Halladay vs. Oswalt- Battle of the Roy's

[baseballfan123]

Better pitcher overall?

Both born in the same year (1977) and both are right handed.

[natsnsoxfan]

No question about it for me. Halladay, hands down.

[Westlake]

There should be a 'too close to call' option for me.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No question about it for me. Halladay, hands down.

No way it's hands down.

Oswalt 3.02 ERA
Halladay 3.62 ERA

Oswalt 144 ERA+
Halladay 130 ERA+

Oswalt 7.54 K/9
Halladay 6.36 K/9

Oswalt 1.96 BB/9
Halladay 2.25 BB/9

Oswalt 3.86 K/BB
Halladay 2.83 K/BB

Oswalt 1.172 WHIP
Halladay 1.231 WHIP

Halladay does play in the stronger AL which does close the gap but certainly not the entire gap.

[AstrosFan]

If Halladay could stay on the field, I might take him. But he averages fewer innings per season than Oswalt, even when I take out his rookie year. Oswalt also has a much better K/BB ratio, allows fewer home runs per nine (though I may still take Halladay in this department, since he plays in the American League). Oswalt also has a better career ERA+. By Win Shares, Halladay leads, 111 to 107, but he has played three more seasons. Halladay has a 3.70 DERA according to Baseball Prospectus, and 54 WARP3, adjusted for all-time. Oswalt's numbers are 3.31 and 52.4. Again, that WARP3 figure for Halladay is in three more seasons. Pitching Runs Above Replacement (PRAR) have Halladay at 462, Oswalt at 508. The numbers are clearly in favor of Oswalt. Statistically, this isn't too close to call. I'm not interested in who has looked better. I want to know who has performed better over the years. That's Roy Oswalt. Long "O".

[natsnsoxfan]

I don't get to see much of Oswalt but I do see a lot of Halladay because hes in the AL East. Getting three runs is like a blowout when it comes to him, the guy is untouchable. I know people have pointed out the AL thing but let me take it a step further, not only does he play in the AL, but the AL East which may be the best division in baseball, if not best then second behind AL Central. The AL East has been the strongest hitting division in baseball since before Roy H. entered the league and i give him quite a bit of a bump for that.

I'll take either on my team but id take Halladay over Oswalt if i had a choice between them.

And don't take this the wrong way, but..... I think you 'stros fans may have a little bit of a hometown bias towards Oswalt ;)

[AstrosFan]

My argument is, statistically speaking, Oswalt is better.

But I understand where you're coming from. If you see a player more, you're more tuned in to how good he is. I don't get to see much of Oswalt or Halladay where I live, so I have to go by the numbers. And they favor the NL guy.

[Johnny Evers]

I don't get to see much of Oswalt but I do see a lot of Halladay because hes in the AL East. Getting three runs is like a blowout when it comes to him, the guy is untouchable. I know people have pointed out the AL thing but let me take it a step further, not only does he play in the AL, but the AL East which may be the best division in baseball, if not best then second behind AL Central. The AL East has been the strongest hitting division in baseball since before Roy H. entered the league and i give him quite a bit of a bump for that.

I'll take either on my team but id take Halladay over Oswalt if i had a choice between them.

And don't take this the wrong way, but..... I think you 'stros fans may have a little bit of a hometown bias towards Oswalt ;)

I agree. The numbers definitely favor Oswalt, but taking into account that Halladay faces significantly tougher lineups on a regular basis, and my perception that he is a more dominant pitcher (subjective, yes, but it carries some weight) tips the scale to Halladay for me.

[natsnsoxfan]

I think one of the thing that hurts Halladay in this conversation is that he hasn't gotten to pitch on the big stage in the playoffs so most people have more exposure to Oswalt than Halladay. Plus he plays in Canada and they don't get a lot of coverage in baseball, even from ESPN.

[MarinersFan51]

ill have to go with oswalt, clutch in the playoff, great stats, it was actually a toss up at first, but the fact that oswalt has a sexier wind up sold it for me

[STLCards2]

ill have to go with oswalt, clutch in the playoff, great stats, it was actually a toss up at first, but the fact that oswalt has a sexier wind up sold it for me

The fact that Oswalt is far less injury prone sold it to me. Remember, league differences are already factored into ERA+, so Oswalt's 144 compared to Halladay's 13? ERA+ is what it is (without accounting for defense support of course). However, I would love to have Halladay too!

Natsfan-

Also, if I make the claim that Albert Pujols is the best NL right-handed hitter in baeball the past 6 years, does that mean I am a homer? A very strong statistical case can be made for Oswalt over Halladay...and they are close. Should an Astros fan pick Halladay just so they don't come across as biased? Is it not possible that your chosing of Halladay is biased by the fact you admittedly watched him pitch many more times than Ozwalt? Just a thought.

[natsnsoxfan]

The fact that Oswalt is far less injury prone sold it to me. Remember, league differences are already factored into ERA+, so Oswalt's 144 compared to Halladay's 130 whatever is what it is. However, I would love to have Halladay too!

Also, if I make the claim that Albert Pujols is the best NL right-handed hitter in baeball the past 6 years, does that mean I am a homer? A very strong statistical case can be made for Oswalt over Halladay...and they are close. Should an Astros fan pick Halladay just so they don't come across as biased?

I never said that. My point is that this is such a close debate that hometown bias could sway you one way. Theres no right or wrong answer to this, its a matter of opinion. Albert Pujols is without the question the best NL RH hitter over the past 6 years but the debate of Oswalt vs. Halladay is a much closer one.

[The Dude]

I see way more of Oswalt than Halladay, but I have to go back to the perception that Halladay is the more dominant pitcher of the two (plus, he throws a palmball). Plus, when your nickname is Doc Halladay ... well.

[plask_stirlac]

No way it's hands down.

Oswalt 3.02 ERA
Halladay 3.62 ERA

Oswalt 144 ERA+
Halladay 130 ERA+

Oswalt 7.54 K/9
Halladay 6.36 K/9

Oswalt 1.96 BB/9
Halladay 2.25 BB/9

Oswalt 3.86 K/BB
Halladay 2.83 K/BB

Oswalt 1.172 WHIP
Halladay 1.231 WHIP

Halladay does play in the stronger AL which does close the gap but certainly not the entire gap.

Halladay's career averages don't really represent the career or what he'll do that well, 2000 did a ton of damage but obviously he's 180 degrees turned.

He's had one year with an ERA above 3.25 since 2001, that's pretty great, like shaving half a run off of 3.62 or more. 4.20 is okay as well.

Now, is he better? I would say Oswalt's better since he pitches a lot every year.

[AstrosFan]

Is this an observational dominance, as in, Halladay looks more dominant? I wonder how one judges that. I always do it by how bad a pitcher makes the hitters look.

Oswalt needs a great nickname. Let's work on this.

[Westlake]

Is this an observational dominance, as in, Halladay looks more dominant? I wonder how one judges that. I always do it by how bad a pitcher makes the hitters look.

Oswalt needs a great nickname. Let's work on this.

The Wizard doesn't suit you?

[AstrosFan]

Already taken. Something original.

[Old Sweater]

Real close on these 2. Halladay being the only Cy Young winner from Colorado had just a little homer in my vote.

[plask_stirlac]

Is this an observational dominance, as in, Halladay looks more dominant? I wonder how one judges that. I always do it by how bad a pitcher makes the hitters look.

Oswalt needs a great nickname. Let's work on this.

The Operator

"Curveball? Okay, I'm connecting you with fastball, please hold."

The Assassin? Too inappropriate?

[The Dude]

Is this an observational dominance, as in, Halladay looks more dominant? I wonder how one judges that. I always do it by how bad a pitcher makes the hitters look.


To answer your question, to me it's a number of things: Oswalt is about average sized, while Halladay is a massive 6 foot 6, and also I've seen Oswalt pitch in person, and he's never done that well at Miller Park. It just seems to me that Halladay is the more dominating power pitcher whereas Oswalt is in a Greg Maddux vein.

[Dalkowski110]

"Oswalt needs a great nickname. Let's work on this."

Hmm...how about the Weir Win Machine (Oswalt was born in Weir, MS)? That was the first thing that came to mind after looking at where he was born.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

To answer your question, to me it's a number of things: Oswalt is about average sized, while Halladay is a massive 6 foot 6, and also I've seen Oswalt pitch in person, and he's never done that well at Miller Park. It just seems to me that Halladay is the more dominating power pitcher whereas Oswalt is in a Greg Maddux vein.
For his career Oswalt's home record

Home: 55-18, 2.60 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, .233 BAA

Also, dominance should be defined by actual perfomance, not how a pitcher looks like. A guy can 5'10" and be absolutely dominant. The fact that Halladay is 6'6" is irrelavent. Halladay is not a big strikeout guy so he's just as much a Greg Maddux guy as Owalt.

[holyroman]

I would say really similar pitchers. I'd give the edge to Oswalt for the slight edge in numbers, combined with the durability factor and Playoff wins

[Westlake]

For his career Oswalt's home record

Home: 55-18, 2.60 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, .233 BAA

Also, dominance should be defined by actual perfomance, not how a pitcher looks like. A guy can 5'10" and be absolutely dominant. The fact that Halladay is 6'6" is irrelavent. Halladay is not a big strikeout guy so he's just as much a Greg Maddux guy as Owalt.

What does his performance at Miller Park have to do with his stats at home?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

What does his performance at Miller Park have to do with his stats at home?
Doh! I had a simple brain fart. For some reason I confused Miller Park with Minute Maid Park. My bad. You enjoy cacthing my mistakes don't you Westlake? :laugh

[AstrosFan]

I like The Operator as a nickname for Oswalt. It's short and simple, and it fits. The Weir Win Machine is a bit too cumbersome for my tastes.

Oswalt's strikeout rates are higher than Halladay's, so I don't see how he's more in the Maddux vein than Doc Halladay.

[strosfan]

The Wizard doesn't suit you?

The Wizard definitely doesn't suit me. I don't like it because if it comes from "the wizard of oz", his name is pronounced with a long "O"!! And that doesn't make any sense. He needs a new nickname (besides the one me and my girlfriends call him - "squirrel pants"):blush:

Yes - can we work on this?

[digglahhh]

I'm not going to say anything that hasn't been said before. I think Halladay is probably a bit better when he is on the mound, but because of durability issues, if I had the choice between the two, I would take Oswalt without any hesitation.

FWIW, I believe we are talking about the second and third best pitchers in the game.

[Blackout]

I take Oswalt with ease.

[PJ-34]

I take Halladay, not because I am a fan of the Jays but because he is very onsistant, everytime he goes on the mound you know you will get a steller performance.

[digglahhh]

I take Halladay, not because I am a fan of the Jays but because he is very onsistant, everytime he goes on the mound you know you will get a steller performance.

And how is that different from Oswalt?

The only difference is how consistently the two of them are on the mound, which is what tips the scales in favor of Oswalt. For one game, with guaranteed health, I'd probably take Halladay though.

[KCGHOST]

This is like flipping a coin these guys are so close. I chose Halladay for having to deal with the AL and the DH.

[Colorado Express]

A healthy Halladay gets my vote, but he just can't seem to stay healthy.