys out there but this guy didn`t need to do what he did. He`s ruined his reputation, and I wonder what he really thinks about himself and his legacy

[bryanac625]

Do you want Bonds to break the record?

Personally I hope he gets 1 shy, then has a heart attack and can't ever play again.. but even if he does break it I think ARod is gonna break that anyway

a steroid user holding one of (if not the) most prestigious records is sports is a disaster, a disgrace, and a shame

Gosh... I don't care for Barry Bonds at all and I'm glad he doesn't play for any of my teams but perhaps what's just as bad as "a steroid user holding baseball's most prestigious record" is hating this man so much you want him dead.

Don't let this man ruin your life!

[ChrisLDuncan]

Like the Feds? :laugh

HA! I didn't realize I set you up there...yeah that works too.

[Cajun Yankee]

I voted no, even though it will happen. With A-Rod on the way it won't last long.

[Skin & Bones]

To wish anyone physically ill is unfortunate. Better to hope that the commissioner makes the (clearly correct) decision to void any and all records held by Bonds and any other player shown to engage in steroid or other performance-enhancing substance abuse. After all, the sole reason they use that junk in the first place is to break records. Thus, the solution would be to take away the coveted prize of the statistical record. I've heard the arguments for the ubiquitous asterisk, and frankly I don't think that's much more than a slap on the wrist. Consequences need teeth to be effective.

I still can't figure out how MLB should go about this.

How exactly do you erase statistics?

[mwb]

They could come up with a way to determine what records should be erased. It's probably too late for Bonds but they could come up with a plan in the future.

One idea I suggested elsewhere is to have a player tested monthly. If he tests positive, then all stats from the positive test back to the most recent negative test would be erased.

[Skin & Bones]

They could come up with a way to determine what records should be erased. It's probably too late for Bonds but they could come up with a plan in the future.

One idea I suggested elsewhere is to have a player tested monthly. If he tests positive, then all stats from the positive test back to the most recent negative test would be erased.

Again, how do you erase the statistics? What about the strikeouts from pitchers who pitched to the hitter? what about players who scored him in?

Honestly, this whole erasing statistics crap is laughable to me when you have Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford's inflated stats in the books. And, Yes, I do agree there's degrees of cheating, and doctoring the ball is certainly an extremely effective way of cheating. Why it flies under the radar is beyond me.

[SouthernBelle]

I don't think it's a matter of erasing statistics so much as just not posting Bonds' name (or anyone else's who cheats, for that matter) as the record holder. In this case, it would mean allowing Hammerin' Hank's record to stand despite Bonds "breaking" it.

You could look at it as negative reinforcement--Bonds would then become known not for breaking the record but for not being able to claim the record because of his choice to use performance-enhancing drugs.

There are some statistical milestones that players pursue as evidence of being consistently solid--for example, Cal Ripken, Jr. and his record number of consecutive games played. However, there are certain specific stats, and I'd put HR at the top of this list, that are pursued not out of a sense of work ethic but for the ego trip. He's not pursuing this record for any reason other than it is all about him; the only thing about Bonds' pursuit of the record that might be construed as helping the team is that it brings fans (a k a profit) into the stadium.

Having said that--perhaps the best way to deal with the ongoing performance enhancing drug problems in the sport would be to stop keeping official records for the stats where these substances give players an edge.

[Skin & Bones]

I don't think it's a matter of erasing statistics so much as just not posting Bonds' name (or anyone else's who cheats, for that matter) as the record holder. In this case, it would mean allowing Hammerin' Hank's record to stand despite Bonds "breaking" it.

You could look at it as negative reinforcement--Bonds would then become known not for breaking the record but for not being able to claim the record because of his choice to use performance-enhancing drugs.

There are some statistical milestones that players pursue as evidence of being consistently solid--for example, Cal Ripken, Jr. and his record number of consecutive games played. However, there are certain specific stats, and I'd put HR at the top of this list, that are pursued not out of a sense of work ethic but for the ego trip. He's not pursuing this record for any reason other than it is all about him; the only thing about Bonds' pursuit of the record that might be construed as helping the team is that it brings fans (a k a profit) into the stadium.

Having said that--perhaps the best way to deal with the ongoing performance enhancing drug problems in the sport would be to stop keeping official records for the stats where these substances give players an edge.

Well, Bonds is also helping his team by providing very good value with his bat. Like it or not, Bonds is still a very valuable player.

[csh19792001]

If this is true, how is he any better than Bonds, if the allegations agains Barry are true? Isn't cheating, cheating? Why does it matter if you were a juicer or a major juicer?

No, not all forms/methods of cheating are equivalent.

There are degrees of offense. Just as there are degrees of offensive in criminal law. Taking one greenie once is in no way equivalent in its artificial, augmentatory impact on performance as, say, someone like Bonds, who took boatloads of substances- in a completely insidious and perfectly regimented manner- for the sole purposes of becoming a record shattering freak and something he could have never approached naturally. Designer drugs- "the cream" and "the clear", insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate, and trenbolone (a cattle steroid, for chrissake).

Nor is it the same in intent, either. Well, only on the most superficial level. A player is exhausted one night, takes a pill to replenish his energy. The other sets out on a multi-year, deeply involved, illegal quest to vindicate himself against others of his time break alltime records, etc, etc.

And then the trodlodyte goes out, after all the public humilation, vilification, and embarrasment and fails a amphetamine test. Not so long after all the truth came out about his pharm years and the spurious numbers it produced.

[west coast orange and black]

csh19792001: not all forms/methods of cheating are equivalent.
agreed.

Taking one greenie once
do you happen to know that any such player exists?

Nor is it the same in intent, either. A player is exhausted one night, takes a pill to replenish his energy.
what if the pill enables the player to be on the scorecard when he otherwise would not?
allows the player to perform to a certain level when he otherwise would not?

[SouthernBelle]

Well, Bonds is also helping his team by providing very good value with his bat. Like it or not, Bonds is still a very valuable player.

How valuable is it from a team morale standpoint, I wonder, to have a teammate who chooses to put his own ego before the welfare of the team to the point of using banned substances? What good will he do for the Giants if at some point he is banned from the sport for either a finite or indefinite time period?

If I were a teammate of his, I'd have to wonder whether his dedication to the sport was more for his own self-aggrandizement rather than the good of the team or the sport.

[RuthMayBond]

How valuable is it from a team morale standpoint, I wonder, to have a teammate who chooses to put his own ego before the welfare of the team to the point of using banned substances? What good will he do for the Giants if at some point he is banned from the sport for either a finite or indefinite time period?

If I were a teammate of his, I'd have to wonder whether his dedication to the sport was more for his own self-aggrandizement rather than the good of the team or the sport.I'd have to wonder how you know what he's taken, and how apparently no one else has taken anything :confused:

[west coast orange and black]

southernbelle: How valuable is it from a team morale standpoint...
ego has not been a primary catalyst to use. winning has been. as it happens, winning boosts morale.
also, a paycheck has been the catalyst to use. the players all want to win... while getting paid.

If I were a teammate of his...
you would be in the minority on this one.

[iPod]

A heart attack? You're a cruel person. It's sad that you would wish that upon someone.

I'm not very surprised to read people wishing heart attacks on Bonds, but I am surprised to read people are surprised by it. I would put the over/under for "% of mild-to-moderate fans who would approve of a Bonds stroke" at 3/4.

[west coast orange and black]

^^ not according to an espn/abc news poll conducted last month.

37% wanted bonds to break aaron's 755, and 58% think that bonds oughtta go to the hall of fame.
i'm guessin' that these respondants would not want bonds to suffer a stroke.

[Wasp]

Well, I actually would like Bonds to break the record. I really don't see steroid users as being cheaters. Steroids are just another part of the game, sadly. Do I want steroids to be part of the game? Of course not. However, I think that steroids do not make up for the fact of talent. Yes, I know without steroids, Bonds would have probably never came close to the record, but in my mind, its his hitting ability that allowed him to come close to the record and not his steroid use.

On a side note, what about all the innovations that players today get over players of yesteryear? Players today have many advantages of players who played even just within the last 30 years. Heck, even such basic things such as air-conditioning in the dugout affects the gameplay of players today, IMO. Players who played in the times of no air-conditioning had that disadvantage, so should we put an asterisk next to all players' records who had advantages over past players? Of course not.

[SouthernBelle]

southernbelle: How valuable is it from a team morale standpoint...
ego has not been a primary catalyst to use. winning has been. as it happens, winning boosts morale.
also, a paycheck has been the catalyst to use. the players all want to win... while getting paid.

If I were a teammate of his...
you would be in the minority on this one.


I'm sure I would be in the minority--after all, for some people the concept of playing with integrity and winning on the basis of natural talent and ability takes a back seat to winning at all costs--an unfortunate failing of professional sports. This doesn't stop me from being a fan, but it does tend to make me take superstar "accomplishments" with a grain of salt.

[west coast orange and black]

^^ that's cool.
but understand that the superstars have been waaaay outnumbered by non-superstars in the substance use department. you posted that for "some people the concept of playing with integrity and winning on the basis of natural talent and ability takes a back seat to winning at all costs."
i take your "some" to mean much less than a majority. however, a whole lot more that "some" players have used.

[SouthernBelle]

I'd have to wonder how you know what he's taken, and how apparently no one else has taken anything :confused:

I don't have to know exactly what the man has taken to make an educated guess on the basis of the rapid changes in his body and his power--something which has been bandied frequently in the press. Anabolic steroids have a characteristic effect on the musculature. It also accelerates the progression of male pattern baldness, which is triggered as as a result of testosterone and/or its metabolic by-products binding to receptors in the hair follicles, turning hair growth off permanently. If it walks like a duck..etc.

Physiologists and endocrinologists will tell you that heavy upper body muscling is a secondary sex characteristic of testosterone. The anabolic steroids commonly used by athletes are precursors to testosterone--after all, why wait for your body to produce it naturally if you can skip the waiting period? It takes a very long time for those changes to occur with just plain old weightlifting and other training. Then of course there is HGH (human growth hormone)--which is the current darling of the superstar athlete set precisely because it can't be detected in urine tests. Now, why choose to use HGH unless you want to hide the fact you're using performance-enhancing substances from the very people who have the authority to bring your record attempt to a screeching halt?

As for the idea that I think no one else has taken anything else--hah. Do McGwire and Giambi ring a bell? Not to mention the countless others who are under suspicion now or were in the past.

But you know, the interesting thing about cheating with steroids is that whether or not someone makes it to the top as a result of using them, they always come back and bite the user on the butt--accelerated coronary artery disease, increased disability and mortality from heart attacks and strokes, liver and kidney failure. Even scarier, no one knows what the long-term effects of HGH are--but I'm sure we'll see them emerge as the current crop of athletes age.

[SouthernBelle]

^^ that's cool.
but understand that the superstars have been waaaay outnumbered by non-superstars in the substance use department. you posted that for "some people the concept of playing with integrity and winning on the basis of natural talent and ability takes a back seat to winning at all costs."
i take your "some" to mean much less than a majority. however, a whole lot more that "some" players have used.

That's quite right--a lot of those "non-superstars" being young men who look up to those superstars, and so either on their own or on the advice of coaches (or in some cases even parents) take these substances while they are still growing--which makes their long-term effects even more dangerous, and has already been shown to be deadly. That, to me, is the truly sad part of the whole issue: adults who are charged with the well-being of these young men are in fact committing child abuse by encouraging and/or supplying steroids, HGH, and whatever else is seen as the quick fix.

[GoBrewersGo]

Do you want Bonds to break the record?

Personally I hope he gets 1 shy, then has a heart attack and can't ever play again.. but even if he does break it I think ARod is gonna break that anyway

a steroid user holding one of (if not the) most prestigious records is sports is a disaster, a disgrace, and a shame

Yoiks, that's pretty harsh.

I just wish a career ending injury on him

[brewers96]

Personally if I were a pitcher pitching to him I would I would walk him every time. I don't think he toook steroids but I think he took growth pills instead. I wish he was banned from baseball and all his records would get set back 50% and he would never get to play again. Or I wish he got injured or something that he would have to recover from for ten years!

[RuthMayBond]

I personally am opting for a stroke.Whatever low level you think Bonds is on, you (and others) have put yourselves a few light years beneath it :ughh :hp :dismay: :disbelief: :crazy :(

[Williamsburg2599]

Personally if I were a pitcher pitching to him I would I would walk him every time. I don't think he toook steroids but I think he took growth pills instead. I wish he was banned from baseball and all his records would get set back 50% and he would never get to play again. Or I wish he got injured or something that he would have to recover from for ten years!

Growth pills?

[Lucifer]

First of all, people don't take steroids to break records. You think the college kid shooting up as we speak is thinking about breaking a record? He's trying to get into the majors and make a lot of money, be realistic. And you all are overreacting to this guy's opinion- everyone is entitled to their opinion, and even tho I don't necessarily agree that he should die, we don't all need to lecture as if we're his father. It's not taking over anyone's life either, you can't honestly think that.

I don't wanna see Bonds break the record, and I wouldn't mind if he fell with a career ending injury tonight, or tomorrow, or the next day.... and I wouldn't care about how his family feels about it cause he doesn't deserve what he's about to get.

The whole thing about voiding the records of steroid users... that would only work if you knew exactly who took them and who didn't. You kno there are people that took steroids and have broken records but we just have no idea whether they did or not, and unless it can be completely proven we can't void the records... which is why it's so bad that Bonds is gonna break this one!

Don't worry tho people, in a couple of years A-Rod will be breaking it anyway. Whattup, 800!

[Skin & Bones]

i'm still trying to figure out how Bonds cycle was "perfectly" regimented. If it was so perfect, how did he end up on the DL in 1999? then again in 03? And heck, wasn't he complaining about loss of eyesight in his original steroid cycle?

If his regimen was so perfect, he would have avoided injuries, and still be producing at his 04 level - Even with steroid testing, because the muscle can easily be maintained once gained. He benfitted from the juice, as did others, but his regimen was far from perfect.

[baseball_83]

i'm still trying to figure out how Bonds cycle was "perfectly" regimented. If it was so perfect, how did he end up on the DL in 1999? then again in 03? And heck, wasn't he complaining about loss of eyesight in his original steroid cycle?

If his regimen was so perfect, he would have avoided injuries, and still be producing at his 04 level - Even with steroid testing, because the muscle can easily be maintained once gained. He benfitted from the juice, as did others, but his regimen was far from perfect.

According to his former girlfriend, Kim Bell, he told her that the reason why his elbow blew out (1999?) was because the muscles were growing too fast for the ligaments. He over did it. Gaining 35 pounds of muscle in a few years can be a shock to your body, and surely could have contributed to his injuries.

[Skin & Bones]

According to his former girlfriend, Kim Bell, he told her that the reason why his elbow blew out (1999?) was because the muscles were growing too fast for the ligaments. He over did it. Gaining 35 pounds of muscle in a few years can be a shock to your body, and surely could have contributed to his injuries.


Right, so his cycle was far from perfectly regimented. I don't know if he gained 35 pounds of solid muscle in that span though, more like 15-20.

[baseball_83]

according to this (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/704-and-i-dont-care/) article:

It appears that from age 33 to 37 Bonds put on 38 pounds, and by all accounts this wasn't flab but almost pure muscle, as Bonds boasted of his incredibly low 6% body fat in a 2002 article in the New York Times Magazine.

NY Times article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806EFDF113CF932A3575AC0A9649C8B 63&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=all)

[Skin & Bones]

according to this (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/704-and-i-dont-care/) article:

It appears that from age 33 to 37 Bonds put on 38 pounds, and by all accounts this wasn't flab but almost pure muscle, as Bonds boasted of his incredibly low 6% body fat in a 2002 article in the New York Times Magazine.

NY Times article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806EFDF113CF932A3575AC0A9649C8B 63&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=all)

It "appears" is different from what it actually was.

[rdonahue]

... If you're a baseball fan that lives in the midwest life pretty much sucks...the only good team in your area is the Tribe, and you don't get them on TV much, however you get an assload of Cards, Cubs, White Sox, and Royals. ....

What about the Tigers? They're a decent team.

As for Bonds, he'll break it so it doesn't matter what I think. I don't really care but I hope he does just because it'll make a lot of people mad. The whole remove the record thing is pretty stupid though. Regardless of how he breaks the record, he broke it so saying he didn't is pretty dumb seeing as he did do it.

[baseball_83]

It "appears" is different from what it actually was.

Since we're getting into semantics here, the word "appears" was not being used in the sense that the facts were unclear. I guess I should have copied this for you, which preceeded the part of the article that I quoted:

Age 33 - 190
Age 34 - 206
Age 35 - 210
Age 36 - 220
Age 37 - 228

Those are Bonds's playing weights. So, it does, in fact, appear that the author was right.

[tommybaseball]

Bonds could hit 800 homers and he'll never break Bad Henry's record. Just my opinion. I have come to side with him on this point and this point alone however; he shouldn't be the one to take the rap for everyone who juiced. McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, (Brady Anderson's 50???) and let's not let Bumblin' Bud Selig, the worst excuse for a commissioner baseball has ever had, get off here. His ego was was more juiced than all of the players biceps combined. Steroids produced the big Homer hitters again, which brought back the fans through the turnstiles after the strike of '94, which raised average players salaries through the roof which drove up the price of the ticket, which is why I can't go to as many games as I used to cause I can't afford to pay $65.00 for a ticket that cost $18.00 in 1998.

It's just a shame that steroids have ruined one of the games great aspects, the record books. It's as if the record books were put into ADOBE PHOTOSHOP and warped. It's a shame that innocent players are subjected to similar questioning.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Bonds could hit 800 homers and he'll never break Bad Henry's record. Just my opinion. I have come to side with him on this point and this point alone however; he shouldn't be the one to take the rap for everyone who juiced. McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, (Brady Anderson's 50???) and let's not let Bumblin' Bud Selig, the worst excuse for a commissioner baseball has ever had, get off here. His ego was was more juiced than all of the players biceps combined. Steroids produced the big Homer hitters again, which brought back the fans through the turnstiles after the strike of '94, which raised average players salaries through the roof which drove up the price of the ticket, which is why I can't go to as many games as I used to cause I can't afford to pay $65.00 for a ticket that cost $18.00 in 1998.

It's just a shame that steroids have ruined one of the games great aspects, the record books. It's as if the record books were put into ADOBE PHOTOSHOP and warped. It's a shame that innocent players are subjected to similar questioning.

Why bring Brady Anderson into this? If he really had taken steroids, why didn't he have continued success? That was just a fluky season. Those happen. It is statistically possible and quite normal for many players to have one or even two seasons out of the norm. Look at what happened to John Smoltz in 1996 and what's happening to Willie Harris right now.

[Skin & Bones]

Since we're getting into semantics here, the word "appears" was not being used in the sense that the facts were unclear. I guess I should have copied this for you, which preceeded the part of the article that I quoted:

Age 33 - 190
Age 34 - 206
Age 35 - 210
Age 36 - 220
Age 37 - 228

Those are Bonds's playing weights. So, it does, in fact, appear that the author was right.

Interesting, because I have an old USA today article where it states that during the 1996 off-season Bonds weighed over 200 pounds, and was benching over 300 pounds, and boasting a ridiculously low bodyfat%. And that was a few years before he hooked up with Greg Anderson ( he hired him in 1999).

[baseball_83]

Interesting, because I have an old USA today article where it states that during the 1996 off-season Bonds weighed over 200 pounds, and was benching over 300 pounds, and boasting a ridiculously low bodyfat%. And that was a few years before he hooked up with Greg Anderson ( he hired him in 1999).

If he weighed over 200, and had a low body fat %, how could he be around 190 during the season? Did he lose more than 10 pounds of muscle before the season started? Or are you contesting his listed playing weight? You have a date and author for that article?

[Robin Yount]

Of course I want him to shatter bitter face Aaron's record. Bonds is awesome baby! Goooooooooooo Bondser. Down with racist Bonds bashers who use roids as a disguise for their hate (some of them)

[Robin Yount]

Being a math geek, I just finished running this mornings numbers.

Based on his season total (13 hrs) and the number of Giants games (67) he is getting 1 homer per 5.15 games, which puts him on pace to tie Aaron in the 109th game of the season and pass him on the 114th.

But- he has only 1 homer in his last 44 at bats. If you factor that with his season total 164 at bats in 67 games, his current pace is 1 homer per 17.98 games, and he is on pace to tie Aaron not until the 49th game of 2008, and pass him 162 games from now, in the 67th game of 2008. A year is a long time for a 44 year old player with bad knees among his known ailments.

My prediction is that unless the current slump is because he's falling apart or something, he will get back in a groove any day and break the record this summer.

I voted don't care in the poll, because I'll be happy that such a warm and lovable person gets to break the record, but at the same time I'll be sad for MLB, having to live with the taint of all the PED talk, which is so undeserved after all their years of proactively working against it.
(I'm being sarcastic?)


Yeah it's quite a slump alright, lol, .293 35 RBI 15 HRs 74 BBs 37 R .587 SLG .494 OBP in 74 SF games. Rofl, this dude is having one horrific season for a guy about to turn 43. His HR pace won't continue at a rate of 1 every 18 games; that's just ludicrous. Bonds will break out anytime. The man is a monster player. Goooooooooo Barry