Building muscle to throw harder?

[Charger567]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have heard mixed opinions on how to throw harder. I may be misguided, but for a while in the past I believed that strength does not make you throw harder, only mechanics can. Then I heard about Clemens having to get in shape to be a power pitcher. So my question is, even if it is an obvious one: Will getting stronger help me to throw harder? What parts of my body should I be training? I have been focusing on the legs and abs a bit more than anything else. Core is a distant third, and triceps fourth.

[Jake Patterson]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have heard mixed opinions on how to throw harder. I may be misguided, but for a while in the past I believed that strength does not make you throw harder, only mechanics can. Then I heard about Clemens having to get in shape to be a power pitcher. So my question is, even if it is an obvious one: Will getting stronger help me to throw harder? What parts of my body should I be training? I have been focusing on the legs and abs a bit more than anything else. Core is a distant third, and triceps fourth.

I guess another way to ask this question is will losing strength help you throw harder? Probably not...

Strength conditioning will help you perform better as an overall athlete, to includes throwing.

[kylebee]

Core is a distant third, and triceps fourth.

You should definitely fix this.

Squats/deadlifts will work both your core and your legs, and are MUCH better exercises than 95% of stuff in the gym.

[Charger567]

You should definitely fix this.

Squats/deadlifts will work both your core and your legs, and are MUCH better exercises than 95% of stuff in the gym.

I do everything at home. I run straight uphill on my treadmill and do dynamic warm ups for my legs, bench dips for my triceps, and various exercises for my abs.

So could you clarify, will this make me throw harder?

[kylebee]

I do everything at home. I run straight uphill on my treadmill and do dynamic warm ups for my legs, bench dips for my triceps, and various exercises for my abs.

So could you clarify, will this make me throw harder?

I can't authoritatively say it will make you throw harder, but a strong body is a good one. I am of the opinion that mechanics are first and foremost and that strength conditioning will help in you in your quest. It should also help mitigate injury risks.,

[XFactor]

Don't run uphill, there's no running uphill in baseball, and yes, there is a difference between running uphill and flat ground.

It won't make you throw harder unless you have obvious lack of strength. Ask yourself how much strength does it take to throw a 5 oz baseball?

The right work outs can help you practice longer, improve heat-tolerance, help you mentally and decrease your chance of injury, which allows you to pitch more (giving good mechanics), which equates to more velocity.

[MrUniverse09]

I'm 6'3 220 with a lot of muscle and my arm is the weakest on my team. Don't know why. Sure is annoying though.



So I would say that muscle mass has little to do with arm strength.

[Jake Patterson]

I'm 6'3 220 with a lot of muscle and my arm is the weakest on my team. Don't know why. Sure is annoying though.



So I would say that muscle mass has little to do with arm strength.

I don't think Charger was talking about muscle mass - just arm strength.

[MrUniverse09]

I don't think Charger was talking about muscle mass - just arm strength.




Heh...kind of a misleading thread title then.

[Jake Patterson]

Heh...kind of a misleading thread title then.

Strength is needed, mass can be limiting.

[Encinitas]

I don't know why anyone would say you shouldn't do hill sprints for overall fitness. I am not saying you have to, I am just saying that adding additional resistance is likely good thing. Find a steep grade, and sprint up the hill full out 10-15 seconds, walk back down, do this 6-8 times once or twice a week. It won't kill him and the heavy interval training is complimentary to the type of work he'll do pitching.

Another option would be to simply go to a track, and do this for a short time on flat ground, and make sure all the tendons, joints, and muscles are primed a bit, before adding uphill resistance.

I am guessing Clemens has a strong squat and deadlift, though I have never heard any specific numbers.

[TG Coach]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have heard mixed opinions on how to throw harder. I may be misguided, but for a while in the past I believed that strength does not make you throw harder, only mechanics can. Then I heard about Clemens having to get in shape to be a power pitcher. So my question is, even if it is an obvious one: Will getting stronger help me to throw harder? What parts of my body should I be training? I have been focusing on the legs and abs a bit more than anything else. Core is a distant third, and triceps fourth.

Getting stronger will help you throw harder. Since you're thirteen a lot of that strength will come just from growing. Be careful what kind of training you do and how much during these important growth years. Do not do something, or to the extent it could damage growth plates.

Some of the 13yo's you're around are throwing harder because they have physically developed earlier. Your turn will come.

[Chris O'Leary]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have heard mixed opinions on how to throw harder. I may be misguided, but for a while in the past I believed that strength does not make you throw harder, only mechanics can. Then I heard about Clemens having to get in shape to be a power pitcher. So my question is, even if it is an obvious one: Will getting stronger help me to throw harder? What parts of my body should I be training? I have been focusing on the legs and abs a bit more than anything else. Core is a distant third, and triceps fourth.

I would focus on the core, and anything that rotates the torso, which should include your abs and lats. I would also do some leg work.

I would also focus on conditioning your rotator cuff.

Biceps and Triceps work is a waste of time (in terms of pitching).

[Chris O'Leary]

I do everything at home. I run straight uphill on my treadmill and do dynamic warm ups for my legs, bench dips for my triceps, and various exercises for my abs.

So could you clarify, will this make me throw harder?

No.

What you need to do are straight and rotating sit-ups and related exercises that work your core.

[Go Cardinals]

I hit the gym during the offseason. I spent 3 months. I did total upper body, lower body, core etc every thing. I trained like i was a football player, a basketball player, and a baseball player. I would go to the gym 2 times a week for about 8hrs all together (a week). I ran alot, i biked alot, I did every work out possible (hence i spent so much time in the gym, and the doctor said that i never stunted my growth). Along with growing an inch (Since I was 13- 14 in theese 3 months), my power went up, my speed went up, my arm strenght went up 100 ft (Along with improved mechanics). And, this is not from growing because it is my growing time or whatever. I got great results from working out, and i would definatley recomend exercising everything (Every muscle, even if it is quote on qoute useless for baseball), because it makes you a better overall athlete.

[Go Cardinals]

No.

What you need to do are straight and rotating sit-ups and related exercises that work your core.


I would have to disagree with you Chris (Wow, this is a first, and you will propably prove me wrong, but it's worth a try). I believe that running uphill does help alot for pitchers especially younger ones, in fact only younger ones. Here's why...

I don't know if this is true everywhere, but alot of kids are over weight, and by running uphill, you burn off alot of weight, therefore your a better athlete, quicker... follow what i'm saying. In my opinion, to do any type of physical sport and do it well, you need to be in great shape. If your in great shape, you'll be a better athlete..;.

I hope that makes sense, I know I may not of been to clear...

Oh and, your page on rotational hitting is amazing. I did most of the stuff, but now I know what its called, and how rotational hitting actually works... your site rocks.

[Postblank]

Most weight regiments for building arm strength will do nothing to help you throw harder. Obviously being a better athlete is to your advantage but that's not the goal in question.

Mike Marshall didn't used to recommend (biological) 12-15 year olds using his wrist weight and iron ball exercises, but I think he rescinded that stance. Someone your age can do his exercises with five pound wrist weights and (I think) two pound iron balls. If done properly, that would strengthen your rotator cuff muscles, bones and ligaments. I think you could continue throwing "traditionally" but the exercises would have to be done Mike's way.

Marshall cites Tommy John and Rudy Saez as those who've utilized his iron ball throws, and I'm fairly certain they didn't use his pitching motion.

[XFactor]

I'm the one that said not to do running up-hill (as opposed to doing no running at all. If they are over weight, then heck, do both, but baseball is not played running up-hill)

40.7: "For example, training for running on the flat does little for hill running. Both forms of running need specific training for adequate training effects to occur (Noakes, 1986). For a player's sprinting to imrpove, sprinting has to be part of the training program. A great deal of the strength of the principle of specificity resides in the selective adaptation of the muscle functioning for particular actions. This suggests that enhancement of oxygen extraction in muscles can only be trained by using the form, speed, and intensity of the targeted competitive activity as a training stimulus. Since baseball involves upright runningm it would seem that running would be the best aerobic training activity. While other activities (e.g., cycling ergometry, rowing, Stairmaster) also produce aerobic work, it would not be specific to running and would only transfer partially when a player was in a state of very poor fitness."

So why not just stick with running on the flat?

[Chris O'Leary]

I would have to disagree with you Chris (Wow, this is a first, and you will propably prove me wrong, but it's worth a try). I believe that running uphill does help alot for pitchers especially younger ones, in fact only younger ones. Here's why...

I don't have a problem with running (or running uphill) from the standpoint of general conditioning. The legs are involved in the throw and thus this could be beneficial.

However, I think there are other things that a pitcher could and should do that would benefit them more directly (and that are pretty much missing from the workout plan described above).

[Go Cardinals]

I don't have a problem with running (or running uphill) from the standpoint of general conditioning. The legs are involved in the throw and thus this could be beneficial.

However, I think there are other things that a pitcher could and should do that would benefit them more directly (and that are pretty much missing from the workout plan described above).

Ohh, ok, thank you... that makes sense...

[AcidLake]

building muscles to throw harder? if that's true, Sandy Koufax should've had Gabe Kapler arms

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

One thing I've been wondering about is this. I know that Jays pitcher Brandon League is currently on the 60-day DL because of the fact that he worked out too much in the offseason, and apparently tired out his arm or something (I believe he has ligament damage or something).

Can too much working out (too much bulk) be a bad thing?

[Chris O'Leary]

One thing I've been wondering about is this. I know that Jays pitcher Brandon League is currently on the 60-day DL because of the fact that he worked out too much in the offseason, and apparently tired out his arm or something (I believe he has ligament damage or something). Can too much working out (too much bulk) be a bad thing?

If by working out you mean heavy duty weightlifting, the answer is yes.

The biggest problem is muscle imbalances. In essence, you build up your accelerators (e.g. pecs) without building up your brakes. Poor technique can also cause problems in the shoulders. The same thing goes for lifting too much weight.

You have to follow a balanced workout program that works all of the muscles in your arm (e.g. both sides of the shoulder joint). Usually that can be accomplished using just 3 to 5 pound barbells.

[XFactor]

And also, if you do heavy lifting, then pitch without proper rest, you can damage yourself further.

As well as, you don't want your speed of movement to decrease, which happened to Pedro Martinez, gaining 25-30 pounds of muscle and he can barely hit 90 now, and has had injuries.

[AcidLake]

Oh, and didn't Brandon League got the very reverse 'benefit' of lifting during the offseason? I remember reading the article that he got injured so bad

[Postblank]

You have to follow a balanced workout program that works all of the muscles in your arm (e.g. both sides of the shoulder joint). Usually that can be accomplished using just 3 to 5 pound barbells.
Absolutely, I do this for physical therapy and it's awesome.

Anyone who wants to do this:
- Lay on your glove side, with a rolled or folded up towel under your pitching elbow. Keep your elbow at your side.
- Take a 2-5lb dumbbell and raise the dumbbell from a resting position upward, again, keeping the elbow at your side, until your arm is at least close to perpendicular to the plane of the rest of your body. Obviously this will vary due to your r.o.m., so adjust to comfort.
- Slowly return the arm to resting position. Do in sets of thirty or (depending on dumbbell weight) until failure. 5 lb weights can be a bit intense at first.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Oh, and didn't Brandon League got the very reverse 'benefit' of lifting during the offseason? I remember reading the article that he got injured so badYa. He had a sore arm after the season so the Jays told him not to throw until December. So instead he started to lift alot, and I think it severley limited his flexibility and stuff...

[R_MIOK]

I started working out about a year ago, and ive gained about 5 mph on my fastball. Now its at about 77 mph. It might be from me get older though and also naturaly getting stronger. Im 16 now. Running on a treadmill or around your neighbor hood will increase your stamina too.

[AcidLake]

Im 16 now. Running on a treadmill or around your neighbor hood will increase your stamina too.
Yeah, I do that a lot

I started working out about a year ago, and ive gained about 5 mph on my fastball. Now its at about 77 mph.
Here's a possible scenario that might've happened
Increasing 5mph in a year in growth stage is just normal. I was throwing 69~71mph before I changed my mechanics and I throw over 77mph now.

[R_MIOK]

I should also mention ive been going to a pitching coach.

[Maxx]

building muscles to throw harder? if that's true, Sandy Koufax should've had Gabe Kapler arms


Building strength and power primarily in the LOWER body can increase velocity in a lot of cases.

[AcidLake]

Building strength and power primarily in the LOWER body can increase velocity in a lot of cases.

Unless unfortunate things happen, I think building lower body strength can build explosiveness on lower parts. I think that's how you do it.

Building upper body parts, boy that's a very different case:thumbsdown:

[korp]

Strength training is something that opinions on has changed drastically or at least from people I have talked to from when I started considering it. When I first started conditioning type things I was told that arm band stuff and conditioning was the best for baseball. Then I went on to realize that major league players are huge and theres no way bands did all that. The big thing is you can lift and lift hard but you do not want to lose flexibility in your muscles. On my college team the pitchers work heavy on legs (poles, squats ect) and some do upperbody lifting but for pitchers you have to be careful on the shoulders (rotator cuff) because the heavier weights the more wear and tear especially from just regular use. Position players use their arm alot less during the day compaired to pitchers and thats why you see those players being relatively huge. You also want to be strong as well as have endurance since games last 7-9 innings for regulation. I find that squats work well if you have a place to do them .. I prefer the squat machines over the bars though because in my mind they allow too much free movements and will always be less safe but can work well if you have a good spotter. Instead of squats you can do leg extension and hamstring curl because they work the same muscles in the legs. For upperbody the triceps are a good muscle to work hard and your back too. You have to be careful on the chest because this is the part that can take flexibility away if your pecks are big. Also your biceps aren't really used because they focus on pulling motions which baseball is not but you can still work them to a point. Last but should be first is your core ... medicine ball workouts, exercise ball stuff ect. Hope this helped some.

Plyometic workouts are very good for baseball too like dot drills, agility ladders ect.

[Maxx]

I prefer the squat machines over the bars though because in my mind they allow too much free movements and will always be less safe but can work well if you have a good spotter. Instead of squats you can do leg extension and hamstring curl because they work the same muscles in the legs.

Sorry Korp, I have to disagree with these statements. Though squat machines may be safer, that "free movement" that you talked about is important when doing bar squats. It allows the body to perform the movement in a more natural motion, plus the body is forced to balance the weight which causes the recruitment of more muscle groups.

Also, leg extensions and curls are not the best exercises. They are single joint exercises, meaning only one joint moves and the number of muscle groups involved is limited. Also, the amount of weight moved is small in comparison to multi-joint exercises.

Instead, the athlete, in this case a baseball/softball player, should focus on multi-joint exercises. These exercises require the involvement of multiple joints and muscle groups, so there is more weight lifted, and more work performed. Squats, deadlifts, cleans, push/jerk presses, lunges, and step-ups are all great options. The nice thing about squats, deadlifts and lunges is that there are a lot of variations of these exercises that can be performed.

In my opinion, the power clean is the best exercise because it involves a lot of lower body AND upper body muscles and it builds a great deal of power, especially in the hip and upper leg area.

Anyone performing olympic/power exercises should do so under proper supervision and instruction.......

[Drill]

My son runs cross country and track. It seemed to help him as a catcher and you all know what is involved in catching.

He is going up to large field next year and is behind age wise when it comes to gaining experience in little league play on large field. He had to play majors this year but has played all positions now and is a true utility play, this year he wanted to learn to play catcher position. He is now playing on the all star team and is catcher. Oh by the way he is a not a coaches or board members son or relative to anyone in the know. (LOL)

He knows to gain a spot on JV team (to get passed all the politics and getting use to a larger field) he will have to work extra hard with personal trainers and keep running cross country which he loves to do to maintain his strength. He wanted to get coached up so I got him two college baseball coach's one of which teaches some agility in with catcher(footwork) training. I take him to his work outs and keep my mouth shut. At the end of the work out I ask what my son needs to work on and keep a work out journal for him so he can remember drills and comments from the coach/trainers.
below is the ole agility ladder which is used during one of my sons workout.
http://www.power-systems.com/nav/closeup.aspx?c=4&sc=23&g=2587&Pro/Agility/Ladder™

Yes there are some kids that are good and don't have to play daddy or coaches ball or politics to get on the team. That is what my son has done ever since he and I saw how little league baseball/baseball is played in general. He loves the sport and sees how hard he has to play to get a spot on the team because of politics and other good ball players.

The above and the above is what sparks his motivation to train and train hard(even with the activities he is involved in he still balanced out his school work with all A's for the whole year in school.)

Please be sure to balance your life with positive and spiritual motivation, proper nutrition and a good training program. About your original question about how to make you stronger in the throwing area.

I have always been perplexed when it comes to weights and training. I live in a farming area and you have kids doing farm work almost as soon as they can carry a water bucket and than progressing into heavy lifting on a daily bases. This does not mean its right but I don't see where it has hurt them, except make them better built and stronger players.

Since I have no science to back up the above statement I guess the safe route I would suggest is personal sports trainer to center in on what exercises you need for the activity you want to improve on. But if you don't want to spend the money(these good people are not cheap) just ask your local farmer to work for free and I bet you will get an odd look and a smile and will probably say yes, after you tell him why. He may even pay you something to get a free work out. If you can find a farmer that still bales small square bales of hay and hand throws them on a hay wagon that would probably be your best routine to build up your core strength. Nothing like a good sweat tossing hay bales on a wagon and stacking them in the barn on a 90+ degree day.

If you don't want to go the country boy work out find a good sports trainer and gym with a sauna which will probably cost more.

good luck on your quest.

drill

[korp]

Sorry Korp, I have to disagree with these statements. Though squat machines may be safer, that "free movement" that you talked about is important when doing bar squats. It allows the body to perform the movement in a more natural motion, plus the body is forced to balance the weight which causes the recruitment of more muscle groups.

Also, leg extensions and curls are not the best exercises. They are single joint exercises, meaning only one joint moves and the number of muscle groups involved is limited. Also, the amount of weight moved is small in comparison to multi-joint exercises.

Instead, the athlete, in this case a baseball/softball player, should focus on multi-joint exercises. These exercises require the involvement of multiple joints and muscle groups, so there is more weight lifted, and more work performed. Squats, deadlifts, cleans, push/jerk presses, lunges, and step-ups are all great options. The nice thing about squats, deadlifts and lunges is that there are a lot of variations of these exercises that can be performed.

In my opinion, the power clean is the best exercise because it involves a lot of lower body AND upper body muscles and it builds a great deal of power, especially in the hip and upper leg area.

Anyone performing olympic/power exercises should do so under proper supervision and instruction.......

As I do agree that multi joint exercises are the best for minimal workout time during the week your information was wrong in one spot. Yes the weights are smaller when you isolate the muscle but if you think about it when you squat you use all of your lower body. If you were to do just leg extensions you cannot do the same weight because its using one muscle not the whole leg. They still accomplish the same thing which is balancing the muscles so one is not stronger than the other. As for squats with a machine ... they focus the weight on the legs where as the bar will make you center the weight but they still both provide power to the legs. Anyways as long as the player doesn't lose flexibility most weight lifting can help.

Also as I could not find Albert Pujols workout in the magazine Muscle & Fitness (many critics disagree with his training anyways since its basically 2 days in the week with a bunch of overtraining) I did however find Barry Bonds workout .... minus the steroids lol. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/training/4?page=1
Thats the link .. he uses split training to ensure he trains every major muscle in his body. All of his lifting is designed to isolate the muscles though so he can just work that muscle. The reason for legs twice a week is because they recover quicker than any part of the body since they are the strongest part of a swing. Compound or multi-joint exercises can be done 3-4 times a week because they use all the muscles and do not work them to the point where you only need once a week. Nutrition goes along with training though and is very important as well. Also the power-systems agility ladder workout is very good for agility because baseball is a game of quick movements.

[DunninLA]

General Core work is great. Take a look at all the muscles throughout the body that are used in throwing a ball, from the feet to the muscles in the neck that support the movement of the head. And they have to be built in balance, not favoring one arm or one part of the body over another.

I found a while back the Kerlin/Jobe excercises used for rehabilitating rotator cuffs. I printed them out and my kid uses them with 2-3-4-5 lb. dumbells.

Many injuries come not from bringing the ball forward and to release, but from rapid deceleration of the arm after the ball has left the hand. Make sure to follow through COMPLETELY with your torso rotation and the arm wrapping around the torso.

Then there is over/under training. Try throwing with a 3oz. ball and a 7 oz. ball along with the 5 oz. ball.

Lastly, there is long toss. This is an area I know less about, but there are structured long toss programs that build arm strength.

After having said all that, good mechanics brings the biggest increase in velocity.

[Maxx]

As I do agree that multi joint exercises are the best for minimal workout time during the week your information was wrong in one spot. Yes the weights are smaller when you isolate the muscle but if you think about it when you squat you use all of your lower body. If you were to do just leg extensions you cannot do the same weight because its using one muscle not the whole leg.

So, do you isolate muscles when you throw, hit, or pitch, OR do you use the whole lower body? The answer would be the latter, which is why multi-joint training is more beneficial. Ask any training professional which exercises build strong, powerful muscles, and I can guarantee that leg curl, leg extension, and leg press will not be in their answer. Olympic exercises and plyometrics are the answer......

They still accomplish the same thing which is balancing the muscles so one is not stronger than the other. As for squats with a machine ... they focus the weight on the legs where as the bar will make you center the weight but they still both provide power to the legs.

A machine does not focus the weight on the legs, because again, you are forced to move the weight in ONE plane, which is not a natural movement. Sports are not played in one plane. When you move a weight in one plane, you are not incorporating all of the muscles needed to build POWER!

Finally, while Muscle & Fitness may provide some good reading, I would not implement any training plan that they promote. For one, they are a bodybuilding magazine, and bodybuilding training is much different then training for sports. And the magazine's goal is to make money, not make athletes.

Just my 2 cents.....

[jenKins887]

I pitch, and increasing my strength has helped me improve with my pitching power. I usually stretch, run a mile or 2, throw a football around to keep my wrist loose, and then I'll pitch to a strike-zone. Before I go to bed I'll do 20 x 20 curls, 20 x 20 squats, and 10 push-ups. Hope this helps.

[LGehrig]

Just keep throwing and working on mechanics. Either you have the arm or you don't--I don't know if strength training will help except for lower body power. Make sure your pitching coach knows his stuff (ie. you should always lead with your elbow, etc.)

[Maxx]

After bashing Muscle & Fitness, I should have given you a better alternative: STACK Magazine is a great resource with tons of articles about the real training programs of elite athletes, plus lots of nutritional info. You can visit their website at stackmag.com where all of the articles are posted. Also if you are a student or work at a school, you can receive free copies of the magazine for ALL of your student-athletes at your school. It is definitely worth it. I use ideas from the magazine in our workouts pretty frequently.

[bladestriker]

You should definitely fix this.

Squats/deadlifts will work both your core and your legs, and are MUCH better exercises than 95% of stuff in the gym.


Thank you! Squats will improve a number of lifts, bench press being one of them, just due to core strength.

Squats done properly are one of the best lift for an athlete. Olympic lifts are all "athletic" moves and will dramatically build core strength.

[achaley07]

coming from a pitcher i believe running, core excersizes and rotator cuff excersizes are by far the best thing a pitcher can do to help himself throw harder. Over the past couple years i have seen my velocity gradually go up about 3-4 mph every year since my sophmore season starting at about 85 mph when i had to stop relying on my growth and development to gain mph i have worked on alot of different things but these seem to work the best for me.

[Maxx]

coming from a pitcher i believe running, core excersizes and rotator cuff excersizes are by far the best thing a pitcher can do to help himself throw harder. Over the past couple years i have seen my velocity gradually go up about 3-4 mph every year since my sophmore season starting at about 85 mph when i had to stop relying on my growth and development to gain mph i have worked on alot of different things but these seem to work the best for me.


Lower body exercises are still the best for increasing velocity since that is where the power is generated. If you could see the legs of MLB pitchers, you'll know what I'm talking about.....

[achaley07]

i do know what you are talking about but what better way to work your legs than to use them and dont get me wrong i do squats and other leg excersizes as well but they just dont seem to compare.

[korp]

Well that is true like running up hills and things of that nature are good ... but weights give you an accelerated version of this. Running will also help your other areas so it should not be overlooked ... but its true major league players legs are huge because they power everything ... swings, running, pitching, jumping everything!.