Where has the stride gone?

[Swing Coach]

When we were young, we were told to step into the ball, step at the pitcher etc. Now a generation of hitters has been drilled to death into eliminating the stride or gently stepping on eggshells so as not to lunge at the ball.

What to do with the stride, I believe, is one of the biggest confusions among young hitters and their instructors.

I have noticed that 90 percent of MLB hitters take a noticeable step toward the pitcher, thus moving their center of gravity forward and beginning their weight shift. At toe touch, they have about 50% of their weight on the front foot when it hits the ground. To compare, about 90 percent of high school hitters do not do this, instead keeping their weight back during the swing and with an explosive "spin."

Because these high school kids are hesitant to shift any weight forward when they stride, trying to teach weight shift is extremely difficult. Very few hs kids' back feet come up to tiptoe (like most MLB hitters) because they have been taught over and over to "KEEP YOUR WEIGHT BACK!"

Try this yourself....keep your weight back as you stride, then swing and attempt to get your back foot up to tiptoe. Impossible. Now, take a healthy stride so 50% of your weight moves forward and then explode in an attempt to get the back foot up to tiptoe. See the difference?

Do you all see this same problem as I see with HS hitters keeping their weight back throughout the entire swing? If so, don't we have a lot of hitters out there we need to "re-teach"....and doesn't it begin with teaching them how to shift their weight forward prior to their swing?

[swingbuster]

You are right

The last bit is torso stretch can come from the well timed weight shift in time with widening the x angle

Balance must be restored before launch. The NEW BALANCE center is forward of the zipper at launch

Strides must be there ( or shift if the stride distance is already in the wide stance) to establish lead side leverage only available in a forward balance center allowing the swing to rotate around the lead hip and release the back side

The two parts of the swing are widening the torque angle and shifting to a new balance center to leverage the release. Weight shift is best taught in the diagonal plane and by getting the hinge angle past the lead pocket before release. You cannot do that on the back foot.

The reason we do this..................................

By holding the ball from a two point fixation the ball can be struck on a diagonal swing path with no tee interference and contact.

This new tee concept is the missing link to creating line drive power , plate coverage, gap to gap ball flight distribution, and PROPER WEIGHT SHIFT.

Tees that have a flat top give the batter the sense of needing to lift the ball upward off the tee. This natural reaction of the body to avoid tee contact prevents proper weight shift and body axis formation prior to the actual swing.

While most MLB swings are slight upper cuts, any premature tilt of the body before the front foot gets down must be avoided. Current tees foster bad mechanics at an early age that can ingrain a flawed swing. They keep too much weight back forcing the top hand to round off the swing, circling the ball on the ground to third base over and over.

Taking the knob DIAGONALLY down to the ball and getting the hands infront of the ball drills proper weight shift and allows batter to most direct access to the ball center where compression is greatest.

.

[Swing Coach]

Swingbuster,

Who is your audience?........sounds like you are working on a first draft of a disertatation for the biomechanics of the swing and your audience is an elite scholarly "club" that only knows certain terminology. In my opinion, your post completely fogged up an important topic with terms such as:

"torso stretch....widening the x angle....lead side leverage....widening the torque angle...leverage the release...being taught in the diagonal plane...getting hingle angle past the lead pocket before release" etc...

Maybe I am wrong, but 90 percent of the coaches on this site don't know what you are talking about.

And the second half of your post (where you were trying to sell your products) really fogged things up.

I was simply asking about teaching the stride vs keeping the weight back and how things have changed. I wanted to know about coaches' experiences, their trials, what has worked, what resistance they get from players and other coaches etc. I wanted to know these things in the real world of teaching.

Now, is anybody still interested in talking about this or is the thread dead?

[tom.guerry]

Swing, I guess you are right.

I think the most important thing is :

"see ball. hit ball".

Yeah, that's it !

[Jake Patterson]

When we were young, we were told to step into the ball, step at the pitcher etc. Now a generation of hitters has been drilled to death into eliminating the stride or gently stepping on eggshells so as not to lunge at the ball.


I teach load and short stride. I feel this helps younger players with timing and rhythm. I also teach PCR and I do not believe the two are mutually exclusive. My audience is teenagers.

[bbjunkie]

Swingbuster,

Who is your audience?........sounds like you are working on a first draft of a disertatation for the biomechanics of the swing and your audience is an elite scholarly "club" that only knows certain terminology. In my opinion, your post completely fogged up an important topic with terms such as:"

LOL, welcome to baseball-fever. If you go back in time, there are a lot of threads on hitting, all of which swingbuster has contributed to loquaciously. It is my impression that a lot of the arguments between him and tom.guerry on one side and most others on the other side boil down to looking at the same thing and interpreting it differently.

One of the former posters on the other side is a guy named Steve Englishbey who teaches rotational hitting. He now has his own website where he does most his posting, but he does lurk here and, I think, occasionally post. (google him if you want to find the site, but part of it is restricted to people who have bought his dvd's) Steve uses a no stride approach in teaching a high level swing to kids, but, in some cases advises them to keep their stride because it doesn't interfere with the swing.

My interpretation is that he advocates balanced weight through the swing, with the heel of the back foot lifting off the ground being more the product of a powerful swing than something you are actively trying to do.

I was simply asking about teaching the stride vs keeping the weight back and how things have changed. I wanted to know about coaches' experiences, their trials, what has worked, what resistance they get from players and other coaches etc. I wanted to know these things in the real world of teaching.

Now, is anybody still interested in talking about this or is the thread dead?

I had Steve up to my locale last year. He worked with my son and some other kids on his LL team, as well as quite a few softball girls. My son and one other kid on the team (both 12yos) really profited from Steve's teaching and my following through on that teaching. The other two were younger and didn't gain quite as much, I think, largely from their ages. Steve put a bottom limit of 11 yo on kids who actually participated in the workshop. My own experience is that the younger kids just aren't mature enough physically and mentally to really grasp the ideas. That being said, I continued to teach the younger kids a kind of stripped down approach with some success.

In my opinion, as far as the stride goes, as long as the weight is balanced at the time of the swing, stride or no stride is pretty much irrelevant. I think of it as more of a timing and loading device than a momentum action. But, as I said, that's my opinion. I'm sure you will get a lot of responses that differ.

[Swing Coach]

Swing, I guess you are right.

I think the most important thing is :

"see ball. hit ball".

Yeah, that's it !

Tom,

Sorry I have offended you with a post that is about teaching. I see your reply has nothing to do with teaching hitting. Probably better that way (as many threads as you have ruined) with your pontificating and rambling about everything except the topic.

[Jake Patterson]

In my opinion, as far as the stride goes, as long as the weight is balanced at the time of the swing, stride or no stride is pretty much irrelevant....

And needs to be adjusted based on what the hitter is comfortable with. Many coaches will take a successful swing at the younger ages and make it unsuccessfull in pursuit of the grail. With younger hitters we should remember what we do is a process not an event. We must balance their capabilities and what they find successfull with what the final product should look like. At the younger ages strides can help.

[Swing Coach]

...

And needs to be adjusted based on what the hitter is comfortable with. Many coaches will take a successful swing at the younger ages and make it unsuccessfull in pursuit of the grail. With younger hitters we should remember what we do is a process not an event. We must balance their capabilities and what they find successfull with what the final product should look like. At the younger ages strides can help.


Speaking of the young....In an ALbert Pujols biography I have, there is a picture of his son (about 2-3 years-old) hitting off a tee and finishing his swing with his back toe up, laces at the pitcher....so I'm not sure if it is a matter of strength or just technique. I will be trying to get some young kids to take a stride (without lunging) this summer with the end result their back foot coming forward or up to toe. We'll see how it works.

[swingbuster]

SC

I used to think differently about the swing. I thought it was all about weight control . IOWs...getting drawn out front was the BIG problem....your right it is not really the biggest problem

The swing is about two things the way I organize it in my mind

1. Finding the power source

2. Managing the balance point

The power source is in stretch and momentum

Learning the baseball back swing and proper lower body mechanics is about stretching and creating the power source

Momentum and balance points ARE in the stride issue.

So you are right ...if you remove the stride totally in the game swing you are not left with a whole swing for many kids.

What did I see in real life coaching?

1. dead front foot hitters/ front side not accepting weight/ spinning

2. hinging the rear knee with all the weight back and top hand circling the ball

3. a front foot reach but no weight going forward

4. the head not staying over the belt buckle ( keeping a vertical body axis) to foot plant....premature lean back

5. No lead arm leverage off the back foot so I saw top hand dominace made worse/ rounding off the swing with the top hand

6. failure to get the lead leg extension that finishes the hips turn to completion before contact

7 the hands passing the hips and hitting the ball and THEN the hip turn completes in the follw through

8. NO outside and away plate coverage

9 taking call strikes on outside part of plate

10 the inability to get inside the baseball with a back foot swing

I think you identified a BIG PROBLEM

[Jesse]

My coaching experience has been limited to 5-6 yo's up to this point. I've found that a lot of them aren't coordinated enough to stride without it negatively impacting their swing. I take great care to position them the correct distance from the tee, get them in an athletic stance, hands up and back, bat off the shoulder, elbow back, etc. Then they take that stride, and everything falls apart.

On the other hand, I've worked with several kids who take a stride and hit just fine with it.

I teach no-stride for the most part, but I don't force the issue. If a kid is taking a stride and seems to be hitting well I'm not inclined to monkey with them too much. I'm still not convinced, based on all the back-and-forth I've read, that no-stride is 100% the way to go. I think it can vary from kid to kid.

[yuniesky4prez]

Okay, the reason i think that coaches are now telling kids younger, to not lunge or stride large but to keep their weight back because, kids are throwing curve balls younger by the day. And if your out on your front foot, your screwed.

[swingbuster]

The swing has two parts

1. take the baseball backswing get the foot down and rotate

2. Move the center of gravity forward to stay in balance when you launch the bat

watch the Power Point and you will get these parts better. I spent $350 to get it set up to show aspiring coaching what is happening. It tool me 13 years....maybe you can be smarter quicker

http://www.swingbuster.com/SWINGBUSTER%20INTRO(slide).html