End of an innocence

[RagArm]

When you are a parent there are "eras" or "phases" to raising them. You help them learn to walk, eat by themselves, give themselves a bath or shower, ride a bike, stay over at a friends house, potty train, how to do homework, how to deal with mean schoolmates, how to fight back, being a good friend, how to win and how to lose, doing chores, etc. Not in that order.

In addition to all that there are activities, which play various roles in a young persons life. In addition to coaching my kid's teams I also instruct them as many parents would take their kids to an independent instructor. I primarily do pitching, catching and hitting in baseball depending on your level but I also did QB until my son went into 8th grade. I've known for a long time that at some point there was a good possibility I wouldn't be able to properly instruct my son because of standard father/child things. He's a teenager and I can't get him to do some things that he should be doing as a hitter. Minor stuff like small hand adjustments and hip/hands timing. Nothing major, but it has consequences.

So.... tonight he is going to his first instructor other them myself. He's gone to small camps with transient instruction but this guy will be his instructor (if he does well) all the way through high school.

I'm happy for him and for me. But I'm having a hard time dealing with it.

[TG Coach]

When you are a parent there are "eras" or "phases" to raising them. You help them learn to walk, eat by themselves, give themselves a bath or shower, ride a bike, stay over at a friends house, potty train, how to do homework, how to deal with mean schoolmates, how to fight back, being a good friend, how to win and how to lose, doing chores, etc. Not in that order.

In addition to all that there are activities, which play various roles in a young persons life. In addition to coaching my kid's teams I also instruct them as many parents would take their kids to an independent instructor. I primarily do pitching, catching and hitting in baseball depending on your level but I also did QB until my son went into 8th grade. I've known for a long time that at some point there was a good possibility I wouldn't be able to properly instruct my son because of standard father/child things. He's a teenager and I can't get him to do some things that he should be doing as a hitter. Minor stuff like small hand adjustments and hip/hands timing. Nothing major, but it has consequences.

So.... tonight he is going to his first instructor other them myself. He's gone to small camps with transient instruction but this guy will be his instructor (if he does well) all the way through high school.

I'm happy for him and for me. But I'm having a hard time dealing with it.

I made one change this year. I no longer head coach and make no attempt to influence the lineup as an assistant. My son knows if he screws up he doesn't have the benefit of the doubt from me he'll start.

While starting isn't an issue his game has gone up a notch just on the fear of not starting. It keeps him on his toes. If I see something wrong he listens when I talk. The situation has given him a great mental edge heading into high school ball.

[RagArm]

Similarly, I'm not the head coach anymore but still a position coach. I've been trying to get away from it but always seem to be pulled back in. I've been wanting to just help him prepare and not be on him each practice and game. I feel I can help him better by not being so "close".

The instructor I take him to has similar methods as I have and knows what our high school coach teaches. He will be hearing the same things he already knows from a different perspective. He's probably overdue for that.

[Jake Patterson]

I am now coaching with my youngest son... As one door closes another opens...

[RagArm]

My daughter is seven now. Similar situation. I've definately learned tons working with my son, reading here and other places, etc. and should be a better instructor to her then with my son.

[9'sDad]

I stopped being her Team's coach a couple of years ago and became "her" coach, if you get what I mean. It occured to me then that she kind of got neglected. Now when she plays I only have to watch her. In addition to her team practices we have Daddy & daughter practices. I like it much better this way.

[RagArm]

I stopped being her Team's coach a couple of years ago and became "her" coach, if you get what I mean. It occured to me then that she kind of got neglected. Now when she plays I only have to watch her. In addition to her team practices we have Daddy & daughter practices. I like it much better this way.

I tried that several years ago but the team never had a good pitcher and catcher's coach. Rather then let someone do a poor job I would step in. Then when myself and some other dads put together his current traveling team at age 10 I was locked in. I didn't want to step back and leave the responsibility to the other coaches when they already had enough to do. So.... I always coached the positions my son played.

[RagArm]

The main instructor my son is using now is Ted Mills. But who else was there? Micky McGuire. That's right.

[wogdoggy]

I am now coaching with my youngest son... As one door closes another opens...



Good for you jake!:thumbsup:

[Sparksdale]

I know longer coach my boy. I think there comes a time when, as a parent, you have to remember that it isn't about you (the parent). It's about the child. For my boy, it was best that another coach coaches him. I miss coaching but I really love seeing my boy do better.

I promise you, when you watch your child grow into a better player (and I'm not talking just skills, I"m talking about attitude and how to play the game the right way) you will be happy.

The main thing, is always ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS, go to his games and all practices. I can't tell you the number of kids I see that are dropped off at games or their parents never attend practice. I know many parents have jobs which prevent them from attending their child's sporting events, but most of the parents I've come in contact with simply did not take an interest in their child's sporting events.

Believe me, when your child is playing they will look around to see where you are sitting. I have a little thing with my boy, every time he is playing and he looks at me I smile and give him the thumbs up EVEN IF HE MAKES AN ERROR. Always always always support your child.

Best of luck
Sparks

[TG Coach]

I know longer coach my boy. I think there comes a time when, as a parent, you have to remember that it isn't about you (the parent). It's about the child. For my boy, it was best that another coach coaches him. I miss coaching but I really love seeing my boy do better.

I promise you, when you watch your child grow into a better player (and I'm not talking just skills, I"m talking about attitude and how to play the game the right way) you will be happy.

The main thing, is always ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS, go to his games and all practices. I can't tell you the number of kids I see that are dropped off at games or their parents never attend practice. I know many parents have jobs which prevent them from attending their child's sporting events, but most of the parents I've come in contact with simply did not take an interest in their child's sporting events.

Believe me, when your child is playing they will look around to see where you are sitting. I have a little thing with my boy, every time he is playing and he looks at me I smile and give him the thumbs up EVEN IF HE MAKES AN ERROR. Always always always support your child.

Best of luck
Sparks

Why is it important to go to practices? My parents never did. If I'm not coaching the team I've always dropped them off. It's their time, not mine. It's time for the coaches to have the players focus. As a coach I've kicked parents out of practice who can't refrain from talking to their kids, coaching from the sidelines and/or get on their kids for making errors in practice.

A kid should never look around for his parents during the game. He should focus on the game. A player looking for approval or disapproval in mid game is not a focused, concentrating player. The kids I knew who did this as little kids still do it as 8th graders. Except it looks pathetic now.

[RagArm]

It's never been about me, and the reason I continued to coach was because it was about HIM and the other kids, and the need for a good instructor at his position. To allow someone who didn't understand what to do would have been a dis-service. Part of what I do is I own some sports facilities and I give instruction myself to certain kids. That in itself doesn't make me automatically qualified but I'm capable for the most part.

Sending him to another instructor (at another facility) was more about kicking him out of the nest to allow him to blossom (as you mentioned) from a fresh set of eyes from a someone that is not "dad".

And yes, I go to everything possible. I coach (positon coach) his traveling team, help coach (my wife is the assistent coach) of my daughter's coach pitch, take my daughter to her tumbling, etc. There isn't much I miss and only when there is a conflict with their schedules.

Just this past Saturday at my daughter's game it was the head coach, her husband, my wife (assistent coach), me and my son (helps when he can) all helping at the game. My son kept the hitters lined up and got the catcher ready. The other team had one coach and all the parents just watched him struggle. Eventually a mom came over to help keep the batters straight but then there was no base coaches, etc. I ended up coaching first base for him. That is not that uncommon. Sad.

[RagArm]

Why is it important to go to practices? My parents never did. If I'm not coaching the team I've always dropped them off. It's their time, not mine. It's time for the coaches to have the players focus. As a coach I've kicked parents out of practice who can't refrain from talking to their kids, coaching from the sidelines and/or get on their kids for making errors in practice.

A kid should never look around for his parents during the game. He should focus on the game. A player looking for approval or disapproval in mid game is not a focused, concentrating player. The kids I knew who did this as little kids still do it as 8th graders. Except it looks pathetic now.

I like for the parents to be at practices, or in the general area, in rec leagues until they are about 10 years old. Busted heads, etc. are the reason. After that I don't care as long as they are there a bit early to pick them up and get any information I needed to hand out.

As far as kids looking off the field, it depends on the reason and frequency. If they look off the field on a constant basis of they can't operate then it's an issue. When a player makes a good play and the parents are cheering I don't mind that they look over for a wave. Happens all the time.

And... the coaching from the sidelines thing is something we squash right away. I hate that.

[Jake Patterson]

It's never been about me, and the reason I continued to coach was because it was about HIM and the other kids, and the need for a good instructor at his position.

Like the players themselves I think you should coach until you run out of talent. The problem is many coaches either do not recognize the need to improve themselves or they continue to coach beyond their talent level.
Jake

[TG Coach]

Like the players themselves I think you should coach until you run out of talent. The problem is many coaches either do not recognize the need to improve themselves or they continue to coach beyond their talent level.
Jake

Unfortunately for some kids their dad never played past LL, think they learned the game off TV, don't understand basic fundamentals, don't know the rules and rattle off the same tired cliches their LL coach yelled incorrectly.

There's a kid on my son's middle school team who could be a good player. But from tee ball to now, except for school he has always played for his father. The kid is so lacking in fundamentals, does a lot of things incorrectly and has little field presense.

At middle school games the dad will yell at umps. Then I tell him that's a MLB rule, not a school rule, the rule changed five years ago or that's not a rule, it's a myth. He's so clueless. His kid has paid the price developmentally.

[Sparksdale]

TG,

I can see both sides. Our team, like most teams, have the dads who yell instructions to the coach. Personally, I hate it. I would never tell my boy to do something during the game, that is the coaches job.
We had a kid just yesterday try out for our team. This kid looks like a very good player but I swear when he got up to bat his dad would not shut up. It was aweful....

I can remember when I played ball....I always looked around to see where my dad was sitting. I can tell you there is a comfort level there that no coach can ever fill. Just seeing your dad (or mom or family) in the stands is a wonderful thing. It shows the child that you support him/her and that you care enough to take time out of your life for THEM.

I coached for two years and my boy had a problem with another boy. Well the problem got out of hand and of course the father calls me. He goes into a rampage about this and that and I talk nice and calm and tell him everything will be ok. Well wouldn't you know it, we weren't five minutes into the conversation when he brings up his son playing ball on my team. Long story short is his boy played for me but quit playing three times. Each time I would let the boy back on the team. Finally his boy quit for good and never came back.
His dad started yelling to me on the phone that I was the worst coach he had ever seen and there was no way he was going to let his boy play for me. I simply asked the father this....where were you? He never came to his games and never to one single practice. The President of our local LL came to me and told me they could not find a coach for the team and that if I didn't agree to coach then our boys would not have a team. So I stepped up and did the best I could. Our team won more games than they lost and I'm pretty sure they all had fun. I let most every kid play different positions.

I kills me, this dad was jumping all over me when I had spent a lot of my own money and dozens of hours trying to make sure the kids had a team to play. Yet this dad, who never came to a practice jumps all over me.

Not every coach can be a great coach, not every player can be a great player. In the end I think LL coaches must make sure the kids have fun and simply do their best.

Bottom line, I think parents should support their kids and that means TELLING THE KIDS TO LISTEN TO THEIR COACH AND NOT YELLING INSTRUCTIONS. I've never missed a practice or a game that my boy has been in and God willing I never will. I've been there for his first homerun and when he struck out. In the end he always knows that I am their for him. So when he is having a good day or a bad day during a game and glances up at the stands and he can see me smiling with my thumbs up. I feel sorry for kids who are playing in a game and they look in the stands and no one is there to root for them. Of course jobs get in the way but I bet most of the time parents could take a few hours out of their week to spend time with their kids.

Oh, and the father who yelled at me about his son playing.... his boy has already been caughts steeling and does not play any sports. From what I hear he is in trouble all the time and so far is going down the wrong path in life. I tried to help this kid all I could but there is only so much I can do.

Sparks

[Sparksdale]

Unfortunately for some kids their dad never played past LL, think they learned the game off TV, don't understand basic fundamentals, don't know the rules and rattle off the same tired cliches their LL coach yelled incorrectly.

This is one problem I have when people judge other coaches (I'm talking about in the LL and under level). LL coaches do not get paid, the spend dozens of ours of their own time (while holding down a full time job) and usually, as in my case, several hundred dollars of their own money. Most of these coaches are doing the best they can. All the while a father/mother is yelling the coach doesn't know what they are doing. My goodness, I don't see that mother/father who is doing all the yelling giving their time to these kids.

I say cut these LL coaches some slack. Try to understand that they are doing the very best they can. Hey, if they were better coaches they would be getting paid to coach a HS team somewhere.
When I was forced to coach I had a meeting with all the parents (the ones that bothered to show up) and all my players. The first thing I said to the players was that I was sorry. I told them I that they deserved a better coach than me but there simply wasn't any one else able to coach. I told them they were stuck with me but I would give them 100% of my time. All I asked from the kids was that they would try and hustle. I promised if everyone played hard I would make sure that every kid on the team got to pitch at least once during the season.
That team finished with 9 wins and 5 losses. The last game of the season I let every single kid pitch and at the start of every inning I let every kid play another position. I don't remember the score on that game, I think we lost 20 to 5 or something like that but boy oh boy the kids had a blast. I bet they had more fun that last game of the season than they had ever had. As a matter of fact, I had one kid on my team who had never gotten a hit in baseball (it was his second year of playing). I'll be darn if he didn't get two hits in that game. You should have heard all of us, when he got his first hit you would have thought he'd hit a grand slam in the World Series.

When I coached LL I had to buy my own balls and catching equipment and I always supplied the team with water and drinks. A bag of ice cost $1.50 where I live and if you do that three times a week it adds up. I did the very best I could and I have nothing to be ashamed up. Yes, there are far better coaching than me but at least I was willing to give my time to the kids. That's far more than I can say for many people who call the coach and complain in the stands.

Sparks

[RagArm]

Unfortunately for some kids their dad never played past LL, think they learned the game off TV, don't understand basic fundamentals, don't know the rules and rattle off the same tired cliches their LL coach yelled incorrectly.

There's a kid on my son's middle school team who could be a good player. But from tee ball to now, except for school he has always played for his father. The kid is so lacking in fundamentals, does a lot of things incorrectly and has little field presense.

At middle school games the dad will yell at umps. Then I tell him that's a MLB rule, not a school rule, the rule changed five years ago or that's not a rule, it's a myth. He's so clueless. His kid has paid the price developmentally.

I see lots of coaches like this but if they didn't step up to the plate and volunteer, there wouldn't be many teams out there especially in the rec programs. I myself found myself in a situation where I was coaching soccer, something I know very little about. Even though I did some reading, watched videos, etc. I know I didn't teach those kids many skills but I did treat them right and was fair with them. I wish there would have been a more qualified person to step in but none would. So I did it. I remember that year and try to give other coaches the same consideration that those parents gave me.

[RagArm]

Unfortunately for some kids their dad never played past LL, think they learned the game off TV, don't understand basic fundamentals, don't know the rules and rattle off the same tired cliches their LL coach yelled incorrectly.

There's a kid on my son's middle school team who could be a good player. But from tee ball to now, except for school he has always played for his father. The kid is so lacking in fundamentals, does a lot of things incorrectly and has little field presense.

At middle school games the dad will yell at umps. Then I tell him that's a MLB rule, not a school rule, the rule changed five years ago or that's not a rule, it's a myth. He's so clueless. His kid has paid the price developmentally.

This is one problem I have when people judge other coaches (I'm talking about in the LL and under level). LL coaches do not get paid, the spend dozens of ours of their own time (while holding down a full time job) and usually, as in my case, several hundred dollars of their own money. Most of these coaches are doing the best they can. All the while a father/mother is yelling the coach doesn't know what they are doing. My goodness, I don't see that mother/father who is doing all the yelling giving their time to these kids.

I say cut these LL coaches some slack. Try to understand that they are doing the very best they can. Hey, if they were better coaches they would be getting paid to coach a HS team somewhere.
When I was forced to coach I had a meeting with all the parents (the ones that bothered to show up) and all my players. The first thing I said to the players was that I was sorry. I told them I that they deserved a better coach than me but there simply wasn't any one else able to coach. I told them they were stuck with me but I would give them 100% of my time. All I asked from the kids was that they would try and hustle. I promised if everyone played hard I would make sure that every kid on the team got to pitch at least once during the season.
That team finished with 9 wins and 5 losses. The last game of the season I let every single kid pitch and at the start of every inning I let every kid play another position. I don't remember the score on that game, I think we lost 20 to 5 or something like that but boy oh boy the kids had a blast. I bet they had more fun that last game of the season than they had ever had. As a matter of fact, I had one kid on my team who had never gotten a hit in baseball (it was his second year of playing). I'll be darn if he didn't get two hits in that game. You should have heard all of us, when he got his first hit you would have thought he'd hit a grand slam in the World Series.

When I coached LL I had to buy my own balls and catching equipment and I always supplied the team with water and drinks. A bag of ice cost $1.50 where I live and if you do that three times a week it adds up. I did the very best I could and I have nothing to be ashamed up. Yes, there are far better coaching than me but at least I was willing to give my time to the kids. That's far more than I can say for many people who call the coach and complain in the stands.

Sparks

Exactly. Atta boy Sparks.

[TG Coach]

TG,


We had a kid just yesterday try out for our team. This kid looks like a very good player but I swear when he got up to bat his dad would not shut up. It was aweful....

End of tryout. Thanks for coming. We'll call you.



I've never missed a practice or a game that my boy has been in and God willing I never will. Sparks

You will miss practices. When he gets older most coaches won't want you around as a potential distraction. Your son will glare at you for staying and invading his space. My daughter's high school softball coach officially banned parents from practice. And I can't imagine any parent having the nerve to walk into the gym for indoor practices of any sport. The times I've been at the field thirty minutes before middle school practice is over, I'm the only parent there. No one watches. The kids don't want them there. It's their space. I park across the street so my son doesn't see me. Besides, practices are mostly boring to watch.

[RagArm]

I had to wean myself off practices. I coached my son in everything until he went to 7th grade football. At the start of the year parents were everywhere and then it tailed off. In 8th grade a few were there when they arrived early to pick them up and would watch. I would show up early on occasion and watch. My son never had an issue with it.

For our traveling baseball some parents will hang out in the parking lot and chat with each other while we practice. We have had a few over the years hang out at the field and offer advice to their kids while practice is going on but a quick "Hey, we got this" or a "It's best if they only hear it from us" took care of it. Most parents aren't aware that they should really be quiet and if they are going to stay, give the kids some space. In the rec program when my son was younger and my daughter is currently at the parents hang out in the bleachers and stay quiet. No problems.

A few traveling teams in our leagues don't allow parents. They can't officially keep them out but the parents comply for the most part.

[Sparksdale]

End of tryout. Thanks for coming. We'll call you.



You will miss practices. When he gets older most coaches won't want you around as a potential distraction. Your son will glare at you for staying and invading his space. It's their space. I park across the street so my son doesn't see me. Besides, practices are mostly boring to watch.

As far as the kid who tried out yesterday? Why punish the child for what the father was doing? The kid looks like a great player and I can't see how we would be doing the child any good if we didn't let him on the team because of his father.

As far as me missing practices? My boy is 11. I don't know what will happen when he is 12 or 22. For now I will support him and go to all practices and all games. If there comes a time when his coach tells me I can't watch my boy practice then I'll have to think about if I want my boy on that team,I'll cross that bridge when it comes. Again, my boy is 11 so maybe when he gets older he will not want me there (God I hope that never happens).

Sparks

[TG Coach]

As far as the kid who tried out yesterday? Why punish the child for what the father was doing? The kid looks like a great player and I can't see how we would be doing the child any good if we didn't let him on the team because of his father.

It's a travel team. It's a priviledge not a right to be on a travel team. Chemistry is very important. Chemistry comes in two flavors: 1) What goes on in the dugout which the parents are not part of. When a parent coaches from the sideline he's interferring with that chemistry. 2) Chemistry between the parents. From experience (travel softball for eight years, travel baseball for six year) the parents who coach from the stands usually aren't much better spending a season on the sidelines with the parents. They either drive parents crazy, divide the parents or undermine the coaching staff to other parents with their "expertise."

When a player wasn't invited back the following season the parents thanked the coaches for not inviting the parents back. The kid had become irrelevant. No kid is that good. One year only two mothers sat in the stands. They had divided the team parents so badly the other parents sat in lawn chairs dispearsed around the field.

If there comes a time when his coach tells me I can't watch my boy practice then I'll have to think about if I want my boy on that team,I'll cross that bridge when it comes.
Sparks

When it's a middle school or high school coach are you going to pull your son from the team or think about it for about two seconds before deciding it's the coaches team?

[TG Coach]

I see lots of coaches like this but if they didn't step up to the plate and volunteer, there wouldn't be many teams out there especially in the rec programs. I myself found myself in a situation where I was coaching soccer, something I know very little about. Even though I did some reading, watched videos, etc. I know I didn't teach those kids many skills but I did treat them right and was fair with them. I wish there would have been a more qualified person to step in but none would. So I did it. I remember that year and try to give other coaches the same consideration that those parents gave me.

The person I referenced got his foot in the door in tee ball and never got pushed out by the good 'ole boy network. There were very qualified coaches with baseball experience sitting in the stands because they lacked league tenure. Of course if you're never asked to coach, you can't get any tenure.

[RagArm]

The person I referenced got his foot in the door in tee ball and never got pushed out by the good 'ole boy network. There were very qualified coaches with baseball experience sitting in the stands because they lacked league tenure. Of course if you're never asked to coach, you can't get any tenure.

In our rec league if you put your name on the paper saying you are willing you are sucked right up. At about the age of 10 a good coach will take a group of players and go play traveling. Usually another good coach goes with him/her and many of the parents that have the better players would also be good rec coaches. So in the end you have the volunteers.

Sounds like your league is a bit different. Is it Little League?

[rich]

Our parent handbook: " There will be absolutely no coaching from the stands. All coaching will come from the coaches on the field. Unless there's a family emergency you may not call your child out of the dugout to speak to him. If there is coaching from the stands I will remove that player from the game and he can sit with you and you can coach him all you want. This rule will be strictly enforced! " Also, " All concerns about playing time will come from the PLAYER. If any parent questions a coach about their child's playing time it will result in a five game suspension. I am trying to teach the player to stand up for themselves." We haven't had to impose either entering year 3. Our first 13 & 14 year old American Legion games are today. Our 14 year old squad finished 3rd in the 2006 Babe Ruth World Series representing the Mid- Atlantic region. We have implemented having no parent's coaching in our 13,14 & 15 travel program. I'm in for my 3rd year with the 14's & #1 son plays for the 13's

[Drill]

Its hard for me to sit back and keep my mouth shut during the game. My son catches and I keep score. This is my last year being near the dug out. Next year when he goes to the big field I will be a distant observer.

I found out this year if he acts lazy and a ball gets by all I have to say is "you got to stop those" He got that angry look in he eyes and picked his game up. This tactic I only used once this year.

I can't will not coach my son unless he ask me for help. Even than I do what I can but I tell him he is beyond my coaching ability. (which he is) I have two private coaches that are college coaches, who work with him when the other is not available. They both teach the catching position and hitting. One of them teaches agility and speed. As specialized as training has gotten, there is no way I would be able to teach speed training, let alone all there is to the catching position.


Yes there comes a time when the evil stares and the shortness in a father son relationship has to progress to another level also. And that I feel for me is treating my son like a young man.

They grow up fast.

drill

[TG Coach]

In our rec league if you put your name on the paper saying you are willing you are sucked right up. At about the age of 10 a good coach will take a group of players and go play traveling. Usually another good coach goes with him/her and many of the parents that have the better players would also be good rec coaches. So in the end you have the volunteers.

Sounds like your league is a bit different. Is it Little League?

It was LL. LL is a big deal here. No one leaves LL for travel. There is just enough coaching at the top to make the all-star program a perennial district contender at every level. A majority of the kids played some level of travel around LL.

[rich]

Drill....props from here. You can work with your son all darn week but...if you want him to roll to a hire level...let someone break his cull-yoons ( right or wrong)...you'll see that has to happen if he's going to play at a higher level ( Any kind of college). Keep in mind I'm prejudiced....we have all former Replacement player's/D 1 guys " Teaching" & coaching who have no boys playing. It's like breathing a refreshing ocean air breeze.

[Ursa Major]

By the time kids get to HS ball, there's no reason for parents to be there. But up through 11u rec ball (and maybe 13u), why not include the parents in practices? That way you have control over them (rather than having them yell from the sidelines) and, ferhevvinsake, it's one of the last times their kid will hang with them publicly before they become t e e n a g e r s. There are a zillion drills where you can get parents involved. At least let them catch return throws for the fungo hitters, or go find foul ball hit into the bushes. Why treat them like pariahs so that the players are disdainful of them as well?

Sparks, I agree that one should be appreciative for coaches -- skilled or not -- who are willing to take on your kids welfare for no cost for many hours per week. If the coaches don't know the game, you can try to do an end run around them and teach the kid on your own the right way to do things, and hope the coach is too ignorant to realize you've done so. But you better make sure you DO know more than the coach.

But you shouldn't rag on even bad coaches. What do you gain? My son had a summer rec ball coach two years ago who disagreed with me on everything imaginable about coaching, but on technique and how you treated kids (he belittled them to try to goad them into improving). But, he was the boss and I gave him my ideas and otherwise bit my tongue. The only time I vented -- and even then I was calm -- was when my son and I cut short a family camping trip and drove like crazy for four hours to return for a playoff game, and my son didn't get into play at all. (Our municipal rec league rules didn't have a minimum playing time component during the playoffs.) I'd called him two days before that game from the nearest town to confirm the scheduling, so he knew we were coming down just for that game, and he coulda said, "We'll get along without your boy for this game; enjoy your vacation." That honked me off. :grouchy

Rich, I agree that it should be kids and not parents who should approach the manager about playing time -- at least by the time they're, say, 10. But you can't expect an 8 year old to ask why he's stuck in the outfield every game. Parents can have some role -- but at your level (13 - 14 year olds), it should be the kids who do their own advocacy. What parents CAN teach is this, "You wanna play more? Don't go begging to the coach. Put down the g$#@$mn XBox controller and go out and take some batting practice and PROVE you belong in the lineup."

But I think there may be some room for parental coaching from the sidelines, although it's the exception. In his first three years, Ursa Minor had two basic batting stances: one passive and one where you could just tell he was aggressive. If he walked into the batter's box with with Stance #1, I could tell with absolute certainty that he either would not swing or would swing lamely and not get the ball past the pitcher. If I yelled out a prearranged cue to tweak his aggressiveness, the chances of making contact increased to about 40%. As he finally improved to the point where's he now a .300 hitter, I told him that his reward was that I would finally shut up.

And it's not just me. We have a chubby, non-athletic kid on our team with attention issues. Why he even wanted to play amazes me. But, if he gets his hands up and back his whole physical approach changes and he's strong enough to reach the outfield if he makes contact, which he'll do most of the time. If his hands drop, he chops down on the ball and he strikes out 80% of the time. His father's deputized to remind him about his hands during his at-bat, and it helps. And, sometimes kids' stances will just go haywire from one at-bat to the next without them realizing it; it doesn't hurt to remind them of something that's obvious (like, say, they're too far from the plate). But, if the coaches genuinely feel that it's a distraction and not a help, they should talk to the parent without penalizing the player. But I think it's lame to make any parent contact during games and practices a no-no.

You can't always count on the coaches to be helping the players during the game. My son is the best bunter on his team, and so he checks with the manager on every pitch during his at-bat to see if there's some kind of play on. But as often as not, the manager is jawing with the umpire, or the first baseman, or the opposing coach, and forgets to give a sign, much less notice something about technique.

And, I worry about a "no parents" at practices rule. Jake and I have discussed some of these types of issues, and you're entering a danger area -- particularly with girl athletes and male coaches. We had a famous case here where a gymnastics coach insisted that, during out-of-town trips, parents could not even stay in the same hotel as the gymnasts to avoid distractions from them. This all came out when, you guessed it, the coach was prosecuted for allegedly molesting one of the girls, with this rule coming up as evidence against the coach.

[Jake Patterson]

Ursa, good post...

I disagree only with the timing..
By the time kids get to HS ball, there's no reason for parents to be there.
I would say this should start at MS ball. When I coached HS I asked the parents not to be there and never had an issue.

[TG Coach]

But I think there may be some room for parental coaching from the sidelines, although it's the exception.

1) It's disrespecful to the coach. 2) If you let the kid fail on his own he'll learn faster. He'll get tired of failing.

Here's a story on not coaching from the sidelines. My son comes up for his first all-star at-bat. He's standing and waving his bat like Gary Sheffield. I mutter to myself, "What the hell is that?" But I didn't yell out anything. I told a friend/teammate's dad after he fails I wanted him to yell something before the next at-bat. I will not yell out to my kids during a game.

My son hit a one hop rocket off the fence for a double. When he came up the second time the friend asked me what I wanted him to yell out. I told him, "Go Sheffield!" With a first time stance that looked awkward to me, he hit a double to the fence, a triple off the fence in the corner, and a homer that cleared the maintenance shed behind the fence.

Four years later in 14U his hands are still up there. He decided on his own to open his stance a bit. From eleven on I never told my son how to stand. A few times after tough games I told him what he did wrong. This year when he swings improperly he knows what he did wrong. I believe it's because I never coached or cued him during games. He had to learn.

How has this helped him? He's been invited to the varsity summer workouts heading into his freshman year in a school in the large school classification. It doesn't mean he's going to make varsity as a freshman. It does mean he's on the radar screen. At worst he'll skip freshman ball to start JV.

My advice: Don't hold your kid's hand by coaching from the sideline. Let him fail. He'll learn faster.

[RagArm]

Ursa, good post...

I disagree only with the timing..

I would say this should start at MS ball. When I coached HS I asked the parents not to be there and never had an issue.

If there is a school team. In our area only a few middle schools have teams.

I think when kids get to 7th grade is a time when I would feel comfortable with a coach saying that he wants practices to be closed. Depending.

[rich]

Good posts fellas. I don't think you have to close practices. In fact, we usually roll out a 4 hour practice once a year ( with a lunch break) to see if any parent is willing to watch a boring practice for that duration. I think they get the hint...nobody stays. The " Sheffield" thing is funny. When my son was eight he did the Sheff thing. Next thing you know the whole squad was doing it & the coach got upset. Pretty funny.

[RagArm]

Our team and another that we are buddies with have told the parents that this year's focus was to prepare them high school baseball next year. For the other team that meant closing practice in a "we would prefer parents to not attend" manner though the ones that stay are out in the parking lot beyond left field fence much like our parents have opted to do.

It is going to be very difficult to not do any coaching from the stands next year when he is a freshman because currently, I am the position coach that handles two things he does. I know his every twitch.

BUT.... since I know he needs to learn from others is why I took him to the other hitting instructor and is what lead to this thread. After football is over he will also see a catching coach to make sure he's doing the things he needs to do that I may have overlooked.

I asked the ass't varsity coach what us prior coaching do when their kids get to the freshman level. He said "You all go down left field line, huddle up, and complain about what we are doing." Then he laughed because he knows how hard it is to "turn it off" after coaching a kid for years.

Handing him to someone else and me just being secondary (or third-ary) is going to be good for him. I even expect the time we spend together to be more productive.

[Ursa Major]

I disagree only with the timing..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursa Major
By the time kids get to HS ball, there's no reason for parents to be there.
I would say this should start at MS ball. When I coached HS I asked the parents not to be there and never had an issue.Jake, I was setting out something of an outside time limit. Certainly, in interscholastic ball -- even at the middle school level, you have paid and vetted coaches who have a job to do and the parents shouldn't be involved for a host of reasons (starting with potential liability issues). Rec ball where you have essentially self-appointed parents coaching the team MAY justify greater parental involvement, depending on the relative skill level of the coach and parent and the kid's particular needs.

TGCoach, we've all had those moments where we've bitten our tongues and our kids have come through. And, I sense from your many posts that your kids have some nice physical gifts that have been developed with your skill and knowledge of the game. My son has few raw physical gifts and does not have the great body sense that seems to allow some other kids to pick up a bat or racquet or whatever and seeimingly instantly have a feel for what to do, as well as getting body feedback for what doesn't work. For these kids, you sometimes just have to drill mechanics until the "right" technique for them becomes natural, and what feedback they can achieve kicks in. But these kids can also lose their way easily, and the only way to get them back on track may well be to have a quick reminder cue like: "square your stance", "get your hands back", etc.

Yes, kids will experiment with new stances and the like. Ursa Minor does all the time when we practice, and I let him try. Sometimes it even gives him a new 'feel' that helps out. But when they do something in the middle of a playoff game that you already know has been tried and is doomed to failure (like dropping hands), then a reminder between pitches might be in order, depending on the kid.

It's a tough call to make on everything from hitting to nagging about homework: "If I shut up and he/she fails, am I doing a greater favor than if I intercede and the short term result is better?" I plead guilty to charges of getting too involved -- who wants to see a kid fail? I appreciate your guidance on that point.

Yes, the Sheffield thing is an epidemic, but, because it's a pre-swing idiosyncracy, is not necessarily a problem. (Although I've often seen a mediocre fastball blow by such kids because they don't do what Gary does, and stop the dang waggle before it's time for them to go into their launch.) It may keep a kid loose at the plate. But if done as excessively as he does, iccckkkk! (Three players who should be blacked out during television games: Gary Sheffield, Chad Bradford, and Craig Counsel.)

[TG Coach]

I asked the ass't varsity coach what us prior coaching do when their kids get to the freshman level. He said "You all go down left field line, huddle up, and complain about what we are doing." Then he laughed because he knows how hard it is to "turn it off" after coaching a kid for years.


LOL This is so true. And parents think they're fooling the coaches.

[TG Coach]

It's a tough call to make on everything from hitting to nagging about homework: "If I shut up and he/she fails, am I doing a greater favor than if I intercede and the short term result is better?" I plead guilty to charges of getting too involved -- who wants to see a kid fail? I appreciate your guidance on that point.

Yes, the Sheffield thing is an epidemic, but, because it's a pre-swing idiosyncracy, is not necessarily a problem. (Although I've often seen a mediocre fastball blow by such kids because they don't do what Gary does, and stop the dang waggle before it's time for them to go into their launch.) It may keep a kid loose at the plate. But if done as excessively as he does, iccckkkk! (Three players who should be blacked out during television games: Gary Sheffield, Chad Bradford, and Craig Counsel.)

My son has tamed down the waggle to a level of comfort for him. As for school I've let my kids fail at school too. I got tired of procrastination and let them each fail a project. That was a tough night of wailing "I don't want to fail." But, it never happened again. They're great students, but procrastination is a bad habit. Especially when you know it's one of your own bad habits. My kids aren't supposed to be like me. They're supposed to be better.

[scorekeeper]

As far as the kid who tried out yesterday? Why punish the child for what the father was doing? The kid looks like a great player and I can't see how we would be doing the child any good if we didn't let him on the team because of his father.

As far as me missing practices? My boy is 11. I don't know what will happen when he is 12 or 22. For now I will support him and go to all practices and all games. If there comes a time when his coach tells me I can't watch my boy practice then I'll have to think about if I want my boy on that team,I'll cross that bridge when it comes. Again, my boy is 11 so maybe when he gets older he will not want me there (God I hope that never happens).

Sparks

Don’tcha just love it when the wonderful, smart coaches tell you how you should coach and how you should think? Whatsamattawityou? Don’t you understand that everything is about the coaches and the parents. IOW the adults?

The thing I find repulsive about such people is, they won’t even attempt to do something that will try to help a kid like that. the assumption is that the parent is a jerk and not only will do nothing but cause trouble, the kid is a jerk too and certainly not worth any effort at all. And the worst part is, people like that are constantly saying how he game is about the kid, not the parent.

This won’t earn you any points, but IMHO, you should go to every possible practice and game now, because there will come a time, if he continues to play, that you won’t be able to.

As far as the coaches who like to show their great power by excluding parents from practices, call BS on them! Their team? When the coach pays for everything, that’s when it becomes HIS team!

If, as a parent you choose not to allow your son to participate on a team what has a coach who’s so much into himself that he ha has to keep parents away, I say you’re very likely doing the correct thing. Think about why a coach wants no scrutiny.

[Jake Patterson]

If, as a parent you choose not to allow your son to participate on a team what has a coach who’s so much into himself that he ha has to keep parents away, I say you’re very likely doing the correct thing. Think about why a coach wants no scrutiny.

The scrutiny is not an issue for me. I hold post-season coaches' evaluation meetings allowing players to evaluate the coaches. I also send an evaluation form home to the parents so they can add their two cents.

Along the lines of "The games belong to the players and the practices to the coach," I find parents at practice can be a distraction, especially in high school.

[scorekeeper]

The scrutiny is not an issue for me. I hold post-season coaches' evaluation meetings allowing players to evaluate the coaches. I also send an evaluation form home to the parents so they can add their two cents.

I really like the idea of allowing the coaching staff to be evaluated by the participants, and make no mistake about it, the parents are participants.

Along the lines of "The games belong to the players and the practices to the coach," I find parents at practice can be a distraction, especially in high school.

The operative word in that sentence is, CAN. That's a far cry from ARE. I have no problem at all with distractions being removed whether they are parents, the AD, or the girls softball team. ;-) But to ASSUME out of hand that every parent is gonna be a problem seems pretty stupid to me, and I don’t consider you a stupid person.

I’m gonna take a wild guess and say that you prolly tell everyone at the very outset, in the team pamphlet, or at the team meeting, that you don’t want distractions at practices, and if that happens, the people becoming distractive won’t be welcome. That’s far different than assuming that everyone will be a distraction.

When my son’s coach tried to ban everyone from practices, I didn’t holler and scream, but I did tell the principal that I didn’t appreciate being labeled a distraction before it happened. Turns out that I had attended every practice my son attended on the Fr team and the JV team, and both coaches signed statements that I had never done anything more distracting than to sit in my chair and pick up an occasional errant ball that came in my direction. The principal decided that as long as parents didn’t do anything more distracting than that, there was no reason to ban them from the fields, and I never did.

[TG Coach]

The thing I find repulsive about such people is, they won’t even attempt to do something that will try to help a kid like that. the assumption is that the parent is a jerk and not only will do nothing but cause trouble, the kid is a jerk too and certainly not worth any effort at all. And the worst part is, people like that are constantly saying how he game is about the kid, not the parent.

Tournament travel parents become a family. The parents spend entire weekend days together. A PITA parent can tear a team apart and cost the team players when the parents no longer want to deal with the situation. No one kid is worth it.


As far as the coaches who like to show their great power by excluding parents from practices, call BS on them! Their team? When the coach pays for everything, that’s when it becomes HIS team!

If, as a parent you choose not to allow your son to participate on a team what has a coach who’s so much into himself that he ha has to keep parents away, I say you’re very likely doing the correct thing. Think about why a coach wants no scrutiny.

Remember folks, when the high school coach tells you he doesn't want parents at practice, yank your kid from the team. That will show the coach! Don't forget to complain to the AD the coach doesn't want you at practice, so when the AD gets in the middle of it and your kid rejoins the team, the coach feels so compelled to give him playing time.

There are some situations where coaches need to be checked due to abusive behavior. But 99% of the time it's none of the parents damn business to be at practice in high school. And in most cases, your kid doesn't want you there. He doesn't want you in his space. But hey, what the hell, cruise into the locker room too. It's your right.

I'm a travel coach. If parents don't like the environment they can vote with their feet and wallet. It hasn't happened yet. I've only had parents complain when their kids didn't make the team the next year despite how big of idiots the coaches were the year before for not playing their kid more.

Add: SK keep is speaking from the experience of having never been a coach and having to deal with parents. I'm sorry SK, parents bugging the scorekeeper over hit and errors isn't the same. And I've seen you comment on the clueless, PITA parents in this regard. Now why is the coach's perspective different?

[Drill]

My son is in seventh grade going up to eight grade and his birthday is at the end of Aug. which put him behind a year when it comes to going up to the big field in LL ball(hence transitional coach). All-star / tourney ball this summer, Fall ball is right around the corner and thanksgiving indoor physical training/Baseball, starts for the next year. As you can tell my son loves baseball and is not forced to play he just love the game. Me as dad/ /banker./limo driver/equipment manager/trainer when it comes to injuries, has to love the game also.

In my passed post I made known that I was backing away this year and next year I will relinquish my score-keeping duties, because I am just to close to the action. Just me being that close causes space issues, and when it comes to JV practice next year it will be hard not to watch practices if that is the rule. I just love watching the whole process of playing ball. Its gotten so bad i even thought about going over and watch a summer wood bat league practice just to be around the game. My wife calls it an obsession. I may need to go to BBA (base ball anonymous) before next season starts and this board is the only place I can find help.

The last thing I want to be is a helicopter parent. I just want to watch the game but alas when it comes to letting my son grow up and be on his own if it takes cutting off watching him at practice and moving to the top level in the stands I will do it. After all this is the reason why they sell MLB pass on cable and now there is regional ball and college world series. The wood bat league just started and my son and I went to the first summer game last night. Of course he got into a pick up game of baseball behind the center field fence. (My son hit two triples from what I could tell where I was sitting, I had seats behind home-plate.)

wish me luck,

drill


ps my son confirmed on the way home after the game he hit two triples

[scorekeeper]

In my passed post I made known that I was backing away this year and next year I will relinquish my score-keeping duties, because I am just to close to the action. Just me being that close causes space issues, and when it comes to JV practice next year it will be hard not to watch practices if that is the rule. I just love watching the whole process of playing ball.

Why do you say you’re too close to the action? The only reason I can think of that you’d feel that way is that you’re one of those folks who feels compelled to cheer and otherwise say things that encourage the boy or the team.

Maybe I’m just an odd duck, but I stopped that when my boy was about 9 because I saw it bothered him. That didn’t stop me from having feelings, its just that I didn’t put them on display for everyone to see.

If you truly do just love the whole process of playing ball and like to watch, why should you be deprived of that pleasure? I can understand it if you sit at practices and never shut up, are one of those constant rah rah guys, are always walking around, or are continually trying to be “helpful”. But not all parents are like that, and that’s why I find the concept of closed practices so stupid. There are many schools where some of the neighborhood old geezers just come and sit and watch practices. All they’re doing is passing time, and no one thinks twice about them, and wouldn’t even consider telling them they had to leave. If a spectator really does become a distraction, fine! Walk up to them like an adult, explain that they are being disruptive, and ask them to either cease the disruptive behavior or leave.

Some morons really think they know everything about everyone and therefore are the experts and only ones qualified to tell you how to thing and act. Throwing numbers out like 99% as though they’ve done some scientific study and those numbers are never wrong is another trick these people use to try to manipulate others.

These are the same jerks who keep yelling and screaming about people who aren’t coaches being so stupid as to be completely incapable of comprehending much of anything about the game. It must be wonderful to feel perfect. But I find it repulsive, utterly despicable, and a sign of immaturity to continually make personal attacks and denigrate others on a WWW bulletin board.

Talk about weak character! And these are the kinds of people telling you to put your children in their charge. What are they gonna teach them?

The last thing I want to be is a helicopter parent. I just want to watch the game but alas when it comes to letting my son grow up and be on his own if it takes cutting off watching him at practice and moving to the top level in the stands I will do it. After all this is the reason why they sell MLB pass on cable and now there is regional ball and college world series. The wood bat league just started and my son and I went to the first summer game last night. Of course he got into a pick up game of baseball behind the center field fence. (My son hit two triples from what I could tell where I was sitting, I had seats behind home-plate.)

Can someone define a “helicopter parent”. Is that the same as a PITA parent, delusional parent, or disruptive parent. Can it be at all possible that there might just be some parents out there who are actually a pleasure to have around? Or can it be that the only good parents are coaches because they really know what’s happening?

Drill, I’m gonna just guess that you might be one of those parents who really should stay away from practices. Not because you’re a jerk, but because I get the impression that you love the game so much, you wouldn’t be able to just sit and watch, but would have to cheer for a good play, and prolly keep up the normal chatter one hears at games. That’s not a good thing for practices for a lot of reasons.

But, that is a fact not in evidence, and until you prove you can’t go to practices without being a distraction, why shouldn’t you be allowed to do that?

[rich]

Practice shouldn't be closed. Hey...its boring but if someone enjoys the nuances of the game & watching a team come together and jell over the course of the season then let them watch. What's the big deal? I don't even notice who is in the stands at practice.

[Drill]

My son is in seventh grade going up to eight grade and his birthday is at the end of Aug. which put him behind a year when it comes to going up to the big field in LL ball(hence transitional coach). All-star / tourney ball this summer, Fall ball is right around the corner and thanksgiving indoor physical training/Baseball, starts for the next year. As you can tell my son loves baseball and is not forced to play he just love the game. Me as dad/ /banker./limo driver/equipment manager/trainer when it comes to injuries, has to love the game also.


Look I am not an old geezer and at a young age of 56 the good Lord has seen fit to let me choose when to work. Another words I don't have to work another day in my life if I don't want to.

I am the perfect example of having to much time on my hands. Hence I have volunteered a lot of my time towards my sons activities. He is growing up and there comes a time when I need to stop Hovering around. Example, my wife teaches at the same middle school he goes to and she chaperoned the 7/8 grade dance. I asked her if she saw our son dancing and with who. She said she purposely stayed away from the dance area to give him some room. I guess baseball is the same way. Its OK for me to be around at games and maybe to watch a few practices. But I feel I just need to take more of a back seat roll, as my wife did at the dance.


I have the time and ability to follow him to college ball if he happens to make it that far. Hovering around my sons every college ball practice would be a little to much if he was ever decided to work with the talents he has to go that far.

note: he has three private positional coaches/ one of the coaches is a agility and speed coach. Only when he wants the training. I thought about this for a child of 13. Kind of made me think for a little bit, but I said what the heck let him learn the game if he wants to.

Now if he made it to major leagues I told him Dad wants a box seat in his contract. Of course there is no harm in dreaming.


--------------------------


Oh and score keeping for me right now. Score keeper needs to keep score and needs some non distraction when all the runs and plays start to happen. Its hard to sit in dug out and keep score and have kids constantly coming up to you and asking when they are up for the 3rd time in one inning and not being distracted by kids being kids. I make sure there is a line up card posted in the dug out so the kids know when they are up to bat. Let the kids have fun being kids and let the manager manage and coaches have time to coach. Let the score keeper sit out side the dug out and eat seeds and score the book.

Is my way of thinking the right way. For me and my son I feel it is. For anyone else I don't know the situation.

My definition of a helicopter parent is not knowing when to back away as a parent. Not cutting the apron strings. Of course again that is just my definition.


respectfully yours,

drill

[scorekeeper]

Look I am not an old geezer and at a young age of 56 the good Lord has seen fit to let me choose when to work. Another words I don't have to work another day in my life if I don't want to.

It sounds as though we both the victims of a pretty woman’s at around 40. ;) Although its for different reasons, I too haven’t been tethered by a job, and although I’m not wealthy, I do enjoy a degree of freedom.

I am the perfect example of having to much time on my hands. Hence I have volunteered a lot of my time towards my sons activities. He is growing up and there comes a time when I need to stop Hovering around. Example, my wife teaches at the same middle school he goes to and she chaperoned the 7/8 grade dance. I asked her if she saw our son dancing and with who. She said she purposely stayed away from the dance area to give him some room. I guess baseball is the same way. Its OK for me to be around at games and maybe to watch a few practices. But I feel I just need to take more of a back seat roll, as my wife did at the dance.

I don’t quite understand the definition of “hovering”. Perhaps its because I’ve not been one of those whoop it up rah rah guys, and just sit there and watch what’s goin’ on with little or no comment. So I don’t see sitting and watching as “hovering”.

I have the time and ability to follow him to college ball if he happens to make it that far. Hovering around my sons every college ball practice would be a little to much if he was ever decided to work with the talents he has to go that far.

I’ve already done that for 2 years. I would have preferred that it was something other than JUCO ball, but it was still college ball, and it was 50+ games a year. I’m glad the farthest I had to go was 220 miles.

Oh and score keeping for me right now. Score keeper needs to keep score and needs some non distraction when all the runs and plays start to happen. Its hard to sit in dug out and keep score and have kids constantly coming up to you and asking when they are up for the 3rd time in one inning and not being distracted by kids being kids. I make sure there is a line up card posted in the dug out so the kids know when they are up to bat. Let the kids have fun being kids and let the manager manage and coaches have time to coach. Let the score keeper sit out side the dug out and eat seeds and score the book.

Evidently you’re experiences keeping score are far different than mine. I’ve scored exactly 2 games in my entire life from a dugout. 1st of all it’s a terrible perspective for an SK, and 2ndly, what you said is true and I won’t put up with it. Heck, I have no trouble asking fans around me to keep down the chatter, so you know a dugout isn’t the place for me.

Is my way of thinking the right way. For me and my son I feel it is. For anyone else I don't know the situation.

That’s all that counts, and its all that should count. How do you think you’d react if a coach told you the boy had to stop seeing one or all of his private coaches? For me it meant going to war. I didn’t take kindly to being told that not only couldn’t I spend my own money the way I saw fit. There was a big difference in having a volunteer PC who wasn’t even a pitcher in HS, trying to teach my son things a ML PC told me were wrong, and paying a professional coach with impeccable credentials, on our own time and that never conflicted with anything he was asked to do on the HS field.

It isn’t so much being told what to do, its that when the reasons are just flat out arbitrary, to me its BS.

My definition of a helicopter parent is not knowing when to back away as a parent. Not cutting the apron strings. Of course again that is just my definition.

And it’s a fine definition for you! But for me, I have a lot of difficulty seeing my sitting and watching one of my children doing something we both love, as not cutting the apron strings. Guys like you and I are the exception. Most people have to go to work for a lining and can’t even make it to the games!

So, if some dad who hasn’t been able to get off work to see his child play a game, gets an afternoon off and heads to school to watch a practice is told he’s a persona non grata and is forced to leave. Sorry, but to me that’s a pantload! What makes it a pantload isn’t that it’s a rule, its that its applied to everyone regardless of the situation.

[TonyK]

When that day arrives when your son or daughter can take your car to and from a school practice, if you do show up to watch, you'd better have a wad of bills to give them for gas!

I think it is a good point to try and see as many of your kid's school games that you can. You are supporting their teammates too, and I know the coaches appreciate the fact that you care enough to drive 30 or 60 minutes to away games. Don't be offended if your son decides to ride the bus home so they can go and eat with their teammates.

I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel two years from now when my son will play his final HS game in one or two sports. The thought occurs to me that I'll have a large void to fill after that.

But then there is my new grandson who I hear is a whiz with his play toys. And I thought my LL days were finally over.

[scorekeeper]

When that day arrives when your son or daughter can take your car to and from a school practice, if you do show up to watch, you'd better have a wad of bills to give them for gas!

LOL.

Trust me, I know the feeling. My kid’s HS was a 19 mile 1 way ride. With one playing baseball all year long for the HS, and the other one needing picked up at school and driven another 15 miles to Gymnastics 4 days a week after school, believe me, even at what seems like a paltry $2 a gallon, the family coffers were stretched to the limits.

I think it is a good point to try and see as many of your kid's school games that you can. You are supporting their teammates too, and I know the coaches appreciate the fact that you care enough to drive 30 or 60 minutes to away games. Don't be offended if your son decides to ride the bus home so they can go and eat with their teammates.

Go and eat with their teammates? HAH, I wish! Actually, it was more like, “Hey dad Joe, Bill, Tom, and Ed want to know if we can take them home.” Then after about 5 minutes on the road, its “Hey dad, can we stop at McDonalds for a couple Fish Sangwiges?”

Yeah right! I had to go to BK, CJ, or someplace else that would take plastic! :hyper:

I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel two years from now when my son will play his final HS game in one or two sports. The thought occurs to me that I'll have a large void to fill after that.

But then there is my new grandson who I hear is a whiz with his play toys. And I thought my LL days were finally over.

Everyone has their own story, but here’s a part of why I get so crazy about a lot of this stuff. My dad was a great guy and he certainly loved me, but unfortunately he was just a regular old working guy who not only had to work his 40, he had to take side jobs during the spring and summer months to make up for all the bad weather screwing up construction in the winter.

Because of that, he wasn’t able to come to more than a handful of my HS games, and for that matter, he got to see very few of my LL games. And what was worse was, he was blinded in one eye when I was about 10YO, and because of that, although he was an excellent athlete as a young man, he couldn’t even play catch with me when the time came that kids could learn so much from their dads.

I was never really bothered by it because I understood why he couldn't do what some of the other dads could, but it was something that must’ve really bothered him. The last time I talked to him before he had the heart attack that killed him, he was in the hosp and I was trying to get a flight out for an emergency leave to see him. I didn’t think he was gonna die, so it seemed strange that one of the last things he told me, was that he was sorry he couldn’t come to watch me play more than he did.

That night he died, and although my son wasn’t born for several years after that, and didn’t start playing ball for several more, there was no way I was gonna die without spending every second I could, watching him do the things he loved to do. It just so happened it was baseball, and there’s no coach gonna tell me I can’t watch my kid play.

[Jake Patterson]

Score,
You have to seperate rec ball and school ball or higher. I also coach basketball. How effective do you think I could be as a coach if I had a bunch of parents sitting around my gym watching their DD's practice?

At practice it is not about the parents being a problem as much as they are a distraction from what we are trying to accomplish during this very short period of time. Their focus need to be with us and what we are teaching and not on their parents. In 20 years of asking parents not to be a distraction at practices I have never had an issue. If and when they show up they stay off in the distance.

I don't know a MS or HS coach who would invite parents to practices.

[scorekeeper]

Score,
You have to seperate rec ball and school ball or higher. I also coach basketball. How effective do you think I could be as a coach if I had a bunch of parents sitting around my gym watching their DD's practice?

I honestly don’t understand why one, a small group, or even a large group of people sitting around watching a practice should alter what goes on, one iota.

Now if the assumption is that every parent is gonna be acting the same way the do at games, I’ll whole-heartedly agree, but why is that the assumption? As I’ve said many times before on this topic, I’ve attended many a practice and never did a thing but read a book, watch, and chase an occasional errant ball coming my way.

Of course, because I keep score and really believe a SK should do his/her absolute best to remain impartial, I very seldom do any hollering or “fan chatter” at all, and when I do, its in the form of a congratulatory acknowledgement of an especially fine play. Of course I’ve had our team’s fans look askance at me many a time because I do the same thing for both teams, but I couldn’t care less.

At practice it is not about the parents being a problem as much as they are a distraction from what we are trying to accomplish during this very short period of time. Their focus need to be with us and what we are teaching and not on their parents. In 20 years of asking parents not to be a distraction at practices I have never had an issue. If and when they show up they stay off in the distance.

I don't know a MS or HS coach who would invite parents to practices.

So why is it that you’ve never had an issue when there a supposedly all these jerk parents out there causing all kinds of problems? Is there something you put in the water in your city that makes the difference? ;)

Believe me, I understand the fear of having parents there! I’ve seen it in t-ball, all the way through college ball where there’s always at least one parent who for some reason becomes a distraction.

There are many kinds of distractions too. One is to be hollering instructions, another is to be constantly asking about a drink or a snack, and another is the aforementioned baseball fan chatter, just to name a few. And I completely understand why those things are a distraction at a practice. Heck, they’re a distraction at games too, but for some reason they’re much more accepted. But although there is good reason to believe that parents are gonna do those things that become distractive, why punish everyone prior to them being guilty of doing it?

I’m afraid I just can’t buy into this one. No matter how I look at it, it seems to come down more to a “power” thing or an unreasonable fear of what might happen than actually being about distractions.

FI, at HS practices, which normally begin anywhere from 1-2:30PM, what’s goin’ on? at the school I currently score for, things are pretty good, depending on which team we’re talking about. The V field and batting cages are all at least 300 yards from the school building and areas the students will be using for either athletics, band, gym classes, or just walkin’ around. But the JV field is right smack in the middle of all that, and therefore for at least an hour of the practice, there’s anywhere from 50-500 students running all over the place making a racket.

At my boy’s school, here’s how the playing fields were set up. behind the 1st base line, the girl’s JV field was about 50-60’ away, and right next to it was the SBV field. Since that school was and is a perennial SB powerhouse, you know there was always some kind of activity goin’ on there.

Coming up on the fields from the school is are at least 20 asphalt BB courts that always have at least some amount of play on them. Next to that is the woodshop where they build and sell outbuildings. The hammers and saws are normally goin’ until at least 5PM. Then there’ about 10 drop-building classrooms they needed to add for additional classroom space. These classrooms are used for art, and special music classes, and during most of the baseball season, a lot of “practicing” is done outside in the grass, right by the ball field. Guess how distractive any of those things is to the team, compared to a few parents?

Then, there’s always a newspaper guy, a scout, a photographer, maintenance guy, or someone else hanging around too. The HS team in this immediate area that’s been the powerhouse for as long as I can remember, has their V field right next to the biggest public park in a city of over 100,000, and many of the picnic areas and tot lots are right next to the field so people can watch!

Sorry, I just can’t buy that coaches need to have peace and quiet in order to conduct practices. :)

[Jake Patterson]

Score how do you feel about this:

How effective do you think I could be as a coach if I had a bunch of parents sitting around my gym watching their DD's practice?

[TonyK]

LOL.

Trust me, I know the feeling. My kid’s HS was a 19 mile 1 way ride. With one playing baseball all year long for the HS, and the other one needing picked up at school and driven another 15 miles to Gymnastics 4 days a week after school, believe me, even at what seems like a paltry $2 a gallon, the family coffers were stretched to the limits.



Go and eat with their teammates? HAH, I wish! Actually, it was more like, “Hey dad Joe, Bill, Tom, and Ed want to know if we can take them home.” Then after about 5 minutes on the road, its “Hey dad, can we stop at McDonalds for a couple Fish Sangwiges?”

Yeah right! I had to go to BK, CJ, or someplace else that would take plastic! :hyper:



Everyone has their own story, but here’s a part of why I get so crazy about a lot of this stuff. My dad was a great guy and he certainly loved me, but unfortunately he was just a regular old working guy who not only had to work his 40, he had to take side jobs during the spring and summer months to make up for all the bad weather screwing up construction in the winter.

Because of that, he wasn’t able to come to more than a handful of my HS games, and for that matter, he got to see very few of my LL games. And what was worse was, he was blinded in one eye when I was about 10YO, and because of that, although he was an excellent athlete as a young man, he couldn’t even play catch with me when the time came that kids could learn so much from their dads.

I was never really bothered by it because I understood why he couldn't do what some of the other dads could, but it was something that must’ve really bothered him. The last time I talked to him before he had the heart attack that killed him, he was in the hosp and I was trying to get a flight out for an emergency leave to see him. I didn’t think he was gonna die, so it seemed strange that one of the last things he told me, was that he was sorry he couldn’t come to watch me play more than he did.

That night he died, and although my son wasn’t born for several years after that, and didn’t start playing ball for several more, there was no way I was gonna die without spending every second I could, watching him do the things he loved to do. It just so happened it was baseball, and there’s no coach gonna tell me I can’t watch my kid play.

SK, you once pointed out the importance of driving out to the boondocks to see your kid play ball. Wouldn't you know the one away game I got to late early in this season was the one where my son had a 1B, 2B, and 3B and his triple was a one hopper to the 365 foot sign in LCF? All I kept hearing from parents during the second game was about his great line drive hit. That was his only great hit of the season too.

Our HS kids love to stop at BK's or McD's on the way home as a team. Tradition is they all ride the bus on the way home after the last away game so they can stop and eat. Some coaches are foolish enough to pay for everyone if the team played well. We play three schools that are 1 to 1 1/2 hours drive from us. Nothing like racing from work so you can drive through a rainstorm to catch the 6th and 7th innings.

Be thankful you had a dad who cared enough to consider what you were going through. Father's Day is coming up and I'll remember that my dad took me to a lot of Red Sox and Celtic games as a kid.

[Jake Patterson]

So why is it that you’ve never had an issue when there a supposedly all these jerk parents out there causing all kinds of problems? Is there something you put in the water in your city that makes the difference? ;)
I never said they were jerk parents. They are merely distractions. I coach school ball and look at what I do as important as any other class the child could be taking, in fact I feel in many cases they can learn more life skills playing ball than they can in many of the classrooms they are required to sit through - some would disagree. So be it.

Given the above if I look at my practices as a classroom why would I want distractions there? Would you think it effective if parents could attend their son or daughter's algebra class?

The primary distraction isn't the "jerk" parents as much as it is the child trying to impress the attending parents, something fundementally predominant in the pre-teen and teenage years.

I’m afraid I just can’t buy into this one. No matter how I look at it, it seems to come down more to a “power” thing or an unreasonable fear of what might happen than actually being about distractions.

Again, I do not feel this way and on this point we have to disagree. It is not about power I report to the AD and she is there often to insure the job is being done correctly. I'm retired and turn over the stypend back to athletics. If they want to fire me - fire me, I'll go play golf... I could care less about the power, to me it's about doing the job as well as it can be done.

What many do not understand is that the optimum parent's involvement is a moving target depending upon age and type of organization. At some point the parent should not be involved at all, with the exception of being positive reinforcing spectator.

As an example we once had a college coach tell my players. "If you want to play ball for me YOU contact me and provide your baseball accomplishments in a way that peaks my interest. If you do that I'll give you 1 point. If your dad calls me I'll substract 1 point, if your mom calls me I'll subtract two.

It's not about peace and quite. There are many distractions around a baseball field. Our jobs as coaches is to limit them as much as possible. When it's game time I want to see all the parents in the stands.

[rich]

Jake, I believe you said that you coach basketball. You're right, you can't have parents in the gym during practice. The baseball field being outside is obviously a different environment. As I've stated before, we have a rule: You want to coach your kid from the stands? He'll be sitting next to you real quick.Year 3, it's never had to be enforced.

[Jake Patterson]

Jake, I believe you said that you coach basketball. You're right, you can't have parents in the gym during practice. The baseball field being outside is obviously a different environment. As I've stated before, we have a rule: You want to coach your kid from the stands? He'll be sitting next to you real quick.Year 3, it's never had to be enforced.
It's a good rule...

[Jake Patterson]

You're right, you can't have parents in the gym during practice. The baseball field being outside is obviously a different environment.

Agree, but the distraction remains the same.

[scorekeeper]

I never said they were jerk parents. They are merely distractions. I coach school ball and look at what I do as important as any other class the child could be taking, in fact I feel in many cases they can learn more life skills playing ball than they can in many of the classrooms they are required to sit through - some would disagree. So be it.

Given the above if I look at my practices as a classroom why would I want distractions there? Would you think it effective if parents could attend their son or daughter's algebra class?

The primary distraction isn't the "jerk" parents as much as it is the child trying to impress the attending parents, something fundementally predominant in the pre-teen and teenage years.

I’m glad to see you take your job so seriously. I wouldn’t have respect for anyone who didn’t. “Jerk parents” wasn’t the best choice of words. I intended to show the irony of you saying you didn’t want the distractions, but since you never had them, why it was assumed they’d be there.

Do you really think most kids of HS age are so consumed with trying to impress their parents that it becomes a disruptive distraction? I’ll accept that it happens, and that the younger the player, the more likely it is to happen, but having watched a heck of a lot of practices(not as many as you, but a lot), unless the parent does something overt, like hollering, cheering, or such, the kids seem to pretty much ignore them.

Again, I do not feel this way and on this point we have to disagree. It is not about power I report to the AD and she is there often to insure the job is being done correctly. I'm retired and turn over the stypend back to athletics. If they want to fire me - fire me, I'll go play golf... I could care less about the power, to me it's about doing the job as well as it can be done.

That’s fine and I’m assuming most coaches feel pretty much the same way. But you still haven’t said anything that says you’ve had any problems with parents at practices. Maybe its because you’ve never allowed them, but that’s not the way I understood what you were saying.

What many do not understand is that the optimum parent's involvement is a moving target depending upon age and type of organization. At some point the parent should not be involved at all, with the exception of being positive reinforcing spectator.

I’m sorry if I’m coming across as being stubborn, but how does simply going to a practice and watching equate to anything other than being a “positive reinforcing spectator”. Heck, I’ve already said that I don’t even agree with the positive or reinforcing part at practices.

As an example we once had a college coach tell my players. "If you want to play ball for me YOU contact me and provide your baseball accomplishments in a way that peaks my interest. If you do that I'll give you 1 point. If your dad calls me I'll substract 1 point, if your mom calls me I'll subtract two.

LOL! I understand the point he was trying to get across, but do you really believe that’s what really happens, or is it that making the point understood is really the main goal? Over the years I’ve sure heard a lot of rhetoric about how this coach won’t take a player if he has a PITA parent, but when push comes to shove, if the kid is good enough, a whole lot of bile is swallowed.

We have one of those on our HS team right now. This one kid is for all intents and purposes a very high quality P with a very high upside as far as potential goes. But his father is absolutely one of the most obnoxious guys I’ve ever run across. The only think keeping him from getting punched is that its pretty much accepted that he’s so stupid, he doesn’t realize what he’s doing.

The entire 5 coach staff has spoken to him at one time or another trying to get him to take his chill pills, every one of the regularly attending parents has spoken to him asking that the chill out because he’s such a distraction, I’ve tried to get him to take things down a notch because when he’s within 30’ of me I can’t concentrate on the game, and he’s been tossed by 2 umps and threatened by 6 more during this past season.

There’s no way any coach would tolerate the same thing from any other parent, unless of course they were the parent to the team batting stud!

It's not about peace and quite. There are many distractions around a baseball field. Our jobs as coaches is to limit them as much as possible. When it's game time I want to see all the parents in the stands.

I honestly do understand, but I just can’t accept the concept that every parent is gonna be a distraction, at least to the point of being more of one than anything else goin’ on around the field during a practice.

Again, maybe its just that I’m an odd duck, but one of the reasons I know a lot of what I know about baseball is that I watch practices. It gives me an understanding of why coaches do the things they do during games, and thus IMO, makes me a much more knowledgeable fan/spectator/observer.

Because I take the time to learn the signals and pay attention, when it comes game time I don’t start screaming about a coach’s stupid mistake in sending a player when he shouldn’t have, because I know he didn’t. I also know that the coach just put on the take sign, so screamin’ and hollerin’ at the poor kid batting that he has to hit that pitch is little more than ignorance.

Now like I said, maybe I’m an odd duck, but I’m still a duck. Although I understand your point, to me it seems counterproductive. The reason most fans act the way they do is because they simply don’t understand the game and what’s going on, but then you don’t want them to have the opportunity to overcome a lot of that ignorance.

I’m a firm believer in education being a huge problem solver because it combats ignorance, so what your saying is that there’s a university that has all this knowledge, but I’m not allowed to attend.:sigh:

[Jake Patterson]

Score, good points... It sounds like I would have no problem with you sitting in the stands. Not many parents though have your interest in the game and their concerns are more self-centered.

Do you really think most kids of HS age are so consumed with trying to impress their parents that it becomes a disruptive distraction?
Unfortunately yes- The biggest problem being the father who has "groomed" his son for a life in professional or college baseball and the mom who can't cut the apron strings. I really wished they didn't exist, but they do.

[rich]

Scorekeeper, I appreciate your passion etc.. However, Daddy Loudmouth would be verboten to attend any games. The school administration should handle that so that the coach does not get put in the middle. If he was seen anywhere near the field his son would be removed from the game & given a 1 game suspension. The 2nd time...see ya. The school AD should handle that. Sounds like you folks (parents & coaches) have made a deal with the devil. I don't care who the kid is or how good he is. A disservice is being done to all the other player's. I'm amazed that this has been allowed to go on.

[scorekeeper]

Scorekeeper, I appreciate your passion etc.. However, Daddy Loudmouth would be verboten to attend any games. The school administration should handle that so that the coach does not get put in the middle. If he was seen anywhere near the field his son would be removed from the game & given a 1 game suspension. The 2nd time...see ya. The school AD should handle that. Sounds like you folks (parents & coaches) have made a deal with the devil. I don't care who the kid is or how good he is. A disservice is being done to all the other player's. I'm amazed that this has been allowed to go on.

All I can say is, there is always more to the situation than meets the eye.

I don’t fault the coach(s), I don’t fault the parents, I don’t fault the AD, or the school administration individually, but I do fault them as a group. Trust me, if my son was on the team, I’d have been raising holy Hell with all of them!

But, I’m just the lowly SK, have absolutely no ax to grind, and only care about the team’s success because I’m scoring for them. I know none of them personally. I’m told that soon I’ll have a scorer’s box, booth, or something, that will get me away from this guy, and that’s all I care about!

[rich]

Order of blame: 1. The AD--it's his Dept.--Have some cull-yoons
2. School Administration
3. Coach
* all of the above are paid
4. Parents-no blame...when you said you'd raise holy hell if your kid was on the team. Why? You'd only make it worse. What if all the parents raised a ruckus? Remember your SON is on the team...not you. The coach should have asked for a meeting at the first sign of a problem & if he didn't get the proper support from the school administration then.....Later!

[scorekeeper]

Order of blame: 1. The AD--it's his Dept.--Have some cull-yoons
2. School Administration
3. Coach
* all of the above are paid
4. Parents-no blame...when you said you'd raise holy hell if your kid was on the team. Why? You'd only make it worse. What if all the parents raised a ruckus? Remember your SON is on the team...not you. The coach should have asked for a meeting at the first sign of a problem & if he didn't get the proper support from the school administration then.....Later!

Actually, I’ve been down a similar road, and although the department is the AD’s, trust me, s/he is nothing more than a department head who is an employee of the principal who has nearly complete authority and responsibility to run the school however s/he sees fit.

We’re back to the old story of, only authority can be delegated, never responsibility. Like Harry Truman said, “The buck stops here!” Although we’d all hope AD’s would put an end to something like that, we all know there has to be something pretty severe going on for that to happen.

About the coach being paid. In today’s world, that is something that can’t be counted on. There is at least one school district out here that doesn’t pay its coaches. The school provide the fields because they’re already there and they provide minimum maintenance because all the other turf has to be cut, but outside of that, its NADA. I’ll admit that its not “common”, but its happening more an more.

I’d raise Holy Hell despite the fact that it was the baseball team! I went in and raised “Hell” when I was walking by a classroom with my 11YO daughter and some students were engaged in the foulest language imaginable with a teacher standing right there. I raised “Hell” when I was at a game and some obnoxious ass, obviously drunk or on drugs, was hollering obscenities in front of my wife and daughter. I raised “Hell” when one of my son’s HS coaches was talking to the boys and telling them how to get laid in Fresno, where we were going for a tournament.

IOW, I couldn’t care less about the team being my son’s, not mine. BS is BS no matter where it comes from when it affects my family. That’s my responsibility, no one else’s! Sorry, I ain’t built like a great many people who fear reprisals on their child, or think that a 14-18YO should be handling matters like that.

If my actions only make it worse, then so be it! I’ve been in front of the Supt of schools, and board of education before. Trust me, the concept of responsibility is not lost on them, especially around election time! LOL!

[rich]

The 3 instances you provide of giving hell to someone are indeed valid but they differ vastly from your initial premise. Whatever...if you pulled that stuff with our team ( 4 unpaid coaches with no relatives on the team)....Well wait, you wouldn't have to raise cain because the Loudmouth & Superstar son would have already been jettisoned.

[scorekeeper]

The 3 instances you provide of giving hell to someone are indeed valid but they differ vastly from your initial premise. Whatever...if you pulled that stuff with our team ( 4 unpaid coaches with no relatives on the team)....Well wait, you wouldn't have to raise cain because the Loudmouth & Superstar son would have already been jettisoned.

What initial premise was that? We were talking about distractions and I gave the example of the idiot parent who is a living, breathing distraction. Later, I noted that that if my son were on the team, I’d raise Hell about the guy, and I would. The reason I don’t do it now is, I have nothing what-so-ever to do with the team other than to keep score.

My family doesn’t come to the games, so I have no real investment in the team that would cause me to get upset enough to spend my time seeking a resolution to a something I perceive as a problem. That’s up to these other folks!

Its their families that have to put up with that crap, not mine. Do I like it that the guy’s a mutt? Heck no! But then again, I spent 16 years in the service and visited many places that give definition to the term “Drunken sailor”, so not a whole lot bothers me personally.

Just because I don’t like someone’s actions personally, seldom is cause for me to complain to someone in authority. Now when my family is involved, that’s a whole different story. I’ve done my share of trying to “do the right thing”. Now its time for these other folks to do the same for their families.

I’m honestly glad to hear that such a thing wouldn’t be tolerated at your school, and I wish it were so everywhere. But we all know that isn’t the case. Some time back my son played for a team that was VERY selective about its players. Everyone was told right up front that no nonsense from parents would be tolerated.

When some of us parents noticed that one fellow, another particularly obnoxious guy, was constantly overriding coach’s instructions during games, openly questioning the coaches decisions, and who’s son, although the youngest and most inexperienced by far was playing every inning of every game, while far better players were getting the “experience” of watching from the bench, we began to question what was going on.

The obnoxious guy’s wife let it slip that the brand new Dodge Durango with the special paint job, the Viper engine and suspension installed at the factory, the satellite phone, the company credit card and insurance the coach was enjoying, were all at her husband’s expense.

Come on and tell me how such a thing would “NEVER” on your school. The truth is, there’s a price on everything, and for sure on integrity. Be thankful that your team’s price is so high, it hasn’t yet been met. :p

[rich]

When some of us parents noticed that one fellow, another particularly obnoxious guy, was constantly overriding coach’s instructions during games, openly questioning the coaches decisions, and who’s son, although the youngest and most inexperienced by far was playing every inning of every game, while far better players were getting the “experience” of watching from the bench, we began to question what was going on.

Were talking apples & oranges...the above situation CANNOT occur with our squad . As I stated previously, our 4 coaches have no son's on the team.

[rich]

Sorry for the way the quote wasn't highlighted.

[scorekeeper]

When some of us parents noticed that one fellow, another particularly obnoxious guy, was constantly overriding coach’s instructions during games, openly questioning the coaches decisions, and who’s son, although the youngest and most inexperienced by far was playing every inning of every game, while far better players were getting the “experience” of watching from the bench, we began to question what was going on.

Were talking apples & oranges...the above situation CANNOT occur with our squad . As I stated previously, our 4 coaches have no son's on the team.

Mebbe I wasn’t clear. The fellow I was referring to wasn’t a coach. He was a dad sitting right amongst us when he wasn’t up by the backstop telling his boy what pitches to call when he was catching, what pitches the C should call when his some was Pitching, or what every batter should be doing on nearly every plate appearance.

Our team did have one dad as a coach, but he wasn’t a coach who controlled anything, although he did have twins on the team.

[Ursa Major]

Geez, I step away for a couple of days, and look where the thread has gone -- more about PITA parents.

I'm one of those odd ducks who finds nothing is more restful to me than watching kids with a good coach go through practice or a game -- and my kid doesn't even need to be involved. Give me a good camp chair with a footrest, my IPod, a good book, and I just get into the zone of reading my book while my sixth sense tells me when to look up because something interesting is happening (or a ball is coming my way).

And I too have spent many hours scouring in the bushes for overthrown practice balls, which makes me welcome at practices.

Again, a key distinction is between parent-coached ball, interscholastic ball, and maybe serious travel ball. In the latter two, I can see not wishing to have parents around too much.
Rich said: Practice shouldn't be closed. Hey...its boring but if someone enjoys the nuances of the game & watching a team come together and jell over the course of the season then let them watch. What's the big deal? I don't even notice who is in the stands at practice.Given your other point about parents trying to instruct players, I'm glad to see that you detect the difference between watching and interfering.

When I first got involved with my son's team as a helper only (as I didn't know the manager and he made it clear he didn't need any more coaches), I absolutely gave no advice to any kid other than to reinforce a point that the manager had already made. If I saw something, I occasionally -- about once a month -- would stay silent and the just email the coach. And, I made it clear that I neither wanted nor expected him to respond to explain if he agreed or disagreed with my observation, because I never wanted him to see he had an email from me and groan that he'd have to respond to straighten me out. My point was clear: "Hey, this is what I observed about Player X; use this information or not, but I won't speak another word about it." Also, I often had a video camera going at games so I could point out who's technique might be backsliding or who was backing away from the plate (i.e., stepping in the bucket).

[scorekeeper]

Geez, I step away for a couple of days, and look where the thread has gone -- more about PITA parents.

I'm one of those odd ducks who finds nothing is more restful to me than watching kids with a good coach go through practice or a game -- and my kid doesn't even need to be involved. Give me a good camp chair with a footrest, my IPod, a good book, and I just get into the zone of reading my book while my sixth sense tells me when to look up because something interesting is happening (or a ball is coming my way).

For me its Star Trek books. That way when I look away and then come back to the book, I don’t miss something important if I skip a sentence or two, and don’t really notice if I’m reading the same thing for a 2nd time. ;)

And I too have spent many hours scouring in the bushes for overthrown practice balls, which makes me welcome at practices.

And at some schools, that can really be something very valuable. Its often much better for everyone to have some old guy or at least an adult chasing balls into someone’s yard who happens to live close to the field, if you get my drift.

Again, a key distinction is between parent-coached ball, interscholastic ball, and maybe serious travel ball. In the latter two, I can see not wishing to have parents around too much.

I can too, if its warranted. But to assume out of hand that everyone is gonna be a PITA is overreacting, at least IMHO.

Given your other point about parents trying to instruct players, I'm glad to see that you detect the difference between watching and interfering.

That’s one of the reasons this stuff is a hot button to me. I realize that all people are different and that some don’t have the sense God gave a goose, but I like to think of myself as someone who understands that there is a standard of behavior suitable for every situation.

I many not get them right all the time, but I’m a pretty quick study on such things, and if I’m told what the expectations are, its not very often I screw things up, although it has happened a time or two. ;)

When I first got involved with my son's team as a helper only (as I didn't know the manager and he made it clear he didn't need any more coaches), I absolutely gave no advice to any kid other than to reinforce a point that the manager had already made. If I saw something, I occasionally -- about once a month -- would stay silent and the just email the coach. And, I made it clear that I neither wanted nor expected him to respond to explain if he agreed or disagreed with my observation, because I never wanted him to see he had an email from me and groan that he'd have to respond to straighten me out. My point was clear: "Hey, this is what I observed about Player X; use this information or not, but I won't speak another word about it." Also, I often had a video camera going at games so I could point out who's technique might be backsliding or who was backing away from the plate (i.e., stepping in the bucket).

I’m wondering if I’ve stumbled into the Twilight Zone. Although I wasn’t an “official” helper, I’ve almost always been the SK. I’ve dutifully provided any and all help I could in the way of information, and never, that’s NEVER offered anything unsolicited, unless I truly felt a child was in some form of distress or danger. And even then, it was never me talking to the coach/manager in front of anyone else. An e-mail was usually sent, and with the same admonition that no response was necessary, and if it was something very important, for instance knowing about an injury the kid wouldn’t tell the coach about, a quick phone call would do it.

Even with coaches I didn’t like or respect, I could act civilly to, and all I ever asked in return was that I could expect the same.

[Jake Patterson]

I’m wondering if I’ve stumbled into the Twilight Zone. Although I wasn’t an “official” helper, I’ve almost always been the SK. I’ve dutifully provided any and all help I could in the way of information, and never, that’s NEVER offered anything unsolicited, unless I truly felt a child was in some form of distress or danger.

You are unlike many... Again I would have no problem with you in my stands.

[scorekeeper]

You are unlike many... Again I would have no problem with you in my stands.

Thanx Jake, I take that as quite a compliment.

I know you know that I truly do understand the basic worry of coaches. Not only do I understand, I believe its well founded. Oh if there were just some way us “oldies” could get the “youngies” to understand what it took us at least 10 tears to find out for ourselves. ;)

But I fear that with the growing number of “youngies” leaving the traditional places where we all learned baseball life lessons, and more rapidly getting into what they believe are necessary venues for advancement, I fear the “odd ducks” like Ursa and myself are little more than anachronisms, and will soon be gone forever.