Torii Hunter "Violates" League Rule on Gift Giving

[AutographCollector]

Just heard this on Baseball Tonight on ESPN. Last year when the Royals beat (I think they said that KC swept) the Tigers; Hunter sent 4 cases of champagne to the Royals team to "thank them". MLB got word of this and is talking about suspending Hunter for 3 years!!
Is there a MLB rule on gift giving? And if so what exactly does it entail of?
What will the Players Union say about this?
Also... Hunter is a free agent after this year, will this really hurt his chances of another team signing him?

[Dravecky43]

Been waiting a while for the punch line...

[Kline's Ghost]

Honeslty, to me it's a non-issue. It'll be slap on the wrist for Hunter, that's it. No way the Player Association would let the league suspend him three years for giving champaigne to another team. Not without a fight anyway. No big deal.

[Mattingly]

I've never heard of a player being suspended for giving another team several bottles of champagne. It could've been a Rolex watch for all I know, so long as it wasn't a Bentley or a Ferrari.

Doc Gooden was suspended for the 1995 season because of his continued narcotic usage. There's no way in the world this could be remotely similar, much less 3 times as bad. This in addition to his being a big star, so to think he'd get this would be a joke more than anything else. Not even Bud Lite could stoop so low.

[Ubiquitous]

It is actually a pretty big deal, one with history. The legendary black sox of 1919 did it in 1917 with the Tigers. Supposedly the Sox gave the Tigers a gift _money) because they beat the Red Sox thus giving the White Sox breathing room. The excuse seems dubious (though in fact they did give the money) and it is more likely the money was for the Tigers to lay down against the White Sox at the end of the season.

Hunter violated rule 21-b and the penalties minimum is 3 years suspension. If in fact they did slap him with that one there isn't much the Union could do. It is a rule that they have agreed on. But I will say I doubt the League will do it.

[Knick9]

Just heard this on Baseball Tonight on ESPN. Last year when the Royals beat (I think they said that KC swept) the Tigers; Hunter sent 4 cases of champagne to the Royals team to "thank them". MLB got word of this and is talking about suspending Hunter for 3 years!!
Is there a MLB rule on gift giving? And if so what exactly does it entail of?
What will the Players Union say about this?
Also... Hunter is a free agent after this year, will this really hurt his chances of another team signing him?

Suspending someone for giving a gift to another team for 3 years? That is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard. MLB does alot of stupid things, but this will be an outrage if he is suspended for that long and at all. It's a non-issue, and yet this gets as much heat as the steroid scandals? Yes, it's in the rules, but I question how legit this rule is.

MLB, don't do it. :faint: :disbelief:

[Ubiquitous]

Forgot to say why I don't think they will hit him with it. Hunter made the statement that he was going to get them Champagne after the Royals had already beaten the Tigers. The rule I believe makes it illegal to offer to give gifts to teams if they beat other teams or attempt to beat other teams. So Hunter will probably get spared the death sentence and instead have to pay a fine.

[hudsonharden]

I think the rule is there for a reason, because if you have players and teams exchanging gifts it could seriously compromise the integrity of the game. I think the MLB will probably let Torii take the gift back and just give him (and the rest of MLB) a stern warning about exchanging gifts. I would guarentee that most players aren't familiar with this rule, until now.

[Mattingly]

Ubi, what's Rule 21-b? I only see them going to 10, but not to 11.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/foreword.jsp

[Erik Bedard]

I can see why it's a rule, and why the penalty was there in the first place, but for this occasion, it seems pretty harsh.

[Brooklyn]

I can see why it's a rule, and why the penalty was there in the first place, but for this occasion, it seems pretty harsh.

Completely agree. I think the rule is necessary, or at least was when there wasn't so much money in the game that a few extra bucks or a gift could entice someone to do something inappropriate.

But also agree with this situation. It looks like he meant no harm, and he got the champagne back. suspengind him would not solve anything

[insanefishpossay]

Ubi, what's Rule 21-b? I only see them going to 10, but not to 11.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2847416

But baseball has rules about this sort of thing.

Namely, rule 21-b, which proclaims "Any player or person connected with a Club who shall offer or give any gift or reward to a player or person connected with another Club for services rendered ... in defeating or attempting to defeat a competing Club ... shall be declared ineligible for not less than three years."

[AutographCollector]

Doc Gooden was suspended for the 1995 season because of his continued narcotic usage. There's no way in the world this could be remotely similar, much less 3 times as bad.

Good point. If a player tests positive for drugs and only gets a year, then why in the world would something like this deserve a harsher penalty?
I could see Hunter telling KC... if you guys beat "Team X" then I'll give every player on the team a brand new car. Something like that defintately wouldn't be excusable.

[west coast orange and black]

it's a penalty for payment of services rendered, which ought to come only from the parent club.
"conspiracy" could quickly edge into the conversation.

[KCGHOST]

This will quickly become a non-issue. MLB is not to banish one of its best ambassadors over what is, at worst, an extremely technical violation of an obscure rule.

[Ubiquitous]

Pete Rose at one point was one of baseball's best ambassadors.

[Bukanier]

Namely, rule 21-b, which proclaims "Any player or person connected with a Club who shall offer or give any gift or reward to a player or person connected with another Club for services rendered ... in defeating or attempting to defeat a competing Club ... shall be declared ineligible for not less than three years."
Damn, I was ready to call for the head of Adam Dunn. :rolleyes:


In Saturday's [April 7] game, Cincinnati's Adam Dunn received credit for a home run when his high drive into right-center field caromed out of Xavier Nady's glove and into the seats.

Dunn yesterday acknowledged the gift by sending over a bottle of Nady's favorite beverage to the outfielder.

[bigtrain]

I am going to assume someone in the media heard about this, found a copy of the league rules (which appears to have not been updated since the FDR administration) and ran with the story.

I think the media is making it more of a story that what it really is. With all the problems baseball faces (steriods, decline in interest among African American athletes, Barry Bonds, team payrolls) this is one they need not concern themselves with.

Acknowledge it, apologize, move on.

[natsnsoxfan]

they said on ESPN that some baseball cheaters blog found it i guess.

This rule seems a little outdated to me.

[Ubiquitous]

The person who discovered it was Derek Zumsteg, who also was the one who broke the K-Rod pine star story a few weeks back. It is the cheaters guide to baseball blog.

[natsnsoxfan]

thats what i thought it was but i couldn't remember.

Somehow i doubt that the commish even knew about this rule and nothing would've come of it if not for this blog.

[Solair Wright]

If Torii Hunter is indeed suspended for three years, rather than appealing to lower it, he will threaten to file legal action against MLB. Remember when Don Sutton was "accused" of scuffing the ball and defacing it, then got suspended ten games, then it was dropped because he threatened to sue MLB?

This is probably the silliest "threat" of suspension since Sutton's defacing the ball back in the 1970s-80s, when he was with the Dodgers.

[natsnsoxfan]

theres no way in hell he gets suspended, the union would fight to the death to make sure of it.

[Ubiquitous]

What exactly could the union do? Torii could sue but again there isn't much he can do. The rule is there, the union has agreed to it at least 5 different times now.

[Ursa Major]

I think y'all are making a mountain out of a molehill. Here's the AP report on it:

Torii Hunter was so happy last fall when Kansas City's season-ending win over Detroit gave Minnesota the division title he vowed to buy a bottle of champagne for each of the Royals.

"Every one of them! Dom Perignon!" Hunter said on Oct. 1 as he celebrated with teammates.

But Major League Baseball has a rule against such rewards, as Hunter recently found out.

Though he didn't fully follow through on his gesture, Hunter had four bottles of champagne sent to Mike Sweeney's stall in the Kansas City clubhouse when the Twins were there over the weekend.

The commissioner's office informed the team on Monday of the violation, and general manager Terry Ryan straightened the situation out with the Royals. The unopened bottles were to be sent back to Minnesota.

"There isn't any harm done. There's nobody that benefited from anything. I think it's a good reminder about the integrity of the game," Ryan said Tuesday.

The rule, 21-b, regards misconduct and is titled "Gift For Defeating Competing Club." It prohibits anyone connected with a particular team from offering a gift or reward to a person connected with another club for an attempt to defeat a competing club. The giver and receiver, without notification of the commissioner's office, are subject to ineligibility for "not less than three years."

Ryan said he didn't anticipate punishment.

The rule is posted inside the Twins' clubhouse, but Hunter said Tuesday that he didn't know about it until this week. The MLB public relations office had no comment Tuesday, because officials were still gathering information. Heck, giving four bottles of champagne to players whose average salary exceeds $3 million (well, maybe not on the Royals) would be akin to sending a decent cigar to an opponent in 1917. More of a memento than a "bribe".

[Mattingly]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2847416
Thanks for the link. :)
Good point. If a player tests positive for drugs and only gets a year, then why in the world would something like this deserve a harsher penalty?
I could see Hunter telling KC... if you guys beat "Team X" then I'll give every player on the team a brand new car. Something like that defintately wouldn't be excusable.
I agree with their being a rule. I believe that if a player, manager, coach or front office personnel is disallowed from "rewarding" an opposing for beating a division rival team, then that removes not only impropriety, but any appearance of impropriety, which I feel may be even greater than this.

However, I believe that the 3-year suspension should be revisited, since if in the case of new cars or other gifts in the 5-figure price range, that could definitely be very harshly penalized. However, if it's merely a bunch of movie tickets or Godiva chocolates, I can't see that as a bribe, even to a rookie.

Perhaps a floating level of infraction based upon dollar amount or something else could be used, while creating a match floating level of penalties, with 3 years being the max, rather than standard.

Good thing for Torii that KC didn't open the bottles or its players being photographed drinking the champagne, or that might've created a much larger situation for him.

[catbox_9]

They need to do something. The 3 year suspension would be way too harsh. If it were up to me I'd make him buy 4 bottles of Dom Perignon for every team and suspend him a game.

[plask_stirlac]

And how do they repay him? He gets hit in the mouth with a pitch. Ouch.

(not intentionally, I know)

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Talk about irony.
He didn't get a slap on the wrist, he got a ball in the face!

Man, that musta hurt.