Greg Maddux Win Tracker

[nerfan]

Countdown to surpassing all those guys ahead of Mad Dog

[catbox_9]

Nice to see another Maddux fan. On my list of all-time favorite players in all sports I go:
1. Ty Cobb
2. Bobby Layne (football)
3. Gordie Howe (hockey)
4. Steve Yzerman (hockey)
5. Al Kaline
6. Barry Sanders (football)
7. Greg Maddux


As a Detroit fan it's quite an honor for a non-Detroit athlete to rank that high. I don't think there are any others in the top 50 on my list.

I'll take Maddux over Clemens any day.

The count is at 334

[geezer]

Nice to see that they're a lot of Greg Maddux fans around Detroit and other parts of the USA. I am personally follow much of Maddux's career, and was on TV when he went to win his 300th game, and it showed that Maddux still is a good pitcher despite his age.

In Puerto Rico, Maddux doesnt have much fans, a lot of people here dont like him because for a while Maddux refused to had Javy Lopez catch him when he started for the Braves, but then again, Maddux is still pitching great, and Javy Lopez is still without playing baseball. If Maddux can win at least 10 games, he breaks Cy Young's record of 19-straight 10-win seasons, and if he gets at least to 15 wins, he also breaks Cy Young's 18 career 15-win seasons.

BTW, Maddux's next start is Tuesday against his former team, the Cubbies in Chicago.

[catbox_9]

I've always admired Maddux. As I already said I'm a fan of his but even if I wasn't what's not too like. With all the technology today people are obsessed with speed. I've been sitting listening to a lot of conversations at Dodger Stadium lately (I have season tickets by myself so I mostly listen and but in on occasion when people say something very wrong or ask each other a question nobody can answer) and it's amazing how often you hear "this guy is terrible, his fastball is only 88....get him out of there".

I don't know when the average fan will learn but a Greg Maddux 88 MPH fastball is a lot harder to hit than a 95 MPH straight fastball right down the middle of the plate. Maddux is a thinking man's pitcher. He can't blow anything by you so he has to fool you and that's way more fun to watch than a 100 MPH fastball that the guy can't catch up with (but when he does it's long gone). One of the most exciting common events in baseball is a strikeout looking especially when the hitter doesn't argue and just walks away....he's been totally fooled. Maddux is a master at doing that hence 3000+ K's despite the inability to top 90.

[Brian McKenna]

I'll take Maddux over Clemens any day.
The count is at 334

Note: He has more professional wins than Clemens and is four years younger and won't ever be tossed into a 'roids controversy. Plus, the big one - it is much easier to be a successful ML pitcher if you throw 95+ mph heat.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I've had the pleasure of seeing Greg toss a 4-hit shutout against the Expos on May 6, 1994. :) I've also had the displeasure of seeing him lose a duel to Randy Johnson in 1998. Andruw Jones had a home run against Billy Wagner in that game, incidentally.

Keep chugging along, Greg. :D

[Honus Wagner Rules]

If Maddux can win at least 10 games, he breaks Cy Young's record of 19-straight 10-win seasons, and if he gets at least to 15 wins, he also breaks Cy Young's 18 career 15-win seasons.

Are those really "records"? :confused:

[catbox_9]

Are those really "records"? :confused:

Sure they are. If someone does something more often than anyone else ever has it's a record. If they kept stats on which pitchers won the most games on days where the guy in the front row behind home plate wore an oragne shirt and was drunk by the third inning I'd consider that a record, too (although it'd be rather meaningless).

I think the records Maddux is going after are very legitimate because they make sense and are easy to explain. My foolish example would technically be a record but would have no merit.

[catbox_9]

Current All-Time Wins Leaders:

Name.............................................. .....Maddux Trails By X Wins....................................Odds of getting there (my estimate)
Cy Young............................................. .............177.................................. ....................................0.01%
Walter Johnson........................................... .........83....................................... .................................0.9%
400 Wins.............................................. .............66................................... .......................................1.5%
375 Wins.............................................. ..............41.................................. .........................................25%
Alexander/Matthewson........................................ .39............................................... ...........................33.3%
Pud Gavin............................................. ..............30.................................. ........................................45%
Warren Spahn............................................. .........29....................................... ..................................50%
Kid Nichols........................................... .................27............................... ...........................................55%
350 Wins.............................................. ..............16.................................. ........................................80%
Roger Clemens........................................... .........14....................................... ....................................85%
Tim Keefe............................................. ...............8.................................. .........................................95%
GREG MADDUX............................................ ......0........................................... .............................. 100%
Steve Carlton........................................... ...........N/A................................................. ........................100%

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Sure they are. If someone does something more often than anyone else ever has it's a record. If they kept stats on which pitchers won the most games on days where the guy in the front row behind home plate wore an oragne shirt and was drunk by the third inning I'd consider that a record, too (although it'd be rather meaningless).

I think the records Maddux is going after are very legitimate because they make sense and are easy to explain. My foolish example would technically be a record but would have no merit.

Here is my issue with Maddux's 15 win streak. Technically, he did break Cy Young's streak of 15 straight 15 win seasons. But 15 wins is an artibrary cuttoff point. During Young's streak he win totals were

27, 36, 34, 26, 35, 28, 21, 25, 26, 19, 33, 32, 28, 26, 18

This comes out to 28 wins per season. After Young had a 13 win season in 1906 he came back with a 21, 21, and 19 win season afterwards. During Madudux's 17 sonsective 15+ win seasons he average 17 wins per season. I don't see the two streaks as comparable. It would be like saying that player B broke player A's record with 20 straight years of 150+ hit seasons. But if player A average 195 hits/season for 19 years and player B average 155 hits/season for 20 years which streak is more impressive?

Don't get me wrong, Maddux's streak is great. It's just not comparable to Young's streak IMHO.

[catbox_9]

Clearly Young's is much, much more impressive but I still think Maddux deserves recognition as well. I'm not sure of what the record is for consecutive 2+ win seasons but if one guy does it 25 years in a row with 2-5 wins a year and another guy wins 15+ for 24 years, 2 for another and 10 for the final year the first guy still gets the record.

[Brooklyn]

Current All-Time Wins Leaders:

Name.............................................. .....Maddux Trails By X Wins....................................Odds of getting there (my estimate)
Cy Young............................................. .............177.................................. ....................................0.01%
Walter Johnson........................................... .........83....................................... .................................0.9%
400 Wins.............................................. .............66................................... .......................................1.5%
375 Wins.............................................. ..............41.................................. .........................................25%
Alexander/Matthewson........................................ .39............................................... ...........................33.3%
Pud Gavin............................................. ..............30.................................. ........................................45%
Warren Spahn............................................. .........29....................................... ..................................50%
Kid Nichols........................................... .................27............................... ...........................................55%
350 Wins.............................................. ..............16.................................. ........................................80%
Roger Clemens........................................... .........14....................................... ....................................85%
Tim Keefe............................................. ...............8.................................. .........................................95%
GREG MADDUX............................................ ......0........................................... .............................. 100%
Steve Carlton........................................... ...........N/A................................................. ........................100%

I'm surprised your over/under is at 29 more wins. That seems a little high to me. He is only signed through this year, but I can see him playing 1 one year. Still, that is 15 wins per year for two years. Seems a little high for the 50/50 line. I'd probalby put the 50/50 line closer to 18 wins, depending highly on how many more years he wants to pitch. I'd like to see him keep going and catch Spahn - to me that is a significant milestone, since he is the top pitcher since the 20's

I'd also put the odds of him cathcing Clemens at less than 85%. While I think there is a very good chance he'll get tohe 14 wins, I also think there is a good chance that Clemens will pitch this season and make it a moving target

[catbox_9]

First I'll respond the the Clemens part....I put the 85% at getting 14 more wins. I agree he has less than an 85% chance of being ahead of Clemens 10 years from no. Since we don't know what Clemens will end up doing I'm pretending he'll go no further.

As for my 50/50 being 29 more wins, I think he's got a shot at 15 wins twice more although that'll be difficult. I've got a feeling he'll pitch this year and at least 2 more. I don't have a reason to think that but I figure he's that much younger than Clemens so he might as well. Also, if one of them wanted to challenge Ryan's age record I think Maddux would get there before Clemens since he doesn't rely on velocity as much.

[STLCards2]

I've had the pleasure of seeing Greg toss a 4-hit shutout against the Expos on May 6, 1994. :) I've also had the displeasure of seeing him lose a duel to Randy Johnson in 1998. Andruw Jones had a home run against Billy Wagner in that game, incidentally.

Keep chugging along, Greg. :D

The only game I saw Maddux pitch in person was the famous "Ankiel" game - game 1 of the 2000 NLDS. The Cardinals pounded Maddux (one of my favorite pitchers ever), but I didn't mind seeing him get ripped for once. I have also had the pleasure of seeing Clemens in person (gave up no runs in a 8-ining no desicion.) I saw Randy Johnson throw a 7 inning, no run effort against the Cards, and I watched Glavine beat the Cardinal twice, 6-1 and 6-3. I still haven't seen Pedro yet.

[geezer]

BTW, Maddux's next start is tomorrow afternoon against his former team, the Cubbies in Chicago.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

First I'll respond the the Clemens part....I put the 85% at getting 14 more wins. I agree he has less than an 85% chance of being ahead of Clemens 10 years from no. Since we don't know what Clemens will end up doing I'm pretending he'll go no further.

As for my 50/50 being 29 more wins, I think he's got a shot at 15 wins twice more although that'll be difficult. I've got a feeling he'll pitch this year and at least 2 more. I don't have a reason to think that but I figure he's that much younger than Clemens so he might as well. Also, if one of them wanted to challenge Ryan's age record I think Maddux would get there before Clemens since he doesn't rely on velocity as much.
Yes but Clemens has much more velocity he can lose before he would become an unproductive major league pitcher. Maddux doesn't have much to lose in terms of velocity before he becomes unproductive. Yes, Maddux is a wizzard with his control and mixing his pitches but if his fastball go down to 81-82 mph he's through as a major league pitcher. Plus Clemens will be 45 this summer so he's much closer to Ryan. Maddux is only 41. But I think we've seen the last of Clemens. I don't think he's coming back anymore.

[catbox_9]

Maybe what I should have said is that Clemens has at most half a season left while Maddux coud potentially have 3-4 (or even 5+) more years. I don't know if he can get 5 but I don't think 3 is an impossibility.

Too bad he couldn't develop a knuckleball because he's a clever enough pitcher to get to 400 wins if he could master a style that required no velocity. Like you said, you don't need speed to be effective but if you're relying on a fastball that's 80 MPH, you're in a lot of trouble. As much as I hate the Yankees a part of me wishes he'd go there because with their offense he could probably win 20 games while in San Diego he has to practically have a no-hitter just to get a win.

[Edgartohof]

Note: He has more professional wins than Clemens and is four years younger and won't ever be tossed into a 'roids controversy. Plus, the big one - it is much easier to be a successful ML pitcher if you throw 95+ mph heat.

What's a "professional" win?

If you are just talking about Wins, then you are wrong, Clemesn still is leading, with 348 wins, to Maddux and his 334 (14 wins more than Maddux).

[geezer]

If Clemens doesnt pitch again this season or ever, Maddux can tie Clemens' win mark by the end of this season.

[Brian McKenna]

What's a "professional" win?

If you are just talking about Wins, then you are wrong, Clemesn still is leading, with 348 wins, to Maddux and his 334 (14 wins more than Maddux).

A professional win includes their minor league career. Maddux has 36 minor league wins, Clemens 12.

[Brian McKenna]

During Madudux's 17 sonsective 15+ win seasons he average 17 wins per season. I don't see the two streaks as comparable.

Considering the era differences - how is averaging 17 wins a season not as eye popping? And from a guy that didn't throw the heat Young did!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

A professional win includes their minor league career. Maddux has 36 minor league wins, Clemens 12.

Of course Maddux is going to have more minor league wins. Maddux went to the minor leagues right out of high school and Clemens didn't. Clemens went to Texas University and pitched three years there.

[catbox_9]

Cubs v Maddux is underway

[catbox_9]

And Maddux will settle for a ND. He had a 2 run lead going into the 5th before the CFer misplayed a ball and 2 runs scored. They were both earned but if the play was made neither would have scored. In the 6th Maddux still had a chance to win with runners on 1st and 2nd no outs before a bad bunt didn't advance the runners and then a 4-6-3 ended the inning.

Maddux pitched well enough to win but the Padres couldn't do much for him. They had chances but wasted them. Maddux should have stayed in LA, they're a lot better.

[geezer]

Maddux pitched well enough to win but the Padres couldn't do much for him. They had chances but wasted them. Maddux should have stayed in LA, they're a lot better.

Possible because LA didnt offer him anything.

[catbox_9]

I didn't really pay attention to his free agency....did LA say they didn't want him or they just wouldn't pay him much? He's made 9 figures playing baseball so I don't see why these guys make a big deal about making an extra million or two.

[geezer]

I didn't really pay attention to his free agency....did LA say they didn't want him or they just wouldn't pay him much? He's made 9 figures playing baseball so I don't see why these guys make a big deal about making an extra million or two.

I think that the Padres show a lot of interest in having Maddux in the rotation, and they make him feel comfortable at home.

[BigStellyPADRES4LIFE]

And Maddux will settle for a ND. He had a 2 run lead going into the 5th before the CFer misplayed a ball and 2 runs scored. They were both earned but if the play was made neither would have scored. In the 6th Maddux still had a chance to win with runners on 1st and 2nd no outs before a bad bunt didn't advance the runners and then a 4-6-3 ended the inning.

Maddux pitched well enough to win but the Padres couldn't do much for him. They had chances but wasted them. Maddux should have stayed in LA, they're a lot better.

Make that statement later in the year when there are more than oh 10-15 games played. The Dodgers are NOT alot better or even better IMO, dont believe me just look at the records when the two teams play each other.

[catbox_9]

When I say the Dodgers are better I think their offense is better. The Padres have some really good pitchers but having a guy like say Jake Peavy (who was a PH today) doesn't really do Maddux any good while he's pitching. The Dodgers have a much better lineup but overall I think the two teams are fairly equal (although I'll still give the slight edge to LA).

The only thing Maddux has going for him is that Petco, like Dodger Stadium is a pretty good pitchers park and the Padres are the type of team that is designed to win 3-2 not 11-10.

[Brian McKenna]

Maddux went to the minor leagues right out of high school and Clemens didn't. Clemens went to Texas University and pitched three years there.

Ergo more professional victories however you do the math.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Ergo more professional victories however you do the math.
And? No one really careers about Maddux minor league wins. Just because Maddux has more minor league wins doesn't make him better than Clemens.

[geezer]

Minor league wins means nothing compared to having big league wins.

[catbox_9]

Minor league wins don't really matter but technically Maddux has won more games at the professional level. Just because they don't matter doesn't make it any less true. Whoever won more games in little league or high school won more games at that level. It doesn't matter but it's still true.

[geezer]

And Greg Maddux won today, beating the Dodgers 3-2, where he pitched 7 strong innings, and didnt allowed a run after the 3rd inning. As of today, Maddux has a 2-2 record, and has now 335 career wins.

Greg Maddux 2007 Stats:

2-2, 3.86 ERA, 17 Ks, 4 BB, and 30.1 IP

[Brian McKenna]

It would be amazing if he actually retires with less than 1,000 walks.

[Brian McKenna]

And? No one really careers about Maddux minor league wins. Just because Maddux has more minor league wins doesn't make him better than Clemens.

Yes, it's obvious that you don't see Maddux as better than Clemens. Perhaps a few more of your negative posts in a Maddux thread might enlighten us all.

[geezer]

Right now, Maddux can win 14 more games this years, and surpass Clemens' career total, of course, if Clemens doesnt come back.

[catbox_9]

And Greg Maddux won today, beating the Dodgers 3-2, where he pitched 7 strong innings, and didnt allowed a run after the 3rd inning. As of today, Maddux has a 2-2 record, and has now 335 career wins.

Greg Maddux 2007 Stats:

2-2, 3.86 ERA, 17 Ks, 4 BB, and 30.1 IP

I was at the game. It was the first time I ever saw Maddux in person and it was pretty exciting. It was my first trip to Petco, too (I was at Friday's game as well and I have now seen every California park that's still in use).

The game didn't start out all that great for Maddux but after he gave up that second run he showed why he's won 334 (and now 335) games. Also, I was glad to see Hoffman get a save (it's pretty cool when he comes out) and set the ML record for most appearances with 1 team.

[mwb]

I don't know much about Maddux personally. Is he the kind of player that would hang on to beef up his stats? Would he keep playing because he can't pull himself out of the game?

Based on how great he's been, I can't see him hanging on. I do think if he's decent, someone would continue to give him a chance. But it seems every year could be his last.

[geezer]

Same as Clemens

[SamtheBravesFan]

Maddux has said before that the second he thinks he can't pitch anymore, he'll retire.

[geezer]

Maddux has said before that the second he thinks he can't pitch anymore, he'll retire.

If he can still win at least 15 games every season, he will go on.

[geezer]

And Greg Maddux pitched a gem tonight, beating the Cincinnati Reds 7-1, Maddux didnt allowed a hit until the 6th inning. Maddux went the distance tonight, allowing 5 hits, struck out 5 with no walks and an earned run in the 9th, and only had 96 pitches, and its his 336th career win.

Maddux 2007 Stats:

3-2, 3.20 ERA and 31 Ks.

Maddux next start is over the weekend @ Seattle.

[catbox_9]

I was at the Dodger game tonight (I'm a season ticket holder....yet I don't really care for the Dodgers). The whole time I was scoreboard watching. As soon as it was 5-0 I knew Maddux would win....he has never lost with a 5 run lead (big deal, most managers won't let a guy blow a 5 run lead) and he has only 2 no decisions.

I was worried earlier in the year that he couldn't pitch anymore but he's been pitching pretty well lately. A complete game with under 100 pitches is pretty special.

Nice job Maddux!

[geezer]

He was Vintage Maddux last night, he has a 6 game winning streak against the Reds.

[Brian McKenna]

I was worried earlier in the year that he couldn't pitch anymore but he's been pitching pretty well lately.

Hasn't really looked bad all year. Could easily have 5 or 6 wins.

[geezer]

He needs more offensive support, he can easily win 17 games.

[catbox_9]

Hasn't really looked bad all year. Could easily have 5 or 6 wins.

His first start of the year was mediocre at best. His 335th win started out mediocre (2 quick ERs) but he fixed that rather quick retiring the last 14 batters.

I guess when you get no run support and look bad for a few batters it seems like a bad game.

[geezer]

His first start of the year was mediocre at best. His 335th win started out mediocre (2 quick ERs) but he fixed that rather quick retiring the last 14 batters.

I guess when you get no run support and look bad for a few batters it seems like a bad game.

Same as Clemens in 2005.

[geezer]

And Maddux won tonight, beating the Brewers 8-6, it was a little scary start for Maddux and the Padres Bullpen, allowing 3 runs by Maddux in the 6th, and Brocail allowing 3 more in the 7th. Maddux is 4-3 for the year, is his 337th career victory, and 11 more wins at least this season for his record 19th 15-win season.

[catbox_9]

11 more wins will be tough as he hasn't gotten a ton of run support this year. His ERA+ is around 100 which doesn't help either. He's been looking really good lately (other than against Seattle).

Through 5 innings tonight Maddux had a 50 pitch shutout going but he struggled a bit in the 6th. He got win #337 and that's all that counts.

[rdonahue]

I'd have thought somebody would have bumped this by now, but I guess I will.

Greg Maddux beat his former (well, sort of) team tonight at Petco Park. He now has 338 more wins than me.

[geezer]

I'd have thought somebody would have bumped this by now, but I guess I will.

Greg Maddux beat his former (well, sort of) team tonight at Petco Park. He now has 338 more wins than me.

MAddux pitched a good game, and the bullpen shut out the rest of the Dodgers in the meantime, and later Trevor Time, his milestone overshadowed Maddux's performance.

[geezer]

And yesterday, Greg Maddux beat his old team, the Chicago Cubs by the score of 11-3, Maddux pitched well despite giving up 3 runs, and won for the first time on the road this season. Right now, he is 6-3, and his next start will be against the Red Sox in Petco Park. Maddux is 9 wins away for his projected 19th 15-win season, and has 339 career wins now in his belt, go Maddux go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brian McKenna]

He continues to pitch the same game in and game out. Gets ahead of batters, doesn't walk anyone, moves the ball around, ignores the runners, changes pitch selection. A real joy to watch his command of the game and appoach to every at bat. Some may like to see the flamethrowers just zip it in - me I'll take the 41-year-old with an 82-mph-fastball anyday. It's the difference between studying the game or just sitting back and seeing if pitcher-x can blow it by the next batter.

[rdonahue]

Greg Maddux has won his 340th game. He's 2 behind Keefe, 9 behind Clemens, and 10 back of 350. Way to go Mr. Maddux!

[geezer]

Greg Maddux has won his 340th game. He's 2 behind Keefe, 9 behind Clemens, and 10 back of 350. Way to go Mr. Maddux!


Great game for Maddux, his only blemish was that homer of Pedro Feliz in the 2nd inning. At least Maddux has 2 more starts before the All-Star Break.

[otis89]

Maddux is awesome. I still can't believe the Cubs traded him for Cesar Izturis.

[geezer]

Maddux is awesome. I still can't believe the Cubs traded him for Cesar Izturis.

The Cubs should've trade Maddux a lot sooner than last year, anyway, anyplace outside of the Cubs is a good deal.

[Whitesoxnut]

Maddux is one of my favorite ballplayers of all time. A real competitor and a class act. I was sorry to see him leave Chicago.

[geezer]

And I see Maddux pitching for the Padres in October, specially in the NLCS, thay may be their year.

[Brian McKenna]

Four years younger but only nine wins shy...not sure why so many think he is inferior to Clemens??

[Boston Boxer]

Four years younger but only nine wins shy...not sure why so many think he is inferior to Clemens??

i was just thinking the same thing the other day. I believe he racked up those wins in two years less than Clemens. I wonder why he is not talked about in the same breath as Clemens?

[Brian McKenna]

I wonder why he is not talked about in the same breath as Clemens?

Because of the favoritism granted power - power hitters and power pitchers. It doesn't matter what you do, if you don't continually wow the crowd with your power. Hey, do you think that's why so many athletes use PEDs?

[geezer]

And in 2 fewer seasons, and fewer stints on the DL than Clemens.

[Brian McKenna]

Why was Maddux pulled the other night after 5 perfect innings and just 65 pitches? Anyone see the game?

[Steven Bryant]

Why was Maddux pulled the other night after 5 perfect innings and just 65 pitches? Anyone see the game?
Hamstring tightness.

[rdonahue]

Why was Maddux pulled the other night after 5 perfect innings and just 65 pitches? Anyone see the game?

He gave up a few hits so he wasn't pefrect per se. Too bad his bullpen blew it. To make matters worse, the offense then bailed out the reliever (I think Linebrink). The winning pitcher had this line:

1.0 IP, Blown Save, 3ER:applaud:

[geezer]

He is just 3 wins shy of his record-setting 20th straight 10-win season, and needs 8 more for another record-setting 19th 15 win-season for his career.

[Robin Yount]

Gooooo Maddux. My question is this: Is 400 wins in the cards? Don't count it out folks

[geezer]

Gooooo Maddux. My question is this: Is 400 wins in the cards? Don't count it out folks

350 maybe, but 400, hugely doubtful.

[J W]

Because of the favoritism granted power - power hitters and power pitchers. It doesn't matter what you do, if you don't continually wow the crowd with your power. Hey, do you think that's why so many athletes use PEDs?

You mean like Clemens? ;)

If he ever gets busted, Maddux vs. Clemens would no longer be a debate.

[geezer]

I just hope that the Mad Dog can win tomorrow night @ Colorado.

[Brian McKenna]

He has to be getting the worst support of any pitcher in 2007.

Probably the worst run support, career, of any of the great pitchers.

[geezer]

He has to be getting the worst support of any pitcher in 2007.

Probably the worst run support, career, of any of the great pitchers.


Like Clemens 2 years ago with the Astros

[geezer]

Finally, after 48 days of waiting, Greg Maddux finally wins his 341st game of his illustrous career, by beating the Colorado Rockies 8-0, where he pitched 5 1/3 innings of scoreless ball, vintage Maddux, and finally the Padres supported him offensively. I just hope that the Mad Dog wins at least 5 or 6 games down the stretch if the Padres want to reach the playoffs.

[Rocket Fan Man]

Note: He has more professional wins than Clemens and is four years younger and won't ever be tossed into a 'roids controversy. Plus, the big one - it is much easier to be a successful ML pitcher if you throw 95+ mph heat.

It is also much easier to be a successful ML pitcher in the National League rather then the American League.

It is "No Coincidence" that only three pitcher in the ML have won "more"
then 301 wins and one of them is Walter Johnson.

Clemens has already proven what he can do in the National League pitching for the sorry scoring Houston Astros. I can only wounder what Clemens stats would be if he would have only pitched in the National League in his prime.

[geezer]

And Greg Maddux beat today the Houston Astros by the score of 5-3, where he pitched 6 strong innings, allowed 2 hits and only 1 run (a homer to Lance Berkman in the first inning), and he also went 2 for 2 in the game. Maddux has won now 2 straight starts and he is 1 win away for his record-breaking 20th straight 10+ win season, and he still has a lot of starts remaining and he can have also a record-setting 19th 15-win season. Maddux now has 342 wins, and he can be possibly the last pitcher to get to 350 career wins.

[rdonahue]

It is also much easier to be a successful ML pitcher in the National League rather then the American League.

It is "No Coincidence" that only three pitcher in the ML have won "more"
then 301 wins and one of them is Walter Johnson.

Clemens has already proven what he can do in the National League pitching for the sorry scoring Houston Astros. I can only wounder what Clemens stats would be if he would have only pitched in the National League in his prime.

It's easier to have a lower ERA in the NL, but it's far from easier to have more wins in the NL. NL pitchers often leave games earlier due to the fact they have to hit. Take last year for example, 2 AL pitchers had 19 wins, 0 NL pitchers did.

[rdonahue]

And Greg Maddux beat today the Houston Astros by the score of 5-3, where he pitched 6 strong innings, allowed 2 hits and only 1 run (a homer to Lance Berkman in the first inning), and he also went 2 for 2 in the game. Maddux has won now 2 straight starts and he is 1 win away for his record-breaking 20th straight 10+ win season, and he still has a lot of starts remaining and he can have also a record-setting 19th 15-win season. Maddux now has 342 wins, and he can be possibly the last pitcher to get to 350 career wins.


Maddux is looking good. He's known for being better in the second half than first, so hopefully that can continue. If only the Padres could score him some runs. 10 wins looks like a lock, 15 will be very tough since he still needs 6 more - I'd have to check but best case scenario he has 10 starts left (I think it's closer to 7-8).

On another note, he now has 342 wins which puts him in a tie with Tim Keefe for 9th all-time. He trails Roger Clemens by 11 and Kid Nichols by 17.

[Rocket Fan Man]

It's easier to have a lower ERA in the NL, but it's far from easier to have more wins in the NL. NL pitchers often leave games earlier due to the fact they have to hit. Take last year for example, 2 AL pitchers had 19 wins, 0 NL pitchers did.


I agree, but dont you think if you have to throw to a pitcher 3-4 times a game not only will your ERA be lower but you would also have more K's and much less BB's ???? Would a "Power Pitcher" like Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson who at their prime overpowerd batters have more SHO and CG tharefore have more chances at getting more Wins...... :twocents:

I do think when Maddux reaches 350 he will be the last.
The big question for me is does Clemens or Maddux have gas left to get past
Pud Galvin, Kid Nickols and Warren Spahn at 363 wins?:crossfingers:

[downstairs]

It's easier to have a lower ERA in the NL, but it's far from easier to have more wins in the NL. NL pitchers often leave games earlier due to the fact they have to hit. Take last year for example, 2 AL pitchers had 19 wins, 0 NL pitchers did.

I am curious if that can be proven with a better sample size? I agree its probably true, but don't have the stats to look it up.

Does the starting pitcher in the AL get more wins per outing than the starting pitcher in the NL?

Anyone?

[Rocket Fan Man]

I don't know if this is a good enough sample, but it works for me.
Look up Roger Clemens stats 04,05,06 when he pitched for Houston way past his prime. Also you can look up Randy Johnson's stats befoe the trade to New York. He wasent that good in the AL past his prime. He did win 17 games but he got a whole lot of run support that year.:lookitup

[Brooklyn]

I am curious if that can be proven with a better sample size? I agree its probably true, but don't have the stats to look it up.

Does the starting pitcher in the AL get more wins per outing than the starting pitcher in the NL?

Anyone?


Looking at the last 4 years. here are the outcomes of the starting pitcher:

2007 NL 1984 games started. 673-710
2007 AL 1734 games started. 630-622

2006 NL 2590 games started. 879-931
2006 AL 2268 games started. 844-808

2005 NL 2594 games started. 919-932
2005 AL 2268 games started. 822-796

2004 NL 2590 games started. 880-889
2004 AL 2266 games started. 777-797

Total NL: 9,758 games started. 3,351-3,462. 34.3% wins, 35.5% losses
Total AL: 8,536 games started. 3,073-3,023. 36.0% wins, 35.4% losses

It does look like there is a higher percentage of wins in the AL, with the same percentage of losses. Hard to tell what other factors go into this, but it looks like it is consistent with your theory.

However, over the same timeframe, I looked at innings pitched per start. The NL average is 5.874 and the average in the AL is 5.903. Not really much of a difference, equating to 1 extra out every 11 or so starts. This is inconsistent with NL pitchers leaving earlier due to the fact they have to hit.

[geezer]

Maddux possible next start will be against Jamie Moyer and the Phillies @ Citizens Bank Park

[cbenson5]

I don't know if this is a good enough sample, but it works for me.
Look up Roger Clemens stats 04,05,06 when he pitched for Houston way past his prime. Also you can look up Randy Johnson's stats befoe the trade to New York. He wasent that good in the AL past his prime. He did win 17 games but he got a whole lot of run support that year.:lookitup

You can't look at one or two people's numbers and then come to a conclusion about relative difficulty of play in each league. I could look at Barry Zito or Tim Hudson's numbers and come to the conclusion that the NL is much tougher than the AL. Randy Johnson actually posted his lowest single season ERA in the AL. Pitchers face tougher lineups in the AL than in the NL due to the DH, but they are at a disadvantage in that they have to hit. This requires extra work in the form of batting practice for NL pitchers. When they are running on the basepaths it takes steam out of their legs. Getting jammed on a pitch hurts their hands. Doing what Maddux has done in the national league is an incredible accomplishment and should not be demeaned because he didn't face the DH every time out.

Charles

[Rocket Fan Man]

Barry Zito or Tim Hudson's are not power pitchers Like Clemens or Johnson.
And that still does not explain why Clemens had great numbers the last three years he pitched for Houston. Pitching to a DH batting 300++ with Home run power is the big differance rather than pitching to a pitcher and getting some sort of out via grounder or maybe K if your a power pitcher. A pitcher at best will get one hit single every 10 at bats...

[csh19792001]

Does Greg Maddux have his own thread somewhere on this site?

In any case, tonight Greg Maddux became the only pitcher in the entire history of baseball to win at least 10 games for 20 straight seasons. Think of that- every year since 1988!!! And only one losing season in twenty years!!

It's doubtful that we'll ever see two contemporaneous pitchers like Clemens and Maddux ever again.

[geezer]

And he can still have a shot at 15 wins, and if he gets 15 at least this year, it will also be a record breaker 19 15-win seasons, breaking a tie also with Cy Young.

[rdonahue]

I watched today's game while waiting out a FOUR HOUR rain delay (Tigers-Yankees). Maddux looked great and my Tigers won at 3:30 AM local time (12:30 here in CA).

Maddux wins, Clemens gets a no decision and Maddux is 10 wins shy of Clemens. He passed Keefe tonight.

[geezer]

His next start is against Arizona @ Petco Park, the team with his worst career record against.

[plask_stirlac]

It is also much easier to be a successful ML pitcher in the National League rather then the American League.

It is "No Coincidence" that only three pitcher in the ML have won "more"
then 301 wins and one of them is Walter Johnson.

Clemens has already proven what he can do in the National League pitching for the sorry scoring Houston Astros. I can only wounder what Clemens stats would be if he would have only pitched in the National League in his prime.

Would it be harder for Maddux to win in the AL? He would have a DH to help him as well, unless he played for Minnesota.

We'd still use ERA+, PRAA, PRAR, WARP, ERC+. Advantages for him in the NL were given to all other teams. Is there a metric that is relative to all of MLB?

Certainly (to me), an AL pitcher with a 3.50 ERA should get more credit than a 3.50 ERA NL pitcher, pretty much every season. But before 2004, Maddux was more effective than Clemens and more consistent. Clemens should get credit for his resurgence, but Maddux also had the advantage in the 90s, especially 92-96.

[csh19792001]

Would it be harder for Maddux to win in the AL? He would have a DH to help him as well, unless he played for Minnesota.

True. Maddux would have a DH in his lineup, and also would be able to dedicate much more time to resting and/or pitching, since he would never have to practice hitting, bunting, and sac bunting. Bunting is a craft, and mastering it is incredibly difficult and time consuming. Maddux has had 174 sacrifice hits in his career, which undoubtedly led to many, many close games won. How many games did Clemens win with a perfect bunt in a key situation?

Also, if Maddux had played in the AL for the last 22 years, he'd have never had to run the bases and would basically never risk pulling a hamstring or getting in a collsion as a result of playing on both sides of the ball. He'd be most rested both during and between games.

All told, he'd have an easier job than someone spending 22 years in the AL. Keep in mind that all of the "adjusted" metrics make up for the DH, or lack thereof.


We'd still use ERA+, PRAA, PRAR, WARP, ERC+. Advantages for him in the NL were given to all other teams. Is there a metric that is relative to all of MLB?

Certainly (to me), an AL pitcher with a 3.50 ERA should get more credit than a 3.50 ERA NL pitcher, pretty much every season. But before 2004, Maddux was more effective than Clemens and more consistent. Clemens should get credit for his resurgence, but Maddux also had the advantage in the 90s, especially 92-96.

You're right about the raw earned run average, which is pretty much meaningless.

In terms of comparing Clemens and Maddux, it's clear Maddux is at least as great, and (depending on definition) perhaps greater than Roger Clemens.

Maddux has pitched a bit more, but Clemens during his best years was of much better quality.

During his best years Clemens pitched with much better quality? I can't see that at all. Here's a post I made earlier on this thread.

Entire post. (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=943253&postcount=43)

Maddux led the league in IP in 1991, 92, 93, 94, 95 and finished second in IP 1990 and 1996. His ERA+ over that 7 year run where he pitched more than anyone in baseball, he also maintained an incredible ERA+ of 202!!! During that span he also put up back to back ERA+'s of 259 and 273.

In terms of quality, Clemens never approached Maddux's 1994 and 1995 seasons. That's even with his dubious post age 40 seasons with the Astros incorporated into the mix.

~Clemens has led the league in IP exactly twice in his entire 24 year career, and finished second only once.

~Maddux led 5 years in a row in IP and has also finished second three times. Despite being 4 years younger and coming into the league basically 3 years later than Roger, he's only 150 career IP behind.

Maddux was the best (or at least, most valuable) pitcher of the 1990's, and more importantly he did it with so much less god-given raw power/talent than Clemens. In terms of value, it seems that Maddux>Clemens from 90-99' is the conclusion arrived at whether one chooses to use more conventional measures or lesser known derivations.

It may be close, but then again, it contradicts your statement above.

The Top Pitchers of the 1990s
(http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=416)
Supplemental Article (http://www.baseballguys.com/rayflowersWHIParticle.pdf)

Add to that the fact that I don't recall the spectre of steroids hanging around Maddux. Clemens is another case entirely.

[rdonahue]

Maddux pitched a great game tonight (7 IP, 1 ER), but got nothing to show for it. C'mon Padres....give him some run support!

[Old Sweater]

Like what Maddux had to say about his no walks streak.

Maddux isn't getting all worked up about it.

"I don't worry about it, you know?" he said. "Strikeouts and walks are overrated. I think I've just been fortunate enough to be in a position where I haven't had to walk anybody.

[geezer]

Lets's hope that Maddux reached at least 3 more wins this season, now that the Padres are back on fire baby!!!!!

[catbox_9]

Maddux pitched rather well today. The Padres are scoring runs, too. He'll go 6.1+ IP and give up 6 hits, strike out 5, and as you'd expect - no walks. In typical Maddux fashion, he needed 82 pitches to do it.

There's a runner on 2nd with 1 out he's responsible for so he'll allow 2-3 ERs today. It's 7-2 Padres. C'mon bullpen, don't blow it!

[catbox_9]

Maddux wins!

[geezer]

It was Maddux's first win in Arizona, and now he is 2-10 career against the D-Backs, and now has won his last 4 decisions, and possibly he can reach 14-15 wins for the first place San Diego Padres, and his consecutive innings walkless streak is still alive.

[cbenson5]

Well, Maddux now has 344 career wins. If he can win 30 more games, then he will be behind only Walter Johnson and Cy Young (it looks like Clemens is finally reaching the end of his career). I honestly think he is going to do it. What does everyone else think?

Charles

[geezer]

360 probably, 370 a long shot, 400 not even close.

[Sean Casey]

I think Maddux has a decent shot at 374 wins. After all, he's "only" 41...keep in mind that many lesser pitchers (Moyer, Wells, etc.) are several years older and are still pitching fairly effectively. If he can hang around for 3 more years (until he's 44) he should be able to win 30 games. In the past 3 years, Wells has won 24, and Moyer has won 36, so I see no reason why Maddux can't have similar success.

[geezer]

It also depends on 2 things:

1) if some team signs him after the 2008 season

and

2) if he wants to keep pitching after that season

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So what happened to the "theory" that modern players will not play as long as players from the past because they've made enough money? :happy:

[Brian McKenna]

To me it really doesn't matter if he passes Alexander and Mathewson. All these wins piled up during the deadball era aren't as impressive as everyone makes them. At least Young and Johnson pitched in some hitter's eras like Maddux, especially Young.

I would like to see Maddux end up with the most post-WWII wins. That would be a hell of a feat considering the era he pitched in.

[geezer]

To me it really doesn't matter if he passes Alexander and Mathewson. All these wins piled up during the deadball era aren't as impressive as everyone makes them. At least Young and Johnson pitched in some hitter's eras like Maddux, especially Young.

I would like to see Maddux end up with the most post-WWII wins. That would be a hell of a feat considering the era he pitched in.

And achieving that quietly without the exposure he deserves.

[catbox_9]

I think Maddux has a decent shot at 374 wins. After all, he's "only" 41...keep in mind that many lesser pitchers (Moyer, Wells, etc.) are several years older and are still pitching fairly effectively. If he can hang around for 3 more years (until he's 44) he should be able to win 30 games. In the past 3 years, Wells has won 24, and Moyer has won 36, so I see no reason why Maddux can't have similar success.

I've been saying this for a couple of years now. People go on and on how great Clemens is - he has 350 wins now! I mention Maddux and the average better than casual baseball fan (i.e. a fan who follows their team very close, and casually everyone else) thinks Maddux is merely okay and nowhere near Clemens. Barring injury, he will almost certainly pass Clemens in wins...he's 3.5 years younger!

[geezer]

I've been saying this for a couple of years now. People go on and on how great Clemens is - he has 350 wins now! I mention Maddux and the average better than casual baseball fan (i.e. a fan who follows their team very close, and casually everyone else) thinks Maddux is merely okay and nowhere near Clemens. Barring injury, he will almost certainly pass Clemens in wins...he's 3.5 years younger!


And 3 years younger when achieving his 300th win, Clemens did it at 40 almost 41, Maddux did it at 38.

[ReignInBlood]

Maddux won his game number 345 today after pitching 7 innings of one run ball against the Rockies at Colorado :o

[geezer]

Not only he won tonight his 345th game, which puts him in sole possession of 9th place in the all-time wins list, but he extended his streak to 54 1/3 consecutive innings without issuing a walk, and in another forum somebody said that he should retire along with Clemens, Mussina, and Wakefield to made room for younger prospects, yeah right, I agree with him, except for Maddux.

[catbox_9]

6 innings, 67 pitches. That pretty much says it all...

[Brian McKenna]

Maddux has the 12th best era in the NL and has pitched like a champ during the stretch run - with 16 teams that's ace material at age 41.

another forum somebody said that he should retire

Even with all the good poeple at BBF, it's amazing all the weak minds out there that just want to mouth off without the brains of a sick monkey. I understand it to an extent in the Current Events forum where it is somewhat a part of the banter but it's quite a joke when they wander into the History forums.

It takes more than clicking and typing skills to hang at BBF - we should all call them out more often.

[geezer]

Even with all the good poeple at BBF, it's amazing all the weak minds out there that just want to mouth off without the brains of a sick monkey. I understand it to an extent in the Current Events forum where it is somewhat a part of the banter but it's quite a joke when they wander into the History forums.

It takes more than clicking and typing skills to hang at BBF - we should all call them out more often.

Dont worry, it wasnt here @ BBF, it was a forum un Puerto Rico that said that. But anyway, Maddux is on fire and he is pitching "Vintage Maddux" and the Padres are lucky he is winning since August and the Padres are wanting to win the NL West and not the Wild Card.

[nerfan]

I would not like to face the Pads in the playoffs. Their #3 starter is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, their ace is the Cy Young Award winner, and #2 had an ERA under 2 for a good chunk of the season.

[Brian McKenna]

I would not like to face the Pads in the playoffs. Their #3 starter is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, their ace is the Cy Young Award winner, and #2 had an ERA under 2 for a good chunk of the season.

Yeah but how many times has the Padres scored three runs or less this year?

[nerfan]

Yeah but how many times has the Padres scored three runs or less this year?

The Padres actually have an okay offense (except at Petco Park)

[rdonahue]

Maddux vs. David Wells tonight at Dodger Stadium. I have tickets!

[geezer]

40 vs. 40 matchup, worth seeing again, and I hope Maddux wins tonight.

[fenrir]

watching Maddux is a joy. what he has accomplished in this era is amazing. and he's not involved in any roid scandals whatsoever. truly an alltime great. a unanimous hofer in my book.

[fenrir]

Maddux vs. David Wells tonight at Dodger Stadium. I have tickets!

you lucky dog

[rdonahue]

you lucky dog

Not much of a game. Tickets weren't any good either. I have season tickets and some random guy walked up to me and gave me free tickets in the club level section. I'd never sit there again.

This isn't a Dodger Stadium/Dodger fan bashing thread so that's all I'll say.

Even Maddux can't be great every time, he'll get 'em next time (probably)!

[geezer]

Maddux is 2-1 against the Dodgers this season, well nobody knew that Wells hit 2 hits against him, and Maddux failed to finish the 4th inning, but the Dodgers are a little hot lately and are now trying to get closer to the Padres in the NL Wild Card Race, interesting. Maddux next start is next Tuesday against the Pirates @ Petco Park.

And the walkless innings streak continues @ 57 2/3 innings.

[geezer]

Greg Maddux just won today, beating the Pirates by the score of 5-3, where he had a rough first inning, and in the 3rd inning issued his first walk in over 60+ innings, still yet he ended up with the victory thanks to the Padres scoring 3 times in the first, once in the second, and an insurance run in the 6th. Maddux is 13-10 on the season, and he still have 2 starts remaining, possibly one against the Rockies @ Petco, and his final @ Miller Park, we hope he can have a record 19th 15-win season.

[rdonahue]

Greg Maddux just won today, beating the Pirates by the score of 5-3, where he had a rough first inning, and in the 3rd inning issued his first walk in over 60+ innings, still yet he ended up with the victory thanks to the Padres scoring 3 times in the first, once in the second, and an insurance run in the 6th. Maddux is 13-10 on the season, and he still have 2 starts remaining, possibly one against the Rockies @ Petco, and his final @ Miller Park, we hope he can have a record 19th 15-win season.

Not the greatest game of his career, but a win is a win! 2 more for 15. With a little more run support he'd already be there...

[geezer]

Maddux has now a record 20 straight 13+ win seasons, surpassing Cy Young's 19 straight 13-win seasons, lucky 13s for the Mad Dog.

[M-e-T-s mets mets mets]

its amazin to thing that maddux smoltz and glavin all came from the same team at the same time and r three of the best pitchers in the league

i think that pitching coach should be considered for the hof

[geezer]

Too bad Mazzone's magic isnt working @ Baltimore, with the sole exception of Erik Bedard, and he missed the last month of this season, maybe 2008 will be the difference maker, yeah right.

[geezer]

Another thing I saw about Maddux, last night's win was Maddux's 125th win in the 2000s, leading all pitchers in that decade in wins, and to say that he led the league in victories in the 1990s (176 wins), no pitcher has ever lead the majors in wins for 2 separate decades.

[Brian McKenna]

its amazin to thing that maddux smoltz and glavin all came from the same team at the same time and r three of the best pitchers in the league

i think that pitching coach should be considered for the hof

Spell checker

Not to throw a wrench into the equation, but Maddux won his first of four consecutive Cy Youngs with the Cubs.

I respect Mazzone however the pitchers were just top notch. And, the injury factor (or lack of), save a few problems for Smoltz, plays a factor here.

[geezer]

And Maddux's last win of the season, proved to be necessary for the Padres, and lethal for the Brewers, as he beat the Milwaukee Brewers 6-3, eliminating them from playoff contention, and giving the Padres more ground for clinching the NL Wild Card. Maddux pitched 5 innings, allowing 3 runs and striking out 3 while not allowing a walk, and despite he struggled by giving 2 first inning runs and a solo homer by Corey Hart in the 4th inning, Maddux prevailed at the end, thanks to 3 RBIs by Khalil Greene, and Meredith gotting away from a bases loaded jam in the 6th, and a 1-2-3 9th inning by Trevor Hoffman.

Maddux finished the 2007 season with a modest 14-11 record, 4.14 ERA and 104 Strikeouts for the season, and finished 2 innings shy from another 200 inning season, but still finished with a winning season, and most importantly, another possible start in the playoffs, and he now has 347 career wins, and with also aspirations for a record 17th gold glove.

[rockin500]

gotta love maddux. my favorite.

he may not have the best stuff anymore, but hell he knows how to pitch.

[geezer]

Let's see how he pitches in the playoffs.

[rockin500]

Let's see how he pitches in the playoffs.
knowing the crafty mad dog, probably well.

as long as its not well against the cubs at any rate. ;)

[rdonahue]

Good enough game for Maddux. Not his best start but he got a win. Too bad he didn't get 1 more (he pitched well enough to get 15). Too bad he didn't get 2 more innings.

It's a season of almosts for Maddux but with the career he's had a season where he had a lot of bad breaks won't matter. For some guys that could be the difference between the HOF and not but for him it makes no difference.

He should get the Gold Glove. He made 1 error, always wins it, and had an outstanding RF9.

Nice season, Maddux!

[Brian McKenna]

Maddux had many top-notch games this season. His record should have been much better but the Padres simply don't score enough runs.

Maddux got rocked a few times this season but I would say no more than any other starter. His ERA by mid-September was stellar. He then took a couple of hits and it climbed over 4.00. But, IMO opinion that is more than okay because it shows the care which is being taken to preserve his 41-year-old arm - the ERA blew up because his IP are low.

Expecting more from Maddux with a team that scores so little is unrealistic. He was a major key in a probable playoff team - no almost in that. IP and K don't mean much at this point in the career anymore

I live in Baltimore, so I didn't get to see him pitch but maybe 5-6 times this year. He definitely earned another Gold Glove. He was superb - even making diving plays. How many times did I see other pitchers this year simply forget to cover 1B (Clemens for one) or handle a bunt correctly?

Never seen anyone just completely ignore base runners like Maddux but hell it works for him.

How he's done it year in and year out with the heat, sitting the best-hitting catcher and conceding movement on the bases is astounding.

What a game plan:
-no walks
-keeps the ball in the park
-utilizes the defense
-fields like a dream
-moves the ball all over the place
-first pitch strikes
-changes speeds
-gets ahead in the count
-seven different pitches
-doesn't stress about base runners
-focus, focus, focus
-sticks to the game plan

Amazingly there are pitchers who throw 100 mph but can't do any of the above. The Orioles have one - if he can't strike out the side, his brain goes to mush and he has no idea what pitching is about.

Read a quote recently in a new quotations book by a Cardinals catcher - something like - "If a pitcher spends time with Maddux and still doesn't get it (pitching), then he doesn't impress me."

[geezer]

He got 2 possible wins taken away thanks to Scott Linebrink allowing game tying 3-run homers to David Wright and Matt Holliday.

[AznInvasion]

gotta love maddux. my favorite.

he may not have the best stuff anymore, but hell he knows how to pitch.

I couldn't of said it any better. Maddog is a fierce competitor and gives 100% effort. I've never seen anyone paint the outside corner or have pinpoint control like Maddux. Maddux's backup fastball is amazing! Hudson throws a version but it's not quite as good as Maddux's back in the day.

[AznInvasion]

its amazin to thing that maddux smoltz and glavin all came from the same team at the same time and r three of the best pitchers in the league

i think that pitching coach should be considered for the hof

I appreciate that. Typical met fans are bitter about the braves pitchers. They all won 20 games in the same year a few times I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[geezer]

Little known Maddux Fact:

Everybody knows Greg Maddux won the most games during the 1990s with 176, but he also has won the most games during the 2000s with 126, 2 more than Randy Johnson and Tim Hudson.

[rdonahue]

Random thought (should have posted this earlier...it's kind of dumb now).

If the Padres lose and the Rockies win and the Phillies lose and the Mets win (not going to happen now though - they're down a ton) the Padres would play at least 1 playoff game (Peavy would pitch) and then if they win another one. Who would've pitched that? Young on short rest or Maddux on full rest?

If Maddux would've pitched he would almost certainly get to 200 innings (needs 2 more) and he'd have a shot at 15 wins (and what a win that would be). Pennant playoff numbers go towards regular season totals.

[geezer]

As of right now, since the Padres are trailing 10-4 in the 7th, and the Rockies are leading 1-0, also in the 7th, I think Peavy is more rested than Maddux, then again, you should put Maddux in relief form some case necessary.

[rdonahue]

As of right now, since the Padres are trailing 10-4 in the 7th, and the Rockies are leading 1-0, also in the 7th, I think Peavy is more rested than Maddux, then again, you should put Maddux in relief form some case necessary.

If the Mets wouldn't have laid an egg today everything else worked. We could've had a shot at Maddux in a 1-game playoff. No way you pitch him on short rest (2 days) over a well-rested triple-crown winner (Peavy).

[geezer]

If the Mets wouldn't have laid an egg today everything else worked. We could've had a shot at Maddux in a 1-game playoff. No way you pitch him on short rest (2 days) over a well-rested triple-crown winner (Peavy).

Sadly, this Wild Card playoff game has a con for the Padres, since Peavy will start tomorrow night, he will start late in the NLDS against the Phillies.

[geezer]

When its going to be Greg Maddux's first start of the 2008 season?

[Brian McKenna]

When its going to be Greg Maddux's first start of the 2008 season?

Can't answer that but how's he doing in the spring? I know he had to leave a game early.

[geezer]

Can't answer that but how's he doing in the spring? I know he had to leave a game early.

He led the team or co-led the team with 2 Spring Training wins, but I saw a possible schedule, and he might start Wednesday night against the Astros.

[Brooklyn]

As it is looking like Clemens won't pitch this year, it should just be a matter of time until Maddux passes Clemens, probalprobalby late June or early July. I'l like to see him get the 16 he needs to catch Spahn, the most of anyone who pitched after 1930

[geezer]

And we probably wont see another pitcher with 300 wins anytime soon.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

And we probably wont see another pitcher with 300 wins anytime soon.

If Randy Johnson is healthy I think he has 16 wins left in him. But it will be close. After that it will probably be around 2019-20 before we may see another 300 game winner.

[geezer]

If Randy Johnson is healthy I think he has 16 wins left in him. But it will be close. After that it will probably be around 2019-20 before we may see another 300 game winner.

And speaking of the Big Unit, he was sent to the DL to start the season, incredible. Here's a look of pitchers that have over 250 wins but might not get 300 wins.

Randy Johnson (284 Wins): he has missed almost all of last season with a back injury and only had 4 wins, and now he will start the season on the DL for the second straight year. With 16 wins shy and 44 years old on his body, age simply caught with him big time.

Mike Mussina (250 wins): Certainly he is more hittable than before, at age 39 and has won 15 games once since 2003, and if he starts the season struggling, he probably will be demoted to the bullpen, and that will be it.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

And speaking of the Big Unit, he was sent to the DL to start the season, incredible. Here's a look of pitchers that have over 250 wins but might not get 300 wins.

Randy Johnson (284 Wins): he has missed almost all of last season with a back injury and only had 4 wins, and now he will start the season on the DL for the second straight year. With 16 wins shy and 44 years old on his body, age simply caught with him big time.
Really? the DL? Johnson's shot at 300 is gone then.


Mike Mussina (250 wins): Certainly he is more hittable than before, at age 39 and has won 15 games once since 2003, and if he starts the season struggling, he probably will be demoted to the bullpen, and that will be it.
The '08 season is CRITICAL for Mussina. He needs to have a strong '08 season, say 15 wins, to have any shot at 300 wins.

[geezer]

And Greg Maddux won his first game of the season, by beating those lowly and hopeless Giants 8-4, where he retired 19 of the last 20 batters he faced after struggling a little on the bottom of the first inning. It was Maddux 348th career win and the 29th against the Giants.

[Brian McKenna]

And Greg Maddux won his first game of the season, by beating those lowly and hopeless Giants 8-4, where he retired 19 of the last 20 batters he faced after struggling a little on the bottom of the first inning. It was Maddux 348th career win and the 29th against the Giants.

Excellent Smithers, excellent!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So do you guys think Maddux has a shot at 374 wins? Third all time in wins in the modern five man staff era would simply be amazing. And it's not like he's pitching until he 48 years old either.

[geezer]

364 probably, 374 wins, 50-50 chance but i'm leaning rather to a no, but who knows.

[rockin500]

So do you guys think Maddux has a shot at 374 wins? Third all time in wins in the modern five man staff era would simply be amazing. And it's not like he's pitching until he 48 years old either.
unless he has an excellent year no. from what I have heard, he's leaning towards retirement after the season.

[bob]

I think this will be the last year we see Maddux. Providing he stays healthy i rekon he'll end up right in the middle of Galvin/Spahn/Nichols trio. If he has a good year and decides to play in 09 then he'd have a very good chance at 374.

[Brian McKenna]

Maddux has a fluid motion. There is no problem with his arm, he throws relatively few pitches compared to other starters and he is still effective. All this makes me believe there is a good chance we'll see him in 2009.

I think he'll pass Spahn and could pass 373 next year. It all depends on the SD hitters. If he got better than average run support for one of the only times in his career, I don't think it's unreasonable that he could post 18-20 wins. With only mediocre support 13-15. That's say 360 on the low side by the end of 2008. But, I think he'll edge closer to 363 by the end of this year. Who knows. Hoffman also has to step up and close out these games.

[rockin500]

Maddux has a fluid motion. There is no problem with his arm, he throws relatively few pitches compared to other starters and he is still effective. All this makes me believe there is a good chance we'll see him in 2009.

I think he'll pass Spahn and could pass 373 next year. It all depends on the SD hitters. If he got better than average run support for one of the only times in his career, I don't think it's unreasonable that he could post 18-20 wins. With only mediocre support 13-15. That's say 360 on the low side by the end of 2008. But, I think he'll edge closer to 363 by the end of this year. Who knows. Hoffman also has to step up and close out these games.

he was talking about hanging them up in spring training. i agree that health wise and effectiveness wise he could probably pitch next year too, I'm going off what he has intimated.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Here's the top-10 300 game winners by the way.

511 Cy Young
417 States Walter Johnson
373 Grover Cleveland Alexander
373 Christy Mathewson
363 Warren Spahn
361 Pud Galvin
361 Kid Nichols
354 Roger Clemens
348 Greg Maddux
342 Tim Keefe

[geezer]

7 more wins to catch the exploded Rocket.

[Brian McKenna]

7 more wins to catch the exploded Rocket.

"exploded" or "imploded"?

[geezer]

Same thing for me, its already busted.

[plask_stirlac]

He's locked in AGAIN today versus LA.

[bob]

Another good performance, 5 shutout innings. Would have been good to see him stay in longer, hope it doesnt cost them.

[rdonahue]

Maddux wins!

[bob]

Looks like he'll be facing the in-form D-backs for his chance at 350.

[geezer]

Looks like he'll be facing the in-form D-backs for his chance at 350.

I wonder where will that game will be held?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

511 Cy Young
417 States Walter Johnson
373 Grover Cleveland Alexander
373 Christy Mathewson
363 Warren Spahn
361 Pud Galvin
361 Kid Nichols
354 Roger Clemens
349 Greg Maddux
342 Tim Keefe

[geezer]

And Happy Birthday Greg Maddux!!!

The Mad Dog turns 42 today!!!!!

[rdonahue]

Happy birthday! Here's to a lot more wins!

[geezer]

And he hasn't won since beginning of May, 3 straight starts without a win (a loss and 2 no-decisions), as of today, I believe, that he wont finish the season in San Diego.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

And he hasn't won since beginning of May, 3 straight starts without a win (a loss and 2 no-decisions), as of today, I believe, that he wont finish the season in San Diego.

He would have easily won his last start against Matt Belisle if Scott Hairston didn't fuk $hit up. I didn't see the error - did he drop a fly ball or something?? Anyway, in 51/3 Maddux gave up only 1ER. Unfortunately, he couldn't get a fourth out before Adam Dunn went long.

It's really to bad the Padres offence is so bad because I really wanted to see Maddux post a 13 win season followed by another in 2009 to get close to third all-time in wins. Now, he'll definitely need to pitch at least two more to get that record.

Incidently, I saw him pitch against the Cardinals 2 starts ago and he looked great. The Cards got 2 runs early then he slammed the door in typical Maddux fashion. His fastball was hitting 87-88 consistently that game which surprised me. Was using the cut fastball more too. He should because IMO he uses the two seamer on the outside corner a little to often. Batter reach out over and go the opposite way. LOL look at me questioning the MASTER!

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Dammit another blown save for Maddux. Had a 3-2 lead after pitching 6 strong and the bullpen fu**d it up again.I doubt Maddux willget 10 wins this year. Too bad, he's stillpitcing well but the Padres suck.

[geezer]

Dammit another blown save for Maddux. Had a 3-2 lead after pitching 6 strong and the bullpen fu**d it up again.I doubt Maddux willget 10 wins this year. Too bad, he's stillpitcing well but the Padres suck.

Well if he stays with the Pads, that will be a reality, and IMO, I doubt he'll finish the year there.

And the lost the win on a balk.

[Brian McKenna]

Dammit another blown save for Maddux. Had a 3-2 lead after pitching 6 strong and the bullpen fu**d it up again.I doubt Maddux willget 10 wins this year. Too bad, he's stillpitcing well but the Padres suck.

Welcome to Fever! I may be the biggest Maddux fan though.

Fever is a great forum - a lot of insightful individuals here offering a wide range of information and experience. The veiled profanity and juvenile 'suck' may be better for the bar or the school yard. I'm sure you have more than that to offer.

[geezer]

Maddux last 2 or 3 starts have been great, sadly the offense responds when he is no longer pitching in the latter innings, I just hope he can win Tuesday night against the Dodgers.

[cbenson5]

Here is my prediction: Maddux will pitch 210 innings this year with a 3.00 ERA and win 3 games. This is getting ridiculous.

[Brian McKenna]

Another great game last night with horrible support. The skills of the greatest pitcher of all-time putting up a big year at age 42 are being wasted in SD. The offense is woefully pathetic. Now I know how the Baltimore Ravens' defense has felt through the years.

[geezer]

By July 31st, Maddux wont be a Padre, period.

[The Splendid Splinter]

By July 31st, Maddux wont be a Padre, period.

And go where? The only other place is the Dodgers. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to leave California and stay in the NL... If only the Cubs had him this year, he would have like 8 wins by now.

[SamtheBravesFan]

And go where? The only other place is the Dodgers. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to leave California and stay in the NL... If only the Cubs had him this year, he would have like 8 wins by now.

Atlanta? :cap:

Heh, just kidding. I don't think he'll be traded back there.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

What can you say other than just awesome. He was dealing against the Tigers tonight, using the cut fastball, two-seamer and change to perfection. Only 1 run & 5 hits in 7 innings on 85 pitches; all of this at 42 yrs of age. It just kills me how he gets absolutely no run support and even then there have been 3-4 occasions where he had a 1 run lead going into the 7th or 8th (2-1 tonight). Unfortunately, the bullpen blew another lead when Heath Bell gave up a homer to Placido Polanco of all people. Maddux should have 8-9 wins already but he probably will get only 7 this year.

All I want is for him to finish third on the all-time wins list but playing for the Padres IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. What an absolute pleasure to watch though. There will never be another Greg Maddux.

[geezer]

What can you say other than just awesome. He was dealing against the Tigers tonight, using the cut fastball, two-seamer and change to perfection. Only 1 run & 5 hits in 7 innings on 85 pitches; all of this at 42 yrs of age. It just kills me how he gets absolutely no run support and even then there have been 3-4 occasions where he had a 1 run lead going into the 7th or 8th (2-1 tonight). Unfortunately, the bullpen blew another lead when Heath Bell gave up a homer to Placido Polanco of all people. Maddux should have 8-9 wins already but he probably will get only 7 this year.

All I want is for him to finish third on the all-time wins list but playing for the Padres IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. What an absolute pleasure to watch though. There will never be another Greg Maddux.

And to make matters worse, the Padres scored 4 times on the 8th, and still won, MAddux should have at least 3-4 more wins by now.

[geezer]

Finally!!!!

For the first time since May 10th, Greg Maddux won a game, strangely doing that by beating the Diamondbacks 8-5 tonight in possibly Maddux's last start as a Padre. Maddux pitched into the 6th inning, allowing 4 runs, and striking out 4 batters, that put him now 10th all-time in strikeouts. For the Padres, they scored 2 runs in the 2nd and 6 more in the 3rd for getting his 4th win of the year and his 351st of his brilliant Hall of Fame career.

[bob]

He had alot of bad luck since he hit #350, with pretty terrible run support or bullpens after he had given them a real good chance at the win.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

As Greg Maddux's biggest fan, I'm sorry to say he looks done. I couldn't watch anymore of his pitching after inning 3. When he misses his spots he gets hammered and he was missing them over the plate yesterday. Absolutely served one up to Chris Young after being staked to a 2-0 lead. In fact, he's been missing lots lately. His road ERA is 6.50+. He's such a shadow of his former self it's tough to watch him pitch anymore.

I'm glad he got the win and I really hope he can get 24 more wins to have sole possesion of 3rd all-time in wins but I have a feeling he's going to retire after this year.

[Extra Innings]

Hasn't Maddux already started spreading the word throughout San Diego that this will be his final season? He hasn't formally announced it, but its gotta be close to time.

[geezer]

Well, looks like the Mad Dog will finish the season in San Diego, unless he's put on waivers.

[ReignInBlood]

Maddux, who most likely will stay the remainder of the season with San Diego, won his 5th game of the season and number 352 of his career against San Francisco today pitching 6 inning of 1 run ball.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Needed just 73 pitches through 6 innings of 1 run ball at the age of 42. Amazing.

[geezer]

Maddux has been known for having bad starts for most of his career, but at the end good finishes.

Example:

1989: Started 1-5, finished 18-7 after that season
1990: Started 4-9, finished 11-6 after that season
1992: Started 7-7, finished 13-4 after that season
1993: Started 7-8, finished 13-2 after that season
2003: Started 0-3, finished 16-8 after that season.
2004: Started 7-7, finished 9-4 after that season
2006: Started 7-11, and finished 8-3 that season.
2007: Started 7-9, and finished 7-2 that season.

And needs 3 more wins to surpass the Rocket, and 5 more for a 21st straight 10-win season.

[lyrical]

His streak of 20 consecutive double digit win seasons probably ends this year. Hopefully he'll at least pass Roger Clemens on the win list, no matter how futile the Padres are playing.

[geezer]

His streak of 20 consecutive double digit win seasons probably ends this year. Hopefully he'll at least pass Roger Clemens on the win list, no matter how futile the Padres are playing.

Maybe, still a 50-50 chance, but if it wasnt for the poor Padres offense and hurtful bullpen, he could have 8-9 wins already the least.

[wpmsd]

This year has been very frustrating for Maddux fans, as you all know. He has suffered 7 blown saves by the bullpen (by far the most in the majors) in addition to several losses where he pitched a quality start. :banghead:

I live in San Diego and when he joined the Pads last year I was ecstatic. I went to most of his home games and saw 11 in person. In those he was 7-2. That was a big thrill. This year I went to two early games, but the Padres were so woeful, that I couldn't bear going just to see them find another way to lose. As bad as the offense has been, the bullpen has really let him down this year. One of the early games I saw was against the Giants and he pitched well, but Hoffman gave up a HR to Molina in the 9th to blow the save.

I think he is actually pitching better than last year. Take away his awful start in AZ, where the conditions don't do him any favors (though he would never make excuses) and the one in CO where he gave up 8 runs (I think) and his ERA is 3.35. Not bad for an old guy who's lost some of what little zip he had on his fastball.

Since he's still turning in good performances, and the Padres' young players seem to be playing well, I think there's a good chance ol' Greg will get 3 more wins. Unfortunately, he'll have to pitch in both AZ and CO this month and who knows what that'll do for him. I really, REALLY want him to pass Clemens.

I just recently found this site and read some early posts about how people rank Clemens ahead of Maddux. These were from a couple of years ago. Haven't had time to read newer posts to see what peoples' opinions are now, post-steroids revelations. But I'd like to see Greg emerge as the winningest pitcher from this era. He's a class act.

[wpmsd]

Quoted from GEEZER:
As Greg Maddux's biggest fan, I'm sorry to say he looks done. I couldn't watch anymore of his pitching after inning 3. When he misses his spots he gets hammered and he was missing them over the plate yesterday. Absolutely served one up to Chris Young after being staked to a 2-0 lead. In fact, he's been missing lots lately. His road ERA is 6.50+. He's such a shadow of his former self it's tough to watch him pitch anymore.

I'm glad he got the win and I really hope he can get 24 more wins to have sole possesion of 3rd all-time in wins but I have a feeling he's going to retire after this year.--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geezer, I don't agree with you. No question he is no longer the dominant pitcher he was in the 90s. And he doesn't even have the same flashes of brilliance he exhibited even 4-5 years ago. But he is still above average and has some very good days. Citing his road ERA is deceiving because he had two horrible starts in ballparks that are difficult (AZ and CO.) Coors is tough for everyone and Maddux has a particularly tough time in Arizona. I have never once heard him offer any excuses or even acknowledge that he doesn't pitch well there, but clearly, something in the air there affects his movement.

Plus, remember he is 42. Pretty damn good for 42. The example of Clemens was a mirage, so erase his performance from your memory. All in all, Greg is still doing reasonably well and deserves his starts. It's not as if he is getting charity in order to be out there. Having said that, I wouldn't mind if he retired after this year, so he doesn't dip too far down in performance. I once wanted to see him get 373 wins or at least 363 to tie Spahn, but now I just hope he at least passes Clemens. So enjoy him while you can!

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Welcome aboard,

As you can tell by the nick, I LOVE Greg Maddux. Don't know why this was always the case. I think it's the way he pitched that so fascinated me. He achieved because he is a pitcher in the truest sense. He couldn't dominate hitters the way Gibson, Seaver or Clemens could. He was Piccaso on the mound.

I'm not sure either whether people understand he had probably the most dominant 7-year peak of any pitcher all-time. In six of those years, he had an ERA of 2.36 or less, giving up 66HR combined in hitter-friendly ballparks. In 1995, he has 0.81WHIP and won 4 consecutive Cy Youngs.

Anyway, his credentials speak for themselves. All I know is that I try and watch everyone of his games because he's nearing the end. Even now at 42, Maddux is still and effective pitcher and in all reality should have 9 or 10 wins this year.

There have been many great pitchers, but what sets Maddux apart IMO is he is by far, the most consistent pitcher of all time hands down. And that counts for alot.

[geezer]

Quoted from GEEZER:
As Greg Maddux's biggest fan, I'm sorry to say he looks done. I couldn't watch anymore of his pitching after inning 3. When he misses his spots he gets hammered and he was missing them over the plate yesterday. Absolutely served one up to Chris Young after being staked to a 2-0 lead. In fact, he's been missing lots lately. His road ERA is 6.50+. He's such a shadow of his former self it's tough to watch him pitch anymore.

I'm glad he got the win and I really hope he can get 24 more wins to have sole possesion of 3rd all-time in wins but I have a feeling he's going to retire after this year.--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geezer, I don't agree with you. No question he is no longer the dominant pitcher he was in the 90s. And he doesn't even have the same flashes of brilliance he exhibited even 4-5 years ago. But he is still above average and has some very good days. Citing his road ERA is deceiving because he had two horrible starts in ballparks that are difficult (AZ and CO.) Coors is tough for everyone and Maddux has a particularly tough time in Arizona. I have never once heard him offer any excuses or even acknowledge that he doesn't pitch well there, but clearly, something in the air there affects his movement.

Plus, remember he is 42. Pretty damn good for 42. The example of Clemens was a mirage, so erase his performance from your memory. All in all, Greg is still doing reasonably well and deserves his starts. It's not as if he is getting charity in order to be out there. Having said that, I wouldn't mind if he retired after this year, so he doesn't dip too far down in performance. I once wanted to see him get 373 wins or at least 363 to tie Spahn, but now I just hope he at least passes Clemens. So enjoy him while you can!

wpmsd, as I recall, I didnt wrote this, I never said that Maddux is done, that was Greg Maddux's biggest fan who wrote it.

Speaking of Maddux's quest for passing Clemens on the all-time wins list, IMO if he eclipses that mark, people will get more credit that he has now, and will be more admired and revered in this era.

[wpmsd]

wpmsd, as I recall, I didnt wrote this, I never said that Maddux is done, that was Greg Maddux's biggest fan who wrote it.




Sorry about that! I should try using the quote feature, then I don't have to remember who wrote what.

[wpmsd]

I don't know how everyone became a Maddux fan, but I'll tell you my story. In early 1995, the players were still on strike at the beginning of the season and I couldn't have cared less. I had been a big baseball fan as a kid in the late 60s and 70s, but then gradually became more of a football fan, while casually following baseball. I thought, if the greedy players and greedier owners can't agree on how to split up the golden goose, then they deserve each other. A friend and I joked about going out for tryouts if they tried to field replacement player teams. It never came down to that as they settled and began the season in late April. I went back to not paying too much attention to baseball.

In August my Sports Illustrated arrived with a picture on the cover of Greg Maddux and a headline that read "The Greatest Pitcher You'll Ever See." Well, that caught my attention. At the time his name vaguely rang a bell, but I didn't know much about him. So I opened the issue and began to read....

The article began something like, "You never got to see Van Gogh paint. But every 5th day you get to see Greg Maddux pitch." He was at his peak then and it went on and on about how outstanding he was. I was shocked to learn that he was about to win his 4th consecutive CY. And I had never heard of him! Talk about low key. You can bet Barry Bonds made sure everyone knew when he won his first MVP.

One of the reasons I had gradually lost interest in baseball was that pitchers didn't seem to be consistently good anymore. One year a Frank Viola was setting the world on fire. The next he was sub-.500. So Maddux's sustained excellence caught my interest and I began following him. No, I'm not old enough to have seen Van Gogh paint, so I didn't want to miss a new master.

I suppose late 1995 was a good time to jump on the Maddux bandwagon as he did win his 4th CY and then they won the world series. Because they showed most Braves games on TBS, I would always record or watch whenever he pitched. I couldn't see him pitch when he made it to San Diego later that year because I came down with the flu the day before, but I would always tried to see him pitch whenever he was in town- the old Van Gogh thing coming up in my mind. He never pitched particularly well in the games I saw in person, until last year when he was on the Padres and went 7-2 in the games I saw at Petco.

In addition to his sustained excellence in pitching, I admire the way he acts and carries himself. In this day and age of showboating athletes, he never toots his own horn. If anything, he goes to the opposite extreme of downplaying his success and crediting good fortune or his teammates. Some of the San Diego writers have discovered that for themselves (better late than never) and like to point it out when it happens. One of my favorite Maddux lines is when interviewers ask Maddux about his reputation for being one of the most cerebral players ever. His stock reply is that if you locate your fastball and change speeds, it's amazing how smart that makes you. Some truth to that I imagine, but we all know he has an encyclopedic recall of batters and primo observation powers.

He also is very even keel. Maybe that helps him be a good golfer. But when things go well, he doesn't get carried away. When things go badly, he doesn't get all excited either. I remember in 2000 when he had a 30+ scoreless innings streak. Reporters kept pressing him for details on what he was doing differently. Rather than strut about, he kept saying that the streak was more luck than anything else. "They hit some hard shots right at fielders", or "I got away with some mistakes." He never said anything resembling, "Oh yeah, I'm goooood." And during periods when he gets hit hard, he also plays it down. One of the few times I can remember him getting a little annoyed was in a start against I think Minnesota in the early 2000s. The scored 5 runs in the first, and although he shut them down after that, the Braves lost the game. Afterwards, the reporters kept saying that they noticed that most of the Twins' hitters in the first inning jumped on and hit his first pitch. They surmised that it was a good strategy since Maddux generally throws strikes and made it sound like that was a surefire way to get to Maddux- hit the first pitch. Greg tried to explain that it wasn't the reason. He had just missed on some pitches and they hit them. It was coincidence they were the first pitches of the at bats. He tried to explain that if he knows the batter is definitely going to swing at the first pitch, he would adjust accordingly. But they never got it and I could tell Maddux was getting a little frustrated with them and their "discovery" of how to succeed against him.

One additional thing I like about him is his concentration and inability to get distracted. Especially now near the end of his career, he often gets asked about this or that milestone. But he never waivers when he says, win or lose, his sole focus is on the next start and getting ready for whoever lies in wait. He'll worry about his place in history after it's all over.

Most people in this thread sound like they expect him to retire this year. If I had to bet, I'd guess this is his last one too, but you never know. He seems to really enjoy playing and savors every last minute. Maybe one more year is in the cards. He said at the end of last year that 2007 was the most enjoyable year he has had in the Bigs. And he keeps saying this year that he is grateful to still be able to pitch competitively and the fact the Pads are lousy doesn't make it a bad year. However, he did say at the beginning of the year, that at this point, he felt he should be going to his son's games instead of the other way around. Who knows?

By the way, for the best Maddux fix, try the San Diego newspaper site. Search for Union Tribune San Diego and bookmark the Padres page. They always have some good writing on him.

[geezer]

Make it 3 straight for the Mad Dog, as he beat today the Colorado Rockies 8-3 for his 6th win of the season, and 353th of his brilliant career. Maddux went 6+ innings, allowing 2 runs, and striking out 4 in the game. Maddux is one win away of tying with Roger Clemens' 354 career wins this Friday vs. the Phillies, and 2 away of taking sole possesion of 8th all-time in career wins. He also has 132 wins this decade, only 3 shy of Tim Hudson for most since 2000, and since Hudson is out for very long time, he may eclipse it but he is also battling Randy Johnson for that category.

Also, with today's win, surpassed Bobby Matthews (yes, Bobby Matthews) for sole possession of 14th all-time in innings pitched, 11 more innings and surpasses Bret Blyleven in 13th all-time. He needs only 40 innings to become only the 13th pitcher all-time with 5,000 innings pitched.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Yeah baby Maddux won three straight! He's finally getting some decent run support and thats the difference. I would love to see the Mad Dog get to 3rd all-time in win at 376, but passing Clemens is almost as nice. Then he would have the most wins of this generation - and the last 3 for that matter.

All this without any performance enhancers too.

[geezer]

Yeah baby Maddux won three straight! He's finally getting some decent run support and thats the difference. I would love to see the Mad Dog get to 3rd all-time in win at 376, but passing Clemens is almost as nice. Then he would have the most wins of this generation - and the last 3 for that matter.

All this without any performance enhancers too.

I doubt that he will get 376, but 360 it might be a possibility.

[STLCards2]

He needs only 40 innings to become only the 13th pitcher all-time with 5,000 innings pitched.

This is by far the most underrated of Maddux' accomplishments. 5,000 IP in today's game is incredible - equal to about 5,500 IP in the 60's and 70's.

[geezer]

This is by far the most underrated of Maddux' accomplishments. 5,000 IP in today's game is incredible - equal to about 5,500 IP in the 60's and 70's.

He already surpassed Roger Clemens by 40+ innings already.

[Solrac]

I say MLB change the Cy Young Award to the Greg Maddux Award.

[Gmoney23]

I say MLB change the Cy Young Award to the Greg Maddux Award.

He has won the award more then Cy anyways... :dance

[sopclod]

I say MLB change the Cy Young Award to the Greg Maddux Award.

There was a lot of talk about that in '96 after he won his fourth in a row. I don't think it was serious, but it seemed reasonable at the time.

[Captain Cold Nose]

There was a lot of talk about that in '96 after he won his fourth in a row. I don't think it was serious, but it seemed reasonable at the time.

I'm not so sure about a lot, but it was mentioned, mostly by those in awe of what Maddux was doing and not as something that was going to happen.

Of course, I can't recall too many who weren't awed by Maddux at the time.

[rockin500]

well, maddux is on the dodgers now per ESPN (on monday night baseball)

[lyrical]

Ties Clemens with 354...

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Congratulations to Greg Maddux for tying Roger Clemens as the greatest winner of this era. Quite an accomplishment and without the aide of illegal substances I might add. I saw the game on the baseball package; he gave up a run on three straight hits in the 1st inning but then set down 14 straight before back to back doubles in the fifth. When he's on the corners he still schools hitters. Just a pleasure to watch... Next win he's over the top of Clemens into 7th all-time in wins... If he pitches next year, he would probably end up 4th all time in wins.

[geezer]

Congrats to the Mad Dog for his win tonight, his 7th of the season, and his 354th of his career, to tie with Roger Clemens for 8th all-time in wins, where besides allowing a run in the first inning, the Dodgers scored 4 runs in the first 3 innings and Maddux beat his former team for his 1st win in his second stint with the Dodgers.

[csh19792001]

Congrats to the Mad Dog for his win tonight, his 7th of the season, and his 354th of his career, to tie with Roger Clemens for 8th all-time in wins, where besides allowing a run in the first inning, the Dodgers scored 4 runs in the first 3 innings and Maddux beat his former team for his 1st win in his second stint with the Dodgers.

What's the likelihood of Maddux passing Spahn?

[Zagi-CRO]

What's the likelihood of Maddux passing Spahn?

3. Pete Alexander+ 373 R
Christy Mathewson+ 373 R
5. Pud Galvin+ 364 R
6. Warren Spahn+* 363 L
7. Kid Nichols+ 361 R
8. Roger Clemens 354 R
9. Greg Maddux (42) 354
.......
Maddux needs 20 wins for surpassing Pete Alexander and achieving third place!? Could he do it?

[Los Bravos]

to tie with Roger Clemens for 8th all-time in wins I'm happy, but Greg's next win will make me even happier.

[BlueBlood]

Maddux's ERA+ is a 94 this season, so if he wants a job, some weaker team or team in need of a fifth starter (like the Dodgers) could pick him up for 2009. He would still need two excellent seasons of nearly ten wins a piece to top Alexander. Really, if he could pull another four or five out of the hat before the end of this season, then he'd only need 15 in two more seasons which isn't unreasonable.

[Brian McKenna]

Maddux is in my estimation the greatest pitcher the game has yet seen - regardless if Spahn has more wins post WWII and better than any deadball pitcher.

His win-loss record is sad this year, I agree. But that rests largely with the pathetic San Diego offense.

At 42 he is still better than the previous ascribed 'fifth starter on a weak team.' That was probably someone's attempt at a joke so I'll take it in stride.

There is no doubt in my mind that he's still effective. If he's determined to do so, he'll pass Spahn in wins no problem. It's not needed though, he sits atop my list.

[STLCards2]

Maddux's ERA+ is a 94 this season, so if he wants a job, some weaker team or team in need of a fifth starter (like the Dodgers) could pick him up for 2009. He would still need two excellent seasons of nearly ten wins a piece to top Alexander. Really, if he could pull another four or five out of the hat before the end of this season, then he'd only need 15 in two more seasons which isn't unreasonable.

A 94 ERA+ pitcher who will get 180+ innings is closer to a 3 or 4 pitcher on most teams than a 5.

[STLCards2]

3. Pete Alexander+ 373 R
Christy Mathewson+ 373 R
5. Pud Galvin+ 364 R
6. Warren Spahn+* 363 L
7. Kid Nichols+ 361 R
8. Roger Clemens 354 R
9. Greg Maddux (42) 354
.......
Maddux needs 20 wins for surpassing Pete Alexander and achieving third place!? Could he do it?

Very unlikely. About 2 more wins this year is likely, leaving him an 18 win gap next year. Won't happen- even if he foes on a good offensive team. He should pass Galvin and end with around 367 wins. Still, not too shabby.

[csh19792001]

Very unlikely. About 2 more wins this year is likely, leaving him an 18 win gap next year. Won't happen- even if he foes on a good offensive team.

I hope you're wrong; in terms of getting 20 more wins, remember Greg has at least a few things working strongly in his favor.

-He's the consummate efficiency artist. Of all MLB pitchers this year with 160 or more IP, he's dead last (60th) in P/PA (3.23). This is largely because in the last three years he's been third, second, and first among all pitchers in walks/IP.

Great article on his mastery of the strike zone (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2007-08-31-3976024296_x.htm)

-He's 55th out of 59 pitchers MLB with 160 IP in run support this year, and he's still won 7 games as roughly an average pitcher. If he'd had an average offense- or a strong one- behind him, he'd have several more wins. He had poor run support in 06 and 07 as well.

-So, unlike Randy Johnson, he's very efficient and puts little strain on his arm (throwing mid 80's, tops). Randy has already won 14 games since he was Greg's age, and he was out nearly all of last year!!

The point is that Greg's almost like a knuckleballer in terms of exertion- true, he exerts more- but he also doesn't have all the walks and the high pitch counts to go with the knuckler.

Tommy John won 31 games after age 42- why shouldn't Maddux be able to win 20 and pass Matty and Ole Pete?

9/17/07
In an interview with the San Diego Union-Tribune, Greg Maddux made it clear that he has no immediate intentions of calling it quits:

Q: I guess the natural question is always, how much longer?

A: "I can't say. I am still having fun. I'm having more fun this season. As long as I'm having this much fun, why not? It's been good for the family. And I still like pitching, I like what I am doing."


When Maddux was traded to LA this year, I saw an interview in which he stated "this is a win/win for me". I haven't heard or read anything about his impending retirement.

[BlueBlood]

Well, he's obviously excited about the Dodgers making the playoffs and giving him a new chance to flex his stuff. He could be ace in a relief role behind the three starters (Billingsley, Lowe & Kuroda).

The Mad Dog is only 9 2/3 innings away from passing the 5000 IP mark. Only 12 other pitchers have managed this. Only 8 began their careers in 1900 or later.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/IP_career.shtml

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

It doesn't matter where he goes this year, his team doesnt score any runs for him. I watched Maddux pitch and he was completely incredible this start against Colorado. At Coors field, he was making it look like child's play, needing only 68 pitches to get through 7 innings. Unfortunately, LA couldnt must even 1 run on his behalf. Its quite pathetic to watch really.

When Maddux has his control like he did today, its still amazing what he can do. I've watched all but 4 starts of his this year, and today he had the best control he's had all year. I saw maybe 2 pitches that were center mistakes. Only had 20 BALLS in 7 innings incredible.

[priceyeah]

I actually churns my stomach when I see Maddux pitch well and get 0 run support. He is on a good scoring team in the Dodgers or so it seems. Check out the game log this month for the Dodgers. September 1st they scored 5 runs and Maddux got the win. Run totals per game since:

8 won
6 won
7 won
7 won
5 won
0 lost
6 won
7 won
7 won
5 won
0 lost

Only twice in in the last 11 games have they scored less than 5 runs. Guess what, both times it was when Maddux started. The first shutout Maddux might not have deserved a win (he gave up 4 runs), but had they scored 5 like every other game he may have gotten at least a no-decision. Today's game was just sad. How does a team score 5 or more runs each game for a couple weeks in row except in 2 games where they get completely shutout. Just 1 run some time in the first 9 innings today would have been nice. Incidently, it wasn't as if Maddux's opponents those 2 starts were Cy Young candidates, Cha Seung Baek 5.36 ERA coming into the game & Aaron Cook 4.16 ERA coming into today's game. It just makes no sense. With a little luck Maddux would be in double digits for wins this year.

[BlueBlood]

Cook has had the Dodgers' number all season so that wasn't surprising. The Dodgers also didn't have Ethier in the lineup, a guy who's been hitting like .550 during this month. That's a big hole that could've produced about two runs and started some more rallies.

"I've gotten a lot of runs here in my career," he said, having pitched in the pre-humidor days. "I've spit out some hooks here, too. Got my butt kicked. It actually isn't that bad a place to pitch, if you keep the ball out of the air.

I love how the last sentence doesn't even have anything to do with Colorado. It's really just Maddux's pitching philosophy in general. :rofl:


EDIT: OOH! Looks like his next start could be a double milestone. 1 win will put him atop Clemens on the all time list while 2 2/3 innings will get him to 5000 IP.

[STLCards2]

It doesn't matter where he goes this year, his team doesnt score any runs for him. I watched Maddux pitch and he was completely incredible this start against Colorado. At Coors field, he was making it look like child's play, needing only 68 pitches to get through 7 innings. Unfortunately, LA couldnt must even 1 run on his behalf. Its quite pathetic to watch really.

When Maddux has his control like he did today, its still amazing what he can do. I've watched all but 4 starts of his this year, and today he had the best control he's had all year. I saw maybe 2 pitches that were center mistakes. Only had 20 BALLS in 7 innings incredible.

You know, he got significantly less run support than his Braves counterparts as well (namely Smoltz and Glavine). Of course he gave up Javy's bat, and wasn't quite the hitter Glavine ans Smoltz were, but I wonder if their is something to it all? Probably just coincience.

[Brian McKenna]

You know, he got significantly less run support than his Braves counterparts as well (namely Smoltz and Glavine). Of course he gave up Javy's bat, and wasn't quite the hitter Glavine ans Smoltz were, but I wonder if their is something to it all? Probably just coincience.

I would venture to guess that career-wise he has gotten the worst support relative to the league of any of the great pitchers.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Its not unusual for great pitchers to get ****** run support. Hitters take 'mental holidays' when they know 3 runs will probably be all it takes to win the game. They tend to play down to the level of support the need. So it doesn't surprise me that Maddux has probably gotten well below average run support (career-wise). The dissapointing thing is that he has a legitimate shot at finishing 3rd all time in wins if he pitches 2 more seasons. this is not inconceivable since guys like Phil Niekro and Warren Spahn pitched into their late 40's. Heck, Randy Johnson and Jamie Moyer and still going and they're 44 and 45 years old respectively.

I hope his teamates play with a little more urgency going forward and recognize history is at stake.

[priceyeah]

Well what do you know! Maddux isn't pitching and the Dodgers have scored 5 freaking runs through 4 innings. What a bunch of crap. 5 or more runs in 13 of of the last 15 games. Shutout in the other 2 for Maddux!

[lyrical]

Its not unusual for great pitchers to get ****** run support. Hitters take 'mental holidays' when they know 3 runs will probably be all it takes to win the game. They tend to play down to the level of support the need. So it doesn't surprise me that Maddux has probably gotten well below average run support (career-wise). The dissapointing thing is that he has a legitimate shot at finishing 3rd all time in wins if he pitches 2 more seasons. this is not inconceivable since guys like Phil Niekro and Warren Spahn pitched their late 40's. Heck, Randy Johnson and Jamie Moyer and still going and they're 44 and 45 years old respectively.

I hope his teamates play with a little more urgency going forward and recognize history is at stake.
Speaking of awful support, Randy Johnson has given up 3 runs or less in 5 of his last 6 outings and came away with zero victories in those six starts, with the bullpen blowing the lead behind him in three occasions. I'm not sure "history is at stake" really helps teammates do their jobs better, unfortunately.

Anyway, back to Maddux. Gunning for 5000 IP tonight and opposed by 9-16 Barry Zito, wonder if the Dodgers will score any runs for a change?

[BlueBlood]

Anyway, back to Maddux. Gunning for 5000 IP tonight and opposed by 9-16 Barry Zito, wonder if the Dodgers will score any runs for a change?

He's also gunning to pass Clemens on the win list since they're tied right now. This is a big night. Passing 5000IP and the man with the PED controversy should pretty much cement him in everyone's minds as the best pitcher of the modern era (post-1950).

[geezer]

As of the 5th inning, the Giants are crushing Maddux 7-0.

[lyrical]

Dodgers beat the Giants 2-1. Maddux throws 47 pitches, 38 strikes in 6 innings to get the win. His efficiency when he's on is always completely mindboggling to me. He's a pitching machine.

Congrats to the Mad Dog on finally getting win 355 to pass Clemens.

[csh19792001]

As of the 5th inning, the Giants are crushing Maddux 7-0.

This is a historic moment- Maddux now passes Clemens with his 355th win. Greg was back to his vintage ways- 2 hits in 6 innings, with an incredibly economical 47 pitches (38 were strikes)!!!!

Name Wins Rank
Cy Young 511 1
Walter Johnson 417 2
Grover Alexander 373 3
Christy Mathewson 373 4
Warren Spahn 363 5
Pud Galvin 361 6
Kid Nichols 361 7
Greg Maddux 355 8

More importantly, among modern pitchers, he's #2 all time in wins. Everybody else on this list besides Spahn was playing an (almost) completely different game.

[Los Bravos]

The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

[SamtheBravesFan]

The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

Well said, my friend, well said. :D

[geezer]

And finished the season as the only pitcher in Major League history with 300+ wins, 3,000+ strikeouts and less than 1,000 walks (he has 999).

[Brian McKenna]

Congrats to the Mad Dog on finally getting win 355 to pass Clemens.

All is right with the world today.

Now for some postseason heroics - that is if they'd score some runs for him.

[bob]

If SDP and LAD hadnt been determined to force him to pitch complete game shutouts to get a win for most of the season he probably would have been around 360 wins by now. He's had a very good season for his age.
Compared to other 42 year old pitchers throughout history:
~ The second best BB/9IP ever for a 42 year old (And is in fact 3rd in the majors this year, leading the NL!)
~ 8th highest IP total
~ 3rd highest games started
~ 6th best WHIP
~ 11th highest SO total.

His poor win-loss record may make it difficult for him to play all next season, but he's been a very reliable and consistent pitcher and im sure there's quite a few teams that wouldn't mind him on the mound (not even mentioning his informal coaching of younger pitchers and generally good leadership).

[BlueBlood]

Finished the season with a 95 ERA+, no reason he shouldn't be back next year.

2007: 98 ERA+ in 198 IP, 104 Ks, 1.242 WHIP

2008: 95 ERA+ in 194 IP, 98 Ks, 1.206 WHIP

Could definitely make the argument that this season wasn't much of a downgrade from last year. The key difference between this and last season was the fact that he gave up the long ball 50% more (14 to 21), hence the higher ERA. He actually put less runners on base this season, but those seven extra home runs really hurt him.